Microsoft Prohibits Gamers From Cashing in on YouTube

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Wow... this is a serious dick-move on their part. Doesn't affect me in any way, really, but I can totally sympathise with those it does affect.

Clearly Microsoft's senior management have been bought out by Sony, and implemented a new business strategy to annoy so many people that nobody buys their products any more, Microsoft and XBox die a horrible death and the lame Playstation takes over the world! [/tinfoilhat]

Well... can YOU think of a better reason?!

Thought not...

:P

GAunderrated:

Storm Dragon:
This is idiotic! How do gamers making a few bucks off of these videos harm Microsoft in any way?

Because companies do not like to compete anymore. Nor do they like the idea of some average joe making 50 bucks a month off their free advertising of microsoft's product that gets hundreds of thousands of views.

But that makes no sense! If Microsoft looks at these videos as advertisements for their games, then they would like them since they don't have to pay the gamers that make the videos. This action is completely devoid of logic.

RvLeshrac:

gigastar:

RvLeshrac:

Uploading a video to YouTube != enabling monetization for that video.

TB does get monetisation for his videos, in fact in a recent video he explicitly stated that his only source of regular income is the money coming in from his videos. And according to him its enough that he doesnt need to find a regular job.

And I'm sure he monetizes the videos without first obtaining the rights necessary to do so from the developers.

Or, you know, the opposite of that.

Wrong again, most of the games he features are sent to him in advance by developers and publishers for review.

When you step away from reviews however, the only developer known to complain to content creators about free advertisement is Rockstar. By watching his mailbox series (which features recorded gameplay footage in the background) ive picked up on all i need to see to decide that Torchlight 2 and FTL: Faster Than Light was worth my money.

Ruley:

gigastar:

Ruley:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/10/09/ign-xbox-live-app-launches-in-uk?abthid=50744f3775e45b7d200001b0

I still don't think this is the driving force? Maybe a contributing factor with the Xbox dash having adverts on it?

Granted its convenient, but i fail to see any connections between IGN, YouTube, independently recorded Halo gameplay and MS in that.

That aside, the app is just another redundancy for Xbox users, anyone with an tablet, laptop, desktop or smartphone can access IGN just fine to read articles and in most cases watch videos.

Agreed. This might have had more merit as a move of control of how to access content for the sake of add revenue if their weren't a dozen other ways to get it whilst still using the Xbox.

This is another step back for microsoft, they have to accept that with the number of devices on the market that allow users to access content easily on demand, the Xbox won't become the central media hub of the home as they were hoping and i think smartglass is a late change to a broken concept that wont really help.

Lol they are really trying to force the xbox = central entertainment unit media hub hybrid.
With their, kinect and smart glass and pay us to log into facebook please...arghh
Guess what..we have tablets, smartphones and smart tv's.
Last year was it, they were trying to force developers/publishers not to release any exclusive on the PS3 by threat of denying them an xbox release. wonder if that happened.

So Halo 4 has a machinima theater mode, and a user agreement that says you can't profit off Halo videos?
I smell a false advertising lawsuit!

Covarr:

saintdane05:
So, will this effect Red vs. Blue? It better not...

Red vs Blue? Probably not, as there's all kinds of special arrangements in place for it. But I could see it seriously harming other Rooster Teeth ventures, such as a good chunk of what Achievement Hunter does. We probably can say goodbye to Fails of the Weak and Achievement Pig Horse, among others. And Trials Files, because MS also publishes Trials Evolution.

This is a bad and stupid move, Microsoft.

P.S. Thanks

Goddammit! If they touch my Achievement Hunter, I will hurt them!

Uhm.. isnt it only forbidden if you actually charge money for watching the vid? I dont think there is an actual law on making "passive" money from adds.

Especialy since youtube partners dont have much say in wich of their videos theres adds and wich arent.

IronMit:

Ruley:

gigastar:

Granted its convenient, but i fail to see any connections between IGN, YouTube, independently recorded Halo gameplay and MS in that.

That aside, the app is just another redundancy for Xbox users, anyone with an tablet, laptop, desktop or smartphone can access IGN just fine to read articles and in most cases watch videos.

Agreed. This might have had more merit as a move of control of how to access content for the sake of add revenue if their weren't a dozen other ways to get it whilst still using the Xbox.

This is another step back for microsoft, they have to accept that with the number of devices on the market that allow users to access content easily on demand, the Xbox won't become the central media hub of the home as they were hoping and i think smartglass is a late change to a broken concept that wont really help.

