Angry Minnesotans Take 3D Printer Away From Gunmaker

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DugMachine:

The Plunk:

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Okay do I have to be the one to point out the wedding dress. Lolwat

Don't worry I was thoroughly confused by it too. And then I saw the guy on the right who I thought have smeared his face in blue paint, and immediately then thought of Tobias from Arrested Development.

image

Frontastic:

The world by Dead Rising logic. A truly scary future awaits humanity.

Perfect! I'll get the "massager" launcher ready!

image

Perhaps they can make me a fuck to give to the people who are pro gun. I don't have any you see.

Plastic guns? Really?

If I really wanted to do violence I'd be making bomb casings....That looked like whatever I wanted.

Not to mention the opportunities for smuggling.

That video is a strong example of decent advertisment being undermined by downright shitty acting on the part of un-trained participants. I.e all of them.

ravenshrike:

In America there are various forms you have to send to the ATF before you can make some kinds of firearm

Sorry Adam, but this is very, very wrong. Unless it is an NFA weapon or a full auto, no paperwork is needed. And for NFA weapons you just fill out the Form 1 on the BATFE's site and 200 dollars later you can make one. Can't make full-auto's though.

In any case, a single shot .22lr pistol, what they were trying to make, needs no paperwork. The fun part is gonna be when Cody Wilson sues that pants off of Stratasys for violating the terms of the lease.

Also, I would like to point out that Stratasys is the functional equivalent of a cross between the worst DRM and vendor lockdown attributes of Apple and Microsoft put together in the 3D printer world.

Well said. I pray for the day that Americans can, once again, follow their dreams without having too jump through legal hoops.

I mean, it would be one thing if what they were doing was illegal, But its not. As much as some on this site might claim otherwise. It is really not illegal, I could do it today, if it was not for the fact that I prefer too buy my firearms from people that know more about engineering then me.

Geo Da Sponge:

"We look to inspire and defend those who live (and are threatened to live) under politically oppressive regimes. Firearm Rights are Human Rights."

I don't want to get into the broader gun debate, but... He does realise that if something is a human right, then literally every human gets it? Including children and the mentally ill?

Though to be fair to him it's hard to find a phrase to describe Rights that apply to everyone apart from those who are incapable of benefiting from them.

I feel like I am pointing out the obvious but, the bigger picture is the right to defend one's self. He is focusing on guns to accomplish that, and his statement wasn't exclusionary of children or the mentally ill. That is where all gun debates seem to break down is not understanding this very basic principle. Guns are about the broader spectrum ability to defend yourself, mostly against people with guns.

I find the most interesting aspect to be the attention subjects like this actually get.. I mean, you take the death by gun rate in a country like America, and it's not a small number. But it pales into insignificance compared to auto accidents, work place deaths, and so on. It's from what is called an availability cascade. A thread like this produces a lot of statistics (some good and some not so good), and it creates a set of events where people end up with recall and discussion of things that is central to their thoughts. You get the same thing with the war on terror.

As a side note, I am just making observations about this subject. I have no interest what so ever in picking a side because at the end, neither side is explicitly right or wrong.

Frontastic:
Plastic guns... would that even work? Like yeah BB guns etc are fine but if we're talking real, dangerous guns wouldn't plastic ones just shatter when fired?

Many of the parts of the Glock are made of a plastic polymer, but I'm not sure if that counts.

Lucane:

ravenshrike:

Lucane:

So they want to make it easier for anyone to make the things needed to make the "real" guns by anyone with a high end printer? to then be able to make any number of real guns?

That was the ultimate goal. This specific project was meant as more of a proof of concept. After all, if they could do it at all, then they could see what exactly needed to be improved and how the printer and it's material might need to change. Not to mention 3d home printing is just starting to hit it's stride. Who knows what's going to be possible in a decade.

Sorry but I can only think of negative implications of being able to reproduce guns in this regard for illegal purposes in black markets or personal crime/criminal groups.

The positives are great but they're already working on that before Defense Distributed wanted to get involved.

they already do.

