Notch Tweets Rage Over Minecraft Party Sexual Assault

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Having someone, who, society teaches you, could hurt and rape you, force you to grab their genitalia is traumatizing. When some crazy-wierdo chick does the same to a normal guy, as opposed to the other way around, the man is, usually, less traumatized. why? because he doesn't hear about weirdo women who drug, tie-up, and kidnap men to rape on the local news once a month. Considering rapes perpetrated by males is more common than female rape, and is highly publicized, it makes sense that the girl felt traumatized.

Yup Matt, she should've been humiliated for what that a-hole did to her. It was clearly her fault that the guy was a weirdo.

When people get mad at security, they usually get mad at them for not doing what they could when they had the chance, not for not having a time-machine. If you hire someone to babysit a child and that child gets injured while they are on the job, you blame the babysitter. Not because they lacked the foresight to invent a time machine, but because it was their job to make sure the child came to no harm.

CAn you really blame her for not telling authority? "Excuse me, that guy just put my hand on his dick,"

Yeah, that wouldn't be awkward or humiliating at alllllll.

iRevanchist:

Snip

That's a little blown out of proportion.

She just touched a dick, now let's be grown up about it, wash our hands and go on with our day.

Cowpoo:

iRevanchist:

Snip

That's a little blown out of proportion.

She just touched a dick, now let's be grown up about it, wash our hands and go on with our day.

Blown out of proportion, are you kidding? That wasn't some accidental hand placement in a crowded place, what he did was intentional and totally disgusting. If I were in the same situation, I couldn't imagine wanting to report something like that to a stranger. And if I did and was blown off in such a way, then yes, that would be pretty upsetting.

Jesus Christ, some of you people.

Rocklobster99:

Andy Chalk:

"Then he grabbed my free wrist and put it on his crotch and asked 'Is this big enough?'"

Holy shit, my sides.

You would have thought this crap would have received a moderation by now.

Not because it's blatantly offensive, oh no. The enforcement of the rules on this forum sucks too much for that. But because it's a FOUR WORD POST HOLY CRAP TOO SHORT DELETE DELETE DELETE!!!!

Chemical Alia:
Blown out of proportion, are you kidding?

I just find it extremely ironic that iRevanchist likened a grown woman to a child.

Chemical Alia:
That wasn't some accidental hand placement in a crowded place, what he did was intentional and totally disgusting. If I were in the same situation, I couldn't imagine wanting to report something like that to a stranger. And if I did and was blown off in such a way, then yes, that would be pretty upsetting.

Do you know what would have been "totally disgusting?" If she had caught herpes or some STI from this guy.

Chemical Alia:
Jesus Christ, some of you people.

If touching someone's penis at a party is the worst thing that can happen to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Get Real?

*deleted*

Blablahb:

Ickorus:
You two have got to be kidding me.
That's not stringing someone along, that's called being too polite to just tell the bugger to piss off because they're creeps;
And holy hell, talking to someone counts as consent these days?

I've never ran across a politeness etiquette which demanded that you engage in dirty talk with people for minutes on end, you?

And yes, talking along is almost the same as explicit consent. It's not 'talking to someone', it's dirty talk. If you've been having a conversation about sex for the past half hour, is it truly unthinkable that a person would want to take the logical next step?

Is it unthinkable that someone could talk about sex without wanting to take that step? shouldn't you make damn sure they're willing to take that step before you whip your dick out in public?

Blablahb:
I mean, if your girlfriend comes over, do you talk and such, and then pause everything and ask "But wait, do I have permission to kiss you now"? No you don't. Why? Because the background strongly suggests she'd be okay with that anyway. And if that turns out to be a huge misunderstanding, it's exactly that, a huge misunderstanding. That's not even remotely close to sexual assault.

Is your girlfriend a complete stranger you just met at a party? The "background" you're referring to doesn't exist.

Blablahb:

EstrogenicMuscle:
Yes you freaking can!
I. JUST. DON'T. EVEN.

So it's okay to engage in dirty talk and a clearly sexual situation, and when you feel a regret about that later on, blame everyone else but yourself and turn an innocent man into someone labeled as a sex offender because the girl can't maintain her own limits and is so stupid she drinks too much.

