BioWare Confirms Dragon Age III: Inquisition

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SmashLovesTitanQuest:
The game will probably have the typical flaws we have come to expect from Bioware games (black and white morality, terrible and awkward romance plots, one dimensional characters, a dull and generic storyline when you look at the big picture) but it might manage to be a decent game despite that.

Black and white morality - how is that a flaw? Don't we have good and evil in everyday life?

Terrible romance plots - they are not terrible, you are exaggerating

One dimensional characters - because such people do not exist in real life. no. no way!

Dull storyline - quite the contrary, the storylines they make are pretty good.

Karinnare:
Black and white morality - how is that a flaw? Don't we have good and evil in everyday life?

Depends on how you see things, doesn't it? Everyone has their one perception of good and evil, something Bioware no longer understand. Each one of the decisions you make has a clear, labelled "This is good" option and an equally clear "This is bad" option. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are too few. They even go as far as putting in the obligatory morality meter, which is just terrible.

This, together with the new dialogue wheel, forced every one of your characters into one of two archtypes. That is pretty damn terrible for any game, but for a supposed RPG, its deadly.

Karinnare:
Terrible romance plots - they are not terrible, you are exaggerating

They are. Heres why: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.341970-Bioware-romances-and-lovestories-in-games-in-general

Karinnare:
One dimensional characters - because such people do not exist in real life. no. no way!

Of course they do.

But the point is that if you're going to craft your game around an extremely unrealistic setting where extremely unrealistic and far fetched things happen, why the hell are cliched people something you absolutely HAVE to bring with you from the real word?

Better yet, why do you have to have only cliche characters in your games? I can't think of a single original and interesting character in one of the newer Bioware games. Character development is also predictable and drab.

I'm not saying all the characters are unsympathetic - because they're not (all, anyway), I quite like a few of them - but still.

Karinnare:
Dull storyline - quite the contrary, the storylines they make are pretty good.

Ancient evil threatens the world. Ancient evil gets banished. The end.

Exception: Mass Effect 3. Ancient evil threatens the world - no, wait. Sorry. The universe. Ancient evil almost gets banished but then space magic happens and a hologram talks for 2 minutes, raising around 50 plot holes in the process.

What a testimony to good writing, eh!

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Ancient evil threatens the world. Ancient evil gets banished. The end.

Exception: Mass Effect 3. Ancient evil threatens the world - no, wait. Sorry. The universe. Ancient evil almost gets banished but then space magic happens and a hologram talks for 2 minutes, raising around 50 plot holes in the process.

What a testimony to good writing, eh!

No offense, but the same could be said for any game if you generalize that much.

SajuukKhar:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Ancient evil threatens the world. Ancient evil gets banished. The end.

Exception: Mass Effect 3. Ancient evil threatens the world - no, wait. Sorry. The universe. Ancient evil almost gets banished but then space magic happens and a hologram talks for 2 minutes, raising around 50 plot holes in the process.

What a testimony to good writing, eh!

No offense, but the same could be said for any game if you generalize that much.

No, not really.

Non of the Gothic games are about an ancient evil that threatens to destroy the world. Neither of The Witcher games are. Etc, etc.

Plus most story centric games don't end with space magic children and plot holes. I think you play too many bad games and not enough good ones if you believe what you just wrote.

EDIT: Also good job editing Obsidian out of your post after you remembered half their games aren't about ancient evils. Top class posts.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Depends on how you see things, doesn't it? Everyone has their one perception of good and evil, something Bioware no longer understand. Each one of the decisions you make has a clear, labelled "This is good" option and an equally clear "This is bad" option. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are too few. They even go as far as putting in the obligatory morality meter, which is just terrible.

This, together with the new dialogue wheel, forced every one of your characters into one of two archtypes. That is pretty damn terrible for any game, but for a supposed RPG, its deadly.

Precisely, depends on how you see things.
If you want to claim that good and evil labels are terrible you're free to do so, but that doesn't make it true.
For example: throughout the game, much like during day to day life, sometimes's I'm good, sometimes I'm not; it depends on a lot of things and my perception of them. I always finish my games with a meter close to the center (20% up the good bar, or 10% down the evil bar).
I do not belong to an archetype. The choices I make are my own.

Also, the in-game notifications ("you made 2 good points" / "you earned 3 evil points") don't bother me either - they're just in-game feedback, and I appreciate it.
When a game tells me "Quest complete" ... I already knew I've done it, and I'm not revolting and calling the game terrible because it insists on shoving down my throat the fact that I've completed the quest.... same with the messages here. Let them write it, I knew what mood I was in before clicking the dialogue line.

