Wii U Update Eats Most of Basic's 8GB

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Imat:

rhizhim:

the WII "fuck" U should have a failsafe like these system backups..

A backup for the 5 GB of updated data? On the 8 GB drive? Me thinks it unlikely this is a possibility for them.

That being said, 8 GB is unreasonably small for a modern console. It must've cost more to get that small a drive as opposed to a larger one. I'm not blaming the system failure on Nintendo's software people, they're working completely within the bounds of their hardware. Their hardware people should've thought the drive space through better.

no, a backup of the files nessesary to start your console and try again if you experienced some difficulties.

some updates just replaces parts of the software in a step by step method so if anything happens they know they just have to keep going at point x.

others download just a portion of it, install/update it and then continue to download the rest. may take more time for the update but it doesnt turn your extreemly resticted console into a brick.

hell, downloading a file as large as 5gb in a single run is pretty idiotic.

the wii u is just like a zombie, relatively powerfull but lacks a lot of brains.

GUYS GUYS GUYS, can anyone link me a page or anything where Nintendo officially said that the update is 5gb? because the only thing i've seen is one dude's twitter, not the most reliable of sources.

also Firmware updates will kill any system if you interrupt it by turning of the power during the process.

the rest here is copy-pasted from a post i made on a similar thread on this forum

sure a 5gb(citation needed) day 1 update should not happen but the worst thing that can happen is that you get a power outage(I'll get back to this one) or you/someone else unplugs the console. otherwise it's just a minor drawback that requires some patience, i mean it's just been launched and there will be plenty of time to play with it after the update.

now as for power outages, this is unlikely, sure it can happen and i feel bad for those that it has happened to. but unless you live in an area where power outages are frequent this shouldn't be a problem. If you happen to live in such an area then i assume gaming is already very inconvenient and you have invested in some form of safety mechanism.

herpaderpa he unplugged during an update.

How shit are the people creating the updates that they do it during the download!? Oh, my power came off during the update because I live in a rural area and I have a slow internet. Well, fuck you then!

shintakie10:
Two things here.

1. It amuses me that even consoles can't get away from day 1 updates.

What do you mean "Get away from day 1 updates"? Why would you want to do that. Day 1 updates are, simply put, easy ways for developers to solve any problems that they couldn't hammer out before launch. They spend about 3-4 months AFTER they're done with development just waiting for release. Why not, instead of having them sitting around doing nothing, take advantage of the prevalence of the internet and get straight to work fixing any bugs that didn't get fixed? Seems like a pretty damn good idea to me.

shintakie10:

2. How retarded do you have to be to unplug a console in the middle of a system update? There's always a big ass warnin "Dont unplug or power down the console during this update." I haven't tested this myself, but I suspect if you unplugged say...a 360 when they did their new dashboard update halfway through you'd also end up with a lovely paperweight as well.

Would you? To my knowledge, if you accidentally unplug the 360 while *downloading* the update, you would at least be forced to start the download again, and at most be required to restore the 360 to factory default. The Wii-U doesn't appear to have ANY backup systems at all.

Besides, mistakes happen, and 5 gigs of data can take a LONGGG time (in the neighborhood of days) to download for many people. It's just good that this was discovered by a reviewer early on and not during some future update. Hopefully now Nintendo will at least come with a back-up system.

Any issues with the 360 or others are (to my knowledge) always when the system is disconnected while the update is being applied and not while the update is just plain downloading. That is some pretty stupid engineering to not automatically back up the original when downloading a new update. As for what happens while applying the update...that's a bit more understandable, but should still at LEAST have a "restore to factory default" option.

shintakie10:

Magichead:

saleem:
Lol I get it that every new piece of hardware comes with teething problems but you cant blame everything on it. This article is just illustrates user stupidity kicking in, you know off the bat that you dont have much in the way of storage. That being the case your first action should be to stick an external drive or high capacity pen drive into the machine. Honestly its not like this issue hasnt been discussed in length by everyone who is involved in games. Additionally anyone who has used a console in the last 7 years or so knows that you dont interrupt updates or game saves/loads or it could lead to data corruption.

Finally the article title is misleading - instead it is regaling us with stories about the incompetence of someone and tries to lay the blame at ninty's feet.

Sorry, but there is no excuse whatsoever for designing a modern computing device which can be totally bricked by something as simple as an update being interrupted. There are any number of scenarios in which such a thing could happen which require no "user stupidity" at all, and other companies are evidently capable of designing systems capable of withstanding such mundane errors; why is Nintendo's inability to do so anyone's fault but Nintendo's?

