Fitch Rates Sony Debt as Junk

Fitch Rates Sony Debt as Junk

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"Continuing weakness" in home entertainment product line is part of the reason why ratings agency Fitch cut Sony's rating.

On the heels of a lackluster fiscal quarter report, Fitch Group has cut Sony's debt rating down to Junk status, otherwise known as BB- or "non-investment grade." The ratings agency cites "continued weakness" in home entertainment, sound and mobile products as the reason why investing in Sony's debt is only for the courageous or speculative investor. This comes at a bad time for Sony, which only last week had announced a plan to raise capital with another round of convertible bond sales.

Fitch's move has been criticized by Japanese bank Sumitomo Mitsui Trust CIO Masahi Oda. "I don't envision the current situation continuing," said Oda, tacitly acknowledging that Sony's current position is less than desirable. "A collapse of their core business would be a problem, but we are not at that point yet."

Oda may be correct. Though the last fiscal report made for pretty grim reading, it did at least indicate some significant recovery on the home entertainment front - a loss of $203 million, as opposed to the previous year's harrowing $526 million - and Sony's mobile operation is generating significant revenue.

However Fitch is right to say that a strong Yen and falling demand - particularly in China - has had significant impact on Sony's earnings potential. Also, though mobile sales and home entertainment are doing better than they have before, a loss is still a loss; neither mobile nor home entertainment has made it into the black yet.

Source: Reuters

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I'm inclined to agree with Oda. Sony's on some rough ground at the moment, but they're clawing their way back, and I have a feeling the holiday season is going to give them a sizable boost. Besides, I still don't trust ratings agencies- including Fitch Group- after that whole CDO mess.

Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

What? No, better hardware drives the cost up. Hardware doesn't have to have anything to do with "graphics."

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

OH NO developers may actually have to focus on something like storylines and interesting gameplay rather than graphics. Ah fuckit, they are going to be making WoW clones and MW clones for the next 10 years no matter what.

Eri:
Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

Yes yes, the infamous "Five Hundred Ninety-Nine US Dollars", I remember that well. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it cost Sony 800$ to actually make a 60gb PS3 at Launch? If the PS3 at launch was actually 800$ to make, and they reduced it to 600$, then if the hardware to make the PS4 is about 1000$, then they would probably have to sell it at 800$ because otherwise they'd be taking a very hard hit, one they cannot afford to make. My guess is, the PS4 will have Tech similar to the WiiU (Maybe a little more current), and it will cost 400$ max. They cannot have the PS4 cost "599 US Dollars", they would be hurt even more then they are now.

Eri:

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

Wasn't the PS2 over 1000$ at launch?

ElektroNeko:

Eri:

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

Wasn't the PS2 over 1000$?

No, it was 299$, with software being 49$ a piece.

Mr.Mattress:

Eri:
Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

Yes yes, the infamous "Five Hundred Ninety-Nine US Dollars", I remember that well. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it cost Sony 800$ to actually make a 60gb PS3 at Launch? If the PS3 at launch was actually 800$ to make, and they reduced it to 600$, then if the hardware to make the PS4 is about 1000$, then they would probably have to sell it at 800$ because otherwise they'd be taking a very hard hit, one they cannot afford to make. My guess is, the PS4 will have Tech similar to the WiiU (Maybe a little more current), and it will cost 400$ max. They cannot have the PS4 cost "599 US Dollars", they would be hurt even more then they are now.

I agree they cannot afford another pricing gaffe like 599$ or even 499$. Though I do quite strongly believe they are willing to take a much bigger loss per unit than Nintendo, which means I could see their 350-400$ unit having much greater hardware than a Wii U.

I'm surprised they didn't just blame it all on piracy like they normally do.

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

How long were they selling the PS3 at a loss? All they really need is to rebuild investor confidence, coming out with a more powerful product and some decent launch titles would do that. As long as they don't fuck-up the storage capacity.

Formica Archonis:
I'm surprised they didn't just blame it all on piracy like they normally do.

Sony been bought out by Ubisoft has it? :P

Mr.Mattress:
I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

They so can.