The meter is not obligatory as having a weapon equipped is; you can finish the game / fight the boss at the end with any meter you choose to have.

It has good parts, it has flaws, and I take it for what it is: a tool that keeps track of my actions regarding their good/evil nature, and can be ignored at any time with no in-game repercussions.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

They are. Heres why: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.341970-Bioware-romances-and-lovestories-in-games-in-general

A quote from there:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Also of note is the fact that you can try hitting on Mira in KOTOR II, and she will explicitly turn you down and say she's just not into you. [...]
And it better reflects the real world, where not every girl I hit on is going to fall madly in love with me.
SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Cant stress how much I agree with this last part.

Well, I agree with this as well.
In ME3 I liked the assistant (the girl that sits next to the map and tells you when you've got new messages and stuff). I tried hitting on her, she politely told me I'm not her type and that was it.
Since I didn't fancy anyone else I decided to end the game alone and not hit on another chars.

Don't know what you've been playing, but in my case the two situations look very much alike, wouldn't you agree?
So much that you could replace them and jeffers could use ME3 as his example of an in-game romance done right that better reflects the real world, where not everyone falls for you.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Better yet, why do you have to have only cliche characters in your games? I can't think of a single original and interesting character in one of the newer Bioware games. Character development is also predictable and drab.

- I like Mordin's approach on things. If it's another character that he reminds me of, it's Sherlock Holmes.
- Samara decides to abandon her life, even her family, in pursuit of justice. I like the presence of this character. While I agree we need people like that, personally I could never do it. It intrigues me, and as such I want to see her in different circumstances, talk to her, see how she reacts given her strong trait.
- Krogans as well. Given their single-minded love of war and violence ... how do they act when confronted with a chance to sacrifice themselves for a greater cause they believe in? Do they have friends? Are they capable of writing poetry? Do we have artists among these guys ...
- I like Thane most of all, and his view on things.
- I liked the situation they made when Legion decided to wear a piece of N7 armor.
- I also enjoy the geth, at first they reminded me of the algae from Herbert's Pandora trilogy.

I actually believe people could learn something by playing these games, and the fact that you don't find a single interesting character is your own problem.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/enriching-lives
I recommend watching, they say it a lot better than I could.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Ancient evil threatens the world. Ancient evil gets banished. The end.

Every story out there is shit if you resume it to start-finish. This is just lame argumentation from your part, sorry.

It's like me telling a big football fan about his favourite match of all time: "Well it starts, some score more than the others, and that's it, it ends."
You could phrase it like that, but it says more about you really than the game.
And as far as narrative goes Bioware does good work.

Karinnare:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Depends on how you see things, doesn't it? Everyone has their one perception of good and evil, something Bioware no longer understand. Each one of the decisions you make has a clear, labelled "This is good" option and an equally clear "This is bad" option. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are too few. They even go as far as putting in the obligatory morality meter, which is just terrible.

This, together with the new dialogue wheel, forced every one of your characters into one of two archtypes. That is pretty damn terrible for any game, but for a supposed RPG, its deadly.

Precisely, depends on how you see things.
If you want to claim that good and evil labels are terrible you're free to do so, but that doesn't make it true.
For example: throughout the game, much like during day to day life, sometimes's I'm good, sometimes I'm not; it depends on a lot of things and my perception of them. I always finish my games with a meter close to the center (20% up the good bar, or 10% down the evil bar).
I do not belong to an archetype. The choices I make are my own.

Also, the in-game notifications ("you made 2 good points" / "you earned 3 evil points") don't bother me either - they're just in-game feedback, and I appreciate it.
When a game tells me "Quest complete" ... I already knew I've done it, and I'm not revolting and calling the game terrible because it insists on shoving down my throat the fact that I've completed the quest.... same with the messages here. Let them write it, I knew what mood I was in before clicking the dialogue line.

The meter is not obligatory as having a weapon equipped is; you can finish the game / fight the boss at the end with any meter you choose to have.

It has good parts, it has flaws, and I take it for what it is: a tool that keeps track of my actions regarding their good/evil nature, and can be ignored at any time with no in-game repercussions.

I guess the archtype thing is a matter of preference.

The thing is, the morality meter also limits what a developer can do with quests. Every choice has to slot into paragon or renegade (using ME as an example here). It shows.

Yes, I can ignore the morality meter. I cannot ignore the lack of grey in the quests. Not once in Origins or Mass Effect did I think back and regret a decision, not once did I end up dealing with consequences I couldn't predict.

Karinnare:
Don't know what you've been playing, but in my case the two situations look very much alike, wouldn't you agree?
So much that you could replace them and jeffers could use ME3 as his example of an in-game romance done right that better reflects the real world, where not everyone falls for you.

