Entitled:

cidbahamut:
I feel like we're missing a more important talking point here. The console and PC experiences are beginning to converge.

No, they are not. Console-centric games are still based on the "arcade + cinematic eye-candy" paradigm, while PC games, (both traditiona hardcore and facebook casual) are based on the "tabletop game meets utility software" paradigm.

Uhhhhh? 1999 called, it wants its way of thinking back.

TizzytheTormentor:
Why the hell does something have to infinitely beat something? The console wars was a stupid term made up by annoying pricks to make fun of consoles.

Can't Consoles/PC/Handhelds/iOS games all co-exist? Even the term "Hardcore" is overused as hell. Playing Call of Duty doesn't make you hardcore (Finishing Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne on hard your first playthrough, THAT'S FUCKING HARDCORE!)

What about Alpha Squad 7: Lady Nocturne: A Tek Jansen Adventure, just getting half way through that is mad hardcore.

Anyway, Trip Hawkins needs to shut the fuck up and go surfing or skydiving or some other dumb shit that his name would suit. He's just bitter about the 3DO.

You know .. I have been pretty lax on EA over the years. But high holy hell I am getting sick to death of EA telling us what the future will hold, when really all they are telling us is what they want the future to hold.

Just like the notion of digital downloads and multiplayer resulting in all EA games now are to have multiplayer. That would be all well and good, except for the absolutely disgusting fact they are pushing multiplayer on people. Its already begun too. Look at ME3. Sure you can finish the game without multiplayer. However if you want a decent chance, or to gain the "good" endings, you either have to play multiplayer, Buy DLC, Buy android apps, or have an Iphone. THat is not only wrong, its friggen disgusting.

So EA... Would you kindly STFU. Yes we know you want everyone online so you can better control your games and your profit. That isnt what WE want. Your starting to act like microsoft with this nonsense. Cut it out already.

IronMit:
yo pc gamers.... if I build a gaming PC for like £500 now (shopping around for parts-not in a hurry)..will it become obsolete quickly/need upgrading 6months into the next console cycle?

Is the optimum time (price wise) build a PC linked to the console cycle?

That would really depend on what you built. A pre-built machine at that price would probably become obsolete within a couple of years, picking your parts and having a PC store assemble it for you, or assembling it yourself, and it could potentially last the next 8 - dependent on what the next gen brings out, what parts you are able to buy and for what price.
The optimum time to build a PC, IMO, is probably a few months after the start of a console cycle. You know what consoles are capable of, you know what your PC will need to be able to do for the next 8 years, and PC parts only ever drop in price whilst a new console, if the previous generation is anything to go by, will be as expensive if not more so than a new PC, dependent on where you live.
If you need help with choosing parts, make a thread on these forums and you'll get a fair bit of help. There are a few PC gamers here that enjoy the hardware side of things almost as much as the gaming itself [Well, maybe not but I do, and others have as much if not more knowledge in certain areas than me, so hey.].

Hero in a half shell:
Does no one understand the whole point of "We need the next generation of consoles to come out NOW!"

Of course their market is shrinking and loosing out to PC games, because if games are made for them the developers end up getting limited by their crap user specs, whereas PCs can handle loads more content, calculations, better internet connectivity etc.

If you look at the Dreamcast's game sales they've never been worse. Does that mean that all consoles are dead? No, it means there are better games being made for more powerful alternative machines.

Hordes of developers have ended up announcing they were coming back to focus on PC releases in the past year or two, (some with their tails between their legs) because the consoles were to restricting on their game designs. Would these people have done that if there was a more powerful console to create games for? No.

What's killing console game sales are the outdated tech. Release the PS4, the Xbox Loop, the Wiiwhatever and sales will rocket back up to perfectly viable and profitable levels.

The point is he trying to make is yes, console sales will increase with the new cycle - temporarily - meanwhilst PC sales are just constantly going up. "Console game sales wax and wane with hardware cycles, but the PC market has seen growth year over year".
Even if a new console cycle is released, it will just cause a temporary increase to console sales, whilst also lowering the barrier to entry for PC gaming as if you're going to buy a new console, why not buy a new PC for the same price but with more power. Some people will have reasons to hold onto console gaming, others will decide not to bother and to join the so called Master Race instead, allowing them more control over their experience, and providing both a useful utility upgrade, and a gaming upgrade.

Whether this will come to pass or not still waits to be seen, but if the PC playerbase just constantly grows, whilst the console playerbase grows then shrinks, then grows, then shrinks, the future seems likely to favour the PC as a platform.

I really don't think we should put much stock in the opinion of a guy who thought the 3do was a good idea.

