Eurogamer Expo Bans Booth Babes

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Sleekit:
the 18+ section was separated off from the main show and the women were moved there until they covered up.

a private company running an event in a private arena can make any restrictions on who gets in it wants.

i know: i used to run raves and man the door.

so quit using the "freedom" argument.

or better still try it out when a bouncer stops you getting in a club...

The freedom argument is a part of this, but I will drop it because you just don't understand right now.

I understand that it is a private company doing this expo, but the point they run it is to make money from the traffic(admission prices and booth space charges as well). Running off companies and most likely attendees with there new rule will hurt them big time in the wallet.

There the main show was made up of many parts, and the 18+ section was a part of that.

As I said before, the only fault of the companies is that they didn't keep those girls in that section. That's the only place they would truly be useful any way. Though the expo people are downright stupid for banning booth babes altogether.

(typical boo-hoo, think of the children picture here)

To be fair, I think there should be some regulations on how people should cosplay at conventions. It used to be that you had a certain level of class with it that kept conventions family-friendly, now I wouldn't even take a kid to a Comic Con and would have to think about it for an anime convention. It's not that uncommon for people to just use it as an excuse to be dumb, like I saw a "raver" going around shirtless and in a diaper with a bunch of rave accessories at an anime convention, not playing a character but it's okay because there are other cosplayers who skimpily. It wasn't the only example, of course, and it seems like more and more conventions are more get-togethers for fetish and other carnal sub-cultures. And hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but there has to be some amount of consideration, at least before a certain time of day when kids are around.

I just think it's wrong to let it get too out of hand to the point where a convention like that starts to become an 18+ event by default. There are plenty of anime characters that aren't dressed in impractically revealing clothing.

Sleekit:

Sonic Doctor:
snip

do you have any idea what a false equivalence is ?

Yes I do, and I know the comment of mine you quoted embodies no such thing.

What the people putting on the expo did was try to set a precedent on how game companies can and can't advertise.

That was my relation to the saying that nexus quoted, and it makes perfect sense. If you regulate one kind of advertising, how long until the other ways are jeopardized too.

Just as one job market was denied in this ban, how long is it until other ones are jeopardized too.

Tenmar:
Yep it's official, the video game industry now has a religious right enforcing their morality.

I think we're jumping the gun here. Kind of like how the religious right thinks video games cause rape and murder.

I'm just saying, when hunting monsters....

nexus:
Some people clearly don't understand.

Apparently, most folks think the only thing at stake here is whether or not you find the booth babes appealing.

"I'm not sexist, so I'm okay with this."
"I like booth babes, so I'm not okay with this."

Some people touched on the glaring breech of rights and how these are not children but adults making a decision. Not many people here considering the civil rights and controversy in that...

"First they came for the booth babes, but I wasn't a booth babe, so I didn't speak up." etc

Exactly. This is just like the holocaust. I mean, people who pay money and agree to certain terms to appear at a private expo are exactly the same as religious and political minorities being taken away to be executed.

This isn't about "civil rights." There has, to my knowledge, never been a right in Europe to show up at a private event dressed how you want regardless of terms of conduct. Maybe France. It's certainly not guaranteed in our country, brother.

Scrumpmonkey:
Well booth-babes are very different to cosplayers in the respect that they are not affiliated in any professional sense with the product. Paying people to get their goods out in order to shift produce is a bit dubious. Cosplayers getting their goods out because they want to? totally different.

**Looks at picture**... How old are these booth-babes? 0_o Jesus i've got to start ID-ing, keep a 'Think 21' policy like Tesco does.

Yes, but these women might want to put their goods out in order to make money. Think of the booth babes! :( Their income will drop! She's just doing it to get through college! Single mother! Sad story!

In all seriousness, I do feel a little bad for the booth babes losing the work, but it is only one convention. Hopefully it isn't that big a deal.

Also, where did you get your avatar? :3

Sonic Doctor:

Sleekit:
the 18+ section was separated off from the main show and the women were moved there until they covered up.

a private company running an event in a private arena can make any restrictions on who gets in it wants.

i know: i used to run raves and man the door.

so quit using the "freedom" argument.

or better still try it out when a bouncer stops you getting in a club...

