Science Suggests We're Living in the Matrix

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So, anyone know how to turn off the blood code?

CrazyGirl17:
...Well, someone's reaching for a conclusion... I mean, if this was a computer simulation, wouldn't it be, I dunno, more interesting? Hell, I'd love to be able to do all that bullet time stuff...

Yea but then you would know, so you'd become the one and start a war with our bear overlords who run the simulation which in turn would alert the bear's zebra overlords who would unplug the bear's matrix thus killing us.

And that's why bullet time doesn't work.

TopazFusion:
This isn't news to me. I got my trusty tinfoil hat on.

Ohhh, the things I could tell you.

For instance, did you know th- ...

image

bladester1:
Dear God! Its Star Ocean: Til the End of Time all over again!! /vomits. On another point was the ps3 international edition of star ocean: a new hope any better than the 360 version?

When in doubt, iddqd.

Not G. Ivingname:
THIS KNOWLEDGE NEEDS TO BE SPREAD! D:

HOW LONG BEFORE THE MACHINES WIPE OUR MEMORIE-

...

What were we talking about?

Ahhh, a null pointer is talking !

geldonyetich:
Sounds like a "chicken or the egg" thing to me.

In the sense that it's already "solved" by now as eggs came first given dinosaurs had eggs long before chickens appeared ?

TeletubbiesGolfGun:

you are quite literally playing all the wrong games then.

every single person i know would fucking love it to live in the world of pokemon/star wars/mass effect.

seriously, how could you NOT want to live in some of those worlds?

Well, Nintendo games aside, Mass Effect and and Star Wars are perfect examples of how anyone who's not a hero takes it up the ass.

I'm saying if life was a video game, it'd be the kind where lots of folks die, not the kind where we can talk to animals with magical powers to team up and fight terrorist organizations that don't actually kill people.

You really want to get blown to bits by the reapers?

Christopher Callahan:

What if this is their idea of fulfillment?

What if the milky way is actually god's right nut?

Now we're in to the realm of conjecture based on nothing.

And we were already pretty close with "energy limit=matrix"

wildpeaks:

geldonyetich:
Sounds like a "chicken or the egg" thing to me.

In the sense that it's already "solved" by now as eggs came first given dinosaurs had eggs long before chickens appeared ?

Unless we find something that precedes entire universes, I don't think it's that simple. The question still stands even if the metaphor's wording doesn't.

But if you ask me: existence came before the simulation.

Innegativeion:

TeletubbiesGolfGun:

you are quite literally playing all the wrong games then.

every single person i know would fucking love it to live in the world of pokemon/star wars/mass effect.

seriously, how could you NOT want to live in some of those worlds?

Well, Nintendo games aside, Mass Effect and and Star Wars are perfect examples of how anyone who's not a hero takes it up the ass.

I'm saying if life was a video game, it'd be the kind where lots of folks die, not the kind where we can talk to animals with magical powers to team up and fight terrorist organizations that don't actually kill people.

You really want to get blown to bits by the reapers?

Christopher Callahan:

What if this is their idea of fulfillment?

What if the milky way is actually god's right nut?

Now we're in to the realm of conjecture based on nothing.

And we were already pretty close with "energy limit=matrix"

that is, if you stay EXACTLY to their storyline, if you just use the worlds physics/atmosphere, it doesn't have to be EXACTLY like that, if i took the world of mass effect, i don't have to jump in RIGHT at the reaper part, wait..

you know what, i would fucking love that, i could change that hogwash of a shitstain underwear that ending is, I COULD BE MARAUDER SHIELDS! I COULD STOP IT FROM HAPPENING!

yes...yes...excellent...

LOL now i will forever think of the milky way as the milky nut sack... every time a meteor is gonna hit it's actually a kidney stone taking its course :D

ascorbius:

The_Waspman:
I'm calling bullshit on this.

If videogames have tought me anything its that you cant even enter a building without a fucking loading screen.

No loading screens in real life? Well then its not a fucking simulation, is it?