Here's a fun thing to try. Next time you have to update to a new windows service pack, unplug your computer halfway through. Come back and tell me how it goes.

Oh oh, also. Next time Sony or Microsoft do a new dashboard update, or whatever the hell Sony uses, unplug the system halfway through the update. Tell me how nice your paperweights are after.

This guy is a grade A idiot. Every single system update has a chance to royally fuck you over if you're a massive idiot. Why would you unplug durin a system update? At all? If the system forced an update when he loaded it up, even if it didn't brick the console, what part of his brain thought it wouldn't just restart the forced update?

Exactly, turning off ANY system during an update will break it. The guy is an idiot and moron and the reason we get stupid warning on everything, including a "don't turn the system off while updating you f#$@en idiot" that all systems have (minus the last 3 words) and yet he ignored.

Is there any confirmation that the download is actually 5GB?

Because I've been reading a lot of comments from first-day buyers, and a lot of people are saying that even with their slow internet connections, they've managed to download the update between half an hour and 45 minutes.

Is it not perhaps somewhat likely that the reason the download was taking so long initially was because Nintendo's servers were taking a pounding from the massive surge of traffic. I could very well be wrong, but it seems silly to me that people are taking this 5GB claim as gospel, despite the fact that there doesn't seem to be much of a source for it at all. Just one guy on Twitter who was himself quoting an anonymous rumour.

doomspore98:

A Smooth Criminal:

doomspore98:

That may be true, but it is still silly to blame the person updating when the article said that there were no warnings given, what if a 5 year old was playing. Do you think that they would know that you shouldn't unplug the system?

A 5 year old shouldn't be using the console by themselves anyway, generally at that age a parent is required for the console setup. And generally the common sense things is that when something is updating, you leave it alone. I know that you don't always have to leave things alone while they update, but it's the logical thing to do when you're not sure.

Besides, warranty means that they can get free replacements.

But that brings us back to the point of the unexpected, what if there is a power outage, what if somehow someone trips over a cord and accidentally unplugs it. Warranty is great and all, but what if it happens when the warranty expires.

When the warranty expires the problem is fixed.

Honestly, it's a day 1 release. Give me the name of one console that didn't have problems day 1.

And this is one of the many, varied reasons why I NEVER buy a console at launch.

Call me in a year when there's a solid library of games, people aren't trampling over each other to buy one for their little shit kids, and (most importantly) all the hardware issues have been ironed out.

But, I'm also gonna jump on the "you done goofed" train. Really, WHY would you stop a system in mid-update? That's just asking for trouble.

shintakie10:
Here's a fun thing to try. Next time you have to update to a new windows service pack, unplug your computer halfway through. Come back and tell me how it goes.

Yeah, just tried that. It went great. On restart, I had to manually restart the download, but then it finished, and the update installed, no problems.

EDIT: Full version: It's not "just tried that", I bricked a desktop in ~2004, when I lost power while doing a bios upgrade. I've lost power during two updates (one XP update around 2006, and an ME install back in... god, I think 2001). I've seen Vista service pack updates get killed mid update.

As I recall, ME was the only system that proceeded to shit itself and die. Though, as I recall it was prone to doing that on it's own without any external intervention.

EDIT 2: and come to think of it, I've seen my Gateway FX actually commit suicide mid update on a service pack and it needed to do a self repair, but it was a simple fix.

medv4380:

Magichead:
Sorry, but there is no excuse whatsoever for designing a modern computing device which can be totally bricked by something as simple as an update being interrupted. There are any number of scenarios in which such a thing could happen which require no "user stupidity" at all, and other companies are evidently capable of designing systems capable of withstanding such mundane errors; why is Nintendo's inability to do so anyone's fault but Nintendo's?

LOL, I love the rantings of the ill informed.
There is a reason EVERY computer says
"DO NOT INTERRUPT WHILE PERFORMING SYSTEM UPDATES".

Well... yeah... wait a moment...

Karloff:
"There was no warning and no cancel button," Fritz Tweeted. "Just a super slow progress bar. No explanation beside 'system update.'"

So, while sure, there must be a warning because no one would be stupid enough to put a system on the block like that without taking some steps to avoid it being bricked.

medv4380:
If you do that to Windows at the wrong moment you can fry it, and require it to be re-installed. You do that to the PS3 or 360 at the moment it's updating the firmware you'll fry them too. Their is almost certainly a way for him to Restore his Wii to working condition, but he'll ether need to download something, and boot it with a restore, or he'll have to send it to Nintendo so they can run it themselves. I'm not too sure if Nintendo would be eager to allow a functional restore too out of their service department since that would lead to wide spread hacking quickly. There is a reason people like me like to have their PS3 and other Firmware Updating devices hucked up to a UPS when we run updates. Unless you like the risk of breaking expensive equipment you should always follow the instructions.