The freedom argument is a part of this, but I will drop it because you just don't understand right now.

I understand that it is a private company doing this expo, but the point they run it is to make money from the traffic(admission prices and booth space charges as well). Running off companies and most likely attendees with there new rule will hurt them big time in the wallet.

There the main show was made up of many parts, and the 18+ section was a part of that.

As I said before, the only fault of the companies is that they didn't keep those girls in that section. That's the only place they would truly be useful any way. Though the expo people are downright stupid for banning booth babes altogether.

(typical boo-hoo, think of the children picture here)

oh i understand alright but i don't think you do.

im a 40+ year old man i find the use of "booth babes" awkward, demeaning, insulting and restrictive.

i'm not even slightly interested in "booth babes" or anything akin to them.

but i am heavily interested in the actual video games and merchandise on show and sale at these types of shows and the panels/speakers and if i was to attend such a show it would either be in the company of a mature woman (who is also a gamer) or my nephews (who are also gamers) and as such their potential presence there in the hall that's the main part of the show basically restricts my socially acceptable attendance.

and i'm certainly not going to buy a game simply because someone gets paid to flash their tits and ass and heavy eye make-up in my direction.

you think i'm alone in that ? i have 5 adult brothers, all of them gamers, all of whom have partners and familys with whom they go almost everywhere socially and most of whom play video games of one kind or another and all of whom would feel the same.

like most people we all look for events to go to as "days out". most of them would consider a gaming show as potential "day out" because unlike in the minds of "hardcore" gamers here gaming IS mainstream in RL...except..."booth babes" take it off the menu as a universally acceptable "day out" and that's annoying especially to a life long gamer because there is no need for them at all.

there are plenty of people interested in games who are in effect socially excluded from going to or being in a place with full of hooters wannabes touting their wares.

and the ONLY reason you are defending is because you "like" them and lets be honest: you "like" them because our pulse races and you probably get a chubby and when a semi naked girl is nice to you. even when she's being paid to be that way. you have no concern for the wider effects on gaming as a whole, your societal concerns are merely a cover and you're prepared to argue (badly) over the presence of a handful of women who are inappropriately dressed for an event and venue that open to and aimed at the general public while pulling in civil rights, freedom and no less than the fucking nazis all for the sake of preserving your little chubbys potential interests.

oh i understand all right.

you think i haven't been there ? i used to go to car shows before i could even drive...in the 70s...when the cars where basically sun loungers for displaying near naked women...but that was the 70s ffs. games industry shows are practically the only place i can think of where that kind of display of raw flesh is still indulged to the same extent.

i've no doubt there are many young men who like "booth babes" but you'll learn.
it might cost you a house or 3 and most of your possessions but eventually you'll learn.
you can't stay a sucker for a pretty face all your life.

Alar:

In all seriousness, I do feel a little bad for the booth babes losing the work, but it is only one convention. Hopefully it isn't that big a deal.

I'm pretty sure they're not limited to "booth babe" as a career choice. I mean, there are plenty of other venues for scantily clad women to make money off the male head closer to the wallet.

It's also really worth noting that they didn't actually ban them until someone crossed the line. It's been a discouraged thing, but it wasn't until they reached a certain T&A saturation that it's an issue. While it's hard to blame the booth babes, perhaps people concerned should spread more vitriol towards those who scoffed at the rules and "ruined it for everyone."

Sonic Doctor:
If you regulate one kind of advertising, how long until the other ways are jeopardized too.

And when the world doesn't come to an end, and it turns out no damage was really done and no fucks were given?

What then?

nexus:
Some people clearly don't understand.

Apparently, most folks think the only thing at stake here is whether or not you find the booth babes appealing.

"I'm not sexist, so I'm okay with this."
"I like booth babes, so I'm not okay with this."

Some people touched on the glaring breech of rights and how these are not children but adults making a decision. Not many people here considering the civil rights and controversy in that...

"First they came for the booth babes, but I wasn't a booth babe, so I didn't speak up." etc

I don't think there's any violation of civil rights in saying "you can't advertise in this manner in our space". Or was this a hyperbolic joke?