Think about it, If there were loading screens, you wouldn't see them - your simulation would be paused while more data is loaded. Only those who made the simulation would notice anything happening at all.
Actually, you'd be experiencing time at a completely different rate to what the creators of the simulation were.

I've thought about this before 13th floor kind-of gave me the nudge..

Consider this: we continue to make advances in science, things are becoming more complex from what we remember growing up - It stands to reason that there is a chance that this is because they keep upgrading the simulation machine and over time it can handle more levels of detail, just like most of us do with our PCs.. We're just in something like a massively complex CryEngine or something like that. We don't notice the upgrade because they pause the simulation for perform them.

And if it was God who crated the simulation, think about this... what happens to computer programs on your PC when you close them down? Do their souls go to your hard drive? No, they stop running and the memory they allocated is used by something else... They never spill out onto your desk. They can never leave the digital world.

There is no afterlife if this is a simulation... Even if there is a God, you're going to heaven no more than Gordon Freeman will - and we like Gordon Freeman - He does noble work. When we close Half-Life, Gordon Freeman ceases to exist in memory and remains only on your hard drive as a set of instructions needed to create Gordon Freeman the next time you want to play.

Also, if this is a simulation, there is no free will as we're set on a pre-programmed path where our actions are based on stimulus and reaction - It's just so complex we perceive it as free will. Think about it, when was the last time you made a truly independent decision which wasn't based on outside factors or a learned response to some other stimulus?

Oh lord. I knew, just knew I shouldn't have commented on this topic. Nothing personal against you mate, but We had a lot of debates about this back when I was at university (shortly after the matrix came out) and most of the arguments haven't changed. Besides, I was just attempting to be snarky. Anyway, to respond to some points...

You say things are becoming more complex. I assume from that you mean our technological advances, and our understanding, on a societal level as opposed to everyone being morons when they were kids. So in a similar way to how graphical improvements have been made in video games, yes? Well, I cant really buy that. Just because we now 'understand' more about subatomic behaviour (or whatever) now than we did 200 years ago, wouldn't really mean that this stuff has just been patched in. There is just far too much complexity for this all to be a simulation, basically because:

Daverson:
Of course, the theory falls apart when you come to the realization that the hardware for said simulation would have a finite amount of computing power available, so wouldn't be able to run infinite nestled simulations (and, realistically speaking, probably wouldn't be able to run even a single nestled simulation)

This. Even if we were all just programs (as opposed to organisms plugged into some huge virtual reality) there are far far too many of us (as well as every other organism, and hell, everything else in the universe) far any computer system to realistically be able to process. Even if we were all part of some amazingly advanced technological system, we would all be existing within it as it ran in real time, without any glitches at all. At all!?

Nope, still not buying it.

As for your point about our decision making abilities, well, none of us have any individuality anyway. If you look at Memetics (actual memetics, not all this internet shit about Chuck Norris being the worlds most badass pony or whatever) then all any of us are, as 'individuals', are collections of a great number of different social and cultural replicators. Thats one of the reasons we have evolved in the way we have. Does that support your - I dont really want to use the word 'argument', because it carries too much confrontational weight, and as I said, I'm not having a go at you, its more this topic - so lets say your supposition, than it does mine? Well, probably.

Captcha: partly to blame. Yeah, thanks captcha, thanks a lot.

Given how there's mathematical patterns that replicate themselves all the way up to the structures of Galaxies and Dark Matter... I wouldn't be surprised.

Does beg the question what sort of sick bastard is killing people.

It does make you feel slightly guilty about killing NPCs.

Like Terry P's book Only you can Save Mankind.

Science Suggests We're Living in the Matrix

"It may not be proof that we're living in the Matrix, but it is a pretty cool idea."

-____-

So all this stuff can imply we're living in a simulation.

And what if we're not? Could this stuff apply even if we're not actually living in a simulation?

Are we right back to square one with "Maybe, but then again maybe not."?

wildpeaks:

geldonyetich:
Sounds like a "chicken or the egg" thing to me.

