Rumor: "Very Affordable" PS4 Based on AMD's A10 APU

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Fappy:
I wonder how they plan to make it "very affordable". There's a reason the PS3 was so expensive at launch...

I imagine given how things go with consoles the first batch will reveal all kinds of problems due to lax QA and corner cutting of that sort. Also there's no Ken Kutaragi crazying up the place.

The PS4 will be affordable...

I can imagine them doing a Steve Jobs style reveal/launch...

"And the best part is, you get to CHOOSE whether you pay for it with your arm or with your leg"

RhombusHatesYou:
...and the inherent problems of APUs (they're bastards for heat management)....

When I first heard about AMD's APU design, that was the first thought through my head: "How the hell are they going to deal with the heat?" While a console actually does strike me as the more optimal place for an APU, it's got its own specific set of drawbacks that might be problematic to address.

Rayken15:
Everything sounds good except the RAM. Isn't 16GB a bit of an overkill?

Overcompensation more like. I talked with a few people who developed ghames for PS3. Their main complain was "we cant make this or that becuase the machine dont have enough active memory (read: ram). so i guess sony overcompensated with that after hearing same complaints from developers. Also, we are already buying PCs with 8 gb, if this console wants to be competetive for more than itsl aunch day it has to look at the future, so nothing wrong with that. Ram isnt expensive anyway. Now what i really dont like is that its AMD processors, as AMD still havent managed to get the new efficien technology that iseries has, but this deal was probably signed before that came out of the bag anyway.

Really? The APU's seem like an ideal solution for most of the things developers would want for a console. The A10 is basically the beefiest integrated most people would need on a PC. If you actually optimized things to make use of all the good points it has, on-die means lower latencies and that you won't have it desolder itself from the system board.

The launch PS3 used a GPU on a 90nm process, A10 is 32nm. Since 2006 we have went through 4 cycles of Moore's law, mostly keeping up. So at the same price point as then we have hardware 16x as powerful. Native resolution on both PS3 and 360 was 720p then internally upscaled to 1080p. Native 1080p will be doable in the coming generation.
PS3 and 360 had total ram figures of about 512MB. The A10 is based of a DDR3 memory controller, so assuming they will be using dual channel ram.

Best A10 goes for $132 retail, 8GB of DDR3 costs $40 retail, 250GB 2.5" hard drive $52, proprietary motherboard. Throw in controller and usual cables.

So I can see them easily hitting a sub $350 price point without taking a lose on the.

As for heat, these things are many times cooler then the 360 gpu. Putting the GPU and CPU on a single die means they can use a single better cooler to deal with heat. A regular A10-5800k has a TDP of 100W and does most of the heavy lifting processor wise. The 360 power brick is 203W. As long as they are intelligent about airflow and fan curves they will have no issues being quiet and cool.

People saying 8GB of ram is too much, think for a bit. The system will use dual channel DDR3 ram. That means 4 slots/ their equivalent will be used by the system. They don't make 1GB DDR3 dimms, in fact 2GB dimms are cheaper and faster then 1GB dimms of similar price.
TLDR; 8GB is the standard for dual-channel DDR3 based systems.

Well I can see the theory of it being affordable. Even 400 bucks at launch wouldn't be too unreasonable. Even the Delux Wii U with only 32 GB of Memory is going for 350 bucks.If they decide on like 450 or 500... maybe not quite as appealing... but 400 bucks, not too far out of the realm of possibility.

As for backwards compatability, I'd suspect they might still use Bluray technology, since hell they've hardly ever had a game that tapped the 50 GB on it, so maybe it's still possible to get?

If not, I propose to Sony, since they would read this post... that those who buy a brand new PS4, get a voucher for either a specific amount of money, or a specific amount of games, that they can perchase on the PSN (limited time offer). They would be loosing money technically, but maybe it would encourage some people on the fence about getting the new system, since it would allow them to pick out a few choice games on the network while new games are in development.

Still not buying it, but it looks decent for people that want to game and can't/won't cobble together a PC.

Rayken15:
Everything sounds good except the RAM. Isn't 16GB a bit of an overkill?

Not really, I've got 8GB on my comp and I'm gonna be adding another 8GB just to get rid of my SWAP file so things run faster.