Of course it would take a great deal of pride swallowing, the licensing of AMD or Nvidia hardware and not spending six years developing a proprietary processor (and media format) with virtually no RAM. Also not paying extra for the latest name on the GPU chip won't hurt, Sony never did disclose how much they were paying for a cut up Nvidia 7 series gpu, bet it was a lot.

Interestingly, the WiiU runs on a variant of the Cell processor (by IBM). Sony could easily build a graphic power house by buying in AMD A-series chips and jamming in 6GB of 1800mhz RAM. A-series shares system and Vram, fitting a stick of fast RAM amounts to free overclocking.

Complete laptops are already being sold with this set up for under $600, remove the need for screens, pci slots, daughter boards and Windows licenses, a PS4 could easily hit under $400 with a quad core chip and current gen gpu and be profitable.

Of course, Sony being Sony will never do this, the plan must be stuck to, all the way into the meat grinder.

DVS BSTrD:

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

How long were they selling the PS3 at a loss? All they really need is to rebuild investor confidence, coming out with a more powerful product and some decent launch titles would do that. As long as they don't fuck-up the storage capacity.

Doesn't matter: For most of the PS3's life, it's high price range made it dead last in sales of Home Consoles. Investors aren't gonna be confident in an ultra-powerful system that blows the WiiU out of the water, that costs 1000$ to make and sells at 800$ dollars. The PS4 is going to have to be a lot more like a PS2 to make investors confident: Something cheap, and that means something not graphically superior.

These ratings agencies are the most useless companies in the world. The only time they've been in the news is when their actions caused a country in troubles to really go down the shitter.

How many PS3 games are sold for what royalty to Sony? $10? $15? And still revenue for PSP and PSV games.

That has to be huge revenue, is Sony losing money on their Playstation brand?

"Home entertainment" is pretty broad, what are they losing money on that? Does that include their Vaio computer brand, Bravia TV? Because SOny needs to be prepared to cut their losses now and reinvest their resources into Playstation.

Sony really can't afford to have the PS4's launch be mediocre and that's before the possibility that they'll have it sell at a loss. And considering how Sony's engineers don't have a single concern for making sure people can afford their products, the PS4 will probably be overpriced.

Whilst Sony has their problems no doubt, The day I give any weight to credit agencies is the day I forget that they rated Bear Sterhns (sp?) Lehman Brothers etc AAA until the day before they collapsed. So clearly they either have no clue what they are talking about or are so entrenched in the sectors they monitor as to be utterly worthless.

Treblaine:
How many PS3 games are sold for what royalty to Sony? $10? $15? And still revenue for PSP and PSV games.

That has to be huge revenue, is Sony losing money on their Playstation brand?

As great as many Sony games are, the sad fact is that PS3 games sell considerably less than their 360, and often PC, counterparts. The only place they tend to be higher is in Japan, but Japanese numbers alone tend to pale compared to the American and European markets. Even worse, Sony's exclusives don't tend to sell all that highly. Gran Turismo 5 did well by selling over 9 million copies, but apart from that, none of their exclusives (MGS, Uncharted, Killzone) have sold in higher quantities than exclusives for the PS2. In fact, most of Sony's exclusives have struggled to make it beyond the 3 million sales mark. While those aren't bad figures, you have to remember that Sony is paying for development and marketing of its first-party titles. Those have to be recouped before they can then start using the money to offset the money they lost selling the PS3 under cost. Not only that, but while the PS3 is no longer selling at a loss, the Vita is. And it's tanking hard. Sony has exchanged one expensive, loss-leading console for another.

Consider this. Before this year, Sony had had only ever have to close down one of its fifteen or so first-party studios. This year, after yet another year of losses, they shut down two. That is an unprecedented move by them, and is a sign of just how financially strapped they are.

Or just consider this: Sony's worth as a company has gone from $120 billion in 2002, to $11 billion now. That's a 90% drop off. Their stock is trading at an all time low.

This goes beyond any one department being any more successful than others. The entire company is in a financial black hole, and it's going to take them shedding deadweight and cutting costs across all boards if they want avoid bankruptcy.

"Home entertainment" is pretty broad, what are they losing money on that? Does that include their Vaio computer brand, Bravia TV? Because SOny needs to be prepared to cut their losses now and reinvest their resources into Playstation.