In the sense that it's already "solved" by now as eggs came first given dinosaurs had eggs long before chickens appeared ?

Silly human.

Worms were laying eggs way before dinosaurs were.

The_Waspman:
You say things are becoming more complex. I assume from that you mean our technological advances, and our understanding, on a societal level as opposed to everyone being morons when they were kids. So in a similar way to how graphical improvements have been made in video games, yes? Well, I cant really buy that. Just because we now 'understand' more about subatomic behaviour (or whatever) now than we did 200 years ago, wouldn't really mean that this stuff has just been patched in. There is just far too much complexity for this all to be a simulation, basically because:

Daverson:
Of course, the theory falls apart when you come to the realization that the hardware for said simulation would have a finite amount of computing power available, so wouldn't be able to run infinite nestled simulations (and, realistically speaking, probably wouldn't be able to run even a single nestled simulation)

This. Even if we were all just programs (as opposed to organisms plugged into some huge virtual reality) there are far far too many of us (as well as every other organism, and hell, everything else in the universe) far any computer system to realistically be able to process.

No. Your puny human imagination is simply incapable of understanding just how advanced computer shit can get.

The_Waspman:
Even if we were all part of some amazingly advanced technological system, we would all be existing within it as it ran in real time, without any glitches at all. At all!?

What makes you think that there are no glitches?

thethird0611:
This seems alot more like philosophy than science, but with a little science (or theory) thrown in. It sounds just like the brain in a jar theory, and one's like it.

Yeah, both of them seem to just be offshoots of solipsism. But I guess adding a little science is always nice, because philosophy doesn't exactly make the news :P

So how come that every time I pick up the phone, I never wake up into the real world?

Scrythe:

Lectori Salutem:
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A
IDDQD
greedisgood
it is a good day to die
rosebud
nwcalreadygotone

...

... Well, damn...

SupahGamuh:

impulse 101
bewareoblivionisathand
thereisnocowlevel
idkfa

...

nothing...

image

power overwheling
corwin of amber
+zool
Square, Triangle, X, Space, Circle

Well, I'm all out of ideas.

Press X to jason!

AMIDOINGITRIGHT.jpg

OT: This is what science is doing now? Oh how the might have fallen .

Sounds like the Thirteenth Floor was right. That is a big surprise.

Makes more sense to me than any religion ever has lol.

It is a simulation... within a simulation... within a simulation.

We have to go deeper!

cotss2012:
Well, this explains why my personal belongings do not obey the law of conservation of mass-energy.

itchcrotch:
Here's a mind-fuck though! 1 = positive energy yes?

No

itchcrotch:
Then what does 0 equate to?

The absence of energy.

itchcrotch:
Most would say "negative energy!"

No, they wouldn't, because most people aren't stupid enough to think of "negative energy" as a thing that exists.

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings dude.

I've always considered thought experiments like this to be nonsensical and silly. I am not yet swayed from this opinion.

Lemme just try something here...

~
sv_cheats 1

...

Nope. I don't buy it.

On a more serious note, if we are living in a nested simulation...what is powering it all? What if that power source were to fail? Would the universe just stop? or "turn off"?

Is time perceived slower through a nested simulation (like "Inception")?

These questions need answers...because...why not?

The_Waspman:

Oh lord. I knew, just knew I shouldn't have commented on this topic. Nothing personal against you mate, but We had a lot of debates about this back when I was at university (shortly after the matrix came out) and most of the arguments haven't changed. Besides, I was just attempting to be snarky. Anyway, to respond to some points...

