Greek Turmoil Delays Bohemia Interactive "Spy" Trials

Greek Turmoil Delays Bohemia Interactive "Spy" Trials

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Under Greek law, the Arma 3 developers accused of spying have to be put on trial within 120 days of arrest.

Ivan Buchta and Martin Pezlar, the two Bohemia Interactive developers currently imprisoned on espionage charges for allegedly recording images of Greek military installations, will face further delays before their first trial date. Greece is currently in the throes of a general strike, paralyzing the entire Greek judiciary system, and that means Buchta and Pezlar won't be going up in front of a judge any time soon.

Buchta and Pezlar's lawyer, Panagiotis Eleftherjoy, said that, under Greek law, the Arma 3 developers had to be on trial within 120 days of their arrest. Their arrest took place on September 9th, so there is still some time to go; but without a functional judiciary system it seems unlikely Greece will make the court date within the 120 day limit. A Czech Embassy spokesperson confirmed that "there will be no paperwork done [by the Greek Courts] until the strike is over."

There's no telling when that will happen; they're scheduled to end October 20th, but could be extended. The strikes are in protest against austerity measures - part of a €11.9 billion ($15.4 billion) austerity package - that many Greeks consider grossly unfair. Members of the Greek police, army and navy have joined the judiciary and ordinary citizens in their protest march. When German Chancellor Angela Merkel visited Greece, in what was seen as a bid to prop up the newly elected Greek government and its reforms, she was greeted by upwards of 300,000 angry protestors. Greece has received EU and IMF bailouts worth a total of €240 billion (slightly over $340 billion US) with no end in sight to its economic woes, and its continuing membership of the EU remains uncertain.

Given that, it seems unlikely that the strikes will end any time soon; Buchta and Pezlar may be waiting a very long time for their court date.

Source: Games Industry International

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I wonder what they will do if they cant get their shit together in 120 days

Thanks to Greeks avoiding paying taxes, these two may avoid trail.
Not that they would likely have been sentenced, unless they got stuck with a fascist judge.

Ghastly business. Of all the places to get stuck in legal limbo...

SRSL?! Why is Turkey on that picture labeled "Republic of Iran"?! It is alliances, but NATO influence would sort of be more correct... The US has airbases there...

rioki:
SRSL?! Why is Turkey on that picture labeled "Republic of Iran"?! It is alliances, but NATO influence would sort of be more correct... The US has airbases there...

In the game ARMA 3, Iran has annexed that region.

OT: The situation in Greece amuses me, they don't want to go bankrupt, but they don't want to do the things to reach solvency. They want to have their cake and eat it to.

Rainboq:

rioki:
SRSL?! Why is Turkey on that picture labeled "Republic of Iran"?! It is alliances, but NATO influence would sort of be more correct... The US has airbases there...

In the game ARMA 3, Iran has annexed that region.

OT: The situation in Greece amuses me, they don't want to go bankrupt, but they don't want to do the things to reach solvency. They want to have their cake and eat it to.

It's not as simple as that. The people going on strike there are poor and middle class people who have to pay for the austerity program with brutal cuts while the rich people who caused the crisis by dodging taxes for decades are still not going to pay any taxes. Hell, there is even a law exempting ship owners (the richest people in Greece) from paying any taxes at all and this law is STILL not being touched.

I am German. My country is vouching for Greece with a lot of money. I agree with that. But I also agree with normal, hard working Greek people who are pissed about the situation down there.

In Greece the privately owned capital is about four times as big as the whole national debt. Half of that total capital is owned by 10% of the Greek people. And those 10% are hardly paying any taxes at all. I can understand more than well why the other 90% think that is fucked up especially since now THEY are getting the shit end of the stick again with the cuts.

Ah, Greece. You're not just an example of how not to tax, trade, spend, hire, do business, be efficient, and make sure it's populace aren't entitled cunts... nope, you now take the illustrious position of also having a broken legal system!

Congratulations Greece. You've taken the coveted position of:

Retard of the century

RoonMian:

Rainboq:

rioki:
SRSL?! Why is Turkey on that picture labeled "Republic of Iran"?! It is alliances, but NATO influence would sort of be more correct... The US has airbases there...

In the game ARMA 3, Iran has annexed that region.

OT: The situation in Greece amuses me, they don't want to go bankrupt, but they don't want to do the things to reach solvency. They want to have their cake and eat it to.

It's not as simple as that. The people going on strike there are poor and middle class people who have to pay for the austerity program with brutal cuts while the rich people who caused the crisis by dodging taxes for decades are still not going to pay any taxes. Hell, there is even a law exempting ship owners (the richest people in Greece) from paying any taxes at all and this law is STILL not being touched.

I am German. My country is vouching for Greece with a lot of money. I agree with that. But I also agree with normal, hard working Greek people who are pissed about the situation down there.