Gaming is not going to be Sony's saviour. Sony was an electronics behemoth because there was a time when their electronics were recognised as being the best, and were therefore the most popular. You only have to look at the ubiquity of the Walkman to see this. Nowadays, other companies have stolen that mantle. Apple and Samsung dominate the smartphone market, while Sony's Ericcson/Xperia line dwindle with the other non Galaxy/iPhone phones. Samsung and others have stolen their crown when it comes to TVs. Apple have pretty much cornered the portable music market that Sony once held with the Walkman.

Pretty much every market that Sony once ruled, others have taken over. That is Sony's problem. They need to cut back the sheer breadth of electronics they offer, and start thinking more like Samsung or Apple- offer a cut-down, high end range of products (iPhone/Galaxy), rather than bombing a market with dozens of different models of the same thing.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

Treblaine:
How many PS3 games are sold for what royalty to Sony? $10? $15? And still revenue for PSP and PSV games.

That has to be huge revenue, is Sony losing money on their Playstation brand?

As great as many Sony games are, the sad fact is that PS3 games sell considerably less than their 360, and often PC, counterparts. The only place they tend to be higher is in Japan, but Japanese numbers alone tend to pale compared to the American and European markets. Even worse, Sony's exclusives don't tend to sell all that highly. Gran Turismo 5 did well by selling over 9 million copies, but apart from that, none of their exclusives (MGS, Uncharted, Killzone) have sold in higher quantities than exclusives for the PS2. In fact, most of Sony's exclusives have struggled to make it beyond the 3 million sales mark. While those aren't bad figures, you have to remember that Sony is paying for development and marketing of its first-party titles. Those have to be recouped before they can then start using the money to offset the money they lost selling the PS3 under cost. Not only that, but while the PS3 is no longer selling at a loss, the Vita is. And it's tanking hard. Sony has exchanged one expensive, loss-leading console for another.

Consider this. Before this year, Sony had had only ever have to close down one of its fifteen or so first-party studios. This year, after yet another year of losses, they shut down two. That is an unprecedented move by them, and is a sign of just how financially strapped they are.

Or just consider this: Sony's worth as a company has gone from $120 billion in 2002, to $11 billion now. That's a 90% drop off. Their stock is trading at an all time low.

This goes beyond any one department being any more successful than others. The entire company is in a financial black hole, and it's going to take them shedding deadweight and cutting costs across all boards if they want avoid bankruptcy.

"Home entertainment" is pretty broad, what are they losing money on that? Does that include their Vaio computer brand, Bravia TV? Because SOny needs to be prepared to cut their losses now and reinvest their resources into Playstation.

Gaming is not going to be Sony's saviour. Sony was an electronics behemoth because there was a time when their electronics were recognised as being the best, and were therefore the most popular. You only have to look at the ubiquity of the Walkman to see this. Nowadays, other companies have stolen that mantle. Apple and Samsung dominate the smartphone market, while Sony's Ericcson/Xperia line dwindle with the other non Galaxy/iPhone phones. Samsung and others have stolen their crown when it comes to TVs. Apple have pretty much cornered the portable music market that Sony once held with the Walkman.

Pretty much every market that Sony once ruled, others have taken over. That is Sony's problem. They need to cut back the sheer breadth of electronics they offer, and start thinking more like Samsung or Apple- offer a cut-down, high end range of products (iPhone/Galaxy), rather than bombing a market with dozens of different models of the same thing.

I was asking how well Playstation brand was doing relative to their other brands. For example I know Playstation isn't doing all that bad:

http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/Software/Global/

Xbox 360 global software sales: 687.60 million copies
Playstation 3 global software sales: 599.44 million copies

Xbox 360's Software sales are only 14% ahead to spite a 1 year lead.

And Sony has a higher proportion of First Party sales, first party is when Sony takes more than a ROyalty, they take ALL the return of the game (after tax and disc-manufacturing cost). Each 1st-party PS3 game may not sell as well as Microsoft's exclusives but they have MORE 1st party games so to the point it's near as damn the same as Xbox 360's earning from 1st party games! PS: MGS4 is not first party, it's exclusive but Sony gets the same royalty per MGS4 game sold as any other PS3 game like Assassin's Creed.