Criminals already have military grade weapons, some criminal organizations arm their entire organization with them.

Printed guns will add nothing that criminals don't already have. Besides, when you sling drugs to the biggest addicts on earth, money is already no object.

What does this have to do with Minnesota again?

Saucycarpdog:

Frontastic:
Plastic guns... would that even work? Like yeah BB guns etc are fine but if we're talking real, dangerous guns wouldn't plastic ones just shatter when fired?

Many of the parts of the Glock are made of a plastic polymer, but I'm not sure if that counts.

It does.
It may come as a shock to many (at least 1/3 of the commenters on this tread) 3D printers can do other materials that cheap plastic.
Right now i am actually consulting a small 3D print company, and altough they mainly work in hardened plastics (a bit tougher than the stuff lego uses) they can produce in a wide variety of materials.
Some of those materials include metals for tools, moulding and machine parts.
Basicly, if the material can be melts, it can be made in a 3D printer, so making a functioning gun would not be a problem at all.

And yes i know those printers are too exspencive for the avarage consumer to buy, but so was the plastic printer not 5 years ago.

Who the FUCK thought it would be a good idea to print off guns?

Andy Shandy:

Frontastic:

The world by Dead Rising logic. A truly scary future awaits humanity.

Perfect! I'll get the "massager" launcher ready!

image

Ok, never played Off the Record but good god that was a thing in there?? Come on Capcom, you guys used to have some class (I stress the 'some'). What is this, Saints Row?

You can have your fling-er of depravity sir! I for one look forward to this new age humanity for the easy access to lightsabres we'll all have.

Didn't read all the comments, but I'm horrified by to read the OP's story. Such a weapon would be any criminal's dream.

I know it doesn't count for all of you, but it has to be said; Americans have a very, very unhealthy view when it comes to gun laws. It seems like you think everything can be solved as long as you have your gun. Why don't you start having mandatory gun lessons in primary school while you're at it? I'm quite sure that will help you all feel safe. More guns, more freedom! *sigh*

Seems like a rather simplistic way of replicating weapons.

Frontastic:
Plastic guns... would that even work? Like yeah BB guns etc are fine but if we're talking real, dangerous guns wouldn't plastic ones just shatter when fired?

I remember a while back a guy made a replica of an AK out of paper that worked, last time I checked he had got it to fire and cycle rounds.

Blackdoom:
Seems like a rather simplistic way of replicating weapons.

Frontastic:
Plastic guns... would that even work? Like yeah BB guns etc are fine but if we're talking real, dangerous guns wouldn't plastic ones just shatter when fired?

I remember a while back a guy made a replica of an AK out of paper that worked, last time I checked he had got it to fire and cycle rounds.

That's... rather frightening. Any war in 20/30 years should be pretty interesting...

Frontastic:

Blackdoom:
Seems like a rather simplistic way of replicating weapons.

Frontastic:
Plastic guns... would that even work? Like yeah BB guns etc are fine but if we're talking real, dangerous guns wouldn't plastic ones just shatter when fired?

I remember a while back a guy made a replica of an AK out of paper that worked, last time I checked he had got it to fire and cycle rounds.

That's... rather frightening. Any war in 20/30 years should be pretty interesting...

In the future all wars are thought using weapons made out of paper and plastic going up against paper planes giving aerial support and tanks made out of paper mache

It's a small wonder that they even thought printed guns would change things. More bullets flying does not equate to increased safety. Owning a gun is a hefty responsibility, and the way in which they approached it assumed it was everyone's right to own a piece.

I'm sorry, I wouldn't give a gun, not even a plastic one, to someone who's on antipsychotics, who has a criminal past, a history of violence or a tendency towards self-harm.

A society where everyone has a firearm, right down to kids, wouldn't be any safer than a society where these objects are beholden to individuals who have a duty and function to go with these weapons.

