IO Changed Hitman: Absolution Following Nun Controversy

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Drauger:
The "impractical costume" thingie again, its a game ok?, i can't understand how people can accept the whole im an assasin with clone brothers and can kill waves enemies, but can't accept the fact that there are some some enemies wearing "impractical costumes".

DAMN SKIPPY!

If the game is stylised, that's fine, I can accept outlandish costumes, but when it's a game pushing for grimm hyper reality, certain things need to be practical.

But seriously, folks. It wasn't the violence or the sexism that got Hitman fans' panties in a bunch, it was the dumbness.

The "What's the point of wearing a disguise if you're just gonna use a rocket launcher?", "Why wear a disguise just to take it off as soon as you get there?", "Why bring a whole crew if you're just gonna use a rocket launcher?", "Is he putting coins on their eyes becasue they think that all Hitman fans are Boondock Saints fans?", "Seriously, none of them can get a shot off on this guy while he's dancing around? They're all armed, right?", "Is there any fucking stealth in this stealth game, please?", dumbness.

I personally thought the trailer was awesome...and I will be looking forward to purchasing absolution.

The trailer really bugged me, not because of the scantily clad women nonsense, but because it made no god damned sense. What the hell were nuns doing walking down a lone street to that hotel, just silly

I'm getting really, really tired of the political correctness pervading games journalism as of late. Really sick and tired of it.

People need to grow up.

Not everything is "misogynist". If the PC-brigade had their way, then video games would turn into all American sitcoms. The ones where every male is a blabbering, useless, cowardly idiot who is lucky to have found the matriarchal beautiful genius he currently lives with. Equality =/= Misandry ?

To be fair, gaming is the only medium outside of literature that portrays realistic characters, both male and female. It doesn't mean every game needs to be politically correct however.

Rellik San:

Drauger:
The "impractical costume" thingie again, its a game ok?, i can't understand how people can accept the whole im an assasin with clone brothers and can kill waves enemies, but can't accept the fact that there are some some enemies wearing "impractical costumes".

DAMN SKIPPY!

If the game is stylised, that's fine, I can accept outlandish costumes, but when it's a game pushing for grimm hyper reality, certain things need to be practical.

Well if you want the game to be practical lets add all the things an assasin would need to be like 47 in the end we end up wiht splinter cell like character:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57886/splintercell/images/f/f6/Splinter_Cells.jpg

Why do they dont add all that stuff?, well because fictional world were a bald clone can pull out all that stuff without wearing all those pockets and stuff on..... like the nuns pull out the rocket launcher and other weapons out of god knows where

IndomitableSam:

Legion:
I wonder if their logic behind making it was:

Developer 1: "Okay, so we want to get lot's of young adult males buying this, so what do they like?"
Developer 2:"Women in skimpy costumes!"
Developer 3: "People getting beaten up!"
Developer 1: "Okay guys, I have an idea..."

I wouldn't even go that far.

Developers: "Boobs, guns, and fetish wear! Let's DO THIS!" ... Release of trailer ... "Wait... not all gamers are teenage boys with warped sexual views on women? Really? ... Huh."

Wasnt there a whole level in Hitman: Blood Money about two night clubs (heaven and hell) that featured scantily clad women as well?

How did The Escapist resist the urge to make the headline "IO tweaks lingerie-clad fetish nuns"?

Irridium:
Wait, so is he saying the characters in the game didn't originally have context before this trailer?

Because what I get from this is that in the game the nuns would have been nothing but scantily clad women you beat up/killed, and now there's going to be a reason to do this.

Does this sound a bit odd to anyone else, or am I just reading this wrong? Why the fuck didn't they give it all context in the first damn place?!

They didn't in blood money either. You had assassins that tried to sleep with you, if you accepted, they'd kill you while your guard was down. Its not exactly a new trick for them.

I first read the article as "IO Changed absolutely nothing following Nun controversy". You know, I think I would have preferred that. A company sticking by its guns - its stupid, stupid guns - is probably better than homogenized for-the-masses grey sludge. And isn't that Absolution in a nutshell.

