10-Year-Old Borrows Steamy Gay Sex Manga From Local Library

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I'm with the library on this one.
Lots of books available at the library contain material that isn't appropriate for children. I don't see why different rules should be applied for graphic novels.
The book even had a parental advisory sticker.

Kittyhawk:
Parents, its your responsibilty to vet what media your kids consume, tough job but only you can do it.

Normally that's my stance too. But his issue is just that the adult material was kept with the children's material. It's not like he's trying to sue the library he just wants them to keep adult material separate. He's not threatening legal action, game and film retailers refuse sales based on classification. And we use that as agood thing when people attack the PEGI system. Just don't give explicit material to unsupervised kids. I worked in a theatre and had a customer complain that a film he bought tickets for wasn't suitable for the daughter. He could fuck off, his choice to let her watch it. If she'd been alone I wouldn't have sold her a ticket. A little responsibility from distributors is how we can stop censorship.

Having an objection to yaoi (pronounced 'ya-oi') manga being in a library isn't going to fly,

It will as long as it remains a personal opinion. He said he doesn't like it, not that it should be banned.

when 50 Shades of Gray is also available, is lapped up by adult females (the same audience for yaoi) and given the red carpet treatment, because its a text novel.

If you can show me where he said that's ok I'll agree. But right now you're painting him as a hypocrite for an opinion we have no evidence he holds.

This yaoi book has a parental advisory label on it, so its doing its part that what's inside, may not be suitable for a younger audience.

Which is why he took a look at it in the first place.

Sounds to me, that this is more of a 'gay's are evil (not true), so why are there comics about them, in our good library' witch hunt.

Bullshit. No evidence for that.

The moment they start sensoring and burning books,

No one's suggesting that.

I'm afraid they'll have to stoke the fires with 50 Shades trilogy, too. I'm amazed that such hypocrisy still exists

You mean the hypocrisy you've no evidence exists.

Omegatronacles:
My local library has a check it out yourself terminal, meaning that I don't have to interact with staff to check books out.

This sounds to me like yet another person who feels that the parenting of children should be left to someone other than parents. Clearly it isn't the fault of the people that let a pre-teen wander around unsupervised, it must be the libraries fault for stocking the material in the first place. /sarcasm

Given the fact that you can find far worse in written word than "a little bit rapey", this is just overreaction based on the fact that this particular book was manga rather than text.

I agree with you on the whole. However that's not a good idea to stash yaoi along with youth reading. They have sections exactly for that. I mean she's not even in age of reading TWILIGHT as far as I'm concerned.

At least I figure the dad had some talk with his 10-year old. Not notifying the library -and his wording was adequate I believe- would have been careless.

The library I go to is a lot less interesting than her's obviously.

This is not really the parents fault for not invading their child's privacy enough. You should allow kids a bit of free will to grow as a person, it is all part of being a parent or so I am told.

It is mostly the fault of whoever let her check it out, they should have looked at the book, seen the parental guidance sticker, then asked her if her parents were ok to check it out for her. However when you are checking out loads of books everyday they may just blend into one, and you start to just not give a shit. After all the casual observer who knows nothing of anime/manga, would probably not even look long at the cover.

The cover is also pink which is the same, with most of the books ten year old girls read. Also even if they looked at the cover, most people who don't like anime cannot even tell the differences in gender between characters. My parent are a great example, whilst watching final fantasy advent children. My Dad staggered in and asked "who's she?" he was talking about Cloud. Then later my mum walks in and says "Oh she's pretty isn't she", she was talking about Sephiroth who was at the time cutting through a rather large falling building. Seems stupid to us internet types, but a lot of westerners cannot tell their Sasuke's from their Sakura's.

However I suppose there should really be an adult section for these things. And people should AT LEAST check what they are letting kids check out.

Technically, since I assume that he already got a library card for her, he agreed to all their terms and conditions (without reading probably, but who does honestly?), so he already agreed that this wouldn't be their fault. Still, why the hell is a manga in non-fiction? And why are both adult and children's versions stocked together? That just makes no sense to me. I can definitely understand this guy's grievances. Also, to all these people saying, "He's the parent, it's his fault, where was he?" A parent is not at their child's side 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And sometimes, other people do stupid things concerning that child, like letting them check out yaoi. At that point, I think they have the right to complain about it.

FEichinger:

Magefeanor:
Is it that hard for a librarian to notice an adult only sticker and tell a 10 year old kid that she can't borrow it unless she has her parents with her or something?