Zombie_Moogle:
That image right there is the perfect argument in favor of Defense Distributed. Smart money says the next village that group rolls into will wish it had the means to better arm itself.
For better or worse, guns exist. People, in our species-old tradition of self-destruction, like to kill each other & will do so for fun or profit. All we've done in our history is go from "the biggest caveman gets w/e he wants" to "the best armed guy gets what he wants". Sad but true. While I truly wish it were not so, the only way we as humans have of redressing this is to match it.
What else can I say? Humans are nuts. Gotta do what you gotta do to survive

If they can't afford a few hundred Dollars for a dozen of the AKM's that Africa is awash with, the certainly wouldn't be able to afford the tens of thousands of Dollars for the lease on a 3D printer capable of printing weapon parts.

Karloff:
"WikiWep is about challenging gun control and regulation," says its FAQ. "We look to inspire and defend those who live (and are threatened to live) under politically oppressive regimes. Firearm Rights are Human Rights."

instead of taking the toys away they should have jailed them. the people are obviously criminally insane.

Also, this wouldnt work. the kinetic force of the bulelt firing would:
1: melt the plastic around the explosion that propels the bulelt
2: blow up the gun due to rapid gas expansion.
result: melted plastic exploding into perpetrators face, while the bullet not moving or moving at such velocity that it cant do any harm.

-Dragmire-:
Having a cheap plastic gun that looks identical to a real one may create serious problems. I am against using the tech for this purpose.

Those already exist, and they don't create many problems at all. Airsoft has been around since the mid-to-late 80s.

Strazdas:

Karloff:
"WikiWep is about challenging gun control and regulation," says its FAQ. "We look to inspire and defend those who live (and are threatened to live) under politically oppressive regimes. Firearm Rights are Human Rights."

instead of taking the toys away they should have jailed them. the people are obviously criminally insane.

Also, this wouldnt work. the kinetic force of the bulelt firing would:
1: melt the plastic around the explosion that propels the bulelt
2: blow up the gun due to rapid gas expansion.
result: melted plastic exploding into perpetrators face, while the bullet not moving or moving at such velocity that it cant do any harm.

Have you ever used a 3D printer? You can print with some VERY high quality resins. A plastic gun could be made to work. There are some VERY strong resins out there that could be used in a 3D printer.

They aren't criminally insane either. They are just attempting to take a new technology in a new direction. Do you really think the ability to print plastic gun parts will really change anything? People can already manufacture firearms out of pipes and any number of common parts.

tsb247:

-Dragmire-:
Having a cheap plastic gun that looks identical to a real one may create serious problems. I am against using the tech for this purpose.

Those already exist, and they don't create many problems at all. Airsoft has been around since the mid-to-late 80s.

Hmmm... Maybe I'm talking out of my ass then, I could have sworn realistic fake weaponry was illegal for conventional sale.

I agree with the people who confiscated the printer the a plastic gun would just help criminals way too much to be a good idea right now..

-Dragmire-:

tsb247:

-Dragmire-:
Having a cheap plastic gun that looks identical to a real one may create serious problems. I am against using the tech for this purpose.

Those already exist, and they don't create many problems at all. Airsoft has been around since the mid-to-late 80s.

Hmmm... Maybe I'm talking out of my ass then, I could have sworn realistic fake weaponry was illegal for conventional sale.

Where do you live? In the US, realistic guns toy might not be "banned" few make them because they are afraid of being sued by the kids family after the kid thought it would be funny too pull the fake gun on the police, and then gets shot.

I can buy "training aids" that look like real knifes, but are rubber, the same is true for firearms (though they are painted a strange color, they can easily be repainted).

Finally, these were not being made or sold as "toys" but real working firearms. I know its been said but, in the US, it is not Illegal. In fact Stratasys might be breaking the law (not criminal, but Civil law) and are setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

I know people worry that once something gets invented then the bad guys will start too use it. But everyone is forgetting that one, springs cannot be made of plastic and all firearms need some type of spring. and two, nothing is stopping the baddies from doing this now. Setup fake company, lease 3D printer, give printer too baddies, fake company disappears, middle-finger too everyone.

Gilhelmi:

-Dragmire-:

tsb247:

Those already exist, and they don't create many problems at all. Airsoft has been around since the mid-to-late 80s.