Yeah, because no one would ever be dumb enough to actually run the update while downloading, that's just insane.

Except, of course, that's exactly what appears to have happened here. The system was applying the update as it was being downloaded.

Okay, I can understand how this makes sense from a DRM stand point. If you never leave a console with the full install file, it's harder to reverse engineer outside of the system as a whole... but, at the same time it also means that just using a UPS won't cut it. And of course it doesn't keep a backup, because you could potentially compare what the patch is writing to the backup...

Yeah, this has all kinds of smart written all over it. I'd say unplugging the machine was a dumb move, but, honestly, the reporter would have had to work pretty damn hard to one up Nintendo here.

Mygaffer:

Magichead:

saleem:
Lol I get it that every new piece of hardware comes with teething problems but you cant blame everything on it. This article is just illustrates user stupidity kicking in, you know off the bat that you dont have much in the way of storage. That being the case your first action should be to stick an external drive or high capacity pen drive into the machine. Honestly its not like this issue hasnt been discussed in length by everyone who is involved in games. Additionally anyone who has used a console in the last 7 years or so knows that you dont interrupt updates or game saves/loads or it could lead to data corruption.

Finally the article title is misleading - instead it is regaling us with stories about the incompetence of someone and tries to lay the blame at ninty's feet.

Sorry, but there is no excuse whatsoever for designing a modern computing device which can be totally bricked by something as simple as an update being interrupted. There are any number of scenarios in which such a thing could happen which require no "user stupidity" at all, and other companies are evidently capable of designing systems capable of withstanding such mundane errors; why is Nintendo's inability to do so anyone's fault but Nintendo's?

Try updating the BIOS of any modern computer.

On my modern computer (Laptop. Acer Aspire 5745G) the BIOS update procedure is:

Step 1: Download .zip archive containing updated bios in .exe format

Step 2: Uncompress .zip archive

Step 3: Run the uncompressed .exe

Step 4: Watch progress bar for a few seconds

Step 5: Computer automatically restarts

Step 6: BIOS update complete

i feel no sympathy...you bought something called a WiiU. What the hell did you expect?

DO NOT POWER DOWN THE DEVICE WHEN THIS SYMBOL IS FLASHING

Ok, fine, no warning, no symbol.

Oh wait, no, you get PAID to write about technology and you did this? No, sorry, entirely your own fault.

Magichead:

saleem:
Lol I get it that every new piece of hardware comes with teething problems but you cant blame everything on it. This article is just illustrates user stupidity kicking in, you know off the bat that you dont have much in the way of storage. That being the case your first action should be to stick an external drive or high capacity pen drive into the machine. Honestly its not like this issue hasnt been discussed in length by everyone who is involved in games. Additionally anyone who has used a console in the last 7 years or so knows that you dont interrupt updates or game saves/loads or it could lead to data corruption.

Finally the article title is misleading - instead it is regaling us with stories about the incompetence of someone and tries to lay the blame at ninty's feet.

Sorry, but there is no excuse whatsoever for designing a modern computing device which can be totally bricked by something as simple as an update being interrupted. There are any number of scenarios in which such a thing could happen which require no "user stupidity" at all, and other companies are evidently capable of designing systems capable of withstanding such mundane errors; why is Nintendo's inability to do so anyone's fault but Nintendo's?

To be fair, most consoles won't take kindly to shutting them off during system updates.

So, after doing my research and giving it some thought, I've come to the following conclusions:

1) Highly unlikely the update was 5gb, given that others have reported downloading fairly quickly and high server traffic is another potential culprit for a slow download. Given that Nintendo seems to be going the "BYO harddrive" route it's not out of the question that 8gb would be reserved primarily for the OS (though I'm not convinced that's the case), and even if it were I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing (unless the reported compatibility issues are correct).

2) The guy should have known better than to switch off during a system update.

3) Nintendo should have known better than to assume people would know better. Again, assuming the source is reliable (I have my doubts), the lack of a warning being displayed is inexcusable. Updating the firmware as it downloads is an interesting idea, and not necessarily a bad one, but if you're going to do that you REALLY should have failsafes, and it would appear Nintendo didn't have them.

So all in all, Nintendo's error, but hopefully gets resolved soon.

Jegsimmons:
i feel no sympathy...you bought something called a WiiU. What the hell did you expect?

2000+ posts and that's what you got?

