Judge Tells Apple Samsung Won't Wipe it Out

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Judge Tells Apple Samsung Won't Wipe it Out

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Apple hasn't persuaded Judge Koh to impose a Samsung US sales ban.

In the latest twist in the Apple-Samsung patent war, Apple has been unable to persuade Judge Lucy Koh that a sales ban on Samsung's products in the US ought to be imposed. Judge Koh threw out the request, saying that Apple had lost sales, but that wasn't enough to support the irreparable harm criteria for a ban.

"Samsung may have cut into Apple's customer base somewhat," said Judge Koh in her ruling, "but there is no suggestion that Samsung will wipe out Apple's customer base, or force Apple out of the business of making smartphones. The present case involves lost sales - not a lost ability to be a viable market participant."

Apple had tried to argue that its "ecosystem" had somehow been damaged by the Samsung infringement, but Judge Koh was having none of it. Ecosystem, to her, was just another word for downstream sales, and while she was prepared to believe that Apple had lost sales, that harm wasn't enough to support a ban.

Nor was she convinced that the loss of sales necessarily had anything to do with the Samsung infringements. "Apple has simply not been able to make this showing," she declared.

Apple is expected to appeal this decision.

Source: Guardian

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The case was hopeless to begin with. You can't demand a total monopoly be enforced by a court, even if you could prove blatant theft and use of copyrighted tech, it would violate anti-trust laws.

And that Apple's got little besides bullshit doesn't help their case either. It's like sueing all car companies and demand they stop selling cars because you also happen to sell cars, and they're clearly nicking the idea of moving around in a motorised vehicle.

No, that doesn't work, not even in the US.

Mentioning that they cut into Apple's customer base seems a bit odd; I thought that was what a competitor was supposed to do.

Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

vun:
Mentioning that they cut into Apple's customer base seems a bit odd; I thought that was what a competitor was supposed to do.

It is, which is why the Judge so kindly informed them their case was full of shit.

A global corporation is actually told "no you can't have a legally binding monopoly" by the US courts.
It's like seeing a shooting star; rare & beautiful

Hey Apple, maybe you should try something else like oh I don't know try to make a better product that can compete with what Samsung is making as well as maybe trying to be more competitive with your pricing. Ya know? Stuff that companies normally do when they want to win over customers.

It's nice having sensible judges

Wait, what? Apple actually tried to ban Samsung products from the US because they had the sheer gall to actually persuade people to go with them instead of Apple? That is what I just read right? And now they're appealing because they're not allowed a total monopoly?

I have read this correctly, right?!

Blablahb:
The case was hopeless to begin with. You can't demand a total monopoly be enforced by a court, even if you could prove blatant theft and use of copyrighted tech, it would violate anti-trust laws.

That doesn't change the outcome, though. Apple isn't (officially) suing over the right to be a monopoly. And a monopoly could be broken another way.

All I know is I like my iPhone, and I want iPhone 6 (not 5S, SIX), to actually improve some shit, so I also want Galaxy to improve some shit, otherwise Apple will EVIDENTLY NOT improve (because Steve died, so why act lik Apple, let's act like MicroSOFT)...

I'm glad there are some sane judges left in the world.

Now if only people would stop paying apple twice as much for something that does the same as the competition.

Cornering the market on rounded edges wasn't enough apparently. This is just shameful.

Atary77:
Hey Apple, maybe you should try something else like oh I don't know try to make a better product that can compete with what Samsung is making as well as maybe trying to be more competitive with your pricing. Ya know? Stuff that companies normally do when they want to win over customers.

Maybe the deal is keeping it overpriced, same reason you'll pay more for an Armani shirt, and no matter what you won't get a cheap Armani (cheap in the sense of price). You're paying for the brand and everything that comes with it. It is illogical, but it's a social thing.
However stepping up to the competition in terms of bringing new features, etc. Well, that can't be argued... Though my father in law has both that latest Galaxy (the pretty one) and iPhone 5, he barely uses the Galaxy, he says he prefers the iPhone, I used his Galaxy a bit, I also prefer the iPhone, BUT it is a real fine phone and though I felt apple was smoother, samsung also had a very nice feel to it. Let's put it this way, I'd pick iPhone any day, but the differences were minimal, and what really links me to iPhone is the iTunes store, because I have tons of movies, tv shows, music and games that i bought on it; also the immediate synch with iPad, iPod, iMac and Apple TV is VERY helpful.