No, that would be dishonest. Worse yet, false allegations like that are even a crime.

Because, big surprise, a sexual situation is sexual in nature. Sex-related things like... *gasp* touching eachother happen there. If you didn't want any of that, don't get involved in that.

One thing you can't do is get involved voluntarily, and then blame the other for what you did.

HE GRABBED HER HAND AND PUT IT ON HIS JUNK. She didn't stick her hand down his pants and feel bad about it later. This guy took advantage of her politeness, and possibly her inebriation, then performed a sexual act on her without her consent. That makes him a sex offender. "maintain her own limits"? Just what do you think those limits are? Because it seems to me that you don't think a woman should even speak to any man she isn't willing to fuck right then and there.

Consent is an active, voluntary, and enthusiastic agreement. Consent is not a binding contract and can be revoked at any time. When you assume consent you do so at your own risk.

Chiave:

Chemical Alia:
Jesus Christ, some of you people.

If touching someone's penis at a party is the worst thing that can happen to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Get Real?

I see no fundamental difference between what he did and if he had groped her. So yeah, it's pretty fucked up to brush his actions off as no big deal and judge the actions of a complete stranger you never met as an over-reaction. And simply talking to someone is not consent to sexual conduct.

I honestly thought up until reading this thread that this sort of thing was really a matter of common sense and decency, but once again the Escapist community has proven me wrong. Shame on you, though, seriously. I don't care if you wouldn't be bothered by such a thing, but it shouldn't be difficult for anyone to see how other people could be greatly upset and humiliated by it.

cobra_ky:
Is it unthinkable that someone could talk about sex without wanting to take that step?

Is it unthinkable that someone could talk about sex and wanting to take that step?

cobra_ky:
shouldn't you make damn sure they're willing to take that step before you whip your dick out in public?

Looks like he did to a good degree from the little that the story tells us.

cobra_ky:
HE GRABBED HER HAND AND PUT IT ON HIS JUNK. She didn't stick her hand down his pants and feel bad about it later. This guy took advantage of her politeness, and possibly her inebriation, then performed a sexual act on her without her consent.

That can only be defended if 'consent' is exclusively a written form in triplicate. But it doesn't work like that fortunately. Everything about the situation looked like she was okay with it. Don't be surprised if that communicates to someone else that she'd be okay with it.

Sucks if that was a misunderstanding, but accusing someone of crimes over that is overblown, ridiculous and unfair.

Chemical Alia:
I see no fundamental difference between what he did and if he had groped her.

Her being totally okay with it for as far as he could tell comes to mind as making a difference... Unless someone wants to argue "She's a woman, he's a man, so it's always a sex crime!!1". Sounds ridiculous, but many people in the topic already made that astoundingly weird assumption.

Chemical Alia:
So yeah, it's pretty fucked up to brush his actions off as no big deal and judge the actions of a complete stranger you never met as an over-reaction. And simply talking to someone is not consent to sexual conduct.

You've understood the story wrong. It wasn't 'just talking'. Even the limited version that got out to the news article pretty clearly speaks of talking in a clear sexual context. Speaking of common sense, it's common sense that if you talk sex with someone, probably in an inviting way, that the invitation is accepted to smaller or greater degree.

I don't know how some people who rage about the guy go about sex. Talk about it, and then fill out a written invitation to a kiss in triplicate, kiss eachother, and then fill out another form for more naughty stuff? Ussually that goes pretty fluently and ad hoc doesn't it?

I really don't see the least basis for the moral highground and condemning viewpoint you're taking. There's not even the slighest indication if accidentally crossing the line was his intention.

iRevanchist:
Yup Matt, she should've been humiliated for what that a-hole did to her. It was clearly her fault that the guy was a weirdo.

Please don't try to co-opt what was actually said & try to morph it into a different statement (which is why you didn't actually quote what was said): The statement said that she should feel humiliated for not having the force of will, the social agency to defend her self in any way whatsoever. She took no action, whatsoever in her own defense: An that is humiliating, because it shows exactly how self entitled she was that she expected other people to defend her.

Cowpoo:

iRevanchist:

Snip

That's a little blown out of proportion.

She just touched a dick, now let's be grown up about it, wash our hands and go on with our day.

