Minecraft Creator Won't Support Windows 8

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silverbullet1989:
would someone mind explaining to me why windows 8 is going to be so bad? not that im interested in switching over to it, windows 7 is just too good in my opinion. Are microsoft trying to make windows 8 locked down like xbox live?

Apparently so. I was under the impression that only Metro apps would need certification.

Could someone help me out here. Whats so bad about Windows 8 again?

Rainboq:

silverbullet1989:

FEichinger:

Metro Launch Screen which effectively splits the whole thing into two seperate interfaces, Accounts tied to Windows Live, Software Store forcing similarly expensive certification as for the XBOX. Oh, and it's totally designed for tablets, while it is a desktop OS.

Of course, Minecraft will work the same way as it used to, as a non-certified desktop application. But it shows a "OHMAHGAWD IT'S NOT CERTIFIED, IT MIGHT BE MALWARE!!!!!" message, unless you switch them off, and Microsoft could choose to just plain refuse to allow installing them whenever they like.

Right now I'm glad I'm running Linux and Gaming support is growing.

Thanks for clearing that up... but im curious as to the certification cost which is similar to that of xbox live, does that mean a developer has to pay royalties to Microsoft in order for them to host their product? and would that entail the god awful patch / update process the consoles have to endure? where by a developer has to pay for a patch to go into the certification process before becoming available to download for the general public?

Certification is around the ballpark of 40,000 USD.

No it is not. Certification does require a Microsoft developer license fee, which Mojang already has(with Xbox 360 version of Minecraft).

Baldr:

Rainboq:

silverbullet1989:

Thanks for clearing that up... but im curious as to the certification cost which is similar to that of xbox live, does that mean a developer has to pay royalties to Microsoft in order for them to host their product? and would that entail the god awful patch / update process the consoles have to endure? where by a developer has to pay for a patch to go into the certification process before becoming available to download for the general public?

Certification is around the ballpark of 40,000 USD.

No it is not. Certification does require a Microsoft developer license fee, which Mojang already has(with Xbox 360 version of Minecraft).

...and how much is this license?

Let me get this straight....

Microsoft reached out to Notch, offering to help him get certified for the new OS. Notch says no. Notch then, after declining Microsofts offer to bend over backwards to bet his game certified, runs around screaming about how much the new operating system sucks.

This screams childish asshole to me.

Not only that, but this certification feature already exists in Windows 7. There is a prompt warning users with confirmation before they open an uncertified driver or program.

Baldr:

Rainboq:

silverbullet1989:

Thanks for clearing that up... but im curious as to the certification cost which is similar to that of xbox live, does that mean a developer has to pay royalties to Microsoft in order for them to host their product? and would that entail the god awful patch / update process the consoles have to endure? where by a developer has to pay for a patch to go into the certification process before becoming available to download for the general public?

Certification is around the ballpark of 40,000 USD.

No it is not. Certification does require a Microsoft developer license fee, which Mojang already has(with Xbox 360 version of Minecraft).

Then why is that the figure being tossed around by the devs of Fez?

Notice how it's only the two biggest PRIVATE game developers (that's no-corporate-share-holders-to-please to those uninitiated) that have dared speak up?

One of the benefits of being privately owned is that they can take a moral stand without their soulless corporate overlords ordering them into silence lest they rock the boat or risk hurting the almighty bottom line.

Might try Linux on my next machine out of principal alone. I'll take the word of Gabe and Notch over Microsoft any day.

DVS BSTrD:
They seem to agree that Window 8 provides an unpleasant vista into the future of PC gaming

Still, you have to agree that, looking at the success of iOS and Android, Windows 8 is an operating system for the new millennium. Then again, the lukewarm reception of the Zune and Windows Phone 7 may indicate that Microsoft just doesn't have the right kind of XP to tackle the mobile market.

Microsoft is moving to close the operating system. Is everyone here really so gung-ho about having a Microsoft App store built into their OS? I am not. The tablet and phone versions will be closed, meaning only Microsoft approved software will run on it and the whole Metro part of Windows 8 is going to be the same thing. No one seems to be bringing this up much though.

I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is about Windows 8. From what I've heard, it's just Windows 7 with a redesigned, simplified UI for stupids. In fact, I've heard that you can turn off enough options to effectively turn it back into Windows 7.

Crono1973:

Baldr:

Rainboq:
Certification is around the ballpark of 40,000 USD.