You say things are becoming more complex. I assume from that you mean our technological advances, and our understanding, on a societal level as opposed to everyone being morons when they were kids. So in a similar way to how graphical improvements have been made in video games, yes? Well, I cant really buy that. Just because we now 'understand' more about subatomic behaviour (or whatever) now than we did 200 years ago, wouldn't really mean that this stuff has just been patched in. There is just far too much complexity for this all to be a simulation, basically because:

Daverson:
Of course, the theory falls apart when you come to the realization that the hardware for said simulation would have a finite amount of computing power available, so wouldn't be able to run infinite nestled simulations (and, realistically speaking, probably wouldn't be able to run even a single nestled simulation)

This. Even if we were all just programs (as opposed to organisms plugged into some huge virtual reality) there are far far too many of us (as well as every other organism, and hell, everything else in the universe) far any computer system to realistically be able to process. Even if we were all part of some amazingly advanced technological system, we would all be existing within it as it ran in real time, without any glitches at all. At all!?

Nope, still not buying it.

As for your point about our decision making abilities, well, none of us have any individuality anyway. If you look at Memetics (actual memetics, not all this internet shit about Chuck Norris being the worlds most badass pony or whatever) then all any of us are, as 'individuals', are collections of a great number of different social and cultural replicators. Thats one of the reasons we have evolved in the way we have. Does that support your - I dont really want to use the word 'argument', because it carries too much confrontational weight, and as I said, I'm not having a go at you, its more this topic - so lets say your supposition, than it does mine? Well, probably.

Captcha: partly to blame. Yeah, thanks captcha, thanks a lot.

Don't worry mate, I'm not serious on this - far too old for that. It is an interesting thought experiment though.

No silicone heaven? Where would all the calculators go?

As long as we get cool giant mechs to shoot down tentacle monsters, I'm cool.

TimeLord:
So who's our Neo?

That's a great question. EMT?

Whoa. XD When do we learn Kung fu and are able to dodge bullets?

Sounds more like philsophy than science, and a demonstration of where they can intersect (despite people claiming they exist seperatly). Basically science has hit a limit and this is one of the reasons people can think of to explain that limit.

Truthfully I think the limits understood by science now, including those established by Einstein, will be disproven given enough time. They are simply our equivilent of the barriers hit by scientists and thinkers from earlier periods.

There is also the issue of motive in any kind of construct of this sort. Arguements about universes being created to learn from them fall apart when you consider the nessicary knowlege to create all the variables and details to begin with. This of course leads back to the whole idea of god being unknowable, albiet in the form of an intelligence to vast as to be alien to us in it's motives and manner of thinking.

In short I don't give much credit to the idea of "The Matrix" or "The Thirteenth Floor" or "Dark City" (another take on the same thing, albiet without the computer simulation, and direct reality control), though they are interesting thought experiments.

we would all be existing within it as it ran in real time, without any glitches at all. At all!?

Who says there were no glitches? Maybe that's what caused several of the mass extinctions :) A lot of weird things happen that we still have no clear explanation for. Those might be glitches. Heck, those weird undersea noises? Glitches! Wee!

Just saying.

Your hardware argument also fails, because it assumes computers have to be about as powerful as they are now, which is a pretty asinine argument. It also assumes that our current limits are the limits of any computing ever in any universe with any set of natural laws, which is completely silly.

I don't actually believe that we live in a simulation, but so far, not a single argument in this thread is a logical rebuttal. Most of these are either ignorant, assume things that are untrue (such as your posting), don't understand basic methods of science, or lack internal logic.

fall apart when you consider the nessicary knowlege to create all the variables and details to begin with.

Take this one. This assumes that the universe running us would have our laws. This is a stupid assumption, because it might have ANY laws, including laws totally alien to ours. You can similate anything. You need no knowledge of how things are exactly in a simulation, you just set them as is and see what happens. If this were a simulation, it might simply be one of many random ones.

Cthulhu might be simulating us to amuse his kids (the hellspawn of f'tagn'shay). Lovecraft? Actually his self insert!

Not to burst the bubble, but the GZK is a theoretical upper limit. It hasn't been proven.

Please use proper words. Using "theory" or "theoretical" in a scientific context like you do makes everything you say invalid, because you evidently don't understand basic science and concepts that are at the very core of it.

So if no-one is looking, things don't exist. Sounds an awful lot like they're saving on processing power to me.

No, they still exist, they just are between states.