Actually its more then that. As i understand it, she put her hand on the front of his pants... Not on his dick. He didn't pull his dick out until afterwards. Just a point of clarity for the sake of people literally writing this narrative as they go along.

I guess you could say...

That party got out of hand.

*glasses*

YYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

Caverat:
I guess you could say...

That party got out of hand.

*glasses*

YYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

I saw what you did there... In fact you could say "CSI saw what you did there".

Chemical Alia:

I honestly thought up until reading this thread that this sort of thing was really a matter of common sense and decency, but once again the Escapist community has proven me wrong. Shame on you, though, seriously. I don't care if you wouldn't be bothered by such a thing, but it shouldn't be difficult for anyone to see how other people could be greatly upset and humiliated by it.

Haha

Right. Because treating someone who is looking for sympathy, like a baby, is the correct way to handle this situation? I'm not some boy scout master who's going to pat you on the head if you fuck up. Point blank, I don't give a fuck about how anyone feels. Your feelings don't matter.

Why not look at the facts and learn something from them, so that this won't happen again? One thing she should have gotten from all this is that she is on her own and responsible for her own safety. Now let me tell you something, THAT is fucking common sense. Not this feelings pandering bullshit.

matthew_lane:

I saw what you did there... In fact you could say "CSI saw what you did there".

Or that a bird in her hand....

Was worth none in her bush.

*glasses over glasses*

YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Right, while this guy is a massive cunt and deserves to get caught and punished, that little... technique of his is somewhat amusing.

I may be slow to the party here, but what exactly did the girl expect the security guard to do? Unfortunately it is, as always, one persons word against another's, not to mention what i guess was a very basic description given by, self-reportedly, a girl who was drinking. To search a party full of people accusing people who semi-fit a description given by someone drinking would have been irresponsible. Anyone who's been to clubs will know that sexual assault is a charge that is thrown around a lot, by people who are at very least "inebriated". I couldn't tell you how many claims are true and how many are just either misunderstandings or over-exaggerations, but from the securities point of view its an impossible situation.

To clarify: I'm not saying that this girl is somehow lying, or not deserving of someone trying to find who did this to her, just that the expectation that the security can do anything is a flawed misrepresentation of their capabilities. the best case scenario is that they can keep an eye out and see if any other situations occur from someone like that and then act, but to actively search the party is a complete waste of time.

Blablahb:
I don't know how some people who rage about the guy go about sex. Talk about it, and then fill out a written invitation to a kiss in triplicate, kiss eachother, and then fill out another form for more naughty stuff? Ussually that goes pretty fluently and ad hoc doesn't it?

I really don't see the least basis for the moral highground and condemning viewpoint you're taking. There's not even the slighest indication if accidentally crossing the line was his intention.

Here here. You are a far braver man than I, sir, for it is known that to not act emotionally and over protectively towards women in any sexual situation, as opposed to the rational view you've given, is surely death by the flame and rage of a billion users who think they are being "chivalrous".

Many people, including women, have pointed out the double standard commonly held, what is sexual assault from one man may be "hooking up with" another, depending on how attractive they are.

When security guard and even police try to say something is not a big deal, when it is, urgh, expert level of laziness reached.

Indecent exposure, sexual assault, its serious.

Rainboq:
Snip

That's it guys. We can't make jokes about anything ever in the whole world that might ever offend somebody. Party is over. Someone better call all comedians and anyone who ever talks and let them know.

Immsys:
Snip

Dude...whoa. Chill out with the logic. We have to have the witch hunt, ruin as many people as possible based on unsubstantiated claims alone, then we look back with somber recollection and use logic.

You're going out order.

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
Is it unthinkable that someone could talk about sex without wanting to take that step?

Is it unthinkable that someone could talk about sex and wanting to take that step?

The point is that you damn well don't know.

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
shouldn't you make damn sure they're willing to take that step before you whip your dick out in public?

Looks like he did to a good degree from the little that the story tells us.

I don't know what story you're reading then.

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
HE GRABBED HER HAND AND PUT IT ON HIS JUNK. She didn't stick her hand down his pants and feel bad about it later. This guy took advantage of her politeness, and possibly her inebriation, then performed a sexual act on her without her consent.