Andy Chalk:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
That's a load, Andy, and you know it. One group is there because they want to show off their costumes, and the work that went into them, and their dedication to their favorite franchises. One group is there because some marketing genius realized that sex sells. Entirely different.

But you're not answering the question. Is it okay for her to attend as an independent cosplayer with the intent of promoting and advancing her own career and business?

So many of you guys want to paint this as a simple, black-and-white issue, and yet what you're really trying to do is set the terms under which people can and cannot flash cleavage at game shows. How do you argue that that's not a completely arbitrary distinction?

I'm still not seeing the big complication here.

Done independently: good. Paid for by a marketing department: bad. Walks on two legs but has wings: still good.

Which one of those categories does the woman you brought up earlier fall in to?

Tenmar:
So, let's get this straight.

We will not allow men and women who aspire in their career to be models and building their portfolio and help earn a living and develop a career. Also, apparently due to how risky these models dress and given the demographic we must have it remain child friendly because someone must think of the children.

Yep it's official, the video game industry now has a religious right enforcing their morality.

I don't think it is official. It could be they want the people to be drawn to a game because the game looks interesting, not because of some scantly clad person showing off their skin.

Tenmar:
Yep it's official, the video game industry now has a religious right enforcing their morality.

try again. there is no "religious right" in the UK.

I actually entirely agree with the banning of booth babes.

There is absolutely no purpose. And, if you are married, all this does is upsets your wife, and if you actually care about your wife, this in turn makes you have an awful time. Notwithstanding that, its insipid. Having some 'lolly' flag me down and waste my time trying to smear a product off on me, is no different than that of someone asking me to give them spare change if I am minding my own business / have no change / am in a foul mood.

Scantily clad women is not an answer to anything. Its the same as cheerleaders in sports. The moment they put cheerleaders in football and ruin the integrity of the game, just like rugby and american football - is the point where I question whether I actually want to support the game anymore.

Andy Chalk:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
That's a load, Andy, and you know it. One group is there because they want to show off their costumes, and the work that went into them, and their dedication to their favorite franchises. One group is there because some marketing genius realized that sex sells. Entirely different.

But you're not answering the question. Is it okay for her to attend as an independent cosplayer with the intent of promoting and advancing her own career and business?

So many of you guys want to paint this as a simple, black-and-white issue, and yet what you're really trying to do is set the terms under which people can and cannot flash cleavage at game shows. How do you argue that that's not a completely arbitrary distinction?

Depends. Is she there because she is legitimately interested in the medium and wants to see what's up with her favorite dev teams? Or is her only reason for showing up just so she can exploit the crowd and try to make a name for herself?

To be quite frank Andy, you're making this more complicated than it needs to be, not the other way around. Booth Babes have no place at a Game Convention any more than they do at your local Fries Electronics (Because really, how else do you market the latest and greatest monitor than by having scantly dressed women dancing around it?)Also, a simple dress code -really- wouldn't be asking too much.

Reading though this article and this thread has me thinking: My god people love to be offended.

No, booth babes are of little value to the exposition, possibly even detrimental, and mostly just misplaced.

But to take it as a personal offence? To think it will bring utter ruin to your family day of fun? That it will ruin 'integrity'?

They dont have your name on them, they are aimed at a general user demographic. They dont generally start humping you in front of your wife, and im not even sure where games got an integrity part (besides not crashing and stuff).

The expositions are run by marketing guys, the guys who designed and made the game generally got nothing to do with it. If you let a tasteless advertisement decision ruin your games, your gonna be missing out for no good reason.

Something I never understood about booth babes is why they are always in revealing outfits. Wouldn't it be better for the developers and/or publishers to instead have them dress up as characters or background characters from their games in a non revealing outfit? If Bioware wants to advertise Dragon Age 3 wouldn't it be better to have a model dressed up as a Mage or a Priest of the chantry instead of a revealing outfit?

I love the booth babes; gorgeous girls in great costumes willing to let you take their photographs. Yet I'm not fussed that this has happened. I personally would have banned attendees under 18 instead and enforced a 1 babe and 1 stud ratio per booth though.