But anyways the way I look at it is this.
The pc player base is growing because of casual games like farmville and angry birds, Now if you are a pc gamer this should worry you. why would a software house pour millions of dollars into a hardcore pc game when they can just knock out a cheap casual game and ride the wave all the way to the bank.

That niche console market he's predicting isn't because so many players have adopted pc's to play games, its because the pc market will be so choked with casual games that hardcore players will have to turn to consoles to get the experience they want. In effect consoles will become the last bastillion of hardcore games.

"The console market is always going to be with us, because there's always going to be a hardcore segment, a segment that likes innovation,"

That quote makes it pretty clear that he thinks the days of pc gaming being innovative are coming to a close.
As a console and pc player I really hope it dosn't end up like that.

cidbahamut:
I feel like we're missing a more important talking point here. The console and PC experiences are beginning to converge.

I wouldn't say they're converging, more like the PC is simply adopting the only few things consoles ever had as an advantage in the great debate.

Mostly due to Steam I might add.

"Consoles will soon be niche..."

Oh, because PC tech is advancing faster than consoles can be manufactured cost effectively, and Nintendo "Fun for the whole family" style kinect stuff will be the niche.

"... because it's too hardcore".

WELP. :|

Vault101:

CardinalPiggles:

cidbahamut:
I feel like we're missing a more important talking point here. The console and PC experiences are beginning to converge.

I wouldn't say they're converging, more like the PC is simply adopting the only few things consoles ever had as an advantage in the great debate.

Mostly due to Steam I might add.

but look at theings on the console side

downloads....internet conections...updates and patches

seems kind of "PC"-like to me

Your new avatar makes me chuckle, I never much cared for Mort.

OT: It makes sense really if you believe in the singularity stuff.

the more advanced technology becomes the faster the next generation of technology will leap forward, and with console generations about 8 years long the technology available will quickly out strip those and make them look even more like antiques.

Pretty soon they will just adapt and become closed platform PCs that can have parts swapped out but only with branded Microsoft or Sony parts.

Vault101:

FelixG:

Your new avatar makes me chuckle, I never much cared for Mort.

tis not polite to speak ill of the dead :(

OT: It makes sense really if you believe in the singularity stuff.

the more advanced technology becomes the faster the next generation of technology will leap forward, and with console generations about 8 years long the technology available will quickly out strip those and make them look even more like antiques.

Pretty soon they will just adapt and become closed platform PCs that can have parts swapped out but only with branded Microsoft or Sony parts.

or our phones will wirelessly connect to the TV

principle of covergence and all that

Speak ill of the dead? Steve jobs was a tool!

And my phone already connects to my TV, gotta love smart technology. Scared my mom the first time I used my phone to turn up the volume xD

Nice EA, get the hardcore elitists clawing at each other. Come on we have to put up with enough of that without you dumping gas on the fire.

Gotta love that the guy who made the 3do is predicting the slow death of console gaming.

Entitled:

cidbahamut:
I feel like we're missing a more important talking point here. The console and PC experiences are beginning to converge.

No, they are not. Console-centric games are still based on the "arcade + cinematic eye-candy" paradigm, while PC games, (both traditiona hardcore and facebook casual) are based on the "tabletop game meets utility software" paradigm.

What games are you playing? I can name a few "PC Games" that aren't tabletop-esque (Skyrim comes to mind). Besides, I think you are missing the point he was trying to make. During the PS2 era the majority of games were RPGs, 3d platformers and action adventure games; genres that are rarely marketed to the PC crowd. Nowadays, most console games are shooters and sandboxes. And there is more of an effort to port games from console to PC and vice-versa.

Ickabod:
The PC is dead, now the console is dead. Would someone make up their mind already.

I thought it had been revived once digital distribution became a thing.

Micah Weil:

Ickabod:
The PC is dead, now the console is dead. Would someone make up their mind already.

Makes sense that a number of the better games for the PC in recent years have all been about zombies...

'Cause Skyrim, Guild Wars 2, Minecraft, TERA, and Smite were all about zombies.

Vault101:

CardinalPiggles:

cidbahamut:
I feel like we're missing a more important talking point here. The console and PC experiences are beginning to converge.

I wouldn't say they're converging, more like the PC is simply adopting the only few things consoles ever had as an advantage in the great debate.

Mostly due to Steam I might add.

but look at theings on the console side

downloads....internet conections...updates and patches

seems kind of "PC"-like to me

I guess, but he did say that they're beginning to converge, so I assumed we were talking about more recent times. Those PC-like additions were soooo 10 years ago ;)

FelixG:

Your new avatar makes me chuckle, I never much cared for Mort.
.