That can only be defended if 'consent' is exclusively a written form in triplicate. But it doesn't work like that fortunately. Everything about the situation looked like she was okay with it. Don't be surprised if that communicates to someone else that she'd be okay with it.

Literally nothing about this situation indicated she was ok with it. I'm not even sure why anyone would think exposing yourself at a party would be ok to begin with.

You clearly don't understand how consent works, and that's why my last post had an entire paragraph at the end describing how it works. Read it again, and note the complete lack of forms involved.

Blablahb:
Sucks if that was a misunderstanding, but accusing someone of crimes over that is overblown, ridiculous and unfair.

The only misunderstanding here is that guy doesn't understand how a competent adult behaves in public. It's completely fair to accuse him of a crime because that's allegedly what he did.

Blablahb:

Chemical Alia:
So yeah, it's pretty fucked up to brush his actions off as no big deal and judge the actions of a complete stranger you never met as an over-reaction. And simply talking to someone is not consent to sexual conduct.

You've understood the story wrong. It wasn't 'just talking'. Even the limited version that got out to the news article pretty clearly speaks of talking in a clear sexual context. Speaking of common sense, it's common sense that if you talk sex with someone, probably in an inviting way, that the invitation is accepted to smaller or greater degree.

if you talk food with someone, is that an invitation for them to start ramming shrimp down your throat? I mean it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if you're talking about food, you must be hungry.

Blablahb:

I don't know how some people who rage about the guy go about sex. Talk about it, and then fill out a written invitation to a kiss in triplicate, kiss eachother, and then fill out another form for more naughty stuff? Ussually that goes pretty fluently and ad hoc doesn't it?

Well for starters, you could at least ask "hey wanna see my cock?" before you start shoving people's hands down your pants.

Blablahb:
I really don't see the least basis for the moral highground and condemning viewpoint you're taking. There's not even the slighest indication if accidentally crossing the line was his intention.

Who gives a shit was his intentions were? His actions were criminal and morally reprehensible. I'm sure most drunk drivers never intended to cause fatal accidents, either.

Frostbite3789:

Rainboq:
Snip

That's it guys. We can't make jokes about anything ever in the whole world that might ever offend somebody. Party is over. Someone better call all comedians and anyone who ever talks and let them know.

I'm not sure why you think this is at all relevant to the post you quoted.

Frostbite3789:

Immsys:
Snip

Dude...whoa. Chill out with the logic. We have to have the witch hunt, ruin as many people as possible based on unsubstantiated claims alone, then we look back with somber recollection and use logic.

You're going out order.

We don't know the names or identities of anyone involved with this incident (except the alleged victim). Whose life could we possibly be ruining here?

You know, you really ought to give this logic thing a shot some time. it's works pretty well!

Maybe it was that whole shock thing of how close she came to being taken advantage of. People go into shock when they have a near-death experience, and you don't go up to them and say you're a wimp cause you didn't die and it's your own fault because you're responsible for your own safety. (Not in every case, don't hold me to that)
But hey, it's not like it's such a bad thing that it's only a minor incident. It makes it a lot easier for her to get over. And if it was a serious incident, nobody would have any reason to complain about it.

NortherWolf:
COngratulations Escapist. You're now officially more sexist and douchebaggy that god-damned Something Awful. Damn, I*m not going to use sexist, because then some idiot is going to cry about White-Knighting. You're basement-dwelling neckbeards, remnants of an era that for all intents and purposes should be fucking dead.

How the hell do you manage? Seriously? How the FUCK do you manage? 11 pages of mostly victim-blaming and "Lol that's hilarious.

There's only been 385 posts by this point, probably a lot of people doing repeat posts, and you decide that the WHOLE ESCAPIST is like this?
Oh yeah, and on the basis of being "douchebaggy" you called everyone here basement-dwelling neckbeards...have you BEEN to any internet community that didn't have it's share of routine morons? The only ones that don't are the ones with only 100 or so people in them.

How the FUCK do you manage?

Well enough, apparently. If you don't like it, hit the bricks, no-one is forcing you to stay.

Paradoxrifts:
You're supposed to dress up as a creeper for Minecraft parties, not be one!

