Dead or Alive 5 Director: A Lot of Fans Want Bigger Breasts

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Tenmar:

Sacman:
<.> they're already absurdly large as it is... any bigger and its just silly... also, impossible to get off to...<.<

Actually if you consider the evolution of the DOA series, the breast size has actually not only been reduced but also become more realistic. Do note that that if you look at the PS1 version and turn on the breast jiggle it would be wildly out of control. It's a good fighting game and I'm glad they stand by their fans and enjoy that it is a video game where they have creative control.

If anything if we really wanna talk about the whole sexism issue. The one big argument I keep seeing is that the people who bring up the issue always wants everything to be super realistic. I find this to be quite sad because the downside of going 100% realistic is that it sucks away all the creativity and imagination out of people. Because when you get right to the heart of it all they want is to have the games designed their way and not the way of the designer. We wouldn't have any artistic styles used and everything would have to be even if an art style of exaggeration was used to have characters be "proportionate". I'm sorry but I have to see that every day. I mean the only exaggeration I get to see is the 300lbs woman and man walking down the street and I'd much rather appreciate the jiggle from the DOA girls than the jiggle from obese people.

I guess I'm just not getting out enough then, or talk to any females.

My complaint would only be that I don't know if there's a counterpoint to DOA's juggle fest. Maybe beyond good and evil. Iunno. I just wish to see proportionate characters, or characters that are characters beyond some tropes, even if they are made of different tropes altogether.

Besides, it's more of a fetish for me to see a proportionate lady than one where melons were were nailed to them.

Amaror:
While this whole "We want bigger breasts!" thing is pretty retardet, it's kinda nice to see a developer who tries to satisfy the fans of the series before he tries to get new fans.
Would have done a lot good, if a developer like Bioware would be like this.

i promise you that the put the boobs back to the sizes they were before you "fixed them" would have been a single data point among countless others... But its the one this article focuses on, because it stirs up fake controvercy... apparently Escpaist writers are emulating the fox news model of "news reporting."

This dude deserves all the praise we can throw at him. You know how long I've been waiting for someone in the industry to finally recognise that the core fans come first long before anything else when creating a game? Because I've forgotten... But I do know it's been a while.

What almost everyone seems to regularly miss, and has done so again this time, is that you don't have to like the product in question. No seriously, hear me out. So you don't like DOA because it has tits. Big whoop. You know who cares about that? You. That's pretty much it. Do the developers care? No. Wanna know why? Because in this case they're paying attention to the most important party, the fanbase. You know, the people who give them the money to stay in business. So long as they make the product those fans want the opinions of people who don't buy the game and have no influence over the game are irrelevant.
So, you might counter this argument with "But it mires public opinion of gamers!" to which I will answer, so does the entire fighting genre. So does the entire RPG genre, so does the entire shooting genre for that matter. In fact, gaming mires the public perception of gamers. Being a gamer will continue to be considered fringe, probably for the rest of time, so just get used to it.
Is it sexist? Possibly, depends on your stance. Personally I find the in-game characters slightly unrealistic, but asides that it's just kinda there, I play the games for the fighting. There will come a point at which boobs are made so large they might actually impact on gameplay and we may be at that point, I don't think we have, but who knows? Regardless it is what the fanbase wants apparently. Now, what does my argument boil down to? Get the fuck over it. There's more important shit to be worrying about and there's more offensive shit to be offended by, just be happy there are people out there willing to listen to their fans before they listen to executives and people complaining at the front gate who had no intention of buying or playing the product in the first place. And as a side note, try not to make blanket assumptions about a fanbase. The game has several attractions, much like most games. In this case breasts are just one of them, strive to bare that in mind.
(Yes I do consider myself a bit of a fan of the franchise, yes I am bitter at being lumped in with assumed the "Dem sexist man-children who like big boobies cause they don't have a girlfriend" demographic)

Rant has now concluded.

I don't get people, if they want porn, why not get porn?

And here we are again with the ignorance... every other media ranges in all matters of absurdity and sexuality, but how dare someone bring that to games!

If you want to have an undeveloped medium then you are on the right path.

ExtraDebit:
I don't get people, if they want porn, why not get porn?

Because big boobd =/= porn, in exactly the same way pop corn =/= the cinema.

Lets try this without guilt by association, huh.