I personally felt uncomfortable around him, like I said to walk on eggshells. Probably because of one instance where I made a thread where I talked about feeling alienated from the rest of the Escapist for my political and religious views, and he proceeded to give me shit for said views, apparently missing the irony. That thread turned sour fast.

I like the fact that PCs and hardcore are apparently mutually exclusive.

lacktheknack:
Well, this makes the long-overdrawn "PC Gaming Is Dead" sentiment that so clearly rang through these halls a mere two years look kind of hilarious, doesn't it?

Alternatively, it makes the dude making the statement look like an utter tool with no concept of what he's talking about, since console gaming has also been "on the way out" for more than a decade.

He said that consoles are the source of innovative gaming and that hardcore gamers like innovative gaming. From these two completely illogical things i decided that he knows nothing about what he is talking.

So, just to clarify, are we calling this one "EA Says Something Stupid Again"? Honestly, it's gettin' like Anonymous committing hacks of violence just to desperately stay relevent now.

I have a ps3 and it might be my last console. I have realized that maintaining a mid-tier pc is cheaper in the long run than buying multiple consoles. There is also the fact that there are not enough console exclusives coming out anymore to warrant a purchase. There are much more PC exclusives and indie titles that are usually cheaper and more enjoyable than anything that will release on consoles. I have other friends who are slowly switching over as well. I think the pc market is actually growing and starting to take over a reasonable portion of console sales.

there's always going to be a hardcore segment, a segment that likes innovation

What!? I am pretty sure the hardcore crowd has stayed away form innovation as much as possible, that's why they have their title. The wii waggle, the PS Move and Kinect are all seen as garbage by the hardcore crowd, and all of that is the "innovation" this gen has brought. They just want great games, and to make great games one doesn't necessarily need innovation at all, just skill at their craft.

Also, it's kind of funny for EA to keep making predictions of doom and gloom, especially now about people who are starting to collectively give them the finger. Spiteful much? Of course games sales are low right now, outside of a few gems like Borderlands, why on earth would they be high? The fall rush doesn't usually start until November. Yeah a lot of games just came out but most of them were crap.

HolyLiaison:

Micah Weil:
Makes sense that a number of the better games for the PC in recent years have all been about zombies...

Guild Wars 2? Planetside 2? Battlefield 3 (the console versions don't count)? Torchlight 2? Diablo 3? Starcraft 2? Sins of a Solar Empire? FTL? Kerbal Space Program? Tribes: Ascend? And these are just recent games. I barely tried and I could list a bunch.

GW2 - check
Torchlight 2 - check
Diablo 3 - check
Starcraft 2 - check
All those games have zombies, I haven't played any of the other ones...

Two-A:

Micah Weil:

Ickabod:
The PC is dead, now the console is dead. Would someone make up their mind already.

Makes sense that a number of the better games for the PC in recent years have all been about zombies...

'Cause Skyrim, Guild Wars 2, Minecraft, TERA, and Smite were all about zombies.

Minecraft is all about zombies, and zombie pigmen... and Skyrim had entire hordes of undead! Pay attention people!!

erttheking:
Nice EA, get the hardcore elitists clawing at each other. Come on we have to put up with enough of that without you dumping gas on the fire.

I recommend reading the article before commenting.

Hawkins founded EA after leaving Apple in '82, which he then left to form 3DO in '91.

Or, in other words:

SkarKrow:
I'd like to immediately point out that in the present he has fuck all to do with EA so you don't get free EA hate for this one, shame on you Escapist for even needing to put EA in the title of this article.

OT: The console market will definitely continue shrinking, seeing as every device can play games in one form or the other nowadays. Will it become 'niche', though? I have no idea.

Owning a console is equivalent to owning a jet. That has got to be, by far, the worst analogy I've heard this year, and I often make deliberately bad analogies for shits and giggles.

Is this good or bad far console gaming though? Basically more devs will leave console for PC because of restrictions I take it? Well I'm screwed due to my multiple reasons why a console is better for me right now since it'll probably be around when I move out that I get one and even then Halo 4 will be out by then so I won't be touching my PC until something like Dawn of War 3 comes out.

Now more than ever seems to be the time to play my PC a bit more rather that just using it for college work and the occasional game of Dawn of War. What the fuck was my Steam login again?

Guess I should just stop arguing against it. I'm still playing my xbox mostly though, the PC in the house is shared by the family and I prefer the exclusives of xbox.

Hero in a half shell:
Release the PS4, the Xbox Loop, the Wiiwhatever and sales will rocket back up to perfectly viable and profitable levels.

I'm gonna make a little bet with you.

I bet you 1 packet of Jammie Dodgers that the next gen of consoles doesn't sell as well as this one did.

In fact, I bet sales are going to be drastically lower.