Kopikatsu:
I'm rather surprised at all the backlash games have been getting lately as well. Especially where women are involved. New feminist kick? I mean, really. Like that thing with Lara Croft- FEAR 2's protagonist was actually raped, but there was nary a head turned about that. Guess it's not really rape if it happens to a man, yeah?

I'm pretty sure that when Pointman was raped, it wasn't described as a means of "building his character" or developing him into a stronger person. Part of the backlash is to do with people noticing how many stories feature women getting raped, for the purpose of defining how/why they are a strong female protagonist. Pointman is an uncommon male exception in a videogame, and it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong - he just is.

As for people in fetish outfits being the subject of violence...it ain't just women. Men get it, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YLWIahcseI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gpAr5d_ykE

The old "what about the menz", argument? Comedy male gimps are not really same issue. It isn't as if they are being sexualised for female gamers, is it? They are there to provide comic relief and "urgh, that's disgusting" cringe humour for (presumably) male (presumably) hetrosexual gamers. Compare that to Bad Girl, who is quite clearly meant to be titillating, like all the women in NMH.

So basically they are just going to drive home the point that the nuns were ASSASSINS. Just like Hitman. That's the real outrage, people were angry because they just saw sexism instead of actually suspending their disbelief and figuring out that the nuns were assassins in the first place.

nexus:
I'm getting really, really tired of the political correctness pervading games journalism as of late. Really sick and tired of it.

People need to grow up.

Not everything is "misogynist". If the PC-brigade had their way, then video games would turn into all American sitcoms. The ones where every male is a blabbering, useless, cowardly idiot who is lucky to have found the matriarchal beautiful genius he currently lives with. Equality =/= Misandry ?

To be fair, gaming is the only medium outside of literature that portrays realistic characters, both male and female. It doesn't mean every game needs to be politically correct however.

Oh my, you're going to be popular on here.

Actually, the way things are going on the escapist, I'm quite worried you genuinely might be.

maninahat:

Kopikatsu:
I'm rather surprised at all the backlash games have been getting lately as well. Especially where women are involved. New feminist kick? I mean, really. Like that thing with Lara Croft- FEAR 2's protagonist was actually raped, but there was nary a head turned about that. Guess it's not really rape if it happens to a man, yeah?

I'm pretty sure that when Pointman was raped, it wasn't described as a means of "building his character" or developing him into a stronger person. Part of the backlash is to do with people noticing how many stories feature women getting raped, for the purpose of defining how/why they are a strong female protagonist. Pointman is an uncommon male exception in a videogame, and it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong - he just is.

It wasn't to build his character, throughout the game he had been built up. You find files saying how important he is. You see what happens to his team who aren't as strong as he is. At the end when he gets raped, its all taken away from him. He loses his mind. It breaks him down completely.

Funny that, they took away Lara's strength after she was built up to, and it wasn't even graphic rape.

maninahat:

Kopikatsu:
I'm rather surprised at all the backlash games have been getting lately as well. Especially where women are involved. New feminist kick? I mean, really. Like that thing with Lara Croft- FEAR 2's protagonist was actually raped, but there was nary a head turned about that. Guess it's not really rape if it happens to a man, yeah?

I'm pretty sure that when Pointman was raped, it wasn't described as a means of "building his character" or developing him into a stronger person. Part of the backlash is to do with people noticing how many stories feature women getting raped, for the purpose of defining how/why they are a strong female protagonist. Pointman is an uncommon male exception in a videogame, and it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong - he just is.

...??? Pointman is Alma's oldest son. Beckett is the one who gets raped, and then he's murdered by Pointman and Fettel in F3AR.

It didn't build his character, no, it broke him. When you see Beckett in F3AR, he's really messed up.

dogstile:

maninahat:

Kopikatsu:
I'm rather surprised at all the backlash games have been getting lately as well. Especially where women are involved. New feminist kick? I mean, really. Like that thing with Lara Croft- FEAR 2's protagonist was actually raped, but there was nary a head turned about that. Guess it's not really rape if it happens to a man, yeah?

I'm pretty sure that when Pointman was raped, it wasn't described as a means of "building his character" or developing him into a stronger person. Part of the backlash is to do with people noticing how many stories feature women getting raped, for the purpose of defining how/why they are a strong female protagonist. Pointman is an uncommon male exception in a videogame, and it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong - he just is.