Devkits usually have double the RAM of console (PS3 devkit has 1 GB).
So, 8 and 16 mean that they try to decide between 4 and 8 GB in a console. And since they will make in DDR5, current top RAM for videocards, they will want to organize 512 mb chip production to get 8 GB model out.

Also, people are forgetting that PC and consoles operate differently. Drivers take RAM space, for example. Remember PS3? RAM-wise it's 256+256 are equivalent to 4GB on PC when used properly or 2GB if not. 8GB of console RAM will allow for graphics comparable to 32 GB on PC.

RicoADF:

Reaper195:
I really hope it's not called 'Orbis'. PS4/Play Station 4 Suits the console much more, especially since it's been through 1 to 3.

its probably just an in-house dev codename. ps4 will most likely be the release name.

In Japan/Asia number 4 signifies horrible misfortune and death. Worse than 13 in the West.
So naming it Playstation 4 is Japan is like naming it Playstation 13 You Will Die Horrible.
So, Playstation Orbis. Or Playstation 5 maybe?
Word is it's Playstation Orbis to compliment Playstation Vita. The two will be heavily integrated into each other, one of the reasons Sony is calm about the Vita's mediocre sales.

Still worse than any half decent pc build in the last 4 years.

How do thy keep coming up with this lame crap,.

Sylveria:

Eclipse Dragon:
I have a hard time believing anything created by Sony is "very affordable".
It might be like the Vita, where the system price seems reasonable, but you need to pay extra for essentials.

Orbis basic system for $399.99.
Includes 256 GB hard drive and 1 month free Playstation Plus subscription.
Backwards compatibility available only in $499.99 models. Controller sold separately.
Price for controller: $99.99
Price for games at launch: $80.00

If it was Bbackwards compatible all the way back to PS1.. I'd happily drop $500 on one.

Also, sadly, if the graphics whores keep getting their way, we will probably see $80 games in the coming console generation.

The sad part is, I was only talking about PS3 backwards compatibility.
I don't see them having a true backwards compatible system like we saw in launch PS3s (where you could play both PS1 and PS2 discs). After it was scrapped, I don't see them adding it back into a new system, regardless of the demand. There's just too much push for all digital distribution.

4RT1LL3RY:
Really? The APU's seem like an ideal solution for most of the things developers would want for a console. The A10 is basically the beefiest integrated most people would need on a PC. If you actually optimized things to make use of all the good points it has, on-die means lower latencies and that you won't have it desolder itself from the system board.

The launch PS3 used a GPU on a 90nm process, A10 is 32nm. Since 2006 we have went through 4 cycles of Moore's law, mostly keeping up. So at the same price point as then we have hardware 16x as powerful. Native resolution on both PS3 and 360 was 720p then internally upscaled to 1080p. Native 1080p will be doable in the coming generation.
PS3 and 360 had total ram figures of about 512MB. The A10 is based of a DDR3 memory controller, so assuming they will be using dual channel ram.

Best A10 goes for $132 retail, 8GB of DDR3 costs $40 retail, 250GB 2.5" hard drive $52, proprietary motherboard. Throw in controller and usual cables.

So I can see them easily hitting a sub $350 price point without taking a lose on the.

As for heat, these things are many times cooler then the 360 gpu. Putting the GPU and CPU on a single die means they can use a single better cooler to deal with heat. A regular A10-5800k has a TDP of 100W and does most of the heavy lifting processor wise. The 360 power brick is 203W. As long as they are intelligent about airflow and fan curves they will have no issues being quiet and cool.

People saying 8GB of ram is too much, think for a bit. The system will use dual channel DDR3 ram. That means 4 slots/ their equivalent will be used by the system. They don't make 1GB DDR3 dimms, in fact 2GB dimms are cheaper and faster then 1GB dimms of similar price.
TLDR; 8GB is the standard for dual-channel DDR3 based systems.

You can talk about Moore's Law and how amazeballs it is compared to the old gen consoles all you like, the fact remains that a budget gaming PC from two years ago will equal or beat an A10-based system in any benchmark you care to name, more often the latter if you give the budget rig a decent overclock. Even accounting for the moderate performance boost that comes from developing games on a closed system like a console, you're still not going to be seeing any DX11 features running on this thing.

