Google Rallies Opposition to U.N. Internet Treaty

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Sir Shockwave:

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Sir Shockwave:
So where can I find this Petition?

Depends where you live at. The US's House of Representatives have already condemned the bill so there's no need to Petition against this in the US. I managed to find a petition for New Zealand if that's where you live.

What about the UK? Is David Cameron being an idiot as usual?

I haven't been able to find any petition for the UK, but since it need a unanimous decision from all members of the UN it doesn't really seem likely that it will be passed anyway.

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Sir Shockwave:

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Depends where you live at. The US's House of Representatives have already condemned the bill so there's no need to Petition against this in the US. I managed to find a petition for New Zealand if that's where you live.

What about the UK? Is David Cameron being an idiot as usual?

I haven't been able to find any petition for the UK, but since it need a unanimous decision from all members of the UN it doesn't really seem likely that it will be passed anyway.

Fair enough. Just wanted to be sure I did my part.

Giving government more power over the internet? Hell the fuck no. All for seperation of tech and state!

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Sir Shockwave:
So where can I find this Petition?

Depends where you live at. The US's House of Representatives have already condemned the bill so there's no need to Petition against this in the US. I managed to find a petition for New Zealand if that's where you live.

WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE!!! <------- lives in NZ too

thesilentman:
The Internet is a work of art (how I look at it) that spans the entire world. Taking that away is going to be a major, major travesty to all of us. I'm with Google on this one; even though we have sites like 4chan and YouTube, there's enough positivity and good things that make the Internet worth its place in the world today and the future.

Where is it? All I ever hear nowadays is people screaming "entitled" and "first world problems" at everything they don't agree with. Everywhere I do someones gotta pick a fight with me over the smallest, minute details.

Every time humanity invents something awesome, sooner or later someone comes along who wants to ruin it for everybody. Usually someone who doesn't understand how that something works. And usually that someone is a fuckin' politician.

Awexsome:
Google quite frankly should be sending cooperation to getting this done right instead of trying to rally opposition for it.

Individual countries are just going to lock down the internet a bit more on their own and the offenders will look for loopholes or jurisdiction arguments to get around them resulting in tighter restrictions in a never ending cycle. A U.N. or worldwide agreement on something like this is sorely needed because the internet needs and will have more regulations and supervision put on it. Question is will each country try to do it individually or try to do it unified and the U.N. is the best way we have to try and do that.

It's ability for easy international cooperation and communication is unmatched however it's ease to commit crime is also unmatched on a global scale. The world needs to be on the same page to deal with the type of people who would abuse the internet and be shielded with every loophole and jurisdiction argument they can cook up to keep getting away with harming people or entire other countries.

Except the UN FAILS in 99% of EVERYTHING IT DOES.

It failed on whaling.

It failed on child trafficking.

It failed on sex trafficking.

It fails on humanitarian causes.

everything.

The reason for this is because member nations form voting blocs to force others to do what THEY want. They don't care for other people's views.

The UN is more flawed than the current US political system, and for the same reasons. You don't trust the UN with anything important and expect a good result.

"Today, the European Parliament passed a resolution that condemns the upcoming attempt from the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to assert control over the Internet, and instructed its 27 Member States to act accordingly. This follows an attempt from the ITU to assert itself as the governing body and control the Internet."

http://falkvinge.net/2012/11/22/european-parliament-unanimously-passed-resolution-against-itu-asserting-control-over-internet/

"1. Calls on the Council and the Commission to ensure that any changes to the International Telecommunication Regulations are compatible with the EU acquis and further the Union's objective of, and interest in, advancing the internet as a truly public place, where human rights and fundamental freedoms, particularly freedom of expression and assembly, are respected and the observance of free market principles, net neutrality and entrepreneurship are ensured;

2. Regrets the lack of transparency and inclusiveness surrounding the negotiations for WCIT‑12, given that the outcomes of this meeting could substantially affect the public interest;

3. Believes that the ITU, or any other single, centralised international institution, is not the appropriate body to assert regulatory authority over either internet governance or internet traffic flows;"

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&reference=P7-RC-2012-0498&language=EN

so I guess EU isnt really happy about it either.

RaikuFA:

thesilentman:
The Internet is a work of art (how I look at it) that spans the entire world. Taking that away is going to be a major, major travesty to all of us. I'm with Google on this one; even though we have sites like 4chan and YouTube, there's enough positivity and good things that make the Internet worth its place in the world today and the future.