I'm a bit disappointed :/.

On Topic, I dunno, sounds like this is fake.

I cannot BELIEVE there are people criticizing Nintendo for this. You don't unplug a system during the middle of a critical update, that's like the biggest no-no there is outside of physically assaulting the console.

It would be nice if Nintendo found a way to make the console recover from power drops during updates, but there's certainly no rule saying consoles should have to compensate for people completely misusing them in this manner.

In fact, I don't care if it's because of a power outage either. Is it too much for Nintendo to assume people have stable power? I know power outages happen, but everyone knows you shouldn't try to update during a thunderstorm or if you know you have a shaky connection. The likelyhood of the average person spontaneously losing power during the 90 minute update window is pretty damn low and I imagine these things come with some kind of warranty in case of freak accidents.

WiiU: Not moron proof.

So... what happens if you live somewhere with an unreliable internet connection and it goes down while you're in mid-update?

rhizhim:

the WII "fuck" U should have a failsafe like these system backups..

lol The Wii FU. Thank you so much, I'm gonna have to remember that one.

And a 5GB update in an 8GB device? What the flying fk is that but an upraised middle finger from Nintendo less than gently inserted into their customers? And here I thought my ancient 360 hard drive was an absurd ripoff; looks generous compared to this crap.

There was a time when I would envy early console adopters. Now I just pity them, victims of the hype machine.

A 5GB update? That has got to be exaggeration on the author's part; no company could have the brass-neck to release an update that, even on a good connection, would take about an hour to download. Surely?

I know a lot of people have already said he was stupid for unplugging and that's true, but I got the impression from how the situation was described that he thought the system had crashed. I've found myself in that situation before: where I can't tell if my patches are installing slowly or if it's froze, (the only matter of recourse for which is a hard reset,) and I would be even more prone to confusion when installing a ridiculously sized update like what he's describing.

That being said, I'd probably check online before doing anything as rash as unplugging the system. Yet another reason I never go in for day-one consoles purchases.

So what if this guy deliberately disconnected his Wii U to see what would happen. Perhaps he was running a "test" with the knowledge that either by accident or stupidity that this kind of thing might happen more than once to lots of people. Either people unplugging their console, or perhaps something as mundane as a downed internet, or worse, a power cut.

To completely kill the console with no hope of recovery is just mindbogglingly incompetent on NintenD'OHs part.

OlasDAlmighty:
I cannot BELIEVE there are people criticizing Nintendo for this. You don't unplug a system during the middle of a critical update, that's like the biggest no-no there is outside of physically assaulting the console.

It would be nice if Nintendo found a way to make the console recover from power drops during updates, but there's certainly no rule saying consoles should have to compensate for people completely misusing them in this manner.

In fact, I don't care if it's because of a power outage either. Is it too much for Nintendo to assume people have stable power? I know power outages happen, but everyone knows you shouldn't try to update during a thunderstorm or if you know you have a shaky connection. The likelyhood of the average person spontaneously losing power during the 90 minute update window is pretty damn low and I imagine these things come with some kind of warranty in case of freak accidents.

WiiU: Not moron proof.

Seriously? You don't know why Nintendo are to blame?

1) System updates rule 1 : Minimize the time you're in an inconsistent state. This means do not update during the download. I can't speak for the PS3 (but I imagine it to be the case), but for the 360 there's download, then update. Not following this rule is pretty much the dumbest thing you can do when designing updates.

2) No warning. Games have the "If you see this icon, don't unplug because it's saving" for a 30 second save, where the very worst that could possibly occur is you lose progress. Not having it for a system update is outright awful.

3) No backups for something the average user is expected to do. Most updates will backup first, then try the update. If the update fails for whatever reason, the boot process will roll back. Again, I can't speak for PS3, but I have powered down my 360 during a dashboard update, and it was fine (on next boot, it just restarted the update). Modern motherboards have a backup BIOS in case you try to update that and it fails.

4) Poor progress indication. It's a design point, sure, but it's considered good practice for anything that could be lengthy to ensure the user never feels it to be stuck. Progress bars usually work fine for this, but there's other things that will help if it's going to take so long the bar might not work well enough, for example written progress (either as a percentage or a actual amount of data).

This is really stupid, consoles should have fail safe in case you interrupt updates. I mean even iPhones can revert back to the previous version in such a situation, can't they?

And before anyone responds with 'well then don't interrupt the update', how about you really think that through? What if the console freezes? What if you lose internet from an outage at that time? (happens here all the time)

Or worse yet, what if there is a power failure?