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but a quick check on Wikipedia says that, while the limit is about 8 joules, we have detected rays up to 50 joules. Close, but not close enough.

Aegis
Cheese Steak Jimmy's
Bigdaddy

Awww...

Leemaster777:
Guys, guys, I think all of you are missing the big picture here.

Okay, what do we all use the internet for? That's right, porn. So, theoretically, the beings that created OUR universe would use THEIR internet for porn, too.

I think we all know what needs to be done now. If our universe really IS a giant simulation, then we need to scour the universe for the ancient super-porn made by our creators. And it will be glorious.

All of my Rage.

Does that mean the big bang was someone pressing the power button and the guy who did that is our God?

Because he wanted to see us hump.

I bet he looks nothing like us. And watching us bump uglies is his society's version of Furry porn.

RJ 17:
Serously...

The problem I have with this is that it would therefor have to assume that we, as we currently exist, are nothing but computer programs ourselves. If you start a simulation and plug your entire society into it. All the people in the simulation would be virtual representatives of the people outside the simulation in reality. If the virtual representations advanced enough to create another simulation and plug everyone into that, then that would mean that the 2nd simulation is filled with virtual representations of virtual representations. So from that point on, all future simulations would be filled with virtualized virtual beings.

Then there's the question of who the hell started it all? Are we to assume that humans are that ancient of a species? Or that the Reapers created a virtual universe that simulates nature perfectly so that the simulation itself can create entire ficticious species such as humanity just by running the numbers?

Couple of problems here. First is the assumption that you would only create a simulation to "plug" in outsiders. The other is that you could create a simulation of the universe from inside the universe. Without loss in detail you cannot. You can create rules for a system and see what happens. However to simulate every particle in the system your simulator has to be at least the same size as what you are simulating. To an extent of course. There is the possibility that with some new technology you could simulate more than one particle with one particle, but then it turns out you need that information in your perfect simulation and at that point you might as well have built a new universe.

Yay! This means we could be one digital catalyst away from becoming a Digimon!

... Right! Time to prepare for the day one of us punches a Computerized god in the face!

wildpeaks:

geldonyetich:
Sounds like a "chicken or the egg" thing to me.

In the sense that it's already "solved" by now as eggs came first given dinosaurs had eggs long before chickens appeared ?

The riddle implies it's specifically a chicken egg, but hey, what a classic example of forum logic.

Scrythe:

Lectori Salutem:
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A
IDDQD
greedisgood
it is a good day to die
rosebud
nwcalreadygotone

...

... Well, damn...

SupahGamuh:

impulse 101
bewareoblivionisathand
thereisnocowlevel
idkfa

...

nothing...

image

power overwheling
corwin of amber
+zool
Square, Triangle, X, Space, Circle

Well, I'm all out of ideas.

You're all thinking about it wrong, see this universe clearly does have cheats, they're just in the form of scientific equations. Look up quantum levitation, for example. And I'm pretty sure thanks to aeronautics we now have the ability to fly, assisted with the proper tech. Also, a science place recently shot two trillion watt lasers together and created an atom. Sounds like a cheat code to me.

ascorbius:
-major snippage-

Don't worry mate, I'm not serious on this - far too old for that. It is an interesting thought experiment though.

No silicone heaven? Where would all the calculators go?

Something else that bugs me about this idea is just... what about all the seemingly pointless shit? Like Jedward, Spiders, and Masturbation? Why would anyone (or anything) create a simulation with these things in them?

Dont get me wrong, if I'm going to look at this discussion seriously, I will readily admit, that from a biological perspective, then yes, all we are are programs. We are vessels run by our genetic and memetic programming, and there is no real point to existance outside of that.

But to consider that everything, everything is inside a technological system that has been artifically constructed? No, I just cant buy that. Because... Chaos.

God damn it science, I love you, but sometimes you're so obsessed with finding the answers you dont realise you're gazing into the abyss!

TeletubbiesGolfGun:
*snip*

Bear in mind you could just as easily wind up on planet alderaan.

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