It wasn't to build his character, throughout the game he had been built up. You find files saying how important he is. You see what happens to his team who aren't as strong as he is. At the end when he gets raped, its all taken away from him. He loses his mind. It breaks him down completely.

Funny that, they took away Lara's strength after she was built up to, and it wasn't even graphic rape.

Lara pissed people off because this new game is an origin story, and the HR guy made the mistake of implying that Lara's tough, individualist demeanor stemmed from an attempted rape. That follows on from what I was just saying about how "tough" women in stories tend to have been raped in the past and "that's why they're tough". That kind of thing never happens to explain why a man is tough.

Plus there was that remark about how rape was used to "make us care for her". He really did put his foot in it.

Kopikatsu:

maninahat:

Kopikatsu:
I'm rather surprised at all the backlash games have been getting lately as well. Especially where women are involved. New feminist kick? I mean, really. Like that thing with Lara Croft- FEAR 2's protagonist was actually raped, but there was nary a head turned about that. Guess it's not really rape if it happens to a man, yeah?

I'm pretty sure that when Pointman was raped, it wasn't described as a means of "building his character" or developing him into a stronger person. Part of the backlash is to do with people noticing how many stories feature women getting raped, for the purpose of defining how/why they are a strong female protagonist. Pointman is an uncommon male exception in a videogame, and it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong - he just is.

...??? Pointman is Alma's oldest son. Beckett is the one who gets raped, and then he's murdered by Pointman and Fettel in F3AR.

It didn't build his character, no, it broke him. When you see Beckett in F3AR, he's really messed up.

Can you people not read or something? I said "it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong". That was the point I was making: male rape in serious stories isn't treated as a character building exersize. For women, it seems you need to suffer an attempted rape before you can become tough.

I did however confuse Beckett for Pointman. Same difference.

This is going to be quite interesting methinks; if they have actually changed that level so it's an interesting, well developed level rather than adolescent pandering to sell a game (as opposed to striving to make it an actually -better- game) then it'll show a -vast- step in the right direction. Hell, it wouldn't be hard to just make some small changes and start moving towards a less stupid approach to games. Unfortunately, I'm somewhat expecting something in the nature of this sort of thing to happen. Oh well. Now we can only wait and see what hand we are dealt.

maninahat:

dogstile:

maninahat:

I'm pretty sure that when Pointman was raped, it wasn't described as a means of "building his character" or developing him into a stronger person. Part of the backlash is to do with people noticing how many stories feature women getting raped, for the purpose of defining how/why they are a strong female protagonist. Pointman is an uncommon male exception in a videogame, and it isn't in there to provide a reason for why he is strong - he just is.

It wasn't to build his character, throughout the game he had been built up. You find files saying how important he is. You see what happens to his team who aren't as strong as he is. At the end when he gets raped, its all taken away from him. He loses his mind. It breaks him down completely.

Funny that, they took away Lara's strength after she was built up to, and it wasn't even graphic rape.

Lara pissed people off because this new game is an origin story, and the HR guy made the mistake of implying that Lara's tough, individualist demeanor stemmed from an attempted rape. That follows on from what I was just saying about how "tough" women in stories tend to have been raped in the past and "that's why they're tough". That kind of thing never happens to explain why a man is tough.

Plus there was that remark about how rape was used to "make us care for her". He really did put his foot in it.

And if it was just an outcry about how the marketing guy spoke about it, then I would be ok with that. But it wasn't, it turned into a "rape should never be used as a storytelling tool" argument which is completely fucked up. Rape can be used as a powerful tool to tell a story and while it should be used carefully and sparingly, it should still be available for someone to use it.

Hell, I don't even think I can think of many games at all except fear and the new lara croft game where rape is even the reason the character is tough as all hell (excluding the eastern market, I don't like the aesthetic style).

Sure, its probably a shitty attempt at using it as a story attempt, but it bothers me that people are giving them such a hard time over giving it a try. Its a damn hard subject to tackle.

DugMachine:
I really don't get the fuss. Trailer was absolute shite (hehe) but this isn't the first time we've seen overly sexified women in games. Where was all the fuss then?

feminists in action? That sounds about right to me.