Also in the Playstation brand:

Playstation 2 global software sales: 1,638.95 million (still selling up till relatively recently)
PSP global software sales: 279.02 million
PSV global software sales: 6.78 million (since February 2012)

Sony online entertainment also makes money selling games on PC (with some crossover on PS3):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Online_Entertainment

while the PS3 is no longer selling at a loss, the Vita is. And it's tanking hard.

In what way is PSV tanking "hard"? It's only been out since February.

Sony had had only ever have to close down one of its fifteen or so first-party studios. This year, after yet another year of losses, they shut down two.

Sony has shut down studios before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment#Owned_franchises_and_properties

Game Republic - Defunct 2011
989 Studios - Defunct 2005
Incognito Entertainment - Defunct 2009
Relentless Software - Self-publishing 2009
Bigbig Studios- Defunct 2012
Zipper Interactive - Defunct 2012
SCE Studio Liverpool - Defunct 2012
LightBox Interactive (32 employees) - Independent 2012
Eat Sleep Play - Independent 2012

As has Microsoft:

Aces Studio - Defunct 2009
Bungie - Independent 2007
Carbonated Games - Disbanded 2008
Ensemble Studios - Defunct 2009
Flight Team - Defunct 2006-2012
Hired Gun - Defunct 2007
Artoon - 2010
Bizarre Creation - Sold 2007, Defunct 2011

I'm afraid studios being closed down doesn't explain continuing poor profits. If anything it should explain profits increases as expenditures have fallen. It's an indication of hard times, not the cause of hard times. Many many studios are being closed down at the moment, by why is Sony suffering worse than others?

Companies stocks are falling EVERYWHERE. Have you seen THQ? Even EA's stock looks like a long downhill ski-slope.

Gaming is not going to be Sony's saviour.

But then you point out very accurately that Sony is no longer the kind of home music and gadgets, with Apple and Samsung having taken those with Xperia and so on being toxic brands... how does that discount Playstation? Playstation has a much better reputation than Xperia or even Vaio.

Look, Sony is competing much better with Microsoft. It ACTUALLY STANDS A CHANCE with Microsoft in that area, it's the ONLY other real competitor to the Xbox brand (Nintendo still isn't quite serious).

Sony doesn't stand a chance against Samsung or Apple as they have PROVEN! SOny has a lead in video games, it needs to push with it's strengths, not copy its old competitor.

They need to cut back the sheer breadth of electronics they offer

In for a penny, in for a pound. Cut out EVERYTHING except their video game properties and maybe their Vaio brand that is still quite valuable. Bravia, Xperia and so on, forget about it. They cannot give up on Playstation brand.

Sony doesn't jsut make tech, they also have huge presence in Hollywood films, US TV and music recording industry.

fix-the-spade:

Interestingly, the WiiU runs on a variant of the Cell processor (by IBM).

Only in the same sense that Xbox 360 ALSO uses a variant of the Cell Processor.

See, the Cell has two different parts:

1 PPE = the core processor for general calculations

8 SPE's = the "extra" processing elements, not quite distinct general-processors, more like the shaders of a graphics card. (in the playstation 3 one is inactive while one is dedicated to OS tasks so effectively only 6 available)

The Xbox 360's tri-core CPU was essentially 3 PPE's of the Cell processor without any of the SPE's.

The SPe's of PS3's Cell processor are weird things, they are not like any conventional CPU element and frankly not suited to the Video Games industry which is trying to find ways to cut development costs. Cell processor was made for super-computers, which are required to work in a very different way from a games console.

PS: WiiU's exact specifications are not known, but from the nm die size and apparent size of CPU and heat output it seem to in fact be less powerful than Xbox 360's CPU. This doesn't prove that you don't need more CPU power for the next console generation... this simply proves WiiU is not a next-gen console, it's a "catch up" console.

Sony just needs to keep doing what it is doing, PS3 has quite a bit more life in it, if it keep selling quality games then people will keep buying them making Sony more money.

A gaming world governed completely by Microsoft and Nintendo sounds like a bleak one to me.

Treblaine:

I was asking how well Playstation brand was doing relative to their other brands. For example I know Playstation isn't doing all that bad:

http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/Software/Global/

Xbox 360 global software sales: 687.60 million copies
Playstation 3 global software sales: 599.44 million copies

PS2 global software sales: 1.5 billion as of 2010.

