10-Year-Old Borrows Steamy Gay Sex Manga From Local Library

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hentropy:
I happen to know for a fact that Hero Heel 2 has a very rich and deep storyline that any preteen would like.

I'll just grab my coat and go.
So much laughing from that, man I'm so immature at times.

This is merely the 1st sign of the storm to come, the internet, she will find it, things shall be googled.
Can't protect kids forever but it's a good idea to have them uncorrupted until well into the teen years, not like you can stop them at that point anyways.

I mean, porn bad, god good. Who wants to go out for frosty chocolate milkshakes, I'm buying.
/<.</ \>.>\

Hollyday:
I'm with both sides here. While the library can and should stock whichever books it wants, I can't see how it would hurt to put an age limit on some of its racier material. I've worked in libraries (including a school library) and that's what we did - we just wrote an "over 12s only" note on the inside cover so that when we went to check it out we'd know to check the age. If a parent was with them though they could say it was fine.

I'm sensitive to the fact that bringing in some kind of age-limit across all collections in all libraries would be a horrible idea, but when it comes to stuff like yaoi could we use just a little common sense?

The thing is they don't have actual porn on the shelves and everything else is a judgment call. I think it makes the most sense to ask parents to accompany their young minor children so they can vet the reading choices themselves. It is reasonable and does not prevent anyone else viewing or checking out any material at the library.

Parents should actually be parents. Problem solved. End of Story. Move along please. Thank you.

I dont get what the big deal is.
Its like this is a big deal or something.

phreakdb:
Parents should actually be parents. Problem solved. End of Story. Move along please. Thank you.

How about we stop shelving cartoon porn in the non-fiction section while we're at it?

EcoEclipse:
... Why is Hero Heel 2 "non-fiction?"

Probably because of Dewey Decimal classification. Under that system, "Comic books, graphic novels, fotonovelas, cartoons, caricatures, comic strips" fall under 741.5. 700 is Arts and Rec, 740 is "graphic arts and decorative arts", and 741 is "Drawing and Drawings". Source: http://dewey.info/

But yeah, Dewey probably needs to be reworked from the ground up.

Why were they so defensive in their response? You could say we stand by our right to provide uncensored literature AND say you were sorry that a ten year old checked this out.

Once again sex is decidedly evil, and for some reason homosexuality is extra evil, and if it's in some cartoon or video game form it's some kind of concentrated evil that will make children grow up to become crack whores and mass murderers.

Maybe some nice violent afternoon cartoons or something would help offset the damage that the unholy depiction of consensual sexual activity would have on a young mind.

I got a comic from the library once that had bestiality in it so....yeah an astronaut getting an alligator drunk then raping him...then somehow producing an offspring

Something like that actually happened to me when I was like 12 or so.

I went to the library, got what looked like it had a cool design, kept reading, then realized what I was reading and stopped before the manga got to where it looked like it was leading.

The characters actually looked just like these two, except it was something about the blonde haired one being able to speak to and see ghosts.

Reveras:

FelixG:

Yeah the 'policy' wouldn't hold up very well if taken to any court, pretty much like any EULA.

The fact is, it is pornography, it belongs to the library, they provided it to a pre-teen, doesnt matter if they whine "But in our EULA it says that its the paaareeennnts responsibility!" because then any store could go off selling whatever they want to anyone they want saying "well if the parents didnt want their kids to have the porn/cigs/alcohol/ect they shoulda been watching them closer!"

And as soon as he saw the parental advisory sticker (Which the library entertainingly didn't even bother to provide, it was from the publisher) he DID look into it.

Before this I didnt even know libraries lent out porn, so I have little doubt he didnt know either.

If the policy doesn't hold up in court then you live in a broken country. The code of conduct is considered a law. It's as simple as that, if you don't respect it, you can be taken to court on account of that. Their code of conduct is very clear there, they are not responsible for what ensues if the parent does not check his child. And what you said about that alcohol/cig comparison is just plain gibberish because those items are straight up outlawed to children because they are a clear way of hurting them. Books can influence but not break a person, it's why they are subjected to the "check them before you let your kids read them" treatment. Certain books that are considered to be of adult age are read by children as a means to make them think and inspire them, take "The Picture of Dorian Gray" as a prime example and pretty much anything that Alexandre Dumas has ever written as well.

If an EULA violates any laws in the country you are in then it usually doesn't hold up in court. That said, clearly that doesn't apply in this case.

dyre:
I'm a bit confused at the "hurrr, bad parenting" comments here. What did the guy do that's bad parenting? Were you all brought to libraries under parental escort as kids? I know when I was a kid, I always stopped at the library on the way home from junior high, along with a decent number of other kids (it was pretty much right next to the school).