Hmmm... Maybe I'm talking out of my ass then, I could have sworn realistic fake weaponry was illegal for conventional sale.

Where do you live? In the US, realistic guns toy might not be "banned" few make them because they are afraid of being sued by the kids family after the kid thought it would be funny too pull the fake gun on the police, and then gets shot.

I can buy "training aids" that look like real knifes, but are rubber, the same is true for firearms (though they are painted a strange color, they can easily be repainted).

Finally, these were not being made or sold as "toys" but real working firearms. I know its been said but, in the US, it is not Illegal. In fact Stratasys might be breaking the law (not criminal, but Civil law) and are setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

I know people worry that once something gets invented then the bad guys will start too use it. But everyone is forgetting that one, springs cannot be made of plastic and all firearms need some type of spring. and two, nothing is stopping the baddies from doing this now. Setup fake company, lease 3D printer, give printer too baddies, fake company disappears, middle-finger too everyone.

I'm in Canada so it may or may not be the same and yeah, I was thinking of these fake guns being sold as toys.

Gilhelmi:

Well said. I pray for the day that Americans can, once again, follow their dreams without having too jump through legal hoops.

The issue here is the uncontrollable, untraceable nature of an underground weapons manufacturing cult. If you'd like to see your violent crime rate soar and shootings increase, no worries, but please, start wearing the clothing from Fallout first.

ResonanceSD:

Gilhelmi:

Well said. I pray for the day that Americans can, once again, follow their dreams without having too jump through legal hoops.

The issue here is the uncontrollable, untraceable nature of an underground weapons manufacturing cult. If you'd like to see your violent crime rate soar and shootings increase, no worries, but please, start wearing the clothing from Fallout first.

Y'know, it's funny, anti gunners always claim this will happen every time gun laws are loosened. Guns allowed in bars? The bars will be awash in blood. Shall issue or constituional carry enacted? The streets awash in blood. Carry in National Parks? The Parks awash in blood. Oddly enough, these predictions NEVER come to pass.

ravenshrike:
Y'know, it's funny, anti gunners always claim this will happen every time gun laws are loosened. Guns allowed in bars? The bars will be awash in blood. Shall issue or constituional carry enacted? The streets awash in blood. Carry in National Parks? The Parks awash in blood. Oddly enough, these predictions NEVER come to pass.

The difference between "you can carry a registered, tracked weapon" and "you can just go ahead and build your own guns" is the issue here. Accountability would be entirely lost.

ResonanceSD:

ravenshrike:
Y'know, it's funny, anti gunners always claim this will happen every time gun laws are loosened. Guns allowed in bars? The bars will be awash in blood. Shall issue or constituional carry enacted? The streets awash in blood. Carry in National Parks? The Parks awash in blood. Oddly enough, these predictions NEVER come to pass.

The difference between "you can carry a registered, tracked weapon" and "you can just go ahead and build your own guns" is the issue here. Accountability would be entirely lost.

Fun fact, it's perfectly legal to build your own unregistered weapon in the majority of the US as long as you don't sell it to anyone. All completely untracked. And plenty of people do so. Still no bloodbaths.

Zombie_Moogle:
While the implications & dangers associated with such a project are obvious, they have a definite point here. Imagine what it would be like if oppressed & impoverished parts of the world could cheaply & quickly develop the means to defend themselves. I can't help but wonder if such technology wouldn't help balance the scales in countries like Iran, Libya, Sudan, The Republic of The Congo

Yeah, great, good for them. Meanwhile, the sane, rational, non-continually-subject-to-mass-shootings developed nations like mine, who are perfectly happy living under the monstrous injustice(apparently) of gun control, will have to deal with crazy fuckaloons like these idiots printing off guns and killing people.

Seriously America, you need to deal with these inbred backwards hillpeople and their obsessive need to cram a firearm into the hands of every human alive the moment they emerge from the womb.

ravenshrike:
Fun fact, it's perfectly legal to build your own unregistered weapon in the majority of the US as long as you don't sell it to anyone. All completely untracked. And plenty of people do so. Still no bloodbaths.