Ending this generation with less than half the software sales of your last console is not a way for any company to make money. Not when you're investing more into the development of software for this generation anyway.

while the PS3 is no longer selling at a loss, the Vita is. And it's tanking hard.

In what way is PSV tanking "hard"? It's only been out since February.

It's been getting outsold by the PSP, the system it was designed to replace. Not only that, but it's been getting outsold by the 3DS at an embarrassing rate. According to Pocket Gamer, the 3DS is outselling it at a rate of 13:1.

What's worse is that the Vita's lack of sales is scaring away developers. No-one wants to develop games for a console with few buyers, no matter how powerful it is. The PS2 got more third-party titles than the Xbox because it had a much higher install base. The 3DS currently has sold much more than the Vita, and hence most of the handheld developers are gravitating towards it.

That is not what you want to happen when you've put a large investment into making your handheld a tech-heavy gadget, and are selling it at a loss. Sony should have learned this lesson with the PSP, but they seemingly didn't. Two million unit sales for a console after nearly a year at retail is pitiful. It means that people aren't attracted to it, and there isn't any great demand for it. And because Sony is manufacturing each unit at a loss, a lack of demand directly correlates to sharp losses in terms of revenue.

Sony has shut down studios before

My bad. The business article I read about Sony's stock prices claimed otherwise.

Companies stocks are falling EVERYWHERE. Have you seen THQ? Even EA's stock looks like a long downhill ski-slope.

Other companies doing crap financially does not make Sony's financials any better. Again, they've suffered a 90% drop in worth as a company. Those are pretty depressing numbers.

Gaming is not going to be Sony's saviour.

But then you point out very accurately that Sony is no longer the kind of home music and gadgets, with Apple and Samsung having taken those with Xperia and so on being toxic brands... how does that discount Playstation? Playstation has a much better reputation than Xperia or even Vaio.

Because the profits of the PS3 cannot offset the losses of Sony's TVs, phones, or even their other consoles like the Vita. They are hameorraging money. When your ship is sinking that fast, it doesn't matter if the kitchen is taking on water at a slightly lesser rate to bunks. You need to stop that intake of water now.

Look, Sony is competing much better with Microsoft. It ACTUALLY STANDS A CHANCE with Microsoft in that area, it's the ONLY other real competitor to the Xbox brand (Nintendo still isn't quite serious).

Eight years ago, Sony dominated Microsoft.

The PS2 happily trounced the Xbox, and became the most succesful console ever. Sony didn't just win the 6th generation, they resoundingly crushed Sony and Microsoft with the most succesful console ever. Going from that to third place in a three-horse race is not a good sign to investors. A profitable company would be one that could maintain that lead, and expand their market. The PS3 has half the sales figures of the PS2. It has sold less than the 360 or the Wii. For a company to go from undisputed market leader to that position in 7 years is not a sign of healthy business.

Sony doesn't stand a chance against Samsung or Apple as they have PROVEN!

Yes they do. The problem is that their current focus is all wrong. Right now, Sony is run by engineers. That means that it's chucking out about a million products with all sorts of random technology in, with no concern for branding or, more importantly, price.

Samsung and Apple are not doing anything new. They are simply doing what Sony used to do. Releasing high quality yet affordable electronics, and using strong marketing to create a resonance with consumers. Notice how both Apple and Samsung have used readily identifiable, easily pronouncable names for their iPhone and Galaxy products? What sort of competition is Sony offering? The Sony Ericsson XPERIA Ray? The XPERIA X8? Man, those names just roll off the tongue. Apple offers mp3 players like the iPod Touch, the iPod Shuffle, and the iPod Nano. What does Sony offer? The Walkman NWZ-E436. Good luck remembering that when you're asking a shop clerk about mp3 players.

Sony would absolutely stand a chance against Apple and Samsung if they got off their arses and actually started making electronics that consumers want, not just random stuff their engineers want to fuck around with like 4K TVs, and remembered how to come up with an easy, recognisable name to remember like Walkman, rather than using barcodes as their product names.

For Sony to become nothing more than a videogame company would be for them to take the final leap from a $11 billion company (already low by their standards) to whatever paltry (in comparison) number companies like EA and THQ are worth. For their investors (who, let's remember, are king), that would come across as nothing less than a deliberate attempt to decrease the company's worth, and lessen their stock value. And pissed investors are not what makes a succesful company.