When you consider that PC users have access to the i5, the i7, and soon the new Haswell architecture; plus graphics wise the 7970/GTX670 now, and soon the new AMD HD-8xxx-series(and with that the rumoured Nvidia cards that were held back from the current crop because they were so ludicrously powerful compared to AMD's 7xxx-series cards) - these new consoles will be obsolete at launch, and within a year or two we'll be back to where we are today, with PC's capable of truly outstanding performance being held back by the limits of another platform.

If they can make that, and make it affordable then Sony may just be able to compete in the next gen. They out-priced themselves from the market with the PS3 and the Vita both (even with taking a loss on each PS3 sold) and is one main reason for lack of uptake and subsequently, developer support. A console that costs more than 200, or 250 on the absolute outside is simply too expensive, even if it does have added value. A handheld over 150, like the Vita is simply extortionate.

Sony will be very unlikely to release a "PS4". The word for four in Japanese, Shi, is the same pronunciation as the word for "death" and as such is considered bad luck, equivalent to thirteen in the west.

Magichead:
- these new consoles will be obsolete at launch, and within a year or two we'll be back to where we are today, with PC's capable of truly outstanding performance being held back by the limits of another platform.

Dude you've really depressed me. I was finally looking forward to the possibility that gaming can move on from the rut it's been in for the last four years and your prognosis suggests we'll only get 2 years of boundary pushing before stagnation kicks in again. *sigh* I hate consoles for what they did to gaming.

Rayken15:
Everything sounds good except the RAM. Isn't 16GB a bit of an overkill?

Not if it allows the majority of a game to be cached for instant loading. Good idea if you ask me. Windows Vista onward use large amounts of RAM effectively by caching things that are expected to be loaded soon. RAM will also be shared with the GPU portion of the APU.

OT: The AMD A10 would make a very capable console part. It is a good inexpensive mid range CPU with a decent mid range integrated GPU. With the highly optimised OS and software consoles use it will be very powerful.

Going by the hard drive size it is obvious that it is in fact an SSD. This thing is going power on and load almost instantly.

My only disappointment is there is no mention of DisplayPort which is better than HDMI in terms of tech specs and the fact it is royalty free. Although seeing as Sony is one of the founders of HDMI I am not surprised.

Magichead:
these new consoles will be obsolete at launch, and within a year or two we'll be back to where we are today, with PC's capable of truly outstanding performance being held back by the limits of another platform.

This would be different from every other console generation how? Because the 360 and PS3 were nothing that spectacular based on specs alone at launch. The disparity between previous consoles and PC's tended to be even worse.

cerebus23:
Where is the xbox 720 in development?

Will be interesting to see if there is a race to be first now. Or if sony can somehow pull that rabbit out of a hat with an "affordable" system, first to the market, like the ps2 that managed to win that gen by being first and having an enormous quality library of games.

Second to market, it came after the Dreamcast, but that game library really gave the PS2 the edge.

dragongit:
Well I can see the theory of it being affordable. Even 400 bucks at launch wouldn't be too unreasonable. Even the Delux Wii U with only 32 GB of Memory is going for 350 bucks.If they decide on like 450 or 500... maybe not quite as appealing... but 400 bucks, not too far out of the realm of possibility.

As for backwards compatability, I'd suspect they might still use Bluray technology, since hell they've hardly ever had a game that tapped the 50 GB on it, so maybe it's still possible to get?

If not, I propose to Sony, since they would read this post... that those who buy a brand new PS4, get a voucher for either a specific amount of money, or a specific amount of games, that they can perchase on the PSN (limited time offer). They would be loosing money technically, but maybe it would encourage some people on the fence about getting the new system, since it would allow them to pick out a few choice games on the network while new games are in development.

They nearly did, KIllzone 3 takes up somewhere around the 46 GB mark on the disc, I think most of the game is uncompressed though, the soundtrack is definately so as it sounds marvelous.

But yeah, blu-ray will be staying I'd imagine, god help anyone who clings to DVD next gen for gaming.

Owyn_Merrilin:

RhombusHatesYou:

Owyn_Merrilin:
And welcome to America, where the minimum wage is only $7.25 an hour, and even "real" jobs don't pay as much as equivalent jobs in Australia.

Yet the average American wage is about 15-20% higher than the Aussie average wage, and that's calculated in 'international dollars' which are based on the purchasing power of the US dollar.

Have you got a source on that? Because I've always understood Australians made more in general. They have to, because the cost of living over there is through the roof compared to what it is in the US. Video games are hardly the only thing that you guys get charged more for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

It is wiki, but links are provided. The page simply puts the OECD numbers in an easy to read chart.