Look out man, you made a joke on a thread about Sexual Assault, you might wanna take cover!

I.Muir:
No doubt this will somehow reflect badly on the gaming community
The whole thing is kind of sad

Schadrach:
Our "good friends" at Shakesville posted about this whole mess, just so you could be right: http://www.shakesville.com/2012/09/oh-look-its-time-to-talk-about-gamer.html

Oh! So now being not even a gamer, but a NERD in general makes us more likely to be rapists, that's honestly fucking worse than anything I've seen FOX news say. I can now no longer be mad at anyone in this thread after reading that bullshit and it's comments.

cobra_ky:

Frostbite3789:

Dude...whoa. Chill out with the logic. We have to have the witch hunt, ruin as many people as possible based on unsubstantiated claims alone, then we look back with somber recollection and use logic.

You're going out order.

We don't know the names or identities of anyone involved with this incident (except the alleged victim). Whose life could we possibly be ruining here?

You know, you really ought to give this logic thing a shot some time. it's works pretty well!

I'm certain he was being sarcastic. However you raise an interesting point, if anyone here had the names or addresses of people involved, would they feel the need to give any input? if not, then are all these people complaining about how bad this is just whining ineffectually, or would they just understand their place in the situation is not to interfere? fascinating questions. From some of the more... Militant posts I've read, it certainly seems that some people would like to get involved in some way, yet I'm sure that they wouldn't if given the opportunity.

cobra_ky:
HE GRABBED HER HAND AND PUT IT ON HIS JUNK. She didn't stick her hand down his pants and feel bad about it later. This guy took advantage of her politeness, and possibly her inebriation, then performed a sexual act on her without her consent.

This is the mainline problem with people's assessment of situations similar to this. Without wishing to single you out you are, in effect, not allowing for any possible scope of exaggeration, mis-remberence, forgetfulness, traumatic memory altering (real, imagined or exaggerated) and of course the obvious one, the inebriation. Instead of factoring in these things into how you look at what may or may not have happened, everyone seems to be jumping the gun and saying that not ONE of these factors significantly or insignificantly altered her recollection of the events and that her account, given a significant amount of time after the even, is a true; uninfluenced and unbiased telling of what did or did not occur.

just to clarify I'm not accusing her of lying, that would be stupid. I'm only suggesting that people should really hold off on making statements such as "THIS is what happened" until a more clear picture emerges, if that ever is the case. To take the version of events given here as gospel is an easy way to be accusing a lot of people, male and female, of rape or assault when in reality there was a misunderstanding or, at very worse, a complete rearrangement of events in a witnesses' head.

Immsys:

I'm certain he was being sarcastic. However you raise an interesting point, if anyone here had the names or addresses of people involved, would they feel the need to give any input? if not, then are all these people complaining about how bad this is just whining ineffectually, or would they just understand their place in the situation is not to interfere? fascinating questions. From some of the more... Militant posts I've read, it certainly seems that some people would like to get involved in some way, yet I'm sure that they wouldn't if given the opportunity.

I'm not sure i understand the question. Even if we knew of the parties involved i'm not sure if anything constructive could be done with that information after the fact. I can't speak for others, but the reason i think this is important to talk about is that situations like this happen all the time in the real world, and they shouldn't be tolerated in our culture or anywhere else in society. there's not much to be done about this situation now, but maybe the discussion we have here can prevent other incidents in the future.

Immsys:

cobra_ky:
HE GRABBED HER HAND AND PUT IT ON HIS JUNK. She didn't stick her hand down his pants and feel bad about it later. This guy took advantage of her politeness, and possibly her inebriation, then performed a sexual act on her without her consent.

This is the mainline problem with people's assessment of situations similar to this. Without wishing to single you out you are, in effect, not allowing for any possible scope of exaggeration, mis-remberence, forgetfulness, traumatic memory altering (real, imagined or exaggerated) and of course the obvious one, the inebriation. Instead of factoring in these things into how you look at what may or may not have happened, everyone seems to be jumping the gun and saying that not ONE of these factors significantly or insignificantly altered her recollection of the events and that her account, given a significant amount of time after the even, is a true; uninfluenced and unbiased telling of what did or did not occur.

just to clarify I'm not accusing her of lying, that would be stupid. I'm only suggesting that people should really hold off on making statements such as "THIS is what happened" until a more clear picture emerges, if that ever is the case. To take the version of events given here as gospel is an easy way to be accusing a lot of people, male and female, of rape or assault when in reality there was a misunderstanding or, at very worse, a complete rearrangement of events in a witnesses' head.