Hm. We'll see how this goes. It's nice that they recognize the controversy and want to avoid causing any more, but who knows if they'll do what's actually being asked of them.

dogstile:

maninahat:

dogstile:

It wasn't to build his character, throughout the game he had been built up. You find files saying how important he is. You see what happens to his team who aren't as strong as he is. At the end when he gets raped, its all taken away from him. He loses his mind. It breaks him down completely.

Funny that, they took away Lara's strength after she was built up to, and it wasn't even graphic rape.

Lara pissed people off because this new game is an origin story, and the HR guy made the mistake of implying that Lara's tough, individualist demeanor stemmed from an attempted rape. That follows on from what I was just saying about how "tough" women in stories tend to have been raped in the past and "that's why they're tough". That kind of thing never happens to explain why a man is tough.

Plus there was that remark about how rape was used to "make us care for her". He really did put his foot in it.

And if it was just an outcry about how the marketing guy spoke about it, then I would be ok with that. But it wasn't, it turned into a "rape should never be used as a storytelling tool" argument which is completely fucked up. Rape can be used as a powerful tool to tell a story and while it should be used carefully and sparingly, it should still be available for someone to use it.

Hell, I don't even think I can think of many games at all except fear and the new lara croft game where rape is even the reason the character is tough as all hell (excluding the eastern market, I don't like the aesthetic style).

Sure, its probably a shitty attempt at using it as a story attempt, but it bothers me that people are giving them such a hard time over giving it a try. Its a damn hard subject to tackle.

It is a damn hard subject to tackle, and I think the complaints come from when the tropes gets used badly, rather than it being used at all.

A few recent examples (not necessarily game ones) is the rape of Lizbeth in The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (its in the story to show how tough she is, getting violent revenge on the rapist) and Jack from Mass Effect 2 (for the exact same reason).

The thing is, before then, rape was always used as a cheap way to threaten vulnerable, powerless damsels in distress. Now it is used as a rite of passage for tough women. Bearing in mind how many women play games (or watch movies, read books etc.) in this day and age, their opinion is finally starting to get noticed, and it turns out, they don't like having rape cropping up in their escapist fantasies all the time.

Drauger:
Well i forget sometimes we're linving in the age when people "get offended" about everything, as long as the nuns got more story now im fine, but really if they remove violence/sex out just because the whole trailer and people getting offended, i wont freaking buy the game , why ? BECAUSE IT OFFENDS ME WHEN MY GAMES GET CENSORED.

Really !! why don't we change pulp fiction, that movie had a lot of mindless violence, heck it even has some seriously offensive rape scene agains a poor black man , wait wait, yes lets change inglorious basterds thats offensive, what about the A Clockwork Orange, sex? mindless violence? rape? yup its got it all.

Hate when people get offended.

Being offended is ones reaction to something they think is wrong. If nothing offends you that is because you have no conscious. Everyone is getting offended about everything because we live in an era where freedom of speech is sacred, and the Internet makes it easy for one to push an idea en mass, and... oh my god! There is a lot that is wrong, both on a small scale and a larger one.

As for censorship, they are not removing the nuns from the game, their just giving a reason for it to be there for a more mature audience that wants more out of their experience. This is why no one complains about something like "Inglorious Bastards" where all its 'offense' material serves a greater purpose in the piece. The pulp fiction section doesn't get a lot of attention because the works within it aren't that well known and therefore nobody cares.

Though any creator of media really needs to ask themselves at the end of the day what their work is saying. It isn't because it might inspire a psycho (because anything can inspire them), but because every piece of literature, every game, movie, book etc has a small impact on our culture and how everyone acts, and reacts. That is a lot of power, and while one cannot be stopped from making what they will, one has to ask themselves if they trust this power to various organizations that make media.

IO realized the hard way that they have this responsibility. Understanding that the market isn't mostly teenage boys anymore is a step towards that.

Mind you it wouldn't have been as offensive if it wasn't an image that has been depicted ad nausem.

nexus:
I'm getting really, really tired of the political correctness pervading games journalism as of late. Really sick and tired of it.

People need to grow up.