Here is another one. I believe this too is based on the OECD numbers and expressed in PPP (money is expressed in 1 US dollar spent in the US). This a more simplistic number, and simply average monthly salary with cost of living included.

http://1-million-dollar-blog.com/average-monthly-salary-for-72-countries-in-the-world/

The OECD has a site, but it's not easy to understand or compare numbers.

edit: Note, these numbers are adjusted for living expenses (PPP number does that). I think that is what the other poster was probably using. If you go simply by actual dollars, Australia is considerably higher. Yet the cost of living more than eats up that difference. So it really depends on how you look at things. From a video game perspective, 33% higher costs in Australia should be expected and not really any different than US prices considering the wage differences.

Orbis?........

I wonder if ity will be backwards compatible....is that a silly question?

Fappy:
I wonder how they plan to make it "very affordable". There's a reason the PS3 was so expensive at launch...

By having really low standards, not even coming close to matching what typical users are capable with PC hardware today.

Also having everything-on-one-chip hugely reduces production costs as well as potential efficiency.

But this is a double win for PC as the A10 architecture is (unlike the Cell Broadband processor) very similar to PC hardware, games made for this new Playstation would be easily ported to and scaled up on PC.

I hope this A10 based system is true, it'll be affordable system for me to get a new generation of console games yet my current PC won't be rendered obsolete.

Eclipse Dragon:
I have a hard time believing anything created by Sony is "very affordable".
It might be like the Vita, where the system price seems reasonable, but you need to pay extra for essentials.

Orbis basic system for $399.99.
Includes 256 GB hard drive and 1 month free Playstation Plus subscription.
Backwards compatibility available only in $499.99 models. Controller sold separately.
Price for controller: $99.99
Price for games at launch: $80.00

That actually seems rather reasonable.

RhombusHatesYou:

Owyn_Merrilin:
And welcome to America, where the minimum wage is only $7.25 an hour, and even "real" jobs don't pay as much as equivalent jobs in Australia.

Yet the average American wage is about 15-20% higher than the Aussie average wage, and that's calculated in 'international dollars' which are based on the purchasing power of the US dollar.

Average isn't necessarily median.

For example how is that "average" skewed by how there are so many multi-billionaires and even trillionaires living and earning in the United States while the "typical earner" may not earn much more or even less than other countries. This wealth doesn't trickle down, the super rich buy giant yachts, private planes. They don't buy games consoles, they buy private jets.

I don't have a source (yet) but I did hear in a BBC documentary about economics that in the United States middle earnings have frozen for the past 30 years while the highest earners have shot up "INSANELY high". Like an order of magnitude higher. Like is a banker earned $1 million in the 1980's, he'd take in $10 million today. This is happening almost everywhere in the world though some countries to a greater extent.

This can be insidious, as "average earnings" going up may appear like an egalitarian improvements, when most are being left behind as a tiny minority take in all the extra wealth being generated.

What you really need is to compare middle earners, with cost of living of middle earners (distance to commute, cost of commute, heating/air-conditioning expenses) and then the balance of both taxation and government support. So how much government tightens household budget and also how much it might (if at all) ease it.

But that's complicated as hell, really you could just, well, ASK australians and americans and Brits and so on what they feel they can afford. Can they afford X-amount per game? Can they afford a console with initial price of X-dollars-US/OZ. Because that's what it ultimately boils down to.

Eclipse Dragon:
I have a hard time believing anything created by Sony is "very affordable".
It might be like the Vita, where the system price seems reasonable, but you need to pay extra for essentials.
...

Price for games at launch: $80.00

WHOOA WHOA WOW!!

Hold the phone, EIGHTY SMACKEROONS!

PC games are right now selling for the low low price of FREE (to play), I can barely afford console games at the equivalent of $60 (40). My PS3 controller is collecting dust not because I can't find games worth playing but because I cannot justify the cost of each game. $80 would end up being 55 in the UK, that's a total turn off. I could buy almost every game I could ever want in a typical steam sale for that amount.

image

Treblaine:

Eclipse Dragon:
I have a hard time believing anything created by Sony is "very affordable".
It might be like the Vita, where the system price seems reasonable, but you need to pay extra for essentials.
...

Price for games at launch: $80.00

WHOOA WHOA WOW!!