No it is not. Certification does require a Microsoft developer license fee, which Mojang already has(with Xbox 360 version of Minecraft).

...and how much is this license?

$50/Individual & $100/Company(per year) with game revenues on the Microsoft system under $25,000. After $25,000 Microsoft gets in touch with your company and works out finer details, which can get complicated. Microsoft has the option to waive fees under certain conditions, I know this because our fee got waived for the first year(It helped we won the Microsoft Imagine Cup Game Dev Competition)

Rainboq:

Baldr:

Rainboq:
Certification is around the ballpark of 40,000 USD.

No it is not. Certification does require a Microsoft developer license fee, which Mojang already has(with Xbox 360 version of Minecraft).

Then why is that the figure being tossed around by the devs of Fez?

That was for a recertification of a game with revenue over $25,000. I don't know if his developer license had past or there are penalties for recertification, we haven't run into that issue yet. But any game I know of as long as you have the license can certify a game for free.

Mygaffer:
Microsoft is moving to close the operating system. Is everyone here really so gung-ho about having a Microsoft App store built into their OS? I am not. The tablet and phone versions will be closed, meaning only Microsoft approved software will run on it and the whole Metro part of Windows 8 is going to be the same thing. No one seems to be bringing this up much though.

Every tablet and phone out there already does this. Apple, android, you name it.

The PC version will not be restricted to the store. You can still add regular, non-store windows applications and games to the metro interface. There is also a version of the Surface that will have full Windows functionality.

Not many bring it up because most running the release preview will tell you that there really is no change in functionality aside from a learning curve with the new UI.

Nocturnus:

Mygaffer:
Microsoft is moving to close the operating system. Is everyone here really so gung-ho about having a Microsoft App store built into their OS? I am not. The tablet and phone versions will be closed, meaning only Microsoft approved software will run on it and the whole Metro part of Windows 8 is going to be the same thing. No one seems to be bringing this up much though.

Every tablet and phone out there already does this. Apple, android, you name it.

The PC version will not be restricted to the store. You can still add regular, non-store windows applications and games to the metro interface. There is also a version of the Surface that will have full Windows functionality.

Not many bring it up because most running the release preview will tell you that there really is no change in functionality aside from a learning curve with the new UI.

These are the first steps to a completely closed system. Why should my accounts be tied to their Live service? Why should I not have the option to remove their branded store from my OS? Why should apps not certified by them (read, paid money to MS) have warnings when I try to run them? This is ridiculous. If everyone just swallows this I guarantee you Windows 9 will be even more closed down with no traditional desktop at all. Hell, they'll probably even require TPM for Windows 9.

We need anti-trust litigation NOW.

Belated:
I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is about Windows 8. From what I've heard, it's just Windows 7 with a redesigned, simplified UI for stupids. In fact, I've heard that you can turn off enough options to effectively turn it back into Windows 7.

Everything else aside it makes you wonder why one would need to buy Windows 8, doesn't it?

Baldr:

Crono1973:

Baldr:

No it is not. Certification does require a Microsoft developer license fee, which Mojang already has(with Xbox 360 version of Minecraft).

...and how much is this license?

$50/Individual & $100/Company(per year) with game revenues on the Microsoft system under $25,000. After $25,000 Microsoft gets in touch with your company and works out finer details, which can get complicated. Microsoft has the option to waive fees under certain conditions, I know this because our fee got waived for the first year(It helped we won the Microsoft Imagine Cup Game Dev Competition)

Sounds like a mess considering devs could just release a game on PC without all that hassle.

RandV80:

Belated:
I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is about Windows 8. From what I've heard, it's just Windows 7 with a redesigned, simplified UI for stupids. In fact, I've heard that you can turn off enough options to effectively turn it back into Windows 7.

Everything else aside it makes you wonder why one would need to buy Windows 8, doesn't it?

Yup. And that's why I decided not to when I designed my new rig. Who needs to wait for 8 to come out when 7 is delicious on its own? Heck, even XP still rocks.

Well, according to the alternating rule of Windows releases (every other Windows version is crap) Windows 8 was going to suck anyway.

Johnson McGee:
Well, according to the alternating rule of Windows releases (every other Windows version is crap) Windows 8 was going to suck anyway.

Do people ever grow tired of posting this?

It's like this, the alternating rule can be viewed in different ways depending on if you include NT OS's prior to XP. It really is tiring to see someone let something silly like this make up their mind for them.