I don't consider a parent letting their kid spend time in a library by themselves to be bad parenting. In fact, it's a bit bordering on ridiculous to demand that parents always be there. Kids go to libraries after school. You know, around 3pm, when parents are working.

If this library took the trouble to separate "fiction" into "adult" and "children" sections, they can do the same for "non fiction." Though, given the library's inability to understand the term "non fiction," perhaps the task would simply be too difficult.

The fact that the guy noticed his niece was reading yaoi is more of an indication of good parenting than bad parenting.

I think people are too quick to blame the guardian in this situation. They're probably biased because of the stories of parents who let their children buy violent video games and then blame the store for allowing it to happen.

I don't believe in censorship or removal of the materials described, but I do believe that they should be segregated and restricted from being sold/loaned to minors without a parent or a guardian present. Yes parents and guardians should monitor what their children read (as Travis De Nevers did here) but I also believe retailers (including libraries in this case) have some responsibility when they sell/loan out these materials to minors.

I'm glad that KCLS believes in "free, open and equal access to ideas and information" but I think they need to rethink their practices. Shelving adult non-fiction and children's non-fiction together is ill-advised. Including "Hero Heel" with that is foolish. Allowing a ten year old girl to borrow yaoi is egregious.

Yeah the fault is definitely with the library here. I'm not saying e.g. Lady Chatterley's Lover should be age-restricted, but fucking graphic sex in a manga is going too far.

Grey Carter:
It's sometimes gets a bit rapey, in other words.

Oh for goodness' sake.

Playful Pony:
I don't really think the library is at fault here. The parents responsible should really keep an eye on the books their kids take home with them. After all you wouldn't allow them to watch whatever they wanted on the TV, would you? You'd check to make sure they didn't watch something unsuitable. It's not the TV's job to do that. You wouldn't let your kid search up whatever pictures and videos they felt like online.

That's a bad example (bordering on a strawman), because you're comparing a television set to a person and you can actually set up your TV so that certain channels are restricted to prevent children from viewing them. And of course a parent can actually set restrictions on their Internet browser to prevent their child from viewing inappropriate material. Also the guy actually did notice that his niece brought home yaoi.

A better example might be if a clerk at a video rental store lets a child without a parent/guardian borrow an excessively violent/sexually explicit video game rated MA 15+ or R 18+ and then the child takes it home.

Cyrus Hanley:

Playful Pony:
I don't really think the library is at fault here. The parents responsible should really keep an eye on the books their kids take home with them. After all you wouldn't allow them to watch whatever they wanted on the TV, would you? You'd check to make sure they didn't watch something unsuitable. It's not the TV's job to do that. You wouldn't let your kid search up whatever pictures and videos they felt like online.

That's a bad example (bordering on a strawman), because you're comparing a television set to a person and you can actually set up your TV so that certain channels are restricted to prevent children from viewing them. And of course a parent can actually set restrictions on their Internet browser to prevent their child from viewing inappropriate material. Also the guy actually did notice that his niece brought home yaoi.

A better example might be if a clerk at a video rental store lets a child without a parent/guardian borrow an excessively violent/sexually explicit video game rated MA 15+ or R 18+ and then the child takes it home.

I find myself saying this again, that I understood that this library had an automatic checkout system for the books? Or did I read that in some random post following. I don't actually know where I got that 'information' anymore... I know my local library has automatic checkout of books anyway. If there was an actual librarian between the girl and the door, looking at all the books... Then I would agree with your videogame comparison...

Parents can't really supervise their kid's reading habits the way they can television or video games. I assume you don1t allow your kids their own TV in their room after all, so they have to go to the living room/parent's bedroom/etc to watch it. And you can place restrictions on it, as was mentioned above.

You can't do the same with books. You usually can't tell at first glance what a book is about, whether it contains explicitly violent/sexual stuff that is not 'appropriate' for children. Plus it takes time to read a book, free time which parents don't have. I remember when I was a kid, I would often read entire novels in a day or two then go back to the library for more. My mom couldn't have kept up with me if she wanted to!

But what parents CAN do is talk to their kids about what they consider appropriate to read. If my mom said to me "the way romance works in books is not the way it works in real life and you shouldn't let them shape your view on it until you're old enough to have some perspective" I'd have said "Okay" and went back to reading my adventure novels about cowboys and Indians.

I know most parents feel awkward about talking to their kids about sex, but it's better if they learn about it from an adult. At age 10, me and most of my age group already knew how the basic mechanics of sex worked anyway, even if we didn't get all the nuances. We had a vague idea of what the other sexs' genitals would look like and how they're supposed to fit together. At the time we didn't really dwell on it beyond "it's an adult thing, we'll figure out when we're older".

