10-Year-Old Borrows Steamy Gay Sex Manga From Local Library

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The main thing to consider here:

There may be indeed be materials in those collections that some parents do not want their children to access, but the responsibility for setting those boundaries lies with the parents, not the libraries.

If you cannot adequately supervise your child(ren), be prepared for life's little....well, oddities.

IMO, fault lies with the parent.

Zhukov:
This article upsets me.

Mostly because I have no idea how to pronounce "yaoi".

I mean, three vowels and a "y"? Come on, what the hell?

yuh-ow-ee is how I've been pronouncing it for the past few years but I could be wrong. Damn japanese and their completely seperate linguistic development!

OT: Meh, there's tonnes of that stuff on the internet ready for ten year olds to access anyway via a quick google search.

Though yaoi does tend to be a fair bit rapey...

Silly girl, at her age I was using the internet for that stuff. And I turned out...fine?

I could understand someone not knowing what yaoi means, but there really isn't an excuse when the comic is labeled with Parental Advisory. The library done goofed up. On the other hand, I'm wondering if Mr. De Nevers is offended by libraries distributing pornography to children, or if he's offended by libraries distributing gay pornography to children.

Blaming the parents (or the uncle) is just a little bit ridiculous. Didn't you ever go to the library without adult supervision? If it really is such a big deal, then the library should the one to make sure that this material isn't available to minors. You might as well be showing porn after the Saturday morning cartoons and then blaming parents for not regulating what their kids are watching.

I agree with both sides but I side moreso with the library in this case simply because of the slippery slope of censorship and book burning and all that nasty business. However, quite honestly, I do think it's a reasonable expectation that "Paul Goes to Summer Camp" not be located directly next to "People Fucking in Public Places".

Also, I'm confused by the fact that a comic is listed as "non-fiction" as though the cartoon images are based on actual events. I mean, there DO exist non-fiction comic books, but I'm betting this one ain't based on real events. At least I should hope not.

Reveras:

FelixG:

Yeah the 'policy' wouldn't hold up very well if taken to any court, pretty much like any EULA.

The fact is, it is pornography, it belongs to the library, they provided it to a pre-teen, doesnt matter if they whine "But in our EULA it says that its the paaareeennnts responsibility!" because then any store could go off selling whatever they want to anyone they want saying "well if the parents didnt want their kids to have the porn/cigs/alcohol/ect they shoulda been watching them closer!"

And as soon as he saw the parental advisory sticker (Which the library entertainingly didn't even bother to provide, it was from the publisher) he DID look into it.

Before this I didnt even know libraries lent out porn, so I have little doubt he didnt know either.

If the policy doesn't hold up in court then you live in a broken country. The code of conduct is considered a law. It's as simple as that, if you don't respect it, you can be taken to court on account of that. Their code of conduct is very clear there, they are not responsible for what ensues if the parent does not check his child. And what you said about that alcohol/cig comparison is just plain gibberish because those items are straight up outlawed to children because they are a clear way of hurting them. Books can influence but not break a person, it's why they are subjected to the "check them before you let your kids read them" treatment. Certain books that are considered to be of adult age are read by children as a means to make them think and inspire them, take "The Picture of Dorian Gray" as a prime example and pretty much anything that Alexandre Dumas has ever written as well.

What this guy said. There is no legal age restriction on books. Hell, if a 12 year old wanted to check out A Clockwork Orange and American Psycho, not only would people not complain, they would be compliment them on their mature reading ability.

So after a fast Google it, it looks like many other manga's out there only diff seems to be is the it happens to be a gay romance OMFG.(insert link to peter griffin saying "OMG whoo the hell caaaares") The adult in question failed abit on parenting and the libery kinda for letting the kid have it.....i guess. But really your not totaly stupid/ignorant of the world, even at that age. Just another case of lazy parenting and the fact its in the USA and the homosexual topic is always handled by retards and overwhelmingly poorly. Its 2012 ffs. And like many others have pointed out 50 SHADES OF GREY.....dont really need to point out the double standard here do I?

Nile McMorrow:
Wait a minute... what am I seeing here?

Grey Carter:

..."Hero Heel 2" was catalogued as Adult Non-Fiction. All non-fiction titles, including children's non-fiction, are shelved together.

. Am I reading this right? This manga was classed as non-fiction? Wow. Either this 10 year old girl is good at checking out books under a different classification or there's a whole veil thats been lifted revealing that yaoi graphic novels are considered a learning material.

Either that or they are all documentaries on the lives of the contemporary Japanese youth...

Zhukov:
This article upsets me.

Mostly because I have no idea how to pronounce "yaoi".

I mean, three vowels and a "y"? Come on, what the hell?

In my head, it sounds like 'Yow-oy', but that's just me.