Hold the phone, EIGHTY SMACKEROONS!

PC games are right now selling for the low low price of FREE (to play), I can barely afford console games at the equivalent of $60 (40). My PS3 controller is collecting dust not because I can't find games worth playing but because I cannot justify the cost of each game. $80 would end up being 55 in the UK, that's a total turn off. I could buy almost every game I could ever want in a typical steam sale for that amount.

As I remember, PS games were around $30 at launch (admitting my memory is fuzzy on this one),
PS2 games were between $40-$50 at launch.
PS3 games are pretty set at $60 at launch with the "special" editions being $70+

It makes sense that the cost of the games will go up. $80 might be an exaggeration,
it will probably be more like $70 with the price dropping dramatically within a year, but make no mistake, the price will go up, and developers will say that the price of games is too high, but won't actually do anything about it, because of course their games are the only ones that justify the insane price tag.

RhombusHatesYou:

Yeah but it's a mid-range GPU, and even then it's the lower powered D series version more akin to the M series versions made for laptops than the 'standard' versions made for discrete GPU cards.

Might be fixable by just upping the number of GPU cores at the expense of CPU cores.

Either way, I believe cost will be the overriding concern not power. Sony has seen what happened with the PS3 and PSV. Not to mention that the global economy is currently in the toilet.

I dunno... you might be underestimating the effects things such as switching CPU architecture and the inherent problems of APUs (they're bastards for heat management) will have on the traditional resource efficiency of consoles, not to mention fundamental shift in design theory from 'gaming machine' to 'home entertainment and social media centre (oh yeah, they still play games, I guess, if that's your thing)' that we've seen happening.

I think you are worrying too much - we don't even know if the rumours are true.

Not sure if it has already been posted but just so you guys know, if these specs are real then the final console wont have 16GB of RAM.

These leaks are based on dev kits of the consoles and dev kits almost always come with double the memory for debugging purposes.

SpAc3man:

Rayken15:
Everything sounds good except the RAM. Isn't 16GB a bit of an overkill?

Not if it allows the majority of a game to be cached for instant loading. Good idea if you ask me. Windows Vista onward use large amounts of RAM effectively by caching things that are expected to be loaded soon. RAM will also be shared with the GPU portion of the APU.

OT: The AMD A10 would make a very capable console part. It is a good inexpensive mid range CPU with a decent mid range integrated GPU. With the highly optimised OS and software consoles use it will be very powerful.

Going by the hard drive size it is obvious that it is in fact an SSD. This thing is going power on and load almost instantly.

My only disappointment is there is no mention of DisplayPort which is better than HDMI in terms of tech specs and the fact it is royalty free. Although seeing as Sony is one of the founders of HDMI I am not surprised.

Maybe it's a matter of coding, but after assembling so many gaming PCs and benchmarking them I've yet to find a game that gets a consistent advantage from 16GB of System RAM, even the highest speed. Even though it makes us more money we argue against customers requesting 16GB of RAM for a gaming rig as we know we'd be taking advantage of them.

16GB only really comes into it's own for processes that don't need to be fast but deal with a lot, like photoshop, video editing and making 3D models and animations. So basically game development.

8GB is just about ideal for even the most demanding games.

I think a likely scenario is the console plan to launch with 8GB, but the dev-kit models have double the RAM (16GB) just to make it easier to tweak, create and combine elements with the goal on the dev-kit to get the system memory usage down to only 8GB which will be the launch version.

Though it may be even half that, 4GB of RAM would be very affordable yet very capable on a console with refined specs and no Operating-System overhead. Xbox 360 has done so well on only 512MB of RAM shared between CPU and GPU. 4GB would be 8 times that, that is three Moore's Law doubling, what you'd expect over 6 years. 2013 is 6 years since PS3 launched in Europe.

Eclipse Dragon:

Treblaine:

Eclipse Dragon:
I have a hard time believing anything created by Sony is "very affordable".
It might be like the Vita, where the system price seems reasonable, but you need to pay extra for essentials.
...

Price for games at launch: $80.00

WHOOA WHOA WOW!!

Hold the phone, EIGHTY SMACKEROONS!

PC games are right now selling for the low low price of FREE (to play), I can barely afford console games at the equivalent of $60 (40). My PS3 controller is collecting dust not because I can't find games worth playing but because I cannot justify the cost of each game. $80 would end up being 55 in the UK, that's a total turn off. I could buy almost every game I could ever want in a typical steam sale for that amount.