Lol they are really trying to force the xbox = central entertainment unit media hub hybrid.
With their, kinect and smart glass and pay us to log into facebook please...arghh
Guess what..we have tablets, smartphones and smart tv's.
Last year was it, they were trying to force developers/publishers not to release any exclusive on the PS3 by threat of denying them an xbox release. wonder if that happened.

I agree, the xbox as a concept for accessing content and becoming the central media hub of the home is seriously flawed. Mostly because accessing that content with a controller is far worse than a mouse and keyboard. Kinect could have bridged the gap but failed on its promise really.

Last year was it, they were trying to force developers/publishers not to release any exclusive on the PS3 by threat of denying them an xbox release. wonder if that happened.

Have you got this worded right? Xbox would deny developers an Xbox release if they chose to go PS3 exclusive... isn't that a loophole for how the system already works? Ps3 exclusive means never coming to xbox anyway?

Do video reviews fall under this?

It'd be kind of sad to see user reviews be restricted to text only again.

I'm wondering how that new updated policy affects whether the content is uploaded... there's nothing restricting the uploading for that, so there's no blockage by Microsoft to pull people to their new streaming system. All this does is make it so that the content cannot generate profits for the uploader, which is what the policy ALWAYS said... it certainly looks barely any different than when I looked at it a while ago...

Ruley:

IronMit:
Last year was it, they were trying to force developers/publishers not to release any exclusive on the PS3 by threat of denying them an xbox release. wonder if that happened.

Have you got this worded right? Xbox would deny developers an Xbox release if they chose to go PS3 exclusive... isn't that a loophole for how the system already works? Ps3 exclusive means never coming to xbox anyway?

I think what hes referring to is the timed exclusives policy, basically that any content that goes on XBL has to either come online before or at the same time as the PSN version and with equivalent content.

The way its worded? Trying ward off thier install base getting shafted by developers who prefer the PS3.

The way it is? Making life hard for developers/publishers to develop/publish content for both PSN and XBL.

-Dragmire-:
Do video reviews fall under this?

It'd be kind of sad to see user reviews be restricted to text only again.

I don't think people understand. I can go on to youtube and post my Halo 4 gameplay as long as I don't make money off of it. Posting videos on youtube doesn't make you suddenly make money.

All of the major channels, Yogscast, Totalbiscut, Machinima, etc... All have deals to avoid this. Since normally you can't make money off of gameplay. If you join the Youtube partners with gameplay vids, they will be removed.

Mikeyfell:
So Halo 4 has a machinima theater mode, and a user agreement that says you can't profit off Halo videos?
I smell a false advertising lawsuit!

What? That's not false advertisement.

If it said:

"Halo 4 Theater mode! You can make money off of it!" Then it would be.

But considering it doesn't say you can make money off of it, doesn't mean it's false advertisement. Posting Machinima or gameplay is fine, as long as you don't make money off of it. I have some videos of gameplay on youtube and since I don't make money off of it, I won't be effected.

dragongit:
You know Microsoft, I was going to wait until there were funny montoge videos of Halo 4 and machinima, before I made my decision of weither or not to buy it. Guess that won't be the case anymore. Herpa derp.

Seriously, Bill Gates can drop a 200 dollar bill, and it literally wouldn't be worth his time to pick it up. If you want people to buy your games, make them good.

Bill Gates has almost NOTHING to do with the day-to-day running of Microsoft anymore. He's a figurehead more than anything. If he HAD a title, it would probably be Chairman Emeritus like Stan Lee was for Marvel for about the past 20 years.

But, just for s***s and giggles, some bored and odd (Is there any other kind???) Mathematician crunched the numbers some time back. Given market fluctuations, Bill Gates earns/makes about $5,000, give or take, in the time is takes himself or an average male to take a piss. He could spend money for every second of every day for the rest of his life, and never run out.

(Source: http://toobbox.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-bill-gates-to-take-a-piss/ )

Korten12:

Mikeyfell:
So Halo 4 has a machinima theater mode, and a user agreement that says you can't profit off Halo videos?
I smell a false advertising lawsuit!

What? That's not false advertisement.

If it said:

"Halo 4 Theater mode! You can make money off of it!" Then it would be.

But considering it doesn't say you can make money off of it, doesn't mean it's false advertisement. Posting Machinima or gameplay is fine, as long as you don't make money off of it. I have some videos of gameplay on youtube and since I don't make money off of it, I won't be effected.

It's the same principle of selling you a camera and in the fine print saying "By the way, you can't sell anything you make with this."