All I can think about after reading this is "HAH, in your face!"
Trying to think of a more intelligent comment, but every time I try to think it's like someone in my head is yelling "IN YOUR FACE!"

I like the repsonse that the library gave, as they stated it is the responsibility of the parents to make sure their children don't get material that they don't approve of.

So you guys have full on pornographic, visual novels in your libraries? I wonder if we do as well in Australia, though I certainly haven't seen any.

Also where is the limit? Do libraries also stock Husler or even pornographic DvD's? That they let any pre-adult rent them is troubling as well but I suppose I can't talk as I sure as shit looked at internet porn before I was 18.

I am a librarian. This is the kind of ethics thing we discuss all the time.

Should we have literature with unsavoury sexual content? If not, do we bann Nobel prize winner Elfriede Jelinek? If we allow her books because she is so obviously "art", where do we draw the line? Are books like "50 shades" OK? Is it OK as long as there are no pictures? And what about racism? There are so many books that are horribly racist, but get a free pass because they are classics, or just historically accurate.

It comes down to why we have libraries, and what guidelines are set up for that particular library. A school library has a goal different from a local library branch, or a national library. The limits are set by what kind of library it is, and what the library budget will permit.

There is also the matter of sooooo many people, both adults and children, thinking that anything with drawn pictures in it is for children. And funny.

A good librarian helps you find what you want, even if you did not know it existed. At one library where I worked, we were explicitly forbidden to even frown if someone wanted to check out something we thought might be unsuitable, out of respect for the client and her right to choose her own information. (We also had to smile and explain this when the angry parents or teachers complained.)

Zeriah:
So you guys have full on pornographic, visual novels in your libraries? I wonder if we do as well in Australia, though I certainly haven't seen any.

Also where is the limit? Do libraries also stock Husler or even pornographic DvD's? That they let any pre-adult rent them is troubling as well but I suppose I can't talk as I sure as shit looked at internet porn before I was 18.

It's not porn from what I can tell, it's just sexual. It's an adult-oriented romance novel, it has it's sex scenes and whatnot but it's about the story more so than the sex. A porn one would be...just sex. :P

It's like a gay 50 shades of grey thing, in manga form.

Zeriah:
So you guys have full on pornographic, visual novels in your libraries? I wonder if we do as well in Australia.

Also where is the limit? Do libraries also stock Husler and even pornographic DvD's?

Don't know about yaoi manga (don't read manga much), but it's not unusual for me to come across raunchy gay novels while looking through books in general, so I imagine it'd be the same for the manga.

Anyway, I kind of have to side with the guy, since the novel isn't non-fiction it really shouldn't have been labelled as such. If it had been in the adult fiction section, then there would have been a lot less chance of her picking it up, unless she was intentionally looking for that sort of stuff, in which case it wouldn't have mattered where they put it.

I think if the magazine/book whatever had a 'parental advisory' sticker, and the kid was allowed to take it out without a parent being there, it's still the fault of the Library, they should check, regardless of policy.

Nile McMorrow:
This manga was classed as non-fiction? Wow. Either this 10 year old girl is good at checking out books under a different classification or there's a whole veil thats been lifted revealing that yaoi graphic novels are considered a learning material.

I guess it teaches people about the birds and the... birds.
Wait, that just sounds silly.
The bees and the bees.

But seriously... they put adult material with children's material?
And none of them noticed the sticker, except for the uncle?
That's just... really fucking stupid.

"The title checked out, "Hero Heel 2" was catalogued as Adult Non-Fiction."

Maybe this is because I've just woken up and I'm missing something, but why was it classed as non-fiction?

Reveras:

snip

It's not the law if the EULA itself doesn't adhere to the actual law. I assume you wouldn't want your courts to take them seriously if the library declared they'd take your first child as a penalty for failing to return books on time.

AnnaIME:
snip

Surely you could just have an adult section attached to any books within a certain genre that also contain particularly adult stuff? Bookshops do it.

Shit guys, can't blame it all on the adults you know. A library is supposed to be a nice place, a learning place, the library should not have allowed a child to check out an ADULTS ONLY comic book without consent of an adult. Now, I have no idea how this goes in the USA because I never used the library system there, but here in Brazil we would have a criminal investigation under both the Penal Code and the Statute of Children and Adolescents (crime without intent, obviously). I still remember when I was young a comic book was a comic book, I wanted them for the figures and not much else, didn't care if I knew the characters of not, that's how I almost bought a Druna comic book, the shopkeeper however did NOT ALLOW ME, since it was an 18+ comic book (and whoever read it knows it's not even erotic, it's downright porn), he said I'd need my mother's authorization, THEN she asked him why it was 18+ (since a lot of harmless crap is 18+) and took a look at it, look at me with a smile and told me to pick something else hahaha Years later I would read Druna, and it sucked, specially compared to the other Heavy Metal material...