All of these are very real and sometimes even likely scenarios depending on your living conditions. It is utterly absurd that in this day and age they would make updating your console so dangerous. This was a two hour+ update for some people as well, which just increased the likelihood that something would happen.

A Smooth Criminal:

Honestly, it's a day 1 release. Give me the name of one console that didn't have problems day 1.

NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube... I just kept to the Nintendo brand to prove the point (there is a lot more). But yeah, I am pretty sure all those consoles just worked out of their respective boxes. No red ring, system updates or flesh eating locusts to be found!

Mygaffer:
Try updating the BIOS of any modern computer.

Flashing BIOS does not take nine damn hours.

9thRequiem:

OlasDAlmighty:
I cannot BELIEVE there are people criticizing Nintendo for this. You don't unplug a system during the middle of a critical update, that's like the biggest no-no there is outside of physically assaulting the console.

It would be nice if Nintendo found a way to make the console recover from power drops during updates, but there's certainly no rule saying consoles should have to compensate for people completely misusing them in this manner.

In fact, I don't care if it's because of a power outage either. Is it too much for Nintendo to assume people have stable power? I know power outages happen, but everyone knows you shouldn't try to update during a thunderstorm or if you know you have a shaky connection. The likelyhood of the average person spontaneously losing power during the 90 minute update window is pretty damn low and I imagine these things come with some kind of warranty in case of freak accidents.

WiiU: Not moron proof.

Seriously? You don't know why Nintendo are to blame?

1) System updates rule 1 : Minimize the time you're in an inconsistent state. This means do not update during the download. I can't speak for the PS3 (but I imagine it to be the case), but for the 360 there's download, then update. Not following this rule is pretty much the dumbest thing you can do when designing updates.

Do you really think downloading while it updated really slowed it down much? Fact is Nintendo doesn't want people to have to wait a long time to start using their game console, forcing people to sit through a whole download AND a whole update separately would drag out the overall process considerably, especially for people like me with slow connections to begin with. Nintendo was more concerned about this than the unlikely chance the console might somehow lose power during the update. And I'm glad, it'll end up saving me time when I finally get a WiiU and have to update it.

9thRequiem:
2) No warning. Games have the "If you see this icon, don't unplug because it's saving" for a 30 second save, where the very worst that could possibly occur is you lose progress. Not having it for a system update is outright awful.

I agree with you on this, no matter how obvious it might seem to us, something this important demands a warning message of some kind.

Still, what moron really needs that warning? He knew it was a system update, he knew it was in the middle of the update because the progress bar wasn't full. When I was 9 I knew better than to do this. I still call this 30% bad design 70% user stupidity.

9thRequiem:
3) No backups for something the average user is expected to do. Most updates will backup first, then try the update. If the update fails for whatever reason, the boot process will roll back. Again, I can't speak for PS3, but I have powered down my 360 during a dashboard update, and it was fine (on next boot, it just restarted the update). Modern motherboards have a backup BIOS in case you try to update that and it fails.

I think someone else already pointed out that trying to create a backup with an 8GB hard drive, 5GB of which was already filled up by the update itself, would be somewhat impossible. But that's a bit beside the point.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that just because Nintendo COULD put in such a safety measure, it doesn't mean they're obliged to, or even that it's bad design for them not to.

They could have made the system waterproof too I bet, but unless the console being submerged in water is a serious concern, it's not going to be worth all the extra money needed to add that feature. I've updated my Wii god knows how many times, my numerous PCs even more times, I've even updated my 3DS several times now. So far I have lost power during an update exactly zero times, nor have I stupidly decided to unplug my console mid-update. The likelyhood of a power outage coinciding with a critical system update just isn't very high.

Life is chaotic, any number of things could go wrong at any moment, but that doesn't mean Nintendo should be expected to prepare their console for every single worst case scenario, and derided if something bad ever happens to it. There's a reason warranties exist. In Fritz's case I don't think he even deserves to have his warranty cover what happened, he earned his brick.

Also, this might not be important, but there's a difference between "powering down" a system and simply unplugging one from the wall.

9thRequiem:
4) Poor progress indication. It's a design point, sure, but it's considered good practice for anything that could be lengthy to ensure the user never feels it to be stuck. Progress bars usually work fine for this, but there's other things that will help if it's going to take so long the bar might not work well enough, for example written progress (either as a percentage or a actual amount of data).

Oh boo hooo. As if somehow this is a uniquely Nintendo problem. I don't know how progress bars work but I've never seen a steady one in my life. I would imagine by this day and age we've all learned to be patient enough with these things that we can sit through a brief spell of no apparent progress without losing our minds and assuming something's gone wrong.

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