Not everything is "misogynist". If the PC-brigade had their way, then video games would turn into all American sitcoms. The ones where every male is a blabbering, useless, cowardly idiot who is lucky to have found the matriarchal beautiful genius he currently lives with. Equality =/= Misandry ?

To be fair, gaming is the only medium outside of literature that portrays realistic characters, both male and female. It doesn't mean every game needs to be politically correct however.

Are you shitting me?

Gaming has even less realistic characters in them than movies.

And enough about 'political correctness.' For starters, journalism is suppose to be politically correct. Their professionals, they should act it and write accordingly.

Next, asking the medium and its creators to grow the fuck up and recognize that its the 21st century is not demanding 'political correctness.'

Thirdly, no, no one is demanding that man in games become drooling fuckheads. We just want less harlets in it. Is that too much to ask? Oh, apparently it is: asking for a medium to grow up and stop it with the blatant sexism because it thinks we are all stupid teenage boys who have never touched a woman before (and that is the on;y demography this serves) is 'politically correct' and therefore 'bullshit.'

I always assume that anyone who complains about political correctness is a troll who thinks being nice to people is bullshit. I don't care if this get me reported to the mods, I'm not going to stand for it! I want to know why the gaming community hate women so much, and want to defend the right to objectify them. I want to know why racism in a game is just trivial. Is it because we have become a den for anti-social asshats: that the gaming community is their last bastion to be shitheads?

Davroth:
Let me guess. This does not set back the medium by a century, right? Because artistic vision doesn't exist when it's about anything that could be interpreted as sexist...?

Nobody forced IO to change the game, they did that out of their own free will.

That trailer was so bloody stupid I wasn't so much offended as perplexed. The sheer sexism of it was disturbing, but the sheer stupidity of it seemed to supersede that. Still, at least IO have gotten the message and decided to grow up a bit (which is something more studios need to do).

Also, the sheer amount of people bitching at "political correctness", "white knighting", and "feminism" in gaming in this thread is a bit disturbing to say the least.

I'm much more worried about the game being bad and idiotic than I am about it being misogynistic.

The issue isn't that it's a couple of women in skimpy outfits or that it's a couple of nameless grunts being killed. It's how they are killed. The VAST majority of the deaths were killed in a sexual manner. It's not okay to make a trailer that is literally a man killing women in skimpy outfits in a sexual manner. 2 boob shots, 2 asphyxiations, 1 stab to the neck and using her body as a human shield. Only three deaths aren't sexual the one of the black woman (where she's used to show remorse), the one where he used broken glass and the punch to the face before the knives.

IndomitableSam:

Legion:
I wonder if their logic behind making it was:

Developer 1: "Okay, so we want to get lot's of young adult males buying this, so what do they like?"
Developer 2:"Women in skimpy costumes!"
Developer 3: "People getting beaten up!"
Developer 1: "Okay guys, I have an idea..."

I wouldn't even go that far.

Developers: "Boobs, guns, and fetish wear! Let's DO THIS!" ... Release of trailer ... "Wait... not all gamers are teenage boys with warped sexual views on women? Really? ... Huh."

I liked it..... :(

Tenmar:
So basically they are just going to drive home the point that the nuns were ASSASSINS. Just like Hitman. That's the real outrage, people were angry because they just saw sexism instead of actually suspending their disbelief and figuring out that the nuns were assassins in the first place.

Yeah, they weren't really nuns. They were assassins in nun costumes.

So what, hot assassin chicks can't cosplay?

You know what annoyed me about that trailer?

It wasn't the scantily clad nuns.

It wasn't the fetishistic take on violence.

It wasn't the lack of context.

It wasn't the lack of back story.

It wasn't the violence toward women.

...I'm just sick of enemies being so god damned stupid, ineffective, and not realistic in their decision making in any given situation. Basically Stormtrooper syndrome.

What the hell is so hard about plinking the bald bastard in the head from across the street? Or that grenade launcher? How do you fuck up a grenade launcher!? And who goes into a melee with an established melee expert who, up until this point, has butchered every other person who's tried that approach?

I demand realistic plots and characters with realistic limitations! Also, pie! And a shrubbery!