Where is it? All I ever hear nowadays is people screaming "entitled" and "first world problems" at everything they don't agree with. Everywhere I do someones gotta pick a fight with me over the smallest, minute details.

While there are a bunch of reasons to counter your view, ill just use one. You can learn now, in 5 minutes, more than you could learn 15 years ago, in a day. And thats if you were in a good country with libraries and supported knowledge. A 3rd world country child, would NEVER dream of learning ANYTHING 15 years ago. but now they give out internet in public spaces n shitty laptops. and they can surf away into knowledge. You can learn so fast, so easy, so much now, if you went back in time you would feel despaired. Just imagine for a second 20 years ago, that you couldnt google a particular subject that came to your mind. You couldnt ask a question, then boot up a browser and find the answer immediatly. And as for veritable source material, while the internet material isnt as trustworthy as librarian and encyclopedic support, you have SO many more different sources of information, the sheer ammount more than makes up for the less trustworthy sources.(personally i always found encyclopedic knowledge extremely bias, even with all the scrutinized checking).

Oh and, if you think that no one uses the internet for knowledge....:) thats just the lazy people. And lazy people have never seeked knowledge, no matter what era it is.

For some reason I can't see how something like this would be bad business for companies like Google. More control over the internet would filter out a bunch of the small/medium infrastructure/hosting/dns/content-providing enterprises. Profits for the big fish would promptly skyrocket once they started making deals with the governments.

Would anyone care to enlighten me with the other side of things (ie. the reason google decided to oppose this project instead of embracing it)?

Changes to the domain name system? I'm compelled to quote Randall Munroe on this one:

"A message from sysadmins everywhere: Seriously, do not mess with the DNS. If you break the internet, we are NOT building you a new one."

Anyone else find this funny coming from a company that chose to accept censorship demands from, wait for it, China concerning their web-browser? So they are worried that a free internet would be stifled by these countries while the first response of this free internet (Google) is to hold the countries hands through these acts of censorship so they don't lose a bit of cash. Yeah, I totally believe Google has my best interests in mind and if I follow the money I won't find any financial incentive at all behind this counter-movement.

wombat_of_war:
seriously what is with it with governments and trying to "fix" things that arent broken.

all i can really say is build the future you want to see not the future a well paid suit or someone who fears a disenting view wants

It's not a case of fixing what isn't broken, it's about taking control of something that you don't already have control over.

Countries that censor the internet to prevent their citizens from being able to read anything bad about their leaders are the major backers of this treaty. While many people might despise the U.S. having a lot of power over the internet, letting countries that actually censor the internet for the goal of political oppression define the terms of the treaty does not sound good.

This shit is terrorism. All I can say is, there will be blood and I won't be the only one spilling it, if this is passed.

*Hits buzzer*

What is the most pointless and useless act since Texas wanted to secede from the US?

Alex: You are correct.

I'll take Ridiculous And Redundant for 600, Alex.

RaikuFA:
With how people act on the internet, I'm starting to think it's worth doing.

Hopefully it'll never be as draconian as SOPA.

If you want CHINA or IRAN (or any islamic government for that matter) to have a say in controlling the world wide internet not just their own corners of it then you need help.

OT: I dont support assassination or anything like that, but if someone droped the idiot that proposed this, I may throw an icecream party, and I mayyy invite them..

(Mod note: I dont really support assassination, its a joke.)

It's like they still think the internet is something that even can be quantified and regulated. Short of unplugging from the network entirely, you can't restrict or regulate the internet. As China has proven, there are ways around everything.

canadamus_prime:
What we need are international standards for internet numbering, naming, addressing and identification resources, which I thought we already had. We don't need bureaucrats who don't know anything about this stuff interfering.

this.

ALso, as much as i hate that US CONTROLS 90% of domains having one company control it is not any better. In this case what UN is trying to do is good, but what it will result it isnt. government are humans too after all.

Strazdas:

canadamus_prime:
What we need are international standards for internet numbering, naming, addressing and identification resources, which I thought we already had. We don't need bureaucrats who don't know anything about this stuff interfering.

this.

ALso, as much as i hate that US CONTROLS 90% of domains having one company control it is not any better. In this case what UN is trying to do is good, but what it will result it isnt. government are humans too after all.

It's not altogether a terrible idea, but what I think is needed is the formation of a completely new international organization to regulate this sort of thing. One that is not tied to any to any one country, not bound or influenced by politics, and will not be influenced by government policies. Also run entirely by IT professionals and no bureaucratic idiots.