As I remember, PS games were around $30 at launch (admitting my memory is fuzzy on this one),
PS2 games were between $40-$50 at launch.
PS3 games are pretty set at $60 at launch with the "special" editions being $70+

It makes sense that the cost of the games will go up. $80 might be an exaggeration,
it will probably be more like $70 with the price dropping dramatically within a year, but make no mistake, the price will go up, and developers will say that the price of games is too high, but won't actually do anything about it, because of course their games are the only ones that justify the insane price tag.

Look, games don't HAVE to endlessly go up in price because we are not in fact all earning more money with lower essential expenditures (rent, mortgages, car-payments, fuel for heating+transport, food, etc)

Our pockets are not bottomless.

An INEVITABLE RESULT of higher game price is people buy less games. The risk of each game becomes SO HIGH that developers NEVER want to take any risks, they just copy the last game with incremental improvements and people only invest in sure-bets that they know their friends will play so they aren't at risk of spending their entire disposable income of a month on a game that none of their friends play.

LOOK AT PC GAMING!

game price goes down = sales go up = revenue goes up.

Each copy is CHEAP to make, it's just an optical disc that can be mass produced for less than $1 per boxed copy.

If this generation is made on the foundation ofr games being any price higher than $80 then it is on the road to disaster.

If we make it clear NOW that we will not accept $80 then we will ALL be better off.

The question is, will the rich-boys screw it for everyone buying at $80 and throwing away their money they hold no value of and leaving everyone else high as dry. Will console gaming become an elite hobby that average earners will pay through the nose just to experience a small part of?

RicoADF:

if their smart they will offer a 'premium' edition that supports full backwards comparability..... for a price

It might defeat the purpose if the premium is too high a price.

For example, if the Premium version costs more than a "core" PS4 PLUS the price you'd get from selling your PS3... then it makes more sense jsut to keep your PS3 and get core PS4.

Backwards compatibility made sense with PS1 to PS2. I sold my PS1 then used the money I made from that to help pay for PS2 yet I could still play all my PS1 games. Gamecube didn't have backwards compatibility but it sold for $99 when PS2 sold for $299.

Treblaine:

If this generation is made on the foundation ofr games being any price higher than $80 then it is on the road to disaster.

If we make it clear NOW that we will not accept $80 then we will ALL be better off.

The question is, will the rich-boys screw it for everyone buying at $80 and throwing away their money they hold no value of and leaving everyone else high as dry. Will console gaming become an elite hobby that average earners will pay through the nose just to experience a small part of?

Personally I already don't purchase games at launch because of the price tag. Why should I when the game's price will inevitably drop less than a year worth of waiting? Sometimes we even get GOTY editions that have all the DLC packaged in. It makes no sense to buy a game at launch unless it's a game that I just really REALLY wanted.

From just general chat on this site, quite a few people also do this, yet we have not seen any drop in price. So why do developers keep charging $60 for their games and then complain when people people buy used? Are there really that many rich kids willing to throw down money at launch or is it something else? I really don't know.

Eclipse Dragon:

Treblaine:

If this generation is made on the foundation ofr games being any price higher than $80 then it is on the road to disaster.

If we make it clear NOW that we will not accept $80 then we will ALL be better off.

The question is, will the rich-boys screw it for everyone buying at $80 and throwing away their money they hold no value of and leaving everyone else high as dry. Will console gaming become an elite hobby that average earners will pay through the nose just to experience a small part of?

Personally I already don't purchase games at launch because of the price tag. Why should I when the game's price will inevitably drop less than a year worth of waiting? Sometimes we even get GOTY editions that have all the DLC packaged in. It makes no sense to buy a game at launch unless it's a game that I just really REALLY wanted.

From just general chat on this site, quite a few people also do this, yet we have not seen any drop in price. So why do developers keep charging $60 for their games and then complain when people people buy used? Are there really that many rich kids willing to throw down money at launch or is it something else? I really don't know.

That's not a workable model. By waiting you are screwing the developers who get paid based on sales per quarter, and the retailer usually buys games for a price then lowering it later pretty much fire-sale prices to cut their losses making no profit or a loss even. And the dependence on pre-owned market is a further problem, it's sharing one actual sale the developers make money from amongst many.