In Greece the privately owned capital is about four times as big as the whole national debt. Half of that total capital is owned by 10% of the Greek people. And those 10% are hardly paying any taxes at all. I can understand more than well why the other 90% think that is fucked up especially since now THEY are getting the shit end of the stick again with the cuts.

Makes sense, the Turkey bit, so much for a picture out of context... (On the other hand why would Turkey want to be an ally of Iran? It is more likly that the US becomes a authoritarian state, than Turkey "sliding east".)

On the subject of Greece, I can totally understand why the people are upset. For reference, look into the US "great depression" and what went down there. The people on the street are not the ones who caused it and it is clear why they are upset. I can also see why they hate the world (especially Germany) for it all, since they are imposing the austerity program. But on an European scale a default of Greece is simply not acceptable. The big question is, would they be better off if Greece defaults; probably no. The difference is they would be mad at the right people, those in power (money == power).

rioki:

RoonMian:

Rainboq:
In the game ARMA 3, Iran has annexed that region.

OT: The situation in Greece amuses me, they don't want to go bankrupt, but they don't want to do the things to reach solvency. They want to have their cake and eat it to.

It's not as simple as that. The people going on strike there are poor and middle class people who have to pay for the austerity program with brutal cuts while the rich people who caused the crisis by dodging taxes for decades are still not going to pay any taxes. Hell, there is even a law exempting ship owners (the richest people in Greece) from paying any taxes at all and this law is STILL not being touched.

I am German. My country is vouching for Greece with a lot of money. I agree with that. But I also agree with normal, hard working Greek people who are pissed about the situation down there.

In Greece the privately owned capital is about four times as big as the whole national debt. Half of that total capital is owned by 10% of the Greek people. And those 10% are hardly paying any taxes at all. I can understand more than well why the other 90% think that is fucked up especially since now THEY are getting the shit end of the stick again with the cuts.

Makes sense, the Turkey bit, so much for a picture out of context... (On the other hand why would Turkey want to be an ally of Iran? It is more likly that the US becomes a authoritarian state, than Turkey "sliding east".)

On the subject of Greece, I can totally understand why the people are upset. For reference, look into the US "great depression" and what went down there. The people on the street are not the ones who caused it and it is clear why they are upset. I can also see why they hate the world (especially Germany) for it all, since they are imposing the austerity program. But on an European scale a default of Greece is simply not acceptable. The big question is, would they be better off if Greece defaults; probably no. The difference is they would be mad at the right people, those in power (money == power).

It's actually not Germany who is demanding the harsh austerity but the whole EU and the IWF (wait, I don't think it's called IWF in English. Something like "international currency fund", maybe?). Being the biggest nation and biggest spender in the EU and being a bit conservative on the issue of solidarity amongst the nations of the EU Germany is just the biggest and easiest targets for Greeks to direct their hate at. But actually, Germany is the biggest ally of Greece in this mess.

And to the question of Germany or the rest of the EU would be better off if Greece defaults: That's not a "probably no", that's a "definitely no". Greece cannot default while being in the Euro zone because then they would take the whole Euro down with them. Then everyone would have to go back to their own currency and that would cost Germany alone 3 times as much as the state of Germany rakes in in revenue each year according to a study that the German party that actually wants to kick Greece out commisioned. But kicking Greece out of the Euro zone would still cost way more than saving them because first all the money Germany and the rest of the EU vouched for would be gone and secondly while Greece wouldn't be a member of the Euro zone anymore they still would be a member of the EU and the other nations would still be obliged to help them in a time of crisis.

And crisis they would have, big time. They would have to madly devalue their old/new currency. On the one hand that would be good for greek exports. The only problem with that would be that Greece doesn't really export that much of value. Only wine, cheese and olives more or less and almost only to other EU countries. But Spain, Italy and France export that stuff too and the EU would have to protect them from cheap Greek imports with tolls. So Greek exports would come to a screetching halt. And imports would stop too simply because they couldn't afford them anymore due to their shitty currency. Greek wouldn't be able to import food, medicine and gas anymore.

So no more food, medicine and gas. An avalanche of companies going bancrupt. Capital fleeing the country. Inside half a year Greece would plummet from first world into third world. No society is able to take that and you have to remember that until 1974, not even 40 years ago, Greece had still been a military dictatorship. They could easily fall into that again maybe even through a civil war. Again, they would be still part of the EU though so the other Nations would have to help them out with help programs and in the worst case even with a military intervention. Bailing them out now is definitely the better solution, not only from a financial point of view but from a humanitarian one as well. Don't forget, the EU wasn't founded for Germany and France to keep their money together but to ensure peace and prosperity in all of Europe. That's why the EU just got the Nobel Price for peace.

So, what happens if they don't get a trial date within the time limit? Are the charges dropped and they walk free? Are they released on some kind of bail and have to face the charges again in the future? Or do they just rot in jail? I'd hope they walk away, but in part that is because the espionage charges are a load of crap. But not many countries are willing to let someone charged with spying just get off, so will they basically find a loophole and ignore the law to keep them? And what about other people waiting trial, possibly for more serious charges, do they get a free pass for assault and murder?