I've to side with the library on this one. Even if the book was kinda raunchy, I don't think it's the library's business to get involved if someone wants to read such a book. Even if the reader is a minor. I mean, it's still better than real porn, right? But, as to the fact that she did borrow it accidentally, they might want to move them on to a higher shelf or something, so the little kiddies don't get their minds blown. Or their parents' minds, for that matter.

Dreiko:

Zeriah:
So you guys have full on pornographic, visual novels in your libraries? I wonder if we do as well in Australia, though I certainly haven't seen any.

Also where is the limit? Do libraries also stock Husler or even pornographic DvD's? That they let any pre-adult rent them is troubling as well but I suppose I can't talk as I sure as shit looked at internet porn before I was 18.

It's not porn from what I can tell, it's just sexual. It's an adult-oriented romance novel, it has it's sex scenes and whatnot but it's about the story more so than the sex. A porn one would be...just sex. :P

It's like a gay 50 shades of grey thing, in manga form.

Fair enough, so we are talking about the kind of sex scenes you would see in movies, not full on hentai? Still it seems to me there should be some kind of enforceable classification as long as it has visuals, though I know how prickly that topic is among Americans.

In my eyes a 10 year old shouldn't be able to go in and buy/rent something that is the equivalent of a far more raunchy Sex and the City but if it must happen you would think the parent would have to give permission (as in rent it for them or be there when the child rents it). It seems pretty crazy to me that this wasn't illegal.

I think 50 shades of grey shouldn't be rentable by children as well but a 50 Shades of Grey comic is significantly worse.

Woodsey:
"The title checked out, "Hero Heel 2" was catalogued as Adult Non-Fiction."

Maybe this is because I've just woken up and I'm missing something, but why was it classed as non-fiction?

Glad I'm not the only person who had that as their first thought!

It would make at least a modicum of sense if their excuse was "we put all comics in the same section" (although it still seems silly not to divide your stock into adult and non-adult, at least by shelf).

From what I understand from posts here by people who are familiar with Hero Heel, it sounds like it wasn't terribly graphic. I have to wonder if the yaoi (gay) element factors in to the uncle's outrage

Considering I can go into a shop and read 50 shades out loud (AND I HAVE DAMN IT) I don't see anything wrong with this anyway it's both his and the libray's fault for not checking if it was porn or not.

You'd think this would be a pretty simply issue... use common sense. If a book contains images of full-on penetration it probably doesn't belong in the children's section, regardless of the context.

Better love story than Twilight?

Still, this is pretty hilarious when you think about it. "Non-fiction" categorization? I'd love to see what would be labeled as "fiction."

As I see it, this isn't about library borrowing policy but stocking the book full stop. After all, a kid doesn't have to borrow the book to read it - plenty of people go to the library to read without borrowing. So either they stock the controversial books or they don't. I don't know about everyone else, but I would rather they do. Libraries shouldn't tell people what they should be reading.

LackingSanity:
Presumably the adult fiction section is actually separate from the children's section, which might make it a little less likely for younger kids to pick it up in the first place.

Presumably, so is adult non-fiction, which this was categorised as.

maninahat:

Reveras:

FelixG:
Yeah the 'policy' wouldn't hold up very well if taken to any court, pretty much like any EULA.

The fact is, it is pornography, it belongs to the library, they provided it to a pre-teen, doesnt matter if they whine "But in our EULA it says that its the paaareeennnts responsibility!" because then any store could go off selling whatever they want to anyone they want saying "well if the parents didnt want their kids to have the porn/cigs/alcohol/ect they shoulda been watching them closer!"

And as soon as he saw the parental advisory sticker (Which the library entertainingly didn't even bother to provide, it was from the publisher) he DID look into it.

Before this I didnt even know libraries lent out porn, so I have little doubt he didnt know either.

If the policy doesn't hold up in court then you live in a broken country. The code of conduct is considered a law. It's as simple as that, if you don't respect it, you can be taken to court on account of that. Their code of conduct is very clear there, they are not responsible for what ensues if the parent does not check his child. And what you said about that alcohol/cig comparison is just plain gibberish because those items are straight up outlawed to children because they are a clear way of hurting them. Books can influence but not break a person, it's why they are subjected to the "check them before you let your kids read them" treatment. Certain books that are considered to be of adult age are read by children as a means to make them think and inspire them, take "The Picture of Dorian Gray" as a prime example and pretty much anything that Alexandre Dumas has ever written as well.

What this guy said. There is no legal age restriction on books. Hell, if a 12 year old wanted to check out A Clockwork Orange and American Psycho, not only would people not complain, they would be compliment them on their mature reading ability.