But I have a rant against some people who badmouth Apple products (for this reason only): they say "wow, their stuff is made for retards, it's too easy to use"... WTF??? Isn't that GREAT? The easier the better, I see my grandfather and the way he suffers to put the DVD to work and I ask myself, this shit should be easier. I'm not going against Galaxy here, no, the little I used it was as easy as the iPhone. I'm just ranting here, but hey, things should become easier, EVERYTHING. If the iPhone is too easy than go use morse code or something... geez...

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

No, when the British judge (or at least I think it was the British case) Not only told Apple they were full of shit by throwing out their case, but also ordered them to post an apology to Samsung on their website, specifically stating that Samsung had in no way breached Apple copyright, that was what I call giving them a whack on the backside, and it was glorious.

Meanwhile over at Google,
image
And hey, it's made by Samsung although their name isn't on the front. Maybe the 16:9 raio differentiates it enough from Apple to not sue? I dunno. These pads are a media format. Just like smartphones, TVs, radios, DVDs, and blu rays. Suing anyone over having a similar design seems rather redundant. It's like Microsoft suing over the use of the term "Operating System". The Apple execs should just go take a dip in their swimming pool full of money and cool off.

Are Apple really trying to say that customers who choose a competitor's product over theirs in a free market are lost sales and should be compensated by a ban on competitor's products? You know Apple you really cannot pick and choose which bits of capitalism you like when it suits you, if you want those customers back release better products at more competitive prices. I really wish the courts would start just throwing these cases out , it is wasting the court's time and the only people benefiting are the lawyers.

Milanezi:

Atary77:
Hey Apple, maybe you should try something else like oh I don't know try to make a better product that can compete with what Samsung is making as well as maybe trying to be more competitive with your pricing. Ya know? Stuff that companies normally do when they want to win over customers.

Maybe the deal is keeping it overpriced, same reason you'll pay more for an Armani shirt, and no matter what you won't get a cheap Armani (cheap in the sense of price). You're paying for the brand and everything that comes with it. It is illogical, but it's a social thing.
However stepping up to the competition in terms of bringing new features, etc. Well, that can't be argued... Though my father in law has both that latest Galaxy (the pretty one) and iPhone 5, he barely uses the Galaxy, he says he prefers the iPhone, I used his Galaxy a bit, I also prefer the iPhone, BUT it is a real fine phone and though I felt apple was smoother, samsung also had a very nice feel to it. Let's put it this way, I'd pick iPhone any day, but the differences were minimal, and what really links me to iPhone is the iTunes store, because I have tons of movies, tv shows, music and games that i bought on it; also the immediate synch with iPad, iPod, iMac and Apple TV is VERY helpful.

But I have a rant against some people who badmouth Apple products (for this reason only): they say "wow, their stuff is made for retards, it's too easy to use"... WTF??? Isn't that GREAT? The easier the better, I see my grandfather and the way he suffers to put the DVD to work and I ask myself, this shit should be easier. I'm not going against Galaxy here, no, the little I used it was as easy as the iPhone. I'm just ranting here, but hey, things should become easier, EVERYTHING. If the iPhone is too easy than go use morse code or something... geez...

The problem I have with Apple products is that while yes, they do make things easier to approach and have very clean interfaces, they give this at the cost of actually being able to do a lot with them. The system is very closed, and after learning how to actually take advantage of a lot of fiddle bits on my phone and computer, having them effectively removed is not an enjoyable prospect. Combine that with their obnoxious advertising (yes, you managed to make a nice feeling product with a lot of polish (not apple maps), but guess what, all the "new" features that keep getting talk up have been done by other companies, often better, years before) and their very cult? (not right word, can't think of a better one) mentality where only their own stuff is worth ever touching (and is the only option in existence) can be very irritating.

However, I have also recommended Apple computers for people before simply because they are still a good choice for some people (though they need the spare cash for the extra cost).

Good luck with that appeal Apple, you're going to need it. Of course, the only reason you won the patent fight in the first place is because you are a popular company. You certainly had no better a legal position than Samsung did but you were smart enough to have a jury of emotional mac-bots vote for you.

Milanezi:

Atary77:
Hey Apple, maybe you should try something else like oh I don't know try to make a better product that can compete with what Samsung is making as well as maybe trying to be more competitive with your pricing. Ya know? Stuff that companies normally do when they want to win over customers.