It sounds like a real mess.

Man I hope this doesn't hold back Arma 3's release date...

What?! we are all thinking it!

I would suggest before you guys start pointing fingers and laugh/get upset/whatever that you do your research.

Additionally, I have no idea how this thing works inside people's heads: how you equalize people with a country and give it characteristics of a person. How can a country be a retard? How can its populace ALL be entitled cunts -- a logical conclusion itself too false to even refute? You know, I don't like it that these guys are still in jail but compared to the shit that's going right now, not to mention that they did commit a crime, it's a trivial case. The politicians are practically robbing the country and its people from everything they own, implementing "measures" that make work little more than slavery, putting up this facade that we can even pay off this debt by amassing more debt with huge interest (please, guys, don't tell me that you lack the basic logic to understand that paying for debts with more debts just doesn't work. What if I told you that the IMF/ECB/EC has admitted, not that it was necessary, that the austerity isn't working out, yet they demand some more of it? You make it out yourselves). We are already practically living in a dictatorship/rising fascist state and the big guys are out free -- and you expect a single case to receive special attention just because the culprits are, what, video game developers?

I can really understand how you guys from the other end of the world fall for all this. You don't live here and you have to base your opinions on the lies of the media and prominent simplifications. I've stopped expecting people to use their own head. Sometimes though, the line does get crossed.

RoonMian:
It's actually not Germany who is demanding the harsh austerity but the whole EU and the IWF (wait, I don't think it's called IWF in English. Something like "international currency fund", maybe?).

In English the acronym is IMF for International Monetary Fund.

Cubilone:
I would suggest before you guys start pointing fingers and laugh/get upset/whatever that you do your research.

Additionally, I have no idea how this thing works inside people's heads: how you equalize people with a country and give it characteristics of a person. How can a country be a retard? How can its populace ALL be entitled cunts -- a logical conclusion itself too false to even refute? You know, I don't like it that these guys are still in jail but compared to the shit that's going right now, not to mention that they did commit a crime, it's a trivial case. The politicians are practically robbing the country and its people from everything they own, implementing "measures" that make work little more than slavery, putting up this facade that we can even pay off this debt by amassing more debt with huge interest (please, guys, don't tell me that you lack the basic logic to understand that paying for debts with more debts just doesn't work. What if I told you that the IMF/ECB/EC has admitted, not that it was necessary, that the austerity isn't working out, yet they demand some more of it? You make it out yourselves). We are already practically living in a dictatorship/rising fascist state and the big guys are out free -- and you expect a single case to receive special attention just because the culprits are, what, video game developers?

I can really understand how you guys from the other end of the world fall for all this. You don't live here and you have to base your opinions on the lies of the media and prominent simplifications. I've stopped expecting people to use their own head. Sometimes though, the line does get crossed.

Crazier still, we have all the same problems here in the States. They just aren't as devastating yet (and likely won't be for the foreseeable future). Austerity isn't good for Greece, or even for Europe. But even among enemies, royalty doesn't get treated like the common rabble. So even from the perspective of other nations, the Greek royalty must maintain their lifestyle even if Greece suffers. Austerity is for the weak and disenfranchised.

Your countries invented the model and perpetuate it, ye who would judge. Whatever, don't worry about that plank in your eye, just leave it.

Royas:
So, what happens if they don't get a trial date within the time limit? Are the charges dropped and they walk free? Are they released on some kind of bail and have to face the charges again in the future? Or do they just rot in jail? I'd hope they walk away, but in part that is because the espionage charges are a load of crap. But not many countries are willing to let someone charged with spying just get off, so will they basically find a loophole and ignore the law to keep them? And what about other people waiting trial, possibly for more serious charges, do they get a free pass for assault and murder?

It sounds like a real mess.

Like in all democratic systems, first nothing, then you can sue for damages. That is what it means. Like the constitution, you can't prevent the president or law makers from breaking it, all you can do is bring it up in court and have decisions reverted and damages paid.

Lono Shrugged:
Man I hope this doesn't hold back Arma 3's release date...

What?! we are all thinking it!

I'm certainly not. I think ARMA is a terrible game series, but there are others who disagree and love the game.

I'm just curious as to how the spying thing came up.

Ralen-Sharr:

Lono Shrugged:
Man I hope this doesn't hold back Arma 3's release date...

What?! we are all thinking it!

I'm certainly not. I think ARMA is a terrible game series, but there are others who disagree and love the game.

I'm just curious as to how the spying thing came up.

I am a fan since Operation Flashpoint back in the day and have always admired the devs dedication that split them from codemasters to focus on the simulation aspect. Horses for courses I suppose!

I do hope they get out soon. They are basically huge nerds who were nerding out and it kind of blew up in their faces.

 

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