Mikodite:
that the gaming community is their last bastion to be shitheads?

Here i think you hit the spot, you see in a game you play the role of whatever the game is supossed to be, GTA? you play the role of a thug who goes around and do whatever you want him to do, super mario? a plumber looking for a princess collecting doodas, link? the role of an epic hero, dragon age? be what you want be a hero an ass an merc..... you get what i mean? you can play roles in videogames, there are also some movies i stated before ( just some that came to my mind) in cich characters can be a A**holes if they want, only difference? video games are more interactive.

Theres no room for that kind of stuff today in other media, whach tv, movies, comics, ect...... everything is censored to be more "political correct" with some little exceptions, and at least for me it seems thats the way the video games are taking and it pisses the hell out of me, after all i stated before IT'S A VIDEOGAME, it's not supposed to be played by kids thats the esrb thingie for, videogames its the last bastion were anyone can be whatever he/she wants to be, the best thing its fiction a videogame ! and you dont have to be like that in real life !!! cool right?!.

So if theres harlots as you said before in a media the writers/devolpers/whatever considered you a stupid teenage boy?? really?? because of boobies?, have you tought its maybe part of the atmosphere where the story takes place?, like crime cartels, clones, exagerated fights ect???.

If people gets offended just dont buy the game, rant if you want but thats it, but if the game it's altered because someone got offended ummm what about the rest of the comunity that bought the previous games, and that is used to that kind of atmosphere?? they wont get the game as it was intended.

Lastly no one in this thread said that hates women ._. where did that came from really?, if a bald clone takes out women in a violent fight in wich btw he also got his ass beaten, then is hate agains woman, but hey ._. aren't usually mot "bad guys" men? is that hate towards men as a genre?, heck i dont know if theres a group of women that comes to kick your ass with a rocket launcher included you're not going to defend yourself? the game industry objetify men 2 you know?, must players dont look like kratos, dante ect,nope most men arent super spies, or modified clones, time travelers and all that crap we see in videogames , but its ok its fiction you see?.

I am curious why there is controversy regarding the trailer in the first place. The nun hit squad were dressed in skimpy outfits, which I can understand and buy as a diversionary tactic or some form of psychological warfare. The entire crew was dressed that way, showing some sort of gang unity and they were all trying to kill 47. He dispatches the squad in a cold and business like manner, he never goes out of his way to brutalize the women in any manner beyond what was needed to finish the job.

He never leered over the women, he never touched them in any different a way then he would have touched a man to kill them, and after they were dead, he paid them respect, gave them their last rights and left. I am not seeing an issue here. If it is the sexy outfits, that might be one thing, and as mentioned before, that could be a gang thing and if it is about the gang being a bunch of hot women, I think people just need to calm down and deal with it. They were killers, they were doing a job and they lost to a better killer.

I liked the trailer.

Mikodite:

Are you shitting me?

Gaming has even less realistic characters in them than movies.

And enough about 'political correctness.' For starters, journalism is suppose to be politically correct. Their professionals, they should act it and write accordingly.

Next, asking the medium and its creators to grow the fuck up and recognize that its the 21st century is not demanding 'political correctness.'

Thirdly, no, no one is demanding that man in games become drooling fuckheads. We just want less harlets in it. Is that too much to ask? Oh, apparently it is: asking for a medium to grow up and stop it with the blatant sexism because it thinks we are all stupid teenage boys who have never touched a woman before (and that is the on;y demography this serves) is 'politically correct' and therefore 'bullshit.'

I always assume that anyone who complains about political correctness is a troll who thinks being nice to people is bullshit. I don't care if this get me reported to the mods, I'm not going to stand for it! I want to know why the gaming community hate women so much, and want to defend the right to objectify them. I want to know why racism in a game is just trivial. Is it because we have become a den for anti-social asshats: that the gaming community is their last bastion to be shitheads?

Gaming is in a very awkward state. It demands to be taken seriously yet does very little to warrant such privileges. I would are say the most mature gaming companies are people like Atlus with the Persona series and Nintendo who just want to bring smiles to people via their family-friendly franchises. Gaming is making baby steps towards maturity, but needs to shed it bullshit insecurities before it gets there.

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