So, just popping in to say/reiterate: I think the main issue here is not the large breasts, but that, as suggested by "to tone down the sexiness of the game, and of the characters," and "If you have a solid fighting game system there, there's nothing wrong with having beautiful characters as a layer on top of that", large breasts are synonymous with sexy and beautiful. That without them you don't have characters that are as sexy and or beautiful.
That's really not the case.

Also:

Nalgas D. Lemur:

There are not words.

Please specify what "a lot" means?
100k is a lot
but it can be 95% or 10% of all player base
So you can't make assumption based only on a "a lot"

Tippy:
Most fans playing at home (or in arcades) are NOT concentrating on the sexy females as much as they are concentrating on playing the actual game, i.e. NOT DYING and WINNING.

Which is how I almost ended up playing Bayonetta in front of a group of 8 year olds. When you see someone's clothes fly off in that game, you don't start drooling, you check the health bars at the bottom of the screen to see how much damage that last special move did and if you need to adjust your strategy.

On-Topic: Just stop. If you want people to take your game seriously, stop. Tekken has boxing kangaroos and it's less of a laughing stock than DoA.

I like big breasts, fact.

l3o2828:
How about instead of making bigger breasts we just take more clothes off of Eliot?
I'm sure that wont spark as high of a media rage as this.

Eliot needs bigger boobage the most. He's totally flat!

I wish Dead Or Alive and Team Ninja would go die in a fire.
This and Call Of Duty represent all the bad things about gaming culture.

Grey Carter:
"If you have a solid fighting game system there, there's nothing wrong with having beautiful characters as a layer on top of that -- that's another layer of entertainment that there's a need for.

Another layer of entertainment...well that's one way to put it.

Look, DoA is known for one thing: jiggle-physics. It's the series' trademark. Hell, the term "jiggle-phyics" was created by the DoA series. If you take jiggle-physics out of a fighting game that is described as "paper-rock-scissors with jiggle-phyics", all you're left with is "paper-rock-scissors", and people don't want to pay $60 for something they can do for free with their friends. Sure, Yahtzee might make fun of you for how absurd the notion of a top-heavy kunoichi is, but indeed: that's what the core fanbase of the series has come to expect - and want - from you, and alienating your core fanbase is never a good idea.

ScruffyMcBalls:
This dude deserves all the praise we can throw at him. You know how long I've been waiting for someone in the industry to finally recognise that the core fans come first long before anything else when creating a game? Because I've forgotten... But I do know it's been a while.

What almost everyone seems to regularly miss, and has done so again this time, is that you don't have to like the product in question. No seriously, hear me out. So you don't like DOA because it has tits. Big whoop. You know who cares about that? You. That's pretty much it. Do the developers care? No. Wanna know why? Because in this case they're paying attention to the most important party, the fanbase. You know, the people who give them the money to stay in business. So long as they make the product those fans want the opinions of people who don't buy the game and have no influence over the game are irrelevant.
So, you might counter this argument with "But it mires public opinion of gamers!" to which I will answer, so does the entire fighting genre. So does the entire RPG genre, so does the entire shooting genre for that matter. In fact, gaming mires the public perception of gamers. Being a gamer will continue to be considered fringe, probably for the rest of time, so just get used to it.
Is it sexist? Possibly, depends on your stance. Personally I find the in-game characters slightly unrealistic, but asides that it's just kinda there, I play the games for the fighting. There will come a point at which boobs are made so large they might actually impact on gameplay and we may be at that point, I don't think we have, but who knows? Regardless it is what the fanbase wants apparently. Now, what does my argument boil down to? Get the fuck over it. There's more important shit to be worrying about and there's more offensive shit to be offended by, just be happy there are people out there willing to listen to their fans before they listen to executives and people complaining at the front gate who had no intention of buying or playing the product in the first place. And as a side note, try not to make blanket assumptions about a fanbase. The game has several attractions, much like most games. In this case breasts are just one of them, strive to bare that in mind.
(Yes I do consider myself a bit of a fan of the franchise, yes I am bitter at being lumped in with assumed the "Dem sexist man-children who like big boobies cause they don't have a girlfriend" demographic)

Rant has now concluded.

But dude, everyone knows that the main demographic of games nowadays are enraged feminists and predominantly failed journalists or developers instead writing about games with feminist tendencies.

If they show less skin and decrease the size of the breasts every feminist on earth will buy this game instead! Think of all the profit!