Grey Carter:

Hawkins founded EA after leaving Apple in '82, which he then left to form 3DO in '91.

This sentence needs to be taken out and shot.

Two-A:
What games are you playing? I can name a few "PC Games" that aren't tabletop-esque (Skyrim comes to mind). Besides, I think you are missing the point he was trying to make. During the PS2 era the majority of games were RPGs, 3d platformers and action adventure games; genres that are rarely marketed to the PC crowd. Nowadays, most console games are shooters and sandboxes. And there is more of an effort to port games from console to PC and vice-versa.

I'm not denying that certain games can ignore these paradigms. Multiplatform games can be made, desperate developers can try to transport their favorite genre to the platform where they hope more money, etc.

But due to historical origin, console and PC audiences have entirely different expectations.

The idea behind the first consoles was, to bring the button-smashing fun of the arcade, to the living-room TV. Their input system, the "controller", is entirely based on moving a character around in a virtual space, while killing enemies with another button. And being hooked up to the TV gave it a sense of passive entertainment, just lay back on the couch and enjoy the spectacle.

Meanwhile, many of the early PC games, from Civilization to Elder Scrolls, were transporting older tabletop RPG and strategy traditions to the computer, while many of the new genre games, such as Sim City, or Elite, were still built to be less "instant fun", and more "economical simulation", what Yahtzee once described as "dad games", for people who are already used to dealing with calculations and menus and thinking, while sitting in an office chair and leaning towards a monitor.
The mouse and keyboard controls themselves are more appropriate for clicking on menus, scrolling through large maps, and generally controlling coplex systems such as spaceships, armies, OLD-school RPG inventories, even in an FPS, they are used for more tactics and "simulation". Note, that Yahtzee also counted Minecraft, and DayZ as "dad games".

Games like Elder Scrolls V, Mass Effect, or Fallout 3, are decent examples of a mix between PC and console values, with their control and combat simplified compared to old-school RPGs, but complicated compared to console action games, but they will inherently be on the fringe of both paradigms.

That's what kickstarter games like Project Eternity and Shaker are all about: Not nostalgia, or retro-elitism, but the feeling that these modern games are no longer being made for us.

Even when new genres, such as facebook games, are created without the influence of consoles, they will naturally be founded on traditional PC values. Farmville might be very casual, but in it's core mechanics, it is another "dad game".

viranimus:
You know .. I have been pretty lax on EA over the years. But high holy hell I am getting sick to death of EA telling us what the future will hold, when really all they are telling us is what they want the future to hold.

Just like the notion of digital downloads and multiplayer resulting in all EA games now are to have multiplayer. That would be all well and good, except for the absolutely disgusting fact they are pushing multiplayer on people. Its already begun too. Look at ME3. Sure you can finish the game without multiplayer. However if you want a decent chance, or to gain the "good" endings, you either have to play multiplayer, Buy DLC, Buy android apps, or have an Iphone. THat is not only wrong, its friggen disgusting.

So EA... Would you kindly STFU. Yes we know you want everyone online so you can better control your games and your profit. That isnt what WE want. Your starting to act like microsoft with this nonsense. Cut it out already.

Eh, this guy left EA 21 years ago. You know, if had actually read the article. I must admit though, the Escapist was pretty much begging for it by including EA in the title of article.

So pc users are casual gamers. Assumptions are stupid. Fuck this guy

FoolKiller:

SkarKrow:

Beat MegaMan 2 without taking damage. Beyond hardcore. (not done, not crazy enough, have done 9 and 10 without a death though)

=D

Did that when I was 12. Noooooo problem.

On a more serious note, the only definition of hardcore I accept is if gaming (regardless of the game/platform etc) is your primary hobby.

As for what he's saying it has some merit but not because he knows what he's talking about. The stagnation isn't even that it is the end of the consoles life cycle. The issue stems from the fact that the industries have streamlined their monetization of its products and people are fed up with it. Thus, the gamers are finding other ways to enjoy their entertainment.

The only other reason it would be niche is because there is only one video game console left: The Wii. The other two seem more interested in becoming multimedia platforms and putting gaming on a backburner.

True enough it is becoming a problem, less so with Sony these days they do still put out a lot of first party games and have some great IP's going. Microsoft are the best example of the issue, no focus on games whatsoever and a pitiful trickle of first party titles in recent years. Also the whole paying for live thing needs to end, it's just stupid, why would anyone pay to watch netflix on their xbox?

But yeah,m the multimedia thing is becoming a bigger and bigger issue, I prefer my gaming to be a bit more dedicated and I would like a bit more variety than there is at the moment, I miss last gen when crazy stuff like Viewtiful Joe would get a full disc release and be worth every flashy penny.