That post was in direct response to Blablahb's analysis of events as presented in the original blog post. I'll allow the possibility that ky's account isn't entirely accurate, but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, i don't see any point in speculating on it. I'm less concerned about the details of this particular incident and more concerned about the general reaction from the community here. In particular i'm concerned about people like Blablahb who seem to believe that the actions of the man in this story were entirely justifiable.

cobra_ky:
You clearly don't understand how consent works, and that's why my last post had an entire paragraph at the end describing how it works. Read it again, and note the complete lack of forms involved.

I think you're the one who needs to read up on how stuff works if anyone. I've been quite clear what I base myself on, while you've not even bothered to examine the situation at all. There's no need for talking down to me, especially not if you're wrong.

cobra_ky:
if you talk food with someone, is that an invitation for them to start ramming shrimp down your throat? I mean it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if you're talking about food, you must be hungry.

If you talk food with someone and they invite you over to a good restaurant, can you scream, call security and press charges?

cobra_ky:
Well for starters, you could at least ask "hey wanna see my cock?" before you start shoving people's hands down your pants.

For all you can know, he did, and she said yes.

cobra_ky:
Who gives a shit was his intentions were?

Why thank you. That little sentence says a lot about your reasoning. I also think we can never agree on this now.
You see, you're basically saying "He's a man, thus always guilty"

You see, socially clumsy people exist. Sexually clumsy people even exist. Equating them with sexual predators is more than a little silly.

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
You clearly don't understand how consent works, and that's why my last post had an entire paragraph at the end describing how it works. Read it again, and note the complete lack of forms involved.

I think you're the one who needs to read up on how stuff works if anyone. I've been quite clear what I base myself on, while you've not even bothered to examine the situation at all. There's no need for talking down to me, especially not if you're wrong.

I did quite a bit of reading, and i invite you to do the same: Feel free to skim, there's a lot of information here.

It seems clear to me you base your idea of consent on assumptions and vague "signals". You seem to think that an unwillingness to end a risque conversation constitutes aggreement to any number of possible sex acts. That's a failed model based on inadequate communication, and it very easily lends itself to all kinds of bad sexual experiences.

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
if you talk food with someone, is that an invitation for them to start ramming shrimp down your throat? I mean it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if you're talking about food, you must be hungry.

If you talk food with someone and they invite you over to a good restaurant, can you scream, call security and press charges?

That's not an apt metaphor, because (allegedly) he never offered an invitation. He simply presumed and acted without her consent.

If someone grabs your hand and drags you into a nice restaurant against your will, then yes, you can scream and call security and press charges.

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
Well for starters, you could at least ask "hey wanna see my cock?" before you start shoving people's hands down your pants.

For all you can know, he did, and she said yes.

For all we know she may have turned into a dragon and bitten him in half. As i said before i have no interest in rampant speculation.

Let me just ask you this: Assuming the story as told is complete and entirely factual, would it be bad if such an incident occured? Who would be at fault? What, if anything, could and should be done to prevent such incidents in the future?

Blablahb:

cobra_ky:
Who gives a shit was his intentions were?

Why thank you. That little sentence says a lot about your reasoning. I also think we can never agree on this now.
You see, you're basically saying "He's a man, thus always guilty"

That's not at all what i'm saying, and i thought the little sentences following would have made that clear: Good intentions do not absolve you of a crime. I'm sure he thought he was being quite charming, but his actions, as described, constitute a sexual assault. Gender does not figure into it.

cobra_ky:
You see, socially clumsy people exist. Sexually clumsy people even exist. Equating them with sexual predators is more than a little silly.

Clumsy? Did he or did he not intentionally move her hand to his penis? "Sexually reckless" is a more fitting term, i think.

cobra_ky:
I'm not sure i understand the question. Even if we knew of the parties involved i'm not sure if anything constructive could be done with that information after the fact. I can't speak for others, but the reason i think this is important to talk about is that situations like this happen all the time in the real world, and they shouldn't be tolerated in our culture or anywhere else in society. there's not much to be done about this situation now, but maybe the discussion we have here can prevent other incidents in the future.