I've not read any yaoi, but my understanding is that it has visual, hardcore sex, which is 100% illegal to sell to anyone under 18. Now, obviously, the library isn't selling anything, but their distribution rules should be the same as any other distributor's, no? And, beyond that, what kind of broken country do you live in where a EULA can override the actual law. "You murdered that man!" "Yeah, but it's in the agreement that I'm allowed to kill anyone who comes into my store." Riiiiiiight.

And to everyone saying, "It's the parent's responsibility," blah blah blah, I'm normally on your side. I really am. Kid's fat? Parents. Kid's watching too much TV? Parents. Kid's at the theater to see Watchman? Parents. Kid's playing Manhunter? Parents.

But you'll notice that theaters aren't allowed to let kids into rated R movies without an adult, and stores aren't allowed to sell M or AO games to minors. Personally, I've been going to the library on my own since I was 8 because it wasn't a far walk and my parents encouraged me to read. Parental responsibility goes a long way, but it seems like this guy did exactly what he should have, as a parent (though he's the uncle): he checked on what the kid was reading and removed the offending material.

I find it particularly telling that no one is saying the kid should have Hero's Heel, just that the library should be allowed to give the kid Hero's Heel. As a society, we have decided that certain visual media are not for children, graphic violence and graphic sex chief among them, and then we restrict the distribution of that media to minors when an adult is not present, and this is a good thing.

Children should be allowed a degree of independence. They should be able to go to the theater without parents worrying that they'll end up watching Saw VII. They should be able to go to Blockbuster without parents worrying that they'll come home with Vampire Hookers XXX. And they should be able to go to the library without parents worrying that they'll come home with hardcore sex.

Parental responsibility is all well and good, but after a certain point you're requiring parents to be awful, overprotective hags that never let their kids out of their sight. Society should be safe for children to be out of their parent's sight.

Finally, there are a number of clear difference between novels and visual media. A novel can only be as graphic as the reader's imagination, and a 10-year-old's imagination of sex and violence is going to be inherently limited. But, more importantly, while a single image can, in the space of a second, scar someone for life (I've got some links for you if you don't believe me), it takes a lot longer to read a similarly scarring amount of text, which gives parents time to remove the book.

And, personally, if I had a 12-year-old and they checked out A Clockwork Orange or American Psycho, I would probably take it away from them (it would depend on the maturity level of my kid, but 12 is by its very nature a fairly immature age).

At MOST, I think libraries should just make sure that these more adult manga's are clearly separated from the children's section. Other than that, I side with the Library.

I'm just glad its merely a complaint and not someone throwing a lawsuit tantrum. I'm even more glad that the library stated "We told you to be a parent, you lazy shit, and you decided not to. Deal with it." Instead of them folding over and admitting they were in the wrong when they weren't.

'Explicit content label clearly visible on the front cover'.

NOPE, NO PARENT TO BLAME HERE.

*sigh*

I disagree with the shelving policy of the library, but it definitley was the father's fault.

The library should not shelve youth manga with adult manga - it's that simple. They know better. Five bucks says their shelving policy will at least be revisited. Also, the staff member who circulated the item will probably have a meeting or two. They were following policy, but they should have at least alterted the parents.

<- Viewpoint coming from a librarian who has worked at school libraries where she's found hersefl stuggling with policy versus parents versus children's maturity levels.

It's a very slipperly slope.

Edit: Again, IT WAS THE FATHERS FAULT. All parents should monitor what their children are reading, pure and simple.

AnnaIME:
I am a librarian. This is the kind of ethics thing we discuss all the time.

Librarian high five!

while i am 100% on the libraries side in this instance, and bravo for their response, i think they could maybe do a little bit better with either putting those books up higher or separating them a bit.

I've lived in the KCLS system my whole life. I didn't know I could have borrowed gay porn at any time. Not that I would have, but my mom would have noticed had I tried.

I should get back into borrowing things again. We have one of the best systems in the country I'm told.

I don't really think the library is at fault here. The parents responsible should really keep an eye on the books their kids take home with them. After all you wouldn't allow them to watch whatever they wanted on the TV, would you? You'd check to make sure they didn't watch something unsuitable. It's not the TV's job to do that. You wouldn't let your kid search up whatever pictures and videos they felt like online.

Zack Alklazaris:

For those of you who might be unfamiliar with the term, "yaoi" is used to describe fiction that focuses on male homosexual romance marketed towards the ladies. The genre, which is dominated by female authors, is known for romanticizing aggressive and sometimes non-consensual sex. It's sometimes gets a bit rapey, in other words.

So... women fantasizes about guys forcibly and sometimes violently having sex with each other?

Holy shit, WOMEN have fantasies? SEXUAL fantasies?! *mind blown*

But seriously... My male friends find female gay sex super hot. I don't see anyone raising an eyebrow when a guy talk about how totally sexy that is. Women have sexual urges and fantasies too. Shocking, I know.

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