Read the article. They have a policy on it, and that's pretty much: "Parents, it's your fault, if your kid borrows something they shouldn't. We don't put artificial restrictions on material just 'cause you fail to watch them."

I'm definitely with the library on this. If a 10-yo kid is given free access to a library, you should know what they have access to and not expect someone else to keep them "protected". Protect them yourselves, or teach them that it's a no-no, rather than calling out a library for a policy they publicly have.

I read the article and I'm on the libraries side, but still would it be THAT hard to just tell the kid she can't borrow it?

Government always trying to come down on businesses who make these mistakes, but when a Government agency does it, "it the parents responsibility"...

As someone who loves to read, I still have to agree with both sides. All books should be welcome in the library, but some books are not appropriate for children. It all depends on the kid though, some are rather mature for their age. But when it comes to graphic sex scenes, and graphic gore perhaps the library should have a policy of "if your parents thinks it's okay for you to check this book out".
Game of thrones isn't really appropriate for an 8-13 year old, even if they do like LOTR or TWOT. I've been surprised several times when a book has more sex in it than it would appear to have, so I think there should be a summary of what types of things are in the book so that people can make an informed decision about what their kids are reading. Sort of like the ESRP, but without guidelines for age just a list of what the book contains. Eg: graphic sex/sexual themes/romance. mild violence/violence/graphic violence and rape/. Stuff like that.

EDIT:
And I do not agree with the mentality that "it was the parents fault, where were they?". It's a goddamn library! Children should be encouraged to go there on their own and check out books, I did it all the time at that age. It isn't the parent's fault for encouraging their child to go to the library without holding their hand -_-

AngloDoom:
Woah, hold your horses! (Sorry, I've been waiting to use that one =D)

*rawr* I do love me some equine puns Oo.

AngloDoom:
To be fair, it's not exactly common knowledge or expected of women to fantasise about men bumping uglies. I only know one girl who (at least admits) to finding two men kissing attractive, but people sincerely asked if I was heterosexual when I said I don't find two women kissing attractive. Hell, most women I asked were repulsed at the idea because they felt it emasculated at least one of the men involved, and we can't have men going around being weak little queerosexuals now, can we? *Grumble grumble*

Well I don't know... My male friends don't seem to have very extensive knowledge of women though... Some of them only know one female besides their mother, and that's me so.. And I'm not a very girly gal! Come to think of it, me being their only female friend should cause them to think all females are somewhat perverted X3. Maybe it's just the idea of two men kissing (and more) that's the problem, which is stupidly oldfashioned...

Most of my female friends are into something kinky, something that my male friends wouldn't even consider a female capable of liking. I'm talking male-on-male, female-on-female, male-on-octopus, male-on-incubus, male-on-... You get the idea!

Zack Alklazaris:
Oh I know I'm married to woman who loves these fantasies, I just didn't realize that particular fantasy was so popular there was a whole pop-culture around it.

EDIT: I really don't go by the whole female on female thing that guys love so much. As a guy... I just don't get it. So I tend not to try and compare it to fantasies women would have.

Heh, I guess it depends on the type of person? My female friends are generally a bit like me. They like games, fiction and cute stuff, and they are all into something like these yaoi mangas. I could also recommend anyone to read some of them, one call Mister Mistress is hillarious X3. I don't find it very sexy, but it makes me laugh a lot!

Simple mistake, happens to everyone.

Of course, if it happens a second time, then it's intentional.

Hehe, I still remember when I discovered some weird erotic french comic from the local library involving hot sex slaves getting well cozy with gorillas, and time travel, and stuff. I was about 12-13, had no clue what sex slavery, or bestiality was at the time.

On-topic: The library should have at least bothered to verify the content of the manga :s

This article just made my day. This is just to funny to me since I never knew that libraries would hold that kind of stuff. I mean I know they hold thing like the kama sutra and etc, but never knew they held hentai manga lol. Maybe I should go check my local library to see what they have...

Also I am with the Library on the defense to have any material out there, but could see a section that is all adult only so then the parents have zero bs to talk back about...

cainx10a:
Hehe, I still remember when I discovered some weird erotic french comic from the local library involving hot sex slaves getting well cozy with gorillas, and time travel, and stuff. I was about 12-13, had no clue what sex slavery, or bestiality was at the time.

On-topic: The library should have at least bothered to verify the content of the manga :s

That French comic sounds much more raunchy and messed up than the yaoi manga, but god that is funny.

Magefeanor:

FEichinger:

Magefeanor:
Is it that hard for a librarian to notice an adult only sticker and tell a 10 year old kid that she can't borrow it unless she has her parents with her or something?