I believe I was trying to question the people who type on here about the injustice, and how something must be done, without considering any practical applications. I guess as you say the real question (not the ones that I proposed, those are silly) is how exactly could this be prevented? Sadly "not very easily" is likely to be the answer. I'm not sure about you, but sexual assault and to a greater extent rape are crimes that are a clear reminder that underneath all the civilizing we are just animals clawing at a cage, alcohol just throws in the key.

cobra_ky:
That post was in direct response to Blablahb's analysis of events as presented in the original blog post. I'll allow the possibility that ky's account isn't entirely accurate, but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, i don't see any point in speculating on it. I'm less concerned about the details of this particular incident and more concerned about the general reaction from the community here. In particular i'm concerned about people like Blablahb who seem to believe that the actions of the man in this story were entirely justifiable.

You're quite right, in a blindingly embarrassing depiction of irony I did in fact jump the gun on claiming that you jumped the gun. My apologies. I suppose my real point (utterly missed due to my misuse of quotes) is aimed at the group of people who are pounding their war axes and calling for blood. Again, sorry for a long quote pointing out what you already knew.

In regard to the question you pose, while I would hardly consider myself in any way part of or representative of the larger community, yet I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't alone in feeling slightly apathetic towards events like these. Of course its very sad; of course if my feeling sad would in any way help any victims I would be happy to oblige, yet I can't shake the feeling that I really have no power to stop anything like this from happening. We've done a pretty good job of suppressing natural human instinct, I don't think wiping it out completely is really an option. As such, people will be killed, robbed, discriminated against and, to no end of sadness, raped and sexually assaulted, for all of the foreseeable future.

rbstewart7263:
And Something else. I know the image of someone taking a hand and putting it on there dick and saying "is that big enough" is funny hell its hilarious but thats not the disturbed part. the part that really matters.

The part that matters is when you come across that "darkness" in a person. Its not natural and doesnt belong in the manifest realm of the living. When you come into contact with someone like that its something else kind of like peering into a void.Its not put in someone in one day its built brick by brick for years in festering neighborhoods and shitty homes. Its creepy as hell and until you experience it and truly come into contact with it like this girl and i have you cant really understand. Its about as creepy as slender man or pyramid head.

theres something wrong that drives a person to do that.

I feel my explanation was lacking but I hope it atleast conveys the concept.

I'm afraid I have to disagree slightly with you're point. That darkness isn't "unnatural", instead it is actually far more natural than this charade of human decency that we tend to refer to as our "normal state". It is important to remember that we are animals, more so under alcohol, nice houses and schooling may hide and lessen the primal urges, but it is a mistake to assume that everyone is decent until corrupted by some malign force. They are the malign force corrupted by decency.

Having said that, I do agree that sexual aggression is a deeply saddening part of our nature. Natural isn't always better, after all nature is a cruel, cruel place.

Immsys:

cobra_ky:
I'm not sure i understand the question. Even if we knew of the parties involved i'm not sure if anything constructive could be done with that information after the fact. I can't speak for others, but the reason i think this is important to talk about is that situations like this happen all the time in the real world, and they shouldn't be tolerated in our culture or anywhere else in society. there's not much to be done about this situation now, but maybe the discussion we have here can prevent other incidents in the future.

I believe I was trying to question the people who type on here about the injustice, and how something must be done, without considering any practical applications. I guess as you say the real question (not the ones that I proposed, those are silly) is how exactly could this be prevented? Sadly "not very easily" is likely to be the answer. I'm not sure about you, but sexual assault and to a greater extent rape are crimes that are a clear reminder that underneath all the civilizing we are just animals clawing at a cage, alcohol just throws in the key.

cobra_ky:
That post was in direct response to Blablahb's analysis of events as presented in the original blog post. I'll allow the possibility that ky's account isn't entirely accurate, but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, i don't see any point in speculating on it. I'm less concerned about the details of this particular incident and more concerned about the general reaction from the community here. In particular i'm concerned about people like Blablahb who seem to believe that the actions of the man in this story were entirely justifiable.