EDIT: And not influenced by multinational corporations or media lobbyists (like say, Hollywood or the Music Industry) either.

Oh great. Just what the internet needed these days and everything! Let's drown it in a beaurocratic nightmare where such fine nations as Russia, USA and China gets a say! Nothing bad could ever come out of -THAT-!

/SarcasmFollowedByFacepalmingAWallToDust

Captcha: laser beams

Appearantly captcha thinks laser'ing them to death is the only way to be sure. Didn't know it could be so militant about the internet remaining free.

samahain:

TV & Radio where intended as a mean to educate and inform the masses. Then it started being used for propaganda. And now, we have entertainment. Ads and reality TV. That's why I don't have cable anymore.

...So we give the internet over to a central broadcaster that can - like a TV network - determine content top-down (with input from the most vocal public and financial contributors of course)... And that will make the internet better? Safer?

Absofluffin' nonsense.

The internet is ours and it's free.

Shaidz:

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Sir Shockwave:
So where can I find this Petition?

Depends where you live at. The US's House of Representatives have already condemned the bill so there's no need to Petition against this in the US. I managed to find a petition for New Zealand if that's where you live.

WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE!!! <------- lives in NZ too

Here you go.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/vote-against-the-itu-having-regulatory-authority-over-t.html

Shouldn't really be necessary though since the US is a definite opponent to the bill which means it won't get the unanimous agreement it need to pass.

...Sigh. Some people never give up, do they? Where's that petition anyway?

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Shaidz:

Al-Bundy-da-G:

Depends where you live at. The US's House of Representatives have already condemned the bill so there's no need to Petition against this in the US. I managed to find a petition for New Zealand if that's where you live.

WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE!!! <------- lives in NZ too

Here you go.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/vote-against-the-itu-having-regulatory-authority-over-t.html

Shouldn't really be necessary though since the US is a definite opponent to the bill which means it won't get the unanimous agreement it need to pass.

CrazyGirl17:
...Sigh. Some people never give up, do they? Where's that petition anyway?

There's also,from what I can tell, a petition run by Google that seems international, here's a link.
https://www.google.com/takeaction/

RaikuFA:

thesilentman:
The Internet is a work of art (how I look at it) that spans the entire world. Taking that away is going to be a major, major travesty to all of us. I'm with Google on this one; even though we have sites like 4chan and YouTube, there's enough positivity and good things that make the Internet worth its place in the world today and the future.

Where is it? All I ever hear nowadays is people screaming "entitled" and "first world problems" at everything they don't agree with. Everywhere I do someones gotta pick a fight with me over the smallest, minute details.

I find most of the positive stuff while going through the Internet randomizer AKA StumbleUpon. And another guy beat me to the other part of why the Internet is good for us right here:

draythefingerless:
While there are a bunch of reasons to counter your view, ill just use one. You can learn now, in 5 minutes, more than you could learn 15 years ago, in a day. And thats if you were in a good country with libraries and supported knowledge. A 3rd world country child, would NEVER dream of learning ANYTHING 15 years ago. but now they give out internet in public spaces n shitty laptops. and they can surf away into knowledge. You can learn so fast, so easy, so much now, if you went back in time you would feel despaired. Just imagine for a second 20 years ago, that you couldnt google a particular subject that came to your mind. You couldnt ask a question, then boot up a browser and find the answer immediatly. And as for veritable source material, while the internet material isnt as trustworthy as librarian and encyclopedic support, you have SO many more different sources of information, the sheer ammount more than makes up for the less trustworthy sources.(personally i always found encyclopedic knowledge extremely bias, even with all the scrutinized checking).

Oh and, if you think that no one uses the internet for knowledge....:) thats just the lazy people. And lazy people have never seeked knowledge, no matter what era it is.

The irony is that on any other issue if you said 'controlled by large US corporations' people would immediately call it evil and partition to change it but here the Us corporations are apparently the better option. This actually reminds me a lot of Valve, the benevolent tyrant who at any point could turn Steam into a true thing of evil and yet nobody talks about how they hold you like a spider over the fire. Same with these companies.

hm, which devil should i choose? the one in the suit or the one in the suit?

Petition for UN Internet Treaty:
http://www.protectinternetfreedom.net/

Petition for Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement:
http://stopthetrap.net/
(The TPP is basically the same if not worse; It will basically make corporations dictators of the internet.. If you live in Canada or the US (I think EU is also involved in this) then sign that as well.