You have to assume the point of creating something for public consumption is to make money.
Considering that Halo is (probably) (easily) the biggest game in the Machinima world this user license seems just flat wrong. It probably won't last very long.

Mikeyfell:

Korten12:

Mikeyfell:
So Halo 4 has a machinima theater mode, and a user agreement that says you can't profit off Halo videos?
I smell a false advertising lawsuit!

What? That's not false advertisement.

If it said:

"Halo 4 Theater mode! You can make money off of it!" Then it would be.

But considering it doesn't say you can make money off of it, doesn't mean it's false advertisement. Posting Machinima or gameplay is fine, as long as you don't make money off of it. I have some videos of gameplay on youtube and since I don't make money off of it, I won't be effected.

It's the same principle of selling you a camera and in the fine print saying "By the way, you can't sell anything you make with this."

You have to assume the point of creating something for public consumption is to make money.
Considering that Halo is (probably) (easily) the biggest game in the Machinima world this user license seems just flat wrong. It probably won't last very long.

No, your just wrong. It's a game, not a camera. Recording something with a camera in real life is not the same as recording ingame to which you're in Microsofts field then.

Machinima doesn't cost money, nor do you have to make money from it. Like I said I CAN STILL POST MACHINIMA's just not make money off of it. Youtube doesn't allow you to join the Youtube Partners (to which you get paid) if you have footage from games on your channel. Machinima and big channels like that all have deals with Microsoft and such and or don't make any money at all.

So no it's not the same principle.

They are alienating their most dedicated users! Posting game footage on youtube increases the exposure of their games, essentially providing free advertising. Posting game content on youtube also helps foster a community, which intern increases the shelf life of a game. And they wish to end all of this?

'The more you tighten your grip, Microsoft, the more your power will slip through your fingers.'

Just for this, I am not going to buy Halo 4!
..
...
....
I don't own a 360.

I don't understand why Microsoft is doing this.

A large portion of the success of Call of Duty can be attributed to people making tons of youtube videos about the games, and the fact you can make money off the game is pushing people to buy the games even more.

Videos on youtube are FREE ADVERTISING. Most companies would sell their grandmothers soul if they could get a reliable source for that! Why shoot your own foot in your ability to compete with Call of Duty, who still allows you to make money off their games.

You are being less consumer friendly than Activision, why would you do that?

Korten12:

No, your just wrong. It's a game, not a camera. Recording something with a camera in real life is not the same as recording ingame to which you're in Microsofts field then.

Machinima doesn't cost money, nor do you have to make money from it. Like I said I CAN STILL POST MACHINIMA's just not make money off of it. Youtube doesn't allow you to join the Youtube Partners (to which you get paid) if you have footage from games on your channel. Machinima and big channels like that all have deals with Microsoft and such and or don't make any money at all.

So no it's not the same principle.

you aren't listening...reading...what ever.
The automatic assumption you're expected to make when someone makes something for public consumption is that they're trying to make money off it.

A video on youtube is something for public consumption.
When Halo 4 comes out and has a machinima mode and the license agreement says the user can't make profit that is a clear cut case of the advertising conflicting with the terms of use.

Contracts and posting that doesn't apply are different matters entirely

A piece of Machinima is just a movie shot in an existing engine instead of with a camera or rendering an engine your self, so it is the same principle
It's perfectly reasonable for Microsoft to discourage people from making money off their product, but when features in their product encourage people to make something with the means to make profit at the same time that IS false advertising.

Altorin:
They're basically assaulting fair use, and once fair use goes out the window, fuck the internet, we may as well just bang rocks together.

News Flash: "Red vs Blue" replaced by new series "Rock vs Bigger Rock". More at 11.

EULA's are basically the smoking gun of contracts. It's a gun pressed to your head that if you don't accept the terms your entire library can be held hostage. 1000's of dollars worth of games suddenly locked down behind bars unless you accept it.

It's nothing but extortion and not a single self respecting judge would ever uphold such a EULA wherein the agreement basically reads "Sign this or else".

So enjoy many more Halo Machinima series.

Tiger Sora:
So a few dozen youtubers have lost their revenue streams. Now they have to get real jobs like regular people.

So because your jealous it's not a real job.

What making videos to view for peoples entertainment is Not a job? Isn't that what basically all visual media is? Making something to be viewed for enjoyment?

Guess actors, Tv-producers, videogame developers, etc. should also get Real Jobs. After all entertainment (in the broadest sense of the word) apparently isn't a real job when you put an advertisement in front of it.

Korten12:
No, your just wrong. It's a game, not a camera. Recording something with a camera in real life is not the same as recording ingame to which you're in Microsofts field then.