You're quite right, in a blindingly embarrassing depiction of irony I did in fact jump the gun on claiming that you jumped the gun. My apologies. I suppose my real point (utterly missed due to my misuse of quotes) is aimed at the group of people who are pounding their war axes and calling for blood. Again, sorry for a long quote pointing out what you already knew.

In regard to the question you pose, while I would hardly consider myself in any way part of or representative of the larger community, yet I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't alone in feeling slightly apathetic towards events like these. Of course its very sad; of course if my feeling sad would in any way help any victims I would be happy to oblige, yet I can't shake the feeling that I really have no power to stop anything like this from happening. We've done a pretty good job of suppressing natural human instinct, I don't think wiping it out completely is really an option. As such, people will be killed, robbed, discriminated against and, to no end of sadness, raped and sexually assaulted, for all of the foreseeable future.

Sorry, but i just don't buy the "drunken monkey" model of human behavior. Most of us have absolutely no difficulty acting like civilized human beings every day of our lives, and on the rare occasion where somebody gives in to their base desires and kills, or steals, we rightfully condemn that person and their actions.

How can we stop this from happening? We can take things like this seriously, for starters. We can stop cracking jokes about it and laughing it off. We can stop second-guessing the victim and defending the perpetrator. We can stop throwing up our hands and blaming it all on alcohol or human nature. We can have a frank and honest discussion about consent and safe, appropriate ways of initiating sexual contact. The more we talk about these things, the more people understand what actually went wrong here and how not to repeat the same mistakes, the less likely they are to be involved in them in the future.

cobra_ky:
Sorry, but i just don't buy the "drunken monkey" model of human behavior. Most of us have absolutely no difficulty acting like civilized human beings every day of our lives, and on the rare occasion where somebody gives in to their base desires and kills, or steals, we rightfully condemn that person and their actions.

I'm sorry but I can't help but disagree with that view. 100 years ago intellectualism was pushing towards a pretentious denial of our animalistic nature, furthered by the main philosophers of the time, and a view that humans were "better" than animals, thus not only capable of, but obliged to, a strong code of ethics. I won't go into how arrogant it is to claim to be an arbiter of morality, but what i can say with certainty is that this shows that before and during that time, humans were impulsive creatures, tending towards murder, rape, stealing and many other things that we now with hindsight consider wrong. So something changed. We weren't always nice and good and corrupted by alcohol, we were always corrupted and made "good" by social forces, we just sometimes revert back to the pre-social state due to circumstance. There is no further reason necessary than to look at the acts committed by those in extreme poverty, they lack certain things (wealth, clean food or water, education) and so commit what we would call atrocities. They are human, they are not the exception, for the majority of human history THAT has been the norm, we are the exception.

cobra_ky:
How can we stop this from happening? We can take things like this seriously, for starters. We can stop cracking jokes about it and laughing it off. We can stop second-guessing the victim and defending the perpetrator. We can stop throwing up our hands and blaming it all on alcohol or human nature. We can have a frank and honest discussion about consent and safe, appropriate ways of initiating sexual contact. The more we talk about these things, the more people understand what actually went wrong here and how not to repeat the same mistakes, the less likely they are to be involved in them in the future.

We joke about murder, joke about it a lot in fact. Coming to terms with death has recently (last 50-100 years or so) come into mainstream consciousness, why should sexual assault be different? We can stop having logical discussions about the reality of sexual assault, such as the fact that very few claims are verifiable and the fact that false claims are made? that seems rather naive and childish, don't you think? Blaming it on a combination of human nature and alcohol are pretty big pillars, add in stupidity and you have the majority of cases figured out. It certainly seemed to me that this guy wasn't malicious, people who don't care about hurting people tend not to try to chat and up their potential rape victims.

The reason most people tend to not see the point about talking sexual assault is that drunken people mistaking consent do so mostly because they are drunk, they wouldn't usually mistake consent. Talking about consent isn't going to make them not make mistakes when they are drunk, in the same way that talking about balance isn't going to make drunk people not fall over. Taking out that proportion of the rapist crowd, and you are talking to the people who INTEND to assault people, and then you might as well be talking to Croyden about robbing people.

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