I love how you picked out the two posts in a 3 page thread that you can turn into an argument, but ignored the rest.

The romances are still terribly written and not up to par to the rest of the game(s). You read the thread, so you know why I think so. One assistent turning you down doesn't make the possible romances any better.

Karinnare:
I actually believe people could learn something by playing these games, and the fact that you don't find a single interesting character is your own problem.

I have played most Bioware games. I skipped Dragon Age 2 but other than that, I completed almost all of them.

Anyway, I guess it is my problem. Maybe I shouldn't have read all those mediocre books, that way I wouldn't be spoiled by all these decent characters with their development and shit. Then I could truly apprecciate Mordin and Samara!

And perhaps, then I could make posts like you too. Respond to legitimate quarrels with something that boils down to "Well I like it because I like it!".

But alas, I watched to much good TV, played to many good games and read a few good books, so I guess that is not going to happen.

Karinnare:
It's like me telling a big football fan about his favourite match of all time: "Well it starts, some score more than the others, and that's it, it ends."
You could phrase it like that, but it says more about you really than the game.

Broken metaphor, you can't compare a game of football to a fictional story about whatever.

Anyhow, matter of opinion I guess. I find the world ending storyline to be lacklustre. Its done too often. Its tired, its not creative, and theres not all that much you can do with it.

Karinnare:
And as far as narrative goes Bioware does good work.

Compared to most developers maybe.

Compared to most writers who work for television, the movie industry or for a publisher, no fucking way.

Hoestly, I'd be happy with another Dragon Age game, I really enjoyed both the previous installments and Awakening too. As long as they give us more variety in the environments and give us an compelling storyline as well as keeping the combat fluid and challenging, then I'll be pretty happy. Well, that and they don't do a ME ending on us again.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

not once did I end up dealing with consequences I couldn't predict.

So that means the objectives were clear, well presented so that you can understand what's required of you, and the game did not lie to you either, so in the end you made an informed choice.
It is a piece of crap game indeed, I see it now.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

I love how you picked out the two posts in a 3 page thread that you can turn into an argument, but ignored the rest.

The romances are still terribly written and not up to par to the rest of the game(s). You read the thread, so you know why I think so. One assistent turning you down doesn't make the possible romances any better.

I did pick a few out of many, for a couple of reasons:

1. They are valid.
2. I didn't think it appropriate to comment 2pages worth of ideas from another thread here; I can do it and we can discuss about it there.

Until then, one assistant turning me down is one step closer to that thing done right that better reflects the real world.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Anyway, I guess it is my problem. Maybe I shouldn't have read all those mediocre books, that way I wouldn't be spoiled by all these decent characters with their development and shit. Then I could truly apprecciate Mordin and Samara!

And perhaps, then I could make posts like you too. Respond to legitimate quarrels with something that boils down to "Well I like it because I like it!".

But alas, I watched to much good TV, played to many good games and read a few good books, so I guess that is not going to happen.

When I started with "I like it", I followed with an argument.
If you read your books as well as you did this post, it's clear how much you understand out of them.
Let me save you the trouble and quote myself:
" I also enjoy the geth, at first they reminded me of the algae from Herbert's Pandora trilogy. "

See? An argument! Do you understand how it works?

Saying "I read good books and watch good TV, thus this is shallow." is different.
What exactly is shallow in it? What are you comparing it with that was done better?

I could fall back to generic and vague moral statements like yours as well: "I too read good books and, in the light of that, you post is not good."
However, that is not a proper way to sustain your point of view.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Broken metaphor, you can't compare a game of football to a fictional story about whatever.

I am, of course, as any reasonable person would guess, comparing nothing.

I am saying that by shitty telling, anything can be made uninteresting.
"It starts, some shit goes around, then it ends."

Mass Effect.
Game of football.
Story of your life.
Of mine.
Of Earth.

The fact that they're different, yet they sound the same when told in your fashion, only strengthens my point.

Karinnare:

Black and white morality - how is that a flaw? Don't we have good and evil in everyday life?

No, not really. "Evil" tends to require being bad "for the sake of being bad", such a concept doesn't really happen in real life very often.

There are those who commit atrocities, but when they do there is normally some kind of psychological issue involved as opposed to them being born with the "evil gene".

In reality, very rarely is one side entirely wrong, while the other side is entirely right. There are always multiple perspectives, and it normally tends to be whatever side you start on, that you end up supporting.

The fact that more civilians have died due to allied forces invading Iraq and Afghanistan than those who died in the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks is proof of that.

I completely agree with you Legion.

However, simplification should not be a foreign concept either.
Just as the games don't require you to eat, or else your character dies, you know...

Let the groaning begin!!!

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