Read the article. They have a policy on it, and that's pretty much: "Parents, it's your fault, if your kid borrows something they shouldn't. We don't put artificial restrictions on material just 'cause you fail to watch them."

I'm definitely with the library on this. If a 10-yo kid is given free access to a library, you should know what they have access to and not expect someone else to keep them "protected". Protect them yourselves, or teach them that it's a no-no, rather than calling out a library for a policy they publicly have.

I read the article and I'm on the libraries side, but still would it be THAT hard to just tell the kid she can't borrow it?

Why should they? That's the whole point: Kids may borrow whatever the hell they want. It's up to them and their parents to deal with the "protection" or whatever you may call it, not to the library.

Guess they are trying everything to get more kids into libraries these days eh? :P

Im siding with the library on this one, though its unfair to blame the parents or say they are doing a poor job by not checking what their daughter bought, its a book and such things are easily hidden if the daughter really wanted to read hawt yaoi bishi action.

FEichinger:

Magefeanor:

FEichinger:

Read the article. They have a policy on it, and that's pretty much: "Parents, it's your fault, if your kid borrows something they shouldn't. We don't put artificial restrictions on material just 'cause you fail to watch them."

I'm definitely with the library on this. If a 10-yo kid is given free access to a library, you should know what they have access to and not expect someone else to keep them "protected". Protect them yourselves, or teach them that it's a no-no, rather than calling out a library for a policy they publicly have.

I read the article and I'm on the libraries side, but still would it be THAT hard to just tell the kid she can't borrow it?

Why should they? That's the whole point: Kids may borrow whatever the hell they want. It's up to them and their parents to deal with the "protection" or whatever you may call it, not to the library.

Then lets agree to disagree.
I mean a clerk can say to a kid she can't borrow something that has a sticker on it telling everyone it's adult stuff.

You mean it's up to the parents.

Olrod:
It was categorised as "Adult non-fiction"?!

Dafuq?

What else do they class as "non-fiction" I wonder...?

Anything regarding mythology, religion, & space aliens is also found in nonfiction. Comic books are shelved in non-fiction because they fall in the "artbook" category. At my local library there's a copy of Watchmen next to Calvin & Hobbes & a collection of Landscape prints.

I am on the libraries side in this instance, they gave a good response. It would be good if they did put an age rating sticker on some of their more mature titles, however where were the parents in this? A 10 year old kid taking out books all on her own, the parents not monitoring it at all? not supervising? And why didn't the librarian checking the book out for her say anything? or was it a self checkout, if that's the case shouldn't they have something in the machines that scan a book and check the parental advisory label then say that they cannot continue to checkout until a librarian has given it the ok?

Seems like a legitimate complaint. And to be far to the Library, its most likely a simple issue of mistaken identity.

That almost sounds like a setup for the sequel for that steamy gay sex manga, if you know what I'm saying.

Hey, Wikipedia! When do girls start puberty?

On average, girls begin puberty at ages 10-11

So, she's right on schedule, then?

DTWolfwood:
Seems like a legitimate complaint. And to be far to the Library, its most likely a simple issue of mistaken identity.

No.
Libraries has no restrictions, in regards to age or otherwise. Libraries do not censor and do not restrict access to anyone. That's just how they work, and that's how they should remain.
It's the parent's responsibility to moderate their kids.

Olrod:
It was categorised as "Adult non-fiction"?!

Dafuq?

What else do they class as "non-fiction" I wonder...?

What? You've never seen anime style characters running around where you live?

---------------------
Now seriously, they should at least take responsibility for categorizing the book as non-fiction. It scares me that they have people that work at that library that don't know the difference between fiction and non-fiction.

But also, they've got to understand there are some things that you don't put within the reach of children. And really, what the hell kind of shelving system do you have where you smash the children and adult sections together. What do they also have cookbooks next to the mystery novels and the old news papers next to the books on CD and tape?

Okay... why is this posted here and why does anyone care??

Firstly, the librarian who checked the book out (unless it was by machine) should have checked the fro the pretty hard-to-miss parental advisory on the cover.

Secondly, this is a comic published by JUNE. From experience I can tell you there is absolutely no graphic imagery to be concerned with. TRUST me... they're stories are horribly boring that way.

THIRDLY, if you're telling me you're primary concern is with the fact that a child was exposed to the concept of gay love, then FUCK YOU.