Nalgas D. Lemur:

Some of my male friends have talked about this anime thing, and mentioned how it's about "zombies and so cool" and they watch it because of the zombies. A female anime fan call bullshit on this every time they bring it up, and a massive argument is had. I don't watch anime. I have no idea what they are talking about, but I now know who I believe more XD.

At least I think it's this one they talk about... There are zombies right? I only saw boobs dodging bullets...

I want a penis dodging bullets too...

JUST MAKE THEM BLOODY NAKED AND BE DONE WITH IT.

And add... oh, I dunno... cunnilingus fatalities or something. It is a fighting game, right?

ScruffyMcBalls:
Being a gamer will continue to be considered fringe, probably for the rest of time

This is the only part of your rant I have a problem with. Well, problem is probably too strong a word. I just don't think that prediction can be justified.

Gaming has become too widespread. It's almost as ubiquitous as watching television anymore. The time will come, probably pretty soon, where it's just accepted. Fox News will probably continue to bang on about it for a few years afterwards, but that'll likely be it.

As gaming becomes more and more commonplace, people will just accept it. It won't be a conscious thing, but it will happen. After all, how can you continue to marginalize a group that is actually a majority.

A common counter-example people often bring up is comics. Comics (in their current form) have been around since the early 20th century, but have never seen widespread acceptance. Why do I think gaming will be different? Simply because comics were never as widely popular as gaming is now. I've seen a statistic that 90% of males age 15-25 (in America) play video games regularly. While I don't know if that particular statistic is true, I think it's pretty close to the mark.

With that many people playing games, gaming as a hobby will eventually just become normal, like watching TV. It won't be a conscious thing, it will just happen. It will be absorbed into normative society.

I know some gamers like to think of themselves as outsiders, but that's increasingly becoming less and less true. They may still be outsiders, but it's no longer because of gaming.

Personally, I would prefer it if the look of a work was decided by artists, designers and the people that make the character models rather then douchebag chavs and jocks with IQ's lower than their age, but maybe that's just because I REALLY detest the whole idea of "sex sells". Even on the stuff I like, knowing that there's a large amount of people who are just playing it because OMG TITS makes me feel dirty. Looking at you Makoto.

Nalgas D. Lemur:

Dexter111:
They've got it all wrong, it's not the size that matters but the quality of the jiggle physics. They need to innovate in that space instead.

They should take notes from this. I don't think it's possible to top it for sheer absurdity in either size or jiggliness. People have done extended analyses of it trying to work out the physics involved and come to all sorts of crazy conclusions.

holy shit i forgot about that dude seeing that for the first time i thought

WTF zombie Apocalypse and you dont have a knife
You are a horrible shot
Kill yourself

oh ya backstory on that girl is wearing a harness for a sniper rifle and it wont come off so he lays her down and shoots the rifle off her chest

Playful Pony:

Nalgas D. Lemur:

Some of my male friends have talked about this anime thing, and mentioned how it's about "zombies and so cool" and they watch it because of the zombies. A female anime fan call bullshit on this every time they bring it up, and a massive argument is had. I don't watch anime. I have no idea what they are talking about, but I now know who I believe more XD.

At least I think it's this one they talk about... There are zombies right? I only saw boobs dodging bullets...

I want a penis dodging bullets too...

im not so sure that would be entertaining.... simply for the fact that something would get blown off..... on second thought that would be AWESOME

i have seen the show and its... ok its like the only zombie anime that i have seen and it does stupid shit like that but it isnt all that

Just thought I had to comment
I mean I laugh every time I see the headline pop-up ranging from a nice chuckle to a full on minutes worth or mirth and it pops up quite a bit.

In my experience with games the more mainstream a title tries to be the less true to its real self it ends up, ultimately harming it's overall potential and unique qualities. There is nothing wrong with blatant sexualization in anything, if that's a part of a piece of entertainments selling point then it should remain in tact. Their isn't an ounce of misogyny in the DoA franchise, it's just a series that is comfortable with pandering to a certain demographic, anyone who has strong negative feelings towards the games for that shouldn't play them, simple as that.

I've never been offended or put off by the DoA boobs, it's just an element of the games I can laugh at for being so dumb. Instead of people thinking -everything- should be X or Y in order to appeal to number of people Z perhaps more people should just broaden their interests and perhaps stop being so kneejerky and nitpicky in their judgments of entertainment.