Machinima doesn't cost money, nor do you have to make money from it. Like I said I CAN STILL POST MACHINIMA's just not make money off of it. Youtube doesn't allow you to join the Youtube Partners (to which you get paid) if you have footage from games on your channel. Machinima and big channels like that all have deals with Microsoft and such and or don't make any money at all.

So no it's not the same principle.

It's not like there are DOZENS of youtube partners that stream or post recorded footage of games. No those don't exist.

You haven't been on youtube in a LONG time have you? Want me to point you to one of the MANY channels that show game footage whilst being a youtube partner?

I honestly think a large part of youtube revenue is Game reviewing and Lets Playing of games by their partners.

dragongit:
You know Microsoft, I was going to wait until there were funny montoge videos of Halo 4 and machinima, before I made my decision of weither or not to buy it. Guess that won't be the case anymore. Herpa derp.

Seriously, Bill Gates can drop a 200 dollar bill, and it literally wouldn't be worth his time to pick it up. If you want people to buy your games, make them good.

Gates doesn't really have much to do with it anymore.

OT: Well, that's pathetic.

saintdane05:
So, will this effect Red vs. Blue? It better not...

Rooster Teeth has pre-established agreements with Microsoft as well as Bungie and 343 studios. It shouldn't affect them.

This whole situation stinks of "If we can't then nobody can waahhh!" petty spite.

I'm pretty sure this is illegal.

"wow guys ur gifing up fre advertising clearly ur not know busines lol i should ceo microsoft"

All these super informative business men on an internet forum are starting to irk me, yes, clearly you all know better than Microsoft. Look, I get getting upset at them for this. But can we refrain from pseudo-intellectuals trying to tell a massively continually successful corporation (which has proven all naysayers wrong time and time again) that they don't know what they're doing? Because at least financially, they know what they're fucking doing.

Now that my flame shield is up, I would like to express my concern for what this could mean to a lot of Machinima stuff. I'm guessing that since they practically officially endorse Red vs Blue, this won't really affect them yeah? Some of the smaller filmers might get hit though.

Why?

There's nothing else to ask. Why?

What does Microsoft get from this arrangement?

lacktheknack:
Why?

There's nothing else to ask. Why?

What does Microsoft get from this arrangement?

They don't actually get anything out of it, unless they're planning on attempting to compete with Google.

I hope the EU can hold together long enough to be able to smite MS for this backwards thinking illegal document. For some reason, the US thinks it's fine to force a user into a contract for a product they can't return when they can't read the contract without first purchasing the product.

What in the actual fuck? If it wasn't for people making videos from Halo montages and videos I doubt that there would be a second Halo trilogy in the first place. This reminds me of the Notch vs The Yogscast debacle a while ago.

Well, that's what you get for playing Halo instead of a REAL game.
I jest, I jest
This is a pretty shitty move on their side, not only will it affect the revenues of some small and large channels, but if they implement it the same way music videos are on Youtube, there will ALWAYS be ads on the videos in question, but the people making and uploading the videos will get precisely $0.00 per view.

Apparently this sort of thing has been in the EULA for a while, but they don't really enforce. This video seems to provide more context about the issue.

This is just insane. One of the big reasons Starcraft 2 boomed so big and so fast is that there was all these underground content makers from the Brood War days. The fact that these content makers can then monetize their effort provides additional advertising and hubs to recruit new people in (think Day9 Daily or HuskyStarcraft).

Microsoft is taking one big rocket launcher, aiming at their feet and blowing away their lower half to bits.

Storm Dragon:

GAunderrated:

Storm Dragon:
This is idiotic! How do gamers making a few bucks off of these videos harm Microsoft in any way?

Because companies do not like to compete anymore. Nor do they like the idea of some average joe making 50 bucks a month off their free advertising of microsoft's product that gets hundreds of thousands of views.

But that makes no sense! If Microsoft looks at these videos as advertisements for their games, then they would like them since they don't have to pay the gamers that make the videos. This action is completely devoid of logic.

It doesn't make sense to us because we are rational human beings. However to most sociopaths running businesses they see it as money they arn't earning. They do not see the positives because there is no immediate tangible profit they can put on a chart.

saintdane05:
So, will this effect Red vs. Blue? It better not...

Rooster Teeth has a Rights agreement with microsoft

So... does this only affect Microsoft published games?

If so, that's of no issue to me or my PS3.

Still, it's a real silly decision by Mircrsoft. It could hurt some major gaming sites like Machinima.

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