Wow, I was expecting the library in this case to give some grovelling response or, worse, pull the "objectionable" material just because some thick guy invoked the "think of teh childrenz" argument. Being something of a manga, comic books and anime fan, and most definitely a fan of videogames, this kind of obtuse navel-gazing attacks get leveled at my hobbies with depressing regularity. You would hope that the last 20+ years of being in the mainstream would have raised the profile of cartoons, comics and games to the point where people realised that they're not just for children.

Cid SilverWing:
Walk your kids to the library.

Ban porn from libraries.

Everyone's happy. No?

The first point is valid (or better yet, talk to your kid so they're aware of what material is suitable for them and don't need to be monitored). The second point is moot because libraries don't stock porn. They do, however, stock material which may be mature in content and therefore offensive to some. And that's fine in my opinion - in fact, providing access to a variety of material, some of which is controversial, unorthodox or even "offensive" is a moral responsibility. We couldn't legitimately claim to be a democracy if public libraries only supported one prevailing and inoffensive viewpoint.

Zack Alklazaris:
So... women fantasizes about guys forcibly and sometimes violently having sex with each other?

Great, eh! So much for the myth of sexuality being a male-centric market, as some feminists would have us believe.

Denamic:
No.
Libraries has no restrictions, in regards to age or otherwise. Libraries do not censor and do not restrict access to anyone. That's just how they work, and that's how they should remain.
It's the parent's responsibility to moderate their kids.

I heartily agree. We don't put age ratings on books (if we did, your average encyclopedia would be rated 18 - all that talk of genocide, war, racism, frank discussion of sex and sexuality, sexually explicit diagrams...)

Denamic:

DTWolfwood:
Seems like a legitimate complaint. And to be far to the Library, its most likely a simple issue of mistaken identity.

No.
Libraries has no restrictions, in regards to age or otherwise. Libraries do not censor and do not restrict access to anyone. That's just how they work, and that's how they should remain.
It's the parent's responsibility to moderate their kids.

No, I think it is also up to the Library to have a proper shelving/section system. I know if I had a kid and I took said kid to the library I use to go to as a kid, I could just point to the children's section and know that there are only children's books in it. I would know there is a children's fiction and non-fiction section in that area, and safe in knowing the place is run by competent people that won't put porn in with the kiddy books.

That is what a proper library has and does. It doesn't just willy-nilly shove all non-fiction together. Oh and that brings me to the point that that the King County Library System must be one screwed up system if it considers a yaoi manga as non-fiction.

Really, it sounds like whoever is running that library has the shelving rules of, "If there is shelf space, put whatever book on whatever shelf."

Batou667:

I heartily agree. We don't put age ratings on books (if we did, your average encyclopedia would be rated 18 - all that talk of genocide, war, racism, frank discussion of sex and sexuality, sexually explicit diagrams...)

No, of course we don't have to put ratings on books, but we at least have to categorize the book properly in their right sections.

Yes, the average encyclopedia has those things, but I've never seen an average encyclopedia placed in the children's section of a library. They are in the reference section which is next to the adult section and usually the furthest away from the children's section.

Problem with the KCLS is that it sounds like they don't have proper age sections and even cataloging for that matter.

Batou667:

Zack Alklazaris:
So... women fantasizes about guys forcibly and sometimes violently having sex with each other?

Great, eh! So much for the myth of sexuality being a male-centric market, as some feminists would have us believe.

Nah I knew about women's addictive love of sex early on when I refuse to give myself to every woman that winked at me a certain way. Still... I really didn't know M/M could be so popular with women.

Sonic Doctor:

Denamic:

DTWolfwood:
Seems like a legitimate complaint. And to be far to the Library, its most likely a simple issue of mistaken identity.

No.
Libraries has no restrictions, in regards to age or otherwise. Libraries do not censor and do not restrict access to anyone. That's just how they work, and that's how they should remain.
It's the parent's responsibility to moderate their kids.

No, I think it is also up to the Library to have a proper shelving/section system. I know if I had a kid and I took said kid to the library I use to go to as a kid, I could just point to the children's section and know that there are only children's books in it. I would know there is a children's fiction and non-fiction section in that area, and safe in knowing the place is run by competent people that won't put porn in with the kiddy books.

That is what a proper library has and does. It doesn't just willy-nilly shove all non-fiction together. Oh and that brings me to the point that that the King County Library System must be one screwed up system if it considers a yaoi manga as non-fiction.

Really, it sounds like whoever is running that library has the shelving rules of, "If there is shelf space, put whatever book on whatever shelf."

What I said had nothing to do with what you responded with, but I'll play along with a response anyway.
Graphic novels are considered artbooks because they're full of art. Therefore, non-fiction. Again, libraries do not censor and do not restrict access. It isn't their responsibility, nor should it be.