People SHOULD buy games when they want to play them, but they can't for the price. the PS1 era was such a boom time because $30 was a cheap price yet earnings were high and cost of living was low. Now games cost twice as much, gas costs 4x as much (cuts into disposable income) and median incomes have pretty much frozen.

The problem is the publishers are in a trap of their own making, they drove up the price by being greedy, but drove down new sales.

Instead of selling each game for $60 where it will be resold to 3-4 different people, they could sell the game for $30 to each of those 4 people ONCE.

RhombusHatesYou:

newwiseman:
Regardless, my point was about how the A10 APU is using GPU tech 6 generations newer than what is in the 360.

Yeah but it's a mid-range GPU, and even then it's the lower powered D series version more akin to the M series versions made for laptops than the 'standard' versions made for discrete GPU cards.

Any fear that the A10 APU will be underpowered is misplaced

I dunno... you might be underestimating the effects things such as switching CPU architecture and the inherent problems of APUs (they're bastards for heat management) will have on the traditional resource efficiency of consoles, not to mention fundamental shift in design theory from 'gaming machine' to 'home entertainment and social media centre (oh yeah, they still play games, I guess, if that's your thing)' that we've seen happening.

That every thing else requires very little power, facebook, twitter, light internet browsing. Hulu and Netflix streaming are probably the most intense task in the everything else category and a Raspberry Pi can do that, err well as soon as they sort out the audio issues with the Android 4.0 release.

For game designers they will want all that to stop while playing most games regardless of what the system can handle. Probably savestate everything running to drive cache when you launch a game, and then have system integrated tasks available from the system menu in game. Last thing someone playing the next Battlefield or COD will want is a notification poping up, and the last thing the game devs will want to think about is how many apps are currently running when they launch this.

True the APU's don't have the most high end components but to be better than current gen that isn't necessary. Without discrete graphics AMD's APUs dominate on GPU tasks, and anything done in a console would be integrated. Plus they don't want these thing to retail at $500 while still talking a loss, they'll want to come in around and hopefully below $350 for base models. Plus Sony isn't going to use some off the shelf A10, they'll get something custom.

Vivi22:

Magichead:
these new consoles will be obsolete at launch, and within a year or two we'll be back to where we are today, with PC's capable of truly outstanding performance being held back by the limits of another platform.

This would be different from every other console generation how? Because the 360 and PS3 were nothing that spectacular based on specs alone at launch. The disparity between previous consoles and PC's tended to be even worse.

Yes, but prior to the current generation of consoles, PC gaming was a discrete market with developers who catered to it, now PC gaming is an afterthought for developers who focus mainly on consoles, and the vast majority of the games we do get are ports of console titles with the bare minimum of effort required to achieve functionality on the platform the extent that developers will work on them.

The majority of the remaining minority of titles which are developed specifically for the PC are indie games who's creators are limited by their available resources, F2P social games that look like they've stepped right off the screen of a Gameboy Color, and MMOs who's business model requires them to be compatible with five+ year old hardware(the easiest way to achieve such being to simply design the game for such outdated hardware rather than to design a fully-scalable system).

The quality of PC games are dependent on the limitations of console titles more than at any time since the two became commonplace, and that's why it depresses me that console makers are once again engaging in a race to the bottom; because my enjoyment is going to be limited and the value of my investment in a gaming PC diminished, and because the limitation is going to be extremely pronounced given that the proposed PS4 specs(to which we can infer the 720 will be fairly close) aren't even capable of running features a modern-day budget gaming rig can(if you think you're going to see Tesselation or the improved particle effects and lighting of DX11, you're dreaming).

Owyn_Merrilin:

RhombusHatesYou:

Owyn_Merrilin:
And welcome to America, where the minimum wage is only $7.25 an hour, and even "real" jobs don't pay as much as equivalent jobs in Australia.

Yet the average American wage is about 15-20% higher than the Aussie average wage, and that's calculated in 'international dollars' which are based on the purchasing power of the US dollar.

Have you got a source on that? Because I've always understood Australians made more in general. They have to, because the cost of living over there is through the roof compared to what it is in the US. Video games are hardly the only thing that you guys get charged more for.

When we're talking about game prices.
In Norway a ps3 game costs the double of what it costs in the US and 1/3 more than in costs in Australia.

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