Parents don't like the idea of their preteens being aware of sex, but it's something kids are naturally curious about and will hear about from each other even if their parents refuse to discuss it. Kids don't need as much protection as adults nowadays seem to think they do. Children need to learn from their own mistakes even if it means they'll sometimes get a bit hurt.

When I was a kid I watched The Mummy, had nightmares for a week and that taught me not to watch horror flicks. I wasn't permanently damaged by it and I learned a valuable lesson about myself (I don't react well to horror). The next time my brothers put on a horror movie I turned tail and left the room to get back to my books (I think it was Resident Evil?). Lesson learned, end of story.

A lot of people are blaming the parents and others the library, but there doesn't seem to be many people questioning whether it matters that she checked out yaoi to begin with. Most people seem to accept that it's not appropriate for a ten year old to view such material, but why? Is there actually any evidence that seeing pornography is harmful to a child's development? Or is the outcry just people being reactionary hypocrites?

Maybe we should rename this month Gaytober.

Anyone else find it super ironic that a casual glance through any library will reveal books a hundred times more sexually graphic and violent than this? Hell, most of the books I was assigned to read in middle school make this crap look downright tame. I distinctly remember one novel, From the Notebooks of Melanin Sun, that follows a young boy struggling to cope with the idea of his mother being a lesbian. This was printed by Scholastic, a publisher who primarily prints stuff read by young adults.

I'm not saying contemporary fiction is the same as smutty manga, but holy shit. If you're the type who freaks out about children having their worldview changed by reading material, explain to me how pictures of cartoon boys fucking is more dangerous than Flowers In the Attic... a story with pages upon pages of incestual love.

Cyrus Hanley:

dyre:
I'm a bit confused at the "hurrr, bad parenting" comments here. What did the guy do that's bad parenting? Were you all brought to libraries under parental escort as kids? I know when I was a kid, I always stopped at the library on the way home from junior high, along with a decent number of other kids (it was pretty much right next to the school).

I don't consider a parent letting their kid spend time in a library by themselves to be bad parenting. In fact, it's a bit bordering on ridiculous to demand that parents always be there. Kids go to libraries after school. You know, around 3pm, when parents are working.

If this library took the trouble to separate "fiction" into "adult" and "children" sections, they can do the same for "non fiction." Though, given the library's inability to understand the term "non fiction," perhaps the task would simply be too difficult.

The fact that the guy noticed his niece was reading yaoi is more of an indication of good parenting than bad parenting.

I think people are too quick to blame the guardian in this situation. They're probably biased because of the stories of parents who let their children buy violent video games and then blame the store for allowing it to happen.

I don't believe in censorship or removal of the materials described, but I do believe that they should be segregated and restricted from being sold/loaned to minors without a parent or a guardian present. Yes parents and guardians should monitor what their children read (as Travis De Nevers did here) but I also believe retailers (including libraries in this case) have some responsibility when they sell/loan out these materials to minors.

I'm glad that KCLS believes in "free, open and equal access to ideas and information" but I think they need to rethink their practices. Shelving adult non-fiction and children's non-fiction together is ill-advised. Including "Hero Heel" with that is foolish. Allowing a ten year old girl to borrow yaoi is egregious.

Yup. A lot of people here are demanding what amounts to pretty much Orwellian parenting. Anything to defend their precious manga*, I guess.

*or replace manga with any other stereo typically "nerdy" pastime

Spot1990:

All non-fiction titles, including children's non-fiction, are shelved together.

Doesn't look like it. All non-fiction together.

LackingSanity:

You'd think so, but apparently not.

Whoops. Derp! I don't know how I caught the first part of that but not the second. My bad.

Thanks for the correction.

As a kid I often went to the library at first I was taken by my parents and later when Id shown I was responsible I could go on my own but id never dare trying to check out something adult as my parents would check my library card when I got back and ask what id booked out not just to check up but because they liked to take an interest in what I liked. On another note there are hundreds of what I would class as literary porn in any Library just take a look at the romance section.

Im wholeheartedly with the Library on this no content should be banned because one person doesn't think its the parents responsibility to decide and ensure there child dose not have access to material they feel is unsuitable

So, why does anyone actually care?

A girl read some yaoi. What is the problem?

The only measure I think should be used to "protect" children from reading material, is having them provide a form signed by one of their parents/guardians that confirms that the parent/guardian is the only one responsible for that, when they register for a library card.

Libraries, Theater, TV and the Internet are not Babysitter alternatives.