Although do you think Team Ninja can still bring them since if they're advertising DoA it would legitimately count as advertising an aspect of the game?

DevilWithaHalo:

Imthatguy:

DevilWithaHalo:

Indeed, why can I have sex with any willing woman but not pa... oh... wait... we're talking about something else... /shiftyeyes

XD You bring up a good point but I think we can agree that using someones baser instincts to exploit them is wrong.

It's what make the world go round. Food advertisements attempt to make you hungry. Beer commercials often tug at the pants of men. Advertising is exploitation. What's your target demographic and what are they interested in?

I have a hard time sympathizing with people who choose to spend money on things they don't need for ridiculous reasons; booth babes, plastic surgery, homeopathy, etc. Why does an authority need to step in and prevent a fool from parting with his money?

Besides, banning booth babes actually saves the companies money from hiring them, and preventing the consumer from realizing the shoddy business practices said company would use to advertise their business, while simultaneously cutting into the working wages of your local model. You're harming the wrong target, since it's the company you're pissed at. Letting them waste money on a tactic that will gain them only negative press while financially supporting the models business is a win win for everyone; minus the twisted company that seeks to steal your money by offering you visual stimulation in exchange.

A model being paid to dress a certain way is no more advertising a product than a cosplayer who dresses a certain way to support something they love for the hell of it. The product is still receiving advertising. What's the difference? A few dollars changed hands? I was going to advocate that cosplayers receive a reduction in attendance costs because they're advertising various products, but I can't now because that's exploitation.

But only if they're cute? Only if the only thing they offer is visual stimulation? So if I got a hot piece of ass to wear skimpy clothing that actually knew what the fuck she was talking about, no one would take offense? Or if I paid an uglier than sin female to stand around in skimpy clothing who didn't know shit it would be OK? A chip and dales model painted like the ghost of sparta?

Well, it's a private run show and can make it's own rules. Can't wait to see the verbage on this cockeyed guideline.

I agree with you. My first thought was, "What if the "booth babe" was knowledgeable?" Would she still be kicked out?

A booth is their to advertise a product. Ban unqualified people from manning booths, not pretty women. If we are worried about them being half naked, apply a dress code to all people attending the convention.

BiH-Kira:

Frankster:

Oskuro:
I'm with the idea of, rather than banning, enforcing an equal amount of booth-studs. :D

+1 Have buff guys with just a belt of ammo covering their privates for advertising shooter games to balance it all out.

Do I smell a petition starting?
We need to make this happen as soon as possible.

You can add another signature to the list. We don't need less objectification of women, we need more objectification of men! Only when both sexes are considered equally as sex objects will we find true peace!

While I like the concept of booth babes (especially if they know things they are supposed to represent), yet...
I don't like how they are treated by people (half of them are drooling over them, other half is demonizing them)
I don't like the purpose and intentions behind them
And especially I don't like that people fall for that

So yeah, with heavy heart I must admit that banning them was a good thing.

Sleekit:
these are events open to the general public which are there to show VIDEO GAMES hoping to attract as large an audience as possible as is gaming itself in general.

its an entertainment industry that appeals to everyone.

#

It's quite possible to use different methods to target different people. Often its more effective to run a few specific ads rather than one generalist one.

Sleekit:
there are no "booth babes" at film festivals.
there are no "booth babes" at music festivals.
there is NO justification for "booth babes" at game "festivals".

#

There bloody well are equivalents at both. At film promos they tend to be wearing a classier style of costumes but they are there to sell the movie with sex appeal.

This may not be justification for booth babes at games festivals but trying to suggest neither film nor music use similar tactics is naive.

I am not interested in booth babes. That being said, the only reason I might mind it is because videogame companies are simply wasting money (and since it's not a big waste of money, I don't mind it very much). If you don't stand out (and since almost everyone employ them, you don't stand out), then what's the advantage for the game? And honestly, I doubt anyone will be swayed into buying one game or the other by them, or even watch a trailer they are not already interested in, because if they like to look at the girls, they will LOOK AT THE GIRLS, they will actually pay less attention to the product.