Also for Canadians sign this too:
http://openmedia.ca/StopSpying
(Bill C-30 will force ISP's to log and record everything you do on the net and legalize warrantless spying, thus turning this country into a policed state.)

Lastly there's the Canadian-European Trade Agreement (CETA) & American-European Trade Agreement (AETA) which contains the same provisions as the Anti-Counterfeit Trade Agreement (ACTA) which will make it illegal for you to even try to protect your right to privacy on the internet. I think the ACTA provisions were taken out of AETA but I'm not too sure on that. I encourage anyone who wants their human-rights and freedoms to be protected on the net to sign these.

Nimbus:
Giving government more power over the internet? Hell the fuck no. All for seperation of tech and state!

Neither one corporation or Gov't should have power over the internet unless say it be of some harm to people or sights that promote vile things like child porn, live executions, and promoting violent campaigns against any group of people. Also no one Corporations should have complete control over locations that they buy out that makes the consumer unable to have choice in who they want as a provider and etc. Also the only other thing the Gov't should protect is security information like social security, credit information, and federal documents with the best tech they have and not some subpar shit a person in their mothers basement can hack...

weirdguy:
hm, which devil should i choose? the one in the suit or the one in the suit?

LOL I agree that neither having complete power is a good idea and honestly with the people in power it seems impossible to strike that right balance to where everyone can be happy since some greedy bastard wants more than any other person...

I helped fight Steven "freedom hating" Conroy's plan to censor Australian Internet. I can't stand anyone who would censor information, because they only want to control us. The worst thing is they all do it under the guise of "stopping child porn" painting those who oppose it pedophiles, the censors do not stop child porn. They stop political freedom and limit the populations education on the world so they will eventually know nothing different to what their government is telling them. The average Chinese person does not know about the Tianamin square massacre and the average Japanese person does not know about Perl Harbor.

Don't support censorship, support freedom of education, politics and communication.

thesilentman:

RaikuFA:

thesilentman:
The Internet is a work of art (how I look at it) that spans the entire world. Taking that away is going to be a major, major travesty to all of us. I'm with Google on this one; even though we have sites like 4chan and YouTube, there's enough positivity and good things that make the Internet worth its place in the world today and the future.

Where is it? All I ever hear nowadays is people screaming "entitled" and "first world problems" at everything they don't agree with. Everywhere I do someones gotta pick a fight with me over the smallest, minute details.

I find most of the positive stuff while going through the Internet randomizer AKA StumbleUpon. And another guy beat me to the other part of why the Internet is good for us right here:

draythefingerless:
While there are a bunch of reasons to counter your view, ill just use one. You can learn now, in 5 minutes, more than you could learn 15 years ago, in a day. And thats if you were in a good country with libraries and supported knowledge. A 3rd world country child, would NEVER dream of learning ANYTHING 15 years ago. but now they give out internet in public spaces n shitty laptops. and they can surf away into knowledge. You can learn so fast, so easy, so much now, if you went back in time you would feel despaired. Just imagine for a second 20 years ago, that you couldnt google a particular subject that came to your mind. You couldnt ask a question, then boot up a browser and find the answer immediatly. And as for veritable source material, while the internet material isnt as trustworthy as librarian and encyclopedic support, you have SO many more different sources of information, the sheer ammount more than makes up for the less trustworthy sources.(personally i always found encyclopedic knowledge extremely bias, even with all the scrutinized checking).

Oh and, if you think that no one uses the internet for knowledge....:) thats just the lazy people. And lazy people have never seeked knowledge, no matter what era it is.

The knowledge stuff is awesome, but outside of that it's just disturbing and depressing. Ask a question and get chewed out for it.

I'm so tired of fighting....so tired....

BiH-Kira:
We have China and Russia supporting this law. Does anyone seriously think that law would be any good for the internet?

I do. It would take internet away from US agencies and companies that fall under silly US laws, and place them in the hands of far more capable caretakers.

To name an example, the bullshit case against Megaupload including the illegal seizing of pretty much the whole company in order to kill it off without ever going to trial, would never have been possible in a justice state. That's only possible because the internet is so US-centered.

In any other country you'd need to prove first why you want to seize those things and what the evidence value of them is.

With this treaty individual countries get more influence on the internet, and that's a good thing, because right now a lot of internet activities blatantly violate the law around here because, hey, it's allowed in the US, and the US spans the entire globe.

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