Maybe Win 8 is a bad OS and guess what, maybe Win 9 will be too. I mean, if you just refuse to give Win 8 a chance because of this alternating BS, doesn't that mean that you will be buying Win 9 on Day 1, no questions asked?

See how ridiculous it is?

GAunderrated:
Well now we have both Gabe and Notch saying screw windows 8. I hope many other developers/publishers also follow suit once they realize just how bad it would be for PC gaming.

Hopefully they'll switch to linux....well valve is starting to support it at least.

Also relevant, apparently Windows 8 has some sort of "Authentication" process that prevents dual booting OS's.

Just the very fact that Notch would have to work with Microsoft to make sure that Minecraft is certified to run on Windows 8 speaks to how it won't be a very open system. We might be getting a distorted one-sided view of things, but if being certified on an OS only meant buying a license, then they would not be needing to call people in to work on certification.

It might just be that Microsoft is just adding it's own program store, but they'd be silly not to close off their system in tandem. Steam is already running strong, and there are even other ways to buy digital games. Unless Microsoft's store is really innovative, then it'll just be redundant and not used unless they close the OS.

But then, they'd get sued, I guess. Apple's been doing this, but has always been. Microsoft turning into a closed OS would be removing a large...

...oh wait, I still use XP. Thppppt :P

Waaghpowa:

GAunderrated:
Well now we have both Gabe and Notch saying screw windows 8. I hope many other developers/publishers also follow suit once they realize just how bad it would be for PC gaming.

Hopefully they'll switch to linux....well valve is starting to support it at least.

Also relevant, apparently Windows 8 has some sort of "Authentication" process that prevents dual booting OS's.

Well, I have it dual booted with Vista on one machine and had it dual booted with 7 on another. Maybe there is something in the final release but right now, it works fine with dual boot.

Crono1973:

Baldr:

Crono1973:

...and how much is this license?

$50/Individual & $100/Company(per year) with game revenues on the Microsoft system under $25,000. After $25,000 Microsoft gets in touch with your company and works out finer details, which can get complicated. Microsoft has the option to waive fees under certain conditions, I know this because our fee got waived for the first year(It helped we won the Microsoft Imagine Cup Game Dev Competition)

Sounds like a mess considering devs could just release a game on PC without all that hassle.

The license also allows developers to certify and release games on Win Phone and XBLA. There is no real reason to certify a game for Win8 unless your going to release it on Win8 app store, or you already have the license and want to make sure it works with Win8.

Gods, Windows 8. My problem with Windows 8 starts years ago, actually. Mid-XP era I think. A friend of mine was telling me about Microsoft's new initiative to make you pay for your Microsoft software monthly or yearly, like your Internet or cable.

You know Office 365? They were pitching that to IT people before "the cloud" became a marketing meme. How to make a room full of IT people extremely angry: Sell them something like proto-365 was pitched. They sold it to the IT guys like they sold it to the CIOs, and the IT guys saw all the problems. They realized software-as-a-service would make make licensing issues worse, backups uncontrollable, downtime an even bigger emergency because you can't even make Powerpoint presentations or print a file while waiting for the Internet to come up, offer several fewer nines than Microsoft's current product, remove ability to control when upgrades and UI changes happen, cost more over the life of a PC, and so on.

But then someone invented "the cloud" and Microsoft jumped on it with SkyDrive and 365 as fast as Ballmer's behemoth can do anything.

And now we get to Windows 8. Make a Microsoft login! Your apps and data will follow you between machines! Your desktop looks like your laptop looks like your phone looks like your tablet! Get on Microsoft's bad side and maybe it ALL GOES AWAY! Ain't it grand?

Office 365 was the opening salvo in their attempts to make software a service charge like your Internet connection is, with the same punishment if you miss a payment. Windows 8 is the next one.

Matthew94:

John the Gamer:
Isn't it Microsoft's tradition to screw up every other OS?

2000=Good, ME=Bad, XP=Good, Vista=Bad, Win7=Good, Win8=Bad

Well, more or less. I'm not an expert on such things. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is; NO ONE SHOULD BE SURPRISED. AT ALL.

It's actually more complex than that.

XP = Bad, XP SP2 = good, Vista = Bad, Vista SP1 = Good, W7 = good

and so on

As I said; not an expert. And I wouldn't call Vista anywhere above 'decent enough' with or without Service Pack.