I don't see any reasons to ban them, though, people could walk around naked everywhere, for all I care. Wanting to ban them is just something prudish people would ask for, or people that get offended about what a marketing department might think of them (I don't see why anyone would, marketing departments are dumb by definition), or people that believes that other people aren't as smart as them, and needs to be protected by the "booth-babes-mind-trick" or have some misguided idea about women being defined by what other women do for a living (some sell their bodies for sex, does this mean that all humans do? Some women dress up for money, does this mean all women do? Does this means that other human beings, not some alien creatures that know nothing of us, should come to the same conclusion?).

Not only I don't think there is anything wrong with earning money with your looks, if you find people willing to pay for it (I would be okay even with sex being sold, but in many countries it's illegal, and criminal organization get their hands on it, leading to horrible abuses, so I am not going to debate on this now) and they want to, I am totally fine with it (I might get mad if someone gets a job that requires a smart/capable person, by virtue of being beautiful/handsome, but otherwise, I see no problems).

Am I smart? I go to med school. Am I physically gifted? I do athletics. Am I beautiful? I do the model/booth babe/whatever.

I doubt booth babes ever hurt anyone just for being booth babes, so no need to ban them, this alone should be reason enough (hurt feelings don't count, of course).

Alar:

Also, where did you get your avatar? :3

I know it's cute right. It's cat-rainbowdash. But it's out of *Ahem* 'context'. Protip; The pet collar is not part of the cat costume. Let's just say this was cut out of a picture i could never show in full and leave it at that.

I'm a bad man... >.>

And by opposing the use of sex as a marketing tool, you might as well reinstate some 13th century dress code forcing women to wear sweaters down to their ankles, because you could accuse any woman on the world in every situation of social interaction to use her sexuality as a marketing tool. Yeah, sex is evil, and marketing by sex is far worse more evilor, a dark, mystical power used by women to manipulate men, and at the same time oppressing the women which doesn't even make any sense, at least admit that.

The witchhunts of the middle ages were the result of the same incoherent argumentation.

But why not prepare for some witches, as it seems we have people bitten by Sarkeesian-zombies already among us.

Rocklobster99:

A woman who gets paid to put on a costume is being exploited by the patriarchy.

A woman who chooses to put on a costume for fun suffers from internalized misogyny.

I don't mind booth babes being banned. It's crude and kind of insulting to men. I was in Cardiff recently and one clothes shop had a male model just hanging around outside topless. He was certainly drawing in the females but I doubt any guys would go anywhere near, I certainly wouldn't. The same goes for booth babes I think. I'm sure they make most women feel quite uncomfortable, which whilst not a crime unto itself, does make the expo less fun and enjoyable for those women and many men.

However those saying 'paid babe = bad, babe for fun = good' are missing Andy's point I think. He points out the reason they were banned was because of inappropriate clothing. Thus creating the double standard where booth babes with cleavage being bad and cosplayers showing cleavage being perfectly fine. Which seems to be the case.

Frankster:

Oskuro:
I'm with the idea of, rather than banning, enforcing an equal amount of booth-studs. :D

+1 Have buff guys with just a belt of ammo covering their privates for advertising shooter games to balance it all out.

I would still say that's not appropriate for a gaming convention. Rather a blanket ban on Booth Totty in under 18 areas than more totty in under 18 areas.

I think the point is that the convention is for everyone. And the best compromise is to have the 'if you have booth totty, go to this area' or 'go to the 18 rated games area'.
The former is better.

The only time you see men with tags on their body parts is in Pride events for example. I don't see why it's fine to have women everywhere.

In some other events you do have exposed males. It's all rather more complicated than it needs to be. And it's always dangerous to have this debate on the interwebs. It always feels like nothing is achieved.

"Think of the children!" is a ridiculous argument. We present violence, gore, all that shizzle to minors at these conventions just as well. Why? Because people care jack shit about whether or not the contents of the game affect minors (But of course people cry in vain when some random kid goes around shooting, since obviously the games are at fault!)