Arizona Kyle:
oh ya backstory on that girl is wearing a harness for a sniper rifle and it wont come off so he lays her down and shoots the rifle off her chest

Well, that's shameless fanservice justified then X3.

Arizona Kyle:
im not so sure that would be entertaining.... simply for the fact that something would get blown off..... on second thought that would be AWESOME

i have seen the show and its... ok its like the only zombie anime that i have seen and it does stupid shit like that but it isnt all that

Watching that thing again, the boob-bullet-dodging makes me laugh... It's so silly! I wish I could controll my breasts like that! I'd go to town every night and beat unsuspecting men up with my chestarea. Titslap will have a whole new meaning...

No wonder the guy misses, his view is blocked by a now deaf girl's bruised and mistreated breasts. Also, where did he get that (looks like) SR-25, are they not in highschool? (going by the name here...) I couldn't really get a look at the gun, focus was constantly on jiggling opressed boobs and skimpy underwear Oo.

Bullet-dodging penis would actually make more sense, would it not? At least men have muscles in the damn thing, breasts can NOT move on their own! ... I wouldn't put it beyond the Escapist users to find and post a video of someones breasts moving on their own now...

Ninjat_126:
On-Topic: Just stop. If you want people to take your game seriously, stop. Tekken has boxing kangaroos and it's less of a laughing stock than DoA.

It also has a bear. I would also like to point out that the hardcore Tekken fans that I know don't especially like the two most recent entries in the series (Tekken 6, Tekken Tag Tournament 2). By most accounts that I've seen the jiggle physics obsessed man-children who make DoA have actually stumbled into making an actual fighting game this time around as opposed to a glorified rock-paper-scissors simulator with titties. Perhaps the Mayans where on to something.

I think the problem here isn't that DoA needs to "Tone down the sexiness" its the automatic assumption that "Bigger Tits" = "Sexiness".

There are other ways to make a woman sexy than enormous boobs and extreme jiggle physics.

I can't get mad at you for having boobs DoA. I just wish a thing existed with scantily-clad men dodging bullets with their bouncy packages. (I feel dirty for watching that video)I would also like it better if the boobs didn't just sway in the wind "because they feel like it".

This just in: Team Ninja doesn't know how real life boobs work.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm really getting tired of the idea that Sexy Ladies = Size 00 ladies with tits the size of watermelons, because it's perpetuating this dangerous and ridiculous standard of beauty. Reality check boys, most women who have the waistline of a piece of paper have pretty small breasts to match, unless they're implants.

This just in: Team Ninja doesn't know how real life boobs work.

Not worried at all.

I mean, I know we've established I'm about as sexist as a person can be (see Femenist thread), but that's pretty much what Dead or Alive games are for now. It's not trying to assert that you should expect this level of breasts or that it is normal, it's not trying to have characters taken seriously or prove a point, it's just playing to its strengths. And if bigger breasts is going to keep fans interested...you gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm just going to say that a developer should be wary of what its fans want. I don't think it wants to end up with an insular community of players who have exactly the game they want, and it being inaccessible to anyone else because they just can't handle those DAMN BREASTS. Also look at ME3 (yeah I know, but there's an example for everything in there) - speaking as not particularly a fan but decently a fan, revealing Tali's face was a bad decision. And I get the feeling a lot of other fans, non-fans and half-fans feel that way as well. To relate back to this, Team Ninja need to make sure they've not just asked the one group of fans who wants enormous breasts and then find out that most of the playerbase would actually prefer ones smaller than enormous.

(What do I care, I'm not buying it anyway...)

EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, large breasts that are also believable would be a considerable and lasting innovation for the games industry. That's got to be worth a whole game.

Dexter111:
They've got it all wrong, it's not the size that matters but the quality of the jiggle physics. They need to innovate in that space instead.

And no wonder the "overseas office" would just follow the latest trend without doing proper market research first :P

Your right there, but there shouldn't be a right answer to this debate because this SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING DEBATE!

Capcha: be nice. FUCK YOU CAPCHA! YOU DON'T HAVE A SOUL!!!

Risingblade:

Rainboq:

Nalgas D. Lemur:

They should take notes from this. I don't think it's possible to top it for sheer absurdity in either size or jiggliness. People have done extended analyses of it trying to work out the physics involved and come to all sorts of crazy conclusions.