Baldr:

Crono1973:

Baldr:

$50/Individual & $100/Company(per year) with game revenues on the Microsoft system under $25,000. After $25,000 Microsoft gets in touch with your company and works out finer details, which can get complicated. Microsoft has the option to waive fees under certain conditions, I know this because our fee got waived for the first year(It helped we won the Microsoft Imagine Cup Game Dev Competition)

Sounds like a mess considering devs could just release a game on PC without all that hassle.

The license also allows developers to certify and release games on Win Phone and XBLA. There is no real reason to certify a game for Win8 unless your going to release it on Win8 app store, or you already have the license and want to make sure it works with Win8.

Licensing a game on Win 8 seems to be a conditioning tool for now, get devs used to it because in the future it won't be optional. I am against turning PC's into consoles.

The Microsoft digital distribution store that will come with Win8 isn't the only bad thing about this OS.

I've watched a preview video on youtube where a guy tries out Win8 on his desktop PC,and he showed that the way you control things in it is like iOS or something. It's basically an OS made with touchscreens in mind,not mice. And thus instead of windows having the usual buttons like -,the rectangular and X,to close,minimize etc,you have to replicate the gestures you would do in a touchscreen with your mouse pointer/arrow instead your finger,which makes it just awkward and confusing. But even though if you watch a tutorial and memorize what gestures do what, what it ultimately does is adding extra steps to the procedures someone could do easier and faster. That's not a good point really.

The other thing I noticed is that Win8 lacks features that would make me want to buy it. I mean I haven't learned of any thing that I can only do with Win8 and not with another Windows version yet. Windows 7 was a worthy upgrade as it supports things past versions don't,like SSD trim, directX 11,etc. Win8 is only trying to sell because of its GUI,which is a hit or miss,and personally I don't like the new GUI. Even if I liked it though,there's plenty of GUI customization options available for Win7,which means you can really make them look quite like you would like,if you use some third party software. Win 8 lacks selling points for me.

The last but not least thing I don't like is that they took already known old apps and functions and placed them elsewhere. So to do in Win8 a function that I know how to do in Win7, I will need to spend time to re-learn how to do it. Which I don't like,it will slow my workflow. Why to have to learn a new way to do things I already know how to do them ?

:/

Stavros Dimou:
The Microsoft digital distribution store that will come with Win8 isn't the only bad thing about this OS.

I've watched a preview video on youtube where a guy tries out Win8 on his desktop PC,and he showed that the way you control things in it is like iOS or something. It's basically an OS made with touchscreens in mind,not mice. And thus instead of windows having the usual buttons like -,the rectangular and X,to close,minimize etc,you have to replicate the gestures you would do in a touchscreen with your mouse pointer/arrow instead your finger,which makes it just awkward and confusing. But even though if you watch a tutorial and memorize what gestures do what, what it ultimately does is adding extra steps to the procedures someone could do easier and faster. That's not a good point really.

:/

To close a program you have to grab the top and pull it to the bottom. It's not hard but it's also not as easy as hitting the red X.

Fasckira:
If anything I cant help but feel Notch has been a bit ungrateful here; MS bent over backwards to ensure Minecraft got onto Live (essentially the same thing Windows 8 will be touting), even giving him all that 0-day sales information and stuff. Here they've gone out their way to say, "Look mate, we're doing this on 8 too, would you like to set up getting it approved?" and hes suddenly too good for Microsoft now? Meh.

Microsoft did that for them self, not for Notch or anyone else.
Minecraft sold like mad and MS knew that would happen. The ensured that the biggest indie title will be exclusive for their console (PC not included). They earn on the sales, on the skin sales, soon on the texture pack sales. They will probably start soon to require Mojang to make DLC's instead of free updates.

So no, Notch should not be grateful. Porting Minecraft to the 360 was pure business and both sides earned money on that. Neither side did they because they wanted to be good.

Crono1973:

Johnson McGee:
Well, according to the alternating rule of Windows releases (every other Windows version is crap) Windows 8 was going to suck anyway.

Do people ever grow tired of posting this?

It's like this, the alternating rule can be viewed in different ways depending on if you include NT OS's prior to XP. It really is tiring to see someone let something silly like this make up their mind for them.

Maybe Win 8 is a bad OS and guess what, maybe Win 9 will be too. I mean, if you just refuse to give Win 8 a chance because of this alternating BS, doesn't that mean that you will be buying Win 9 on Day 1, no questions asked?

See how ridiculous it is?

Jeez man, I was joking. I'll examine Win 8 on its own merits when it's released.