SOny has a lead in video games, it needs to push with it's strengths, not copy its old competitor.

No, Sony is currently in third place in videogames, and has already been copying its competitor with the likes of Playstation Move. That is not a strong position on which to base an entire change of company philosophy, and resulting economic upheaval.

They need to cut back the sheer breadth of electronics they offer

In for a penny, in for a pound. Cut out EVERYTHING except their video game properties and maybe their Vaio brand that is still quite valuable. Bravia, Xperia and so on, forget about it. They cannot give up on Playstation brand.

Yes they can. For Sony to wilfully abandon the electronics market in order to focus on games would be for them to piss off every investor, shareholder and accountant the company has. People invest in Sony because its an international company with fingers in every electronic pie imaginable. For Sony to give that up would be akin to telling investors that they're taking their money and running with it.

Sony doesn't jsut make tech, they also have huge presence in Hollywood films, US TV and music recording industry.[/quote]

Jeffers, you completely screwed up quoting me. How is anyone supposed to reply to that mess? I can't even keep track of what's my quote and what is yours.

Being a PC gamer... I can't have Sony go! They have Planetside 2, dammit!

ElektroNeko:

Eri:

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

Wasn't the PS2 over 1000$ at launch?

You might be recalling some supply problems at launch that, in some areas, resulted in shortages that put the secondary market into play for holiday buying and there were consoles going for four and five times their actual retail prices due to scarcity. In my office there were several ladies shopping for their children that holiday season and unable to find them in stores a lot of them came to me to ask if they should buy the one they saw on E-bay or someplace - if it was worth it, what games it had, all the stuff they didn't know because they were buying it for their kids and not game players themselves. (If you're curious: I told them to get themselves on the order wait lists and give their kid a gift receipt in the card - at least it's a promise of the gift they want) I think the resupply was sometime in early January ? ish I don't remember that part too clearly, none of them came up later and told me how their kids liked it and I wasn't buying mine yet.

Also, some things I think that will make the PS4 worth a good chunk of my money: ability to play 3D Bluray, backward compatibility with PS3 games, carry over of all PSN and + accounts, Netflix (which they have, and should keep, it's handy), and... a couple good titles with some perk exclusives (though I'm generally against them, so maybe some meaningless at launch wouldn't hurt.

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Well, not exactly. Hardware power has increased significantly while hardware costs have conversely lowered in the last few years. It would be fairly simple to make another high-powered console and keep a similar (if not lower) price point to the PS3's launch, if that's the market Sony wanted to pursue.

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

They sold PS3's at a profit ($1200AUD, at the time about $1100USD) in Australia because everyone hates us.

Eri:

Mr.Mattress:
Well it's official now: There is no way the PS4 can blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of graphics. If it does, then it would continue to hurt Sony, because greater graphics = greater price tag, and no one is gonna by a $1000 console. I can now officially guarantee that whatever Sony does, it won't be making the PS4 the Super Graphics Machine.

Sony has never made a 1000$ Playstation. At most, the 60gb launch ps3 cost 600$. Which is still a far cry from 1000$. iPads come in varieties more expensive than the launch price.

The PlayStation 3 sold for $999 in Australia when it launched. http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/156710/playstation_3_cost_829_999/

if they don't make it back up, i hope whoever ends up picking up the pieces does a better job managing it

And this is why I cringe every time I see fanboi crap about one console or another. Because people don't realize just how quickly things could turn sour, and one of the "big three" suddenly vanishes off the radar.

Two of the "big three" could leave the market with just one bad board room meeting. And let's face it, a lot of Sony's money problems lately can be traced to the PS3 launch and further on. At one point, their gaming portion of the company was doing so poorly that they cut it up and hid it in multiple divisions under "entertainment" to make the data harder for their stock holders to follow. That's NOT a good sign, folks.

And the biggest problem of all is that Sony clearly doesn't know what it needs to do to turn things around. I mean, Wonderbook, seriously?

If Sony doesn't get its shit together, we may be witnessing the death of one of the big three before this global recession is over. And all of gaming would be worse for wear because of it.

 

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