I... Just.... WTF Japan.

Yeah! who the hell misses slow moving targets with a fucking sniper riffle!

Pretty easily actually. But that's not the point. BOOBS DON'T WORK THAT WAY.

The last DOA game I purchased was DOA2:Hardcore. I tried one of the later ones (3?) at a friend's place and wasn't impressed enough to buy it. I remember people talking about the jiggling, and how if you set your age to 99 it was supposed to become even more exaggerated, but that wasn't why I played the game.

I played the game because I enjoyed the fighting mechanics. It was one of those rare games where you could actually play it, as a trained martial artist, and destroy button mashers every single time. Gone were the days of being stomped by an opponent who picked a certain character and just beat the hell out of two buttons to victory, or playing a JKD guy who has to rely on stringing backflip kicks together most of the time...

Instead of fireballs, hurricane kicks, and teleport spears, you get a variety of punches, kicks, throws and grapples. The system was very combo friendly, without being as gimmicky/glitchy about it as your Killer Instincts of yore. You can, and thanks to the countering option, need, to vary your attacks.

Of course, another reason that game has such a fond place in my memory is that it was one of my first PS2 games, and I played it a lot with friends who were into fighting games.

I had a friend over a couple of weeks ago, and we played DOA2 for the first time in years and still had a blast with it.

The game has always been guilty of that anime trend of putting innocent childlike faces on top of "mature" body types. If they re-skinned the game (which they won't) to make everyone realistic, appear to be the age they are supposed to be, and normally proportioned - I would still play it, if the fighting mechanics were there.

Hearing that they are planning to further inflate what have always bordered on the ridiculous makes me think I'll be giving this new one a pass. After all, if that were all I wanted from it, I could just go sew a couple of volley balls to my wooden training dummy and be done with it.

canadamus_prime:
I know I'm in the minority here, but I find huge breasts a big turn off. I suppose that's partially why I've never played any of the Dead or Alive games.

Me neither. I find large breasts unattractive. Irritated my girlfriend, who had breasts large enough that they were ACTIVELY KILLING HER.

Though I played DOA4, and it is one of my favorite fighting game series'. Simple to learn, hard to master, without as many broken mechanics as certain others... MVC3...

O Japan...

SPOONY: In Dead or Alive, Newton's Laws do not apply to breasts.

Seriously, they don't "act" normally, thus being abnormal and not attractive. While I think listening to fans is a good idea for developers in some cases like they should following Ninja Gaiden 3, I'm going to disagree for this.

KeyMaster45:

"We actually got a lot of feedback from people who were playing it, saying, 'We want bigger breasts. Make the characters more like that.' That was kind of surprising."

No...that's not creepy feedback at all. Call the plastic surgeons and get me an industrial strength car jack; we've got chests augment.

Not so much creepy as it is kinda sad. And yeah,I get the reasoning here,and while I like staring at large boobs myself,(I'm a straight guy,after all) but you start

Zombie_Moogle:

Evil Smurf:
I like boobs more then the next guy, but if I want to watch big boobs I will watch porn.

Pretty much beat me to the punch on this one.

I can't say that voluptuous character models bother me, per se; frankly, It'd put a smile on my face if this/games in general, when making a sexy/sexualized female character, put a little more junk in the trunk. What can I say? I'm a heterosexual male & I like women.

That said...
I genuinely hope that Yohei Shimbori is just missing the real reason why his last game bombed, & that he didn't actually get a hurricane of emails telling him that EVEN MORE UNREALISTIC TITS is what the fans of the series really want (you know, as opposed to a better game)

I'm not sure if this is another example of a developer of a franchise losing touch with the fans and community/what made the first game great/reality, or if I should lose even less faith in the fighting game community itself; because as much as it pains me to say this (I used to hustle Smash Bros tournaments), I can't say I'd be terribly surprised by either

You and me both. I'm not much of a fighting game guy myself,but the way Matt(or is it Pat?) of Assist Me shows how the mechanics work,the pros and cons of the characters,things like that, interest me. I've played and enjoyed the entirety of the SSB games,and got pretty good on SSBB at one point as well. I get DOA's place in the industry,but I sometimes question whether it's a good or bad place. yeah,I like boobs just as much as the next straight guy,but it's just not my thing.

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