Cyrus Hanley:
Shelving adult non-fiction and children's non-fiction together is ill-advised.

Shelving non-fiction and cartoon porn together is what's ill-advised.

manic_depressive13:
A lot of people are blaming the parents and others the library, but there doesn't seem to be many people questioning whether it matters that she checked out yaoi to begin with. Most people seem to accept that it's not appropriate for a ten year old to view such material, but why? Is there actually any evidence that seeing pornography is harmful to a child's development? Or is the outcry just people being reactionary hypocrites?

I think they're worried that, as a result of reading this material, she'll want to grow up to become a gay man. That's why we should be encouraging our 10-year-old girls to read only hetero cartoon porn, especially if it ends with the woman going to the kitchen to make her man a sammich.

hooksashands:
explain to me how pictures of cartoon boys fucking is more dangerous than Flowers In the Attic... a story with pages upon pages of incestual love.

Incest is okay as long as it's not guy-on-guy.

Meaning of Karma:
A girl read some yaoi. What is the problem?

The problem is that she might now have a damaged understanding of how gay male relationships work, which will not affect her own love life in any way and which could be corrected by spending 2 minutes talking to an actual gay man.

The horror!

This will come across as rather permissive, but -- is it really so bad to let a 10-year old girl read a yaoi manga if that's what interests her? No-one forced her to borrow it, if that's what sparks her interest, by all means let her read it of her own accord. If kids are taught sex ed at such an age, why is there such a taboo over something like this? Granted, the parents should have some discretion in deciding what is and isn't suitable for their children, but you can't wrap them in cotton wool.
I wouldn't say I'm against age ratings either, but they should be a parental guideline, not an absolute restriction.

Zack Alklazaris:

For those of you who might be unfamiliar with the term, "yaoi" is used to describe fiction that focuses on male homosexual romance marketed towards the ladies. The genre, which is dominated by female authors, is known for romanticizing aggressive and sometimes non-consensual sex. It's sometimes gets a bit rapey, in other words.

So... women fantasizes about guys forcibly and sometimes violently having sex with each other?

its not rape if its done to a man. Come on, keep up with the times.

I think we are having a case of "culture misunderstanding" here. LOL

Librarian sees book. "Oh it has 'cartoons' on it, it must be a children's book.". Little did he/she know, in Japan ...

Meaning of Karma:
So, why does anyone actually care?

A girl read some yaoi. What is the problem?

She is 10.

And I don't think libraries are allowed to stock pornographic content - they should at least put it in a "restricted" section.

I'm not going to debate whether we should let kids view porno, I have no opinion actually, but current social norms say no.

All I can think is "Why the Hell doesn't my local library have steamy gay sex manga?" Sure they can have a wall full of books about planes that are so unread they actually have dust on them, but not a single steamy gay sex manga! Or steamy gay anything!

It's bullshit, is what it is.

deadish:

Meaning of Karma:
So, why does anyone actually care?

A girl read some yaoi. What is the problem?

She is 10.

And I don't think libraries are allowed to stock pornographic content - they should at least put it in a "restricted" section.

I'm not going to debate whether we should let kids view porno, I have no opinion actually, but current social norms say no.

Yaoi does not mean porn, libraries do not stock porn. Lots of books, movies, and graphic novels have steamy sex that does not make them porn.

"Adult Non-Fiction"? Really?
This is the part that actually bothers me. I would be totaly on the library's side if it wasn't for that small part. It is reasonable for library to have wide range of content. The way they classify it, on the other hand, it really questionable.

Reminds me of the late 90s and the beginning of 2000-2001. Back in here it was very common to see stuff like Pokemon and Sailor Moon placed right next to Jin-roh, Ninja Scroll and freakin Urotsukidoji CDs. It is not really suprising that a large number of people still consider anime to mostly consist of tentacle rape.

Darknacht:
Yaoi does not mean porn, libraries do not stock porn. Lots of books, movies, and graphic novels have steamy sex that does not make them porn.

It's hard to argue it isn't pretty damn close - depending on how explicit it is, it could be anything from ultra softcore to real hardcore.

It definitely isn't "art" - you will find very few people who would consider it as such.

Zhukov:
This article upsets me.

Mostly because I have no idea how to pronounce "yaoi".

I mean, three vowels and a "y"? Come on, what the hell?

I think it's pronounced "Yow-ee", but who the fuck knows, it's Japanese.

I certainly wouldn't borrow porn at a library. Who knows what person had it before...

Also, while I find it rather prude to "protect children from anything remotely sexual", there are things children just shouldn't have to see, even if they think they want to.

That's hilarious

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