Well, to a certain extent. You can't make a fully-automatic weapon and expect the police to not intervene when they find out about it. But yeah, as far as I know, most gun crimes that occur in the US are not done with homemade weapons.

Still, this situation puts Stratasys in a tough place legally, and I don't blame them at all for doing this. Private 3D printing is a very new technology with a lot of potential, and the last thing it needs right now is people getting all scared and acting on impulse to regulate it before we even understand the full extent of its uses. This isn't about whether or not printed guns would work, or whether or not Stratasys wants guns to be made with its technology. They just don't want the fed on their ass for aiding in the creation of unregulated firearms until the legal system has caught up with the technology.

Double post, sorry 'bout that.

Barrowman...

lowkey_jotunn:
The real problem here is that the "angry Minnisoteans" don't understand where to direct their vitriol. They want to slap the hands of anyone who is thinking about making something that might possibly be used for nefarious purposes. That's 3-generation missing the point.

How about we teach our kids that it's not OK to shoot someone, instead of trying to control every avenue by which someone can be shot.

Um...did you read the article? Stratasys never actually said if they want guns to be made with their 3D printer. They did this because the legal system hasn't caught up with technology, and they don't want the fed on their ass for what could be legally considered a machine that can manufacture firearms on a large-scale. Considering the amount of precision and the machine and its ability to make things multiple times over, there is quite a bit of difference between making a rudimentary gun with metal piping and the potential to make extremely precise parts for very sophisticated guns on a large-scale.

I'm for gun ownership as well, but I don't blame them at all for doing this. Regulations for 3D printing are bound to fall into place soon, and the last thing they need is for people to be over-regulating it out of fear because somebody thought it was a good idea to point out exactly how useful it is in making very precise parts for homemade guns. Also, they don't need legal fees and controversies from hearings and investigations putting them under.

My problem with this is that if these people are successful these weapons will fall into the hands of people we really don't want to have these weapons as well as people we want to have these weapons. A plastic handgun is the absolute perfect tool for an assassination, it's virtually undetectable, untraceable and could be produced in a matter of hours at a relatively low cost.

In a country where gun ownership is legal, owning a plastic handgun is basically an admission of guilt that you are about to commit a heinous crime. The reason for this is that if you are able to legally buy a handgun through the regular channels the only reason you would have a plastic handgun is to not take responsibility for firing it.

Zombie_Moogle:
While the implications & dangers associated with such a project are obvious, they have a definite point here. Imagine what it would be like if oppressed & impoverished parts of the world could cheaply & quickly develop the means to defend themselves. I can't help but wonder if such technology wouldn't help balance the scales in countries like Iran, Libya, Sudan, The Republic of The Congo

image

That image right there is the perfect argument in favor of Defense Distributed. Smart money says the next village that group rolls into will wish it had the means to better arm itself.

Best case scenario, they're able to kill a few more of them before they're completely decimated, a few plastic weapons would not be able to repel them. It would get more of them killed because they would be more confidant with a plastic gun than no gun. What I think it would do is teach the raiders to shoot earlier. Making everybody armed just makes everybody scared of everybody else, in a place like The Republic of The Congo or Sudan, it would mean that the unarmed people would never band together against the armed people because they are all armed. The communities protecting themselves with weapons would not know a raiding party from another community protecting itself with weapons. It would devolve into Day Z where the only option is shooting first. In places like the United States it works that people carry guns because we live in a society that is very non-violent by comparison.

ravenshrike:
Oddly enough, these predictions NEVER come to pass.

"On January 8, 2011, U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords and eighteen other people were shot during a public meeting held in a supermarket parking lot in Casas Adobes, near Tucson, Arizona. Six of those shot died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll; one of Rep. Giffords' staffers; and a nine-year-old child, Christina-Taylor Green. Giffords was holding a constituent meeting called "Congress on Your Corner" in the parking lot of a Safeway store when prosecutors allege Jared Lee Loughner drew a pistol and shot her in the head, subsequently firing on other people."

Extended magazines allowed? Supermarket's awash with blood.

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