Also, do not care about how some libraries sort their books, so I'll ignore future arguments about that.

Batou667:

Zack Alklazaris:
So... women fantasizes about guys forcibly and sometimes violently having sex with each other?

Great, eh! So much for the myth of sexuality being a male-centric market, as some feminists would have us believe.

With all due respect, what feminists are you talking to? Girls like sex just as much as guys. Girls like porn just as much as guys, if you take into account the differences in consumption[1] and social stigma[2].

Feminism is just "guys and gals are pretty much the same, so treat them the same". There's some crazies, for sure, but you can't judge a group by their wacky cousins.

[1] Guys TEND TO prefer visual pornography more, gals TEND TO prefer erotica more
[2] Female sexuality is harshly stigmatized, male sexuality is embraced and encouraged

Zachary Amaranth:

LackingSanity:
Presumably the adult fiction section is actually separate from the children's section, which might make it a little less likely for younger kids to pick it up in the first place.

Presumably, so is adult non-fiction, which this was categorised as.

You'd think so, but apparently not.

The title checked out, "Hero Heel 2" was catalogued as Adult Non-Fiction. All non-fiction titles, including children's non-fiction, are shelved together.

Denamic:

Sonic Doctor:
snip

What I said had nothing to do with what you responded with, but I'll play along with a response anyway.
Graphic novels are considered artbooks because they're full of art. Therefore, non-fiction. Again, libraries do not censor and do not restrict access. It isn't their responsibility, nor should it be.

Also, do not care about how some libraries sort their books, so I'll ignore future arguments about that.

I'll say what I want, you can ignore it or not. It is an argument and I will used whatever relevant ammunition I want to get my point across, even if people stick their fingers in their ears and over their eyes.

What I said had everything to do with what you said.

I'm not saying that you have to restrict what's in the library. I'm only saying that it should properly be cataloged and put in proper sections. Plus, rules are only to be followed to a point; common sense is involved when knowing how rules are to be followed. Every library I've been to wouldn't have let a ten year-old check that book out, adult material should not be in the hands of children, it is common sense prevention and a library knows that the "no restriction of access" does not mean that children are allowed to check out adult material, especially porn.

I knew people when I was in college that their major was in Library Science. They were actually studying to be librarians. I had actually asked one of them one time about how graphic novels are dealt with when cataloging and placing.

I was told that since graphic novels are not just art, they have stories, they are placed in whatever the section the story fits. So the graphic novel in question in the article, should have been in the fiction section since the story is fiction.

Also, I learned from the library science students, that their are sections of classes that teach the ethics of book loaning. Giving a kid adult material was on the lists of do not do it.

Of course the parent has responsibility on what the kid checks out, but also it is up to the library to watch what kids are exposed to.

If I see a kid that is getting into something questionable, I'm not going to just say, "oh well, the parent should be watching the kid, if something happens it isn't my fault."

If a kid is harmed physically or mentally and I was right there to stop it and I did nothing, I would be at fault.

Zen Toombs:
With all due respect, what feminists are you talking to? Girls like sex just as much as guys. Girls like porn just as much as guys, if you take into account the differences in consumption[1] and social stigma[2].

Feminism is just "guys and gals are pretty much the same, so treat them the same". There's some crazies, for sure, but you can't judge a group by their wacky cousins.

I'm mostly referring to the loudmouthed and universally-unpopular fringe feminists (low-hanging fruit and all that).

But, the notion that a great many women may enjoy a) visual erotica which b) explores themes of rough sex or even rape in a non-negative way, would be unwelcome in a lot of even so-called moderate feminist circles.

[1] Guys TEND TO prefer visual pornography more, gals TEND TO prefer erotica more
[2] Female sexuality is harshly stigmatized, male sexuality is embraced and encouraged

Playful Pony:
I don't really think the library is at fault here. The parents responsible should really keep an eye on the books their kids take home with them. After all you wouldn't allow them to watch whatever they wanted on the TV, would you? You'd check to make sure they didn't watch something unsuitable. It's not the TV's job to do that. You wouldn't let your kid search up whatever pictures and videos they felt like online.

It's not the same thing. TV is public access, with only the parent in the way of what kids can and can't watch. In this case the librarian also serves as a barrier. If a bar or store let anyone under drinking age buy alcohol they'd sure as hell be liable, and stores that sell videogames are also supposed to be partly responsible for making sure they don't sell M rated games to anyone under 18, so I think similar standards should apply especially when the book's cover had that explicit content label.

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