"Cosplayers are just unpaid booth babes" or "Booth Babes are just paid cosplayers" is a valid point ... in theory. As long as they advertise their own skills, I have no problem whatsoever. If they express themselves, I have no problem whatsoever. But when they're hired to advertise something else through their body, I do have a problem. I do not want to be portrayed as a "teenage looser with no sex life" for attending a gaming convention. I do not want to be surrounded by women who get paid to look like they had their clothes stolen.

There might be people who do. Perfectly fine. I get the point that it sells and that it works. Perfectly. Fine.
But if a company chooses to ban booth babes on these grounds, that is perfectly fine as well. I'd rather have less companies attending the con due to the ban, than the entire medium portrayed as a massive sex sim, which might in the long run have a much stronger effect.

It's selling games with sex vs dressing a a character. To dress as a character is to say yes, I enjoy this person, but when you have a scantily clad advertisement for an upcoming game, that's just hey guys, look at my companies wonderful tits. Also buy our games.

Well it's their event, if they want to promote a certain atmosphere and image then that's up to them. I can see why, videogames are trying to get themselves a modicum of respect and shed the basement dweller image. Booth babes don't exactly help that.

antares273:

But why not prepare for some witches, as it seems we have people bitten by Sarkeesian-zombies already among us.

Rocklobster99:

A woman who gets paid to put on a costume is being exploited by the patriarchy.

A woman who chooses to put on a costume for fun suffers from internalized misogyny.

You do realise that guy's a massive troll don't you?

Gotta agree with a lot of posts. One is shallow marketing, the other is a customer. Pretty obvious difference

Basically the difference between someone at a convention advertising & endorsing Doritos, and a person at a convention enjoying a bag of Doritos. Not the same thing

I'll keep my comments short and sweet:

1: Most booth babes are aspiring models just looking for work, so no, they're not likely to know much about the games they're promoting.

2: If your concern with a game is attached primarily to a curvaceous, scantily clad female protagonist, one such female being there at the booth isn't likely going to change your mind one way or the other about the game.

3: Has anyone done a survey or poll of people attending these expos and asked if they're bothered by booth babes? Shouldn't something like this take into consideration the thoughts of the attendees?

And 4: Tying back in with 2, sexy females in revealing outfits is already ingrained into the gaming culture. Take away booth babes and they'll likely just be replaced by literal cardboard cut-outs of these characters that will be used to catch people's eyes. The cut-outs will know even less about the game they're advertising, won't be as much fun to get a picture taken with, and certainly won't be getting paid at the end of the day. Why not give that job to a person and help them out?

i was going to say this was a little extreme but it seems like they never really had to deal with booth babes and had already discouraged using them so it doesnt seem that heavy handed.

and like the first poster said a cosplayer is portraying a particular character because they want to, not just to attract attention to the game/product

Tenmar:
So, let's get this straight.

We will not allow men and women who aspire in their career to be models and building their portfolio and help earn a living and develop a career. Also, apparently due to how risky these models dress and given the demographic we must have it remain child friendly because someone must think of the children.

Yep it's official, the video game industry now has a religious right enforcing their morality.

It's not about models nor about children, it is a gaming expo, and these people were selling all but the events agreed on product, every community has it's terms and this is no different.
But there are plenty of modeling expos where their bodies will be more then appreciated.

It's a shame such bans need to be made but I honestly can't blame organizers if attendees can't keep perspective, I mean ffs World of Tanks had a full stripclub show going on everywhere they went... it's a game about nothing more then bloody WW2 tanks...

I find it odd that a lot of the embarrassment about booth babes is actually deflected embarrassment about how a lot of male gamers are, well, not very sexy or sophisticated. It makes people feel bad to see the two together. These women have their own lives though and probably are not that grateful that a chance to earn money has been removed even if they have been protected from having to have their photos taken with gamer dorks.

But other arguments against them make more sense. Like it isn't appropriate to have them in an environment where there may be families and that it makes female industry professionals feel like they are in a boys only club.

Expecting male gamers to all become sexless and only interested in extreme violence or less extreme activities like sports games because it's less embarrassing for the industry and commentators isn't going to work completely though. And should we want it to really?

(looks up what a QR code is).

So, they were basically encouraging people to take snaps of their models asses?
Classy, with a silent Cl.

Way to encourage the creepier elements of the fandom.

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