Personally, I think Windows is in a good niche right now between the openness of Linux and the user friendliness of Mac and they'll get slaughtered if they try to be more like one or the other. I just want to use a computer without having to learn a new programming language or having to let Mommy Apple take my hand so I wont get hurt.

OT: I'm totally on Notch's side here. We're just getting into the swing of independent developers being able to produce really good stuff, not just games but productivity software and other things too, and tying that up in a bunch of red tape or fees is really the wrong way to go.

Johnson McGee:

Crono1973:

Johnson McGee:
Well, according to the alternating rule of Windows releases (every other Windows version is crap) Windows 8 was going to suck anyway.

Do people ever grow tired of posting this?

It's like this, the alternating rule can be viewed in different ways depending on if you include NT OS's prior to XP. It really is tiring to see someone let something silly like this make up their mind for them.

Maybe Win 8 is a bad OS and guess what, maybe Win 9 will be too. I mean, if you just refuse to give Win 8 a chance because of this alternating BS, doesn't that mean that you will be buying Win 9 on Day 1, no questions asked?

See how ridiculous it is?

Jeez man, I was joking. I'll examine Win 8 on its own merits when it's released.

Personally, I think Windows is in a good niche right now between the openness of Linux and the user friendliness of Mac and they'll get slaughtered if they try to be more like one or the other. I just want to use a computer without having to learn a new programming language or having to let Mommy Apple take my hand so I wont get hurt.

OT: I'm totally on Notch's side here. We're just getting into the swing of independent developers being able to produce really good stuff, not just games but productivity software and other things too, and tying that up in a bunch of red tape or fees is really the wrong way to go.

I wasn't ONLY talking to you but in every topic about Windows 8 someone says this. It has gotten old.

I am on Notch's side here too. Why pay Microsoft or ask for Microsoft permission (a license) to release a game.

Just another reason for me to stick to XP for another year or two before getting Windows 7.

Don't they understand? This is the Windows formula. Good OS - Bad OS - Repeat.

Windows 3.1: Good.
Windows 95: Bad.
Windows 98: Good.
Windows ME: BAD.
Windows XP: Very good.
Windows Vista: Sweet jesus...
Windows 7: Good.
Windows 8...

Just sayin.

I have 7 now. Works damn well for me. Not switching.

This whole thing about Win8 possibly having an in-built store and needing "certification" to let you run 3rd party software without bothering around a Microsoft malware warning brings up an interesting topic I haven't thought about. Should the government(specifically the US, I'm just gonna stay local here) be regulating computer technology in some way? The internet has become an integral part of many people's lives, and many important businesses would be destroyed if it was suddenly taken away from them. The internet is no longer a place where only technologically advanced geeks can understand what everything does, it's an integral part of most of the developed world.
So, if Microsoft hypothetically decided to only allow officially certified software on, lets say Windows 9, and offered to allow 3rd party software only if the owners of that software payed a fee and went through the screening process, that would seriously cripple many businesses and would cause havoc. Let's just assume that either Microsoft is somehow the only reliable computer company by the time this Windows 9 comes out or all other computer developers have also implemented this change.
Think how the government realized that cars were an incredibly important invention and made lots of rules concerning how they are made and sold to the public. Seeing as how the computer, and it's access to the internet and whatever software the user desires is now so very important to the lives of everyone who uses it, should the government be implementing laws concerning it?

I'm having agood time using Win 7, in my mind it's their best OS so far. I used XP before that, skipped Vista because I did not enjoy it at all. I had no plans to buy Win 8 even before people started flailing about how horrible it is, but to be honest I'm not even sure what makes it horrible. I've been lazy, as I often am, and not bothered reading up on it...

I actually thought Win 8 wasn't intended for PCs but rather things such as touch phones and tablets similar to the iPad. Clearly I was very wrong! Serves me right I guess, for not being updated on matters of technology.

tehweave:
Don't they understand? This is the Windows formula. Good OS - Bad OS - Repeat.

Windows 3.1: Good.
Windows 95: Bad.
Windows 98: Good.
Windows ME: BAD.
Windows XP: Very good.
Windows Vista: Sweet jesus...
Windows 7: Good.
Windows 8...

Just sayin.

I have 7 now. Works damn well for me. Not switching.

Yeah, this stuff! I went from 98 to XP to 7 and I've had a good time! I never even thought about stopping by the ones between actually, 98 lasted fine until Xp and I was even heistating before switching from Xp to 7 because I enjoyed Xp so much! 7 is great though...

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