Maybe the deal is keeping it overpriced, same reason you'll pay more for an Armani shirt, and no matter what you won't get a cheap Armani (cheap in the sense of price). You're paying for the brand and everything that comes with it. It is illogical, but it's a social thing.
However stepping up to the competition in terms of bringing new features, etc. Well, that can't be argued... Though my father in law has both that latest Galaxy (the pretty one) and iPhone 5, he barely uses the Galaxy, he says he prefers the iPhone, I used his Galaxy a bit, I also prefer the iPhone, BUT it is a real fine phone and though I felt apple was smoother, samsung also had a very nice feel to it. Let's put it this way, I'd pick iPhone any day, but the differences were minimal, and what really links me to iPhone is the iTunes store, because I have tons of movies, tv shows, music and games that i bought on it; also the immediate synch with iPad, iPod, iMac and Apple TV is VERY helpful.

But I have a rant against some people who badmouth Apple products (for this reason only): they say "wow, their stuff is made for retards, it's too easy to use"... WTF??? Isn't that GREAT? The easier the better, I see my grandfather and the way he suffers to put the DVD to work and I ask myself, this shit should be easier. I'm not going against Galaxy here, no, the little I used it was as easy as the iPhone. I'm just ranting here, but hey, things should become easier, EVERYTHING. If the iPhone is too easy than go use morse code or something... geez...

Personally I have nothing against Apple products and the like. If people enjoy using them and find that Apple devices suit their needs then that's great! The same can be said for people who prefer Samsung devices. At the end of the day when you have devices so similar and share various features then it all just comes down to personal preferences and what people choose for themselves.

That's what I think is the real crime Apple is committing in all of this. They don't want people to have an alternative choice to their devices. They want to be the one and only option. Much like how EA shut out competition by getting the exclusive rights to the NFL license which I'm sure many folks here didn't like either.

Bottom line is people should be able to choose what devices they want. If people want an alternative to Apple let them have it. If people are still buying your products (especially a large majority) then I'd say you have nothing to worry about as a company. Just keeping making good products and give the people what they want. DON'T be an ass and try to shut out competition in court!

eventhorizon525:

Milanezi:

Atary77:
Hey Apple, maybe you should try something else like oh I don't know try to make a better product that can compete with what Samsung is making as well as maybe trying to be more competitive with your pricing. Ya know? Stuff that companies normally do when they want to win over customers.

Maybe the deal is keeping it overpriced, same reason you'll pay more for an Armani shirt, and no matter what you won't get a cheap Armani (cheap in the sense of price). You're paying for the brand and everything that comes with it. It is illogical, but it's a social thing.
However stepping up to the competition in terms of bringing new features, etc. Well, that can't be argued... Though my father in law has both that latest Galaxy (the pretty one) and iPhone 5, he barely uses the Galaxy, he says he prefers the iPhone, I used his Galaxy a bit, I also prefer the iPhone, BUT it is a real fine phone and though I felt apple was smoother, samsung also had a very nice feel to it. Let's put it this way, I'd pick iPhone any day, but the differences were minimal, and what really links me to iPhone is the iTunes store, because I have tons of movies, tv shows, music and games that i bought on it; also the immediate synch with iPad, iPod, iMac and Apple TV is VERY helpful.

But I have a rant against some people who badmouth Apple products (for this reason only): they say "wow, their stuff is made for retards, it's too easy to use"... WTF??? Isn't that GREAT? The easier the better, I see my grandfather and the way he suffers to put the DVD to work and I ask myself, this shit should be easier. I'm not going against Galaxy here, no, the little I used it was as easy as the iPhone. I'm just ranting here, but hey, things should become easier, EVERYTHING. If the iPhone is too easy than go use morse code or something... geez...

The problem I have with Apple products is that while yes, they do make things easier to approach and have very clean interfaces, they give this at the cost of actually being able to do a lot with them. The system is very closed, and after learning how to actually take advantage of a lot of fiddle bits on my phone and computer, having them effectively removed is not an enjoyable prospect. Combine that with their obnoxious advertising (yes, you managed to make a nice feeling product with a lot of polish (not apple maps), but guess what, all the "new" features that keep getting talk up have been done by other companies, often better, years before) and their very cult? (not right word, can't think of a better one) mentality where only their own stuff is worth ever touching (and is the only option in existence) can be very irritating.

However, I have also recommended Apple computers for people before simply because they are still a good choice for some people (though they need the spare cash for the extra cost).

yes "cult" is the right word.

Milanezi:
snip...

really so your reasoning is that you will run back to apple because you have purchased so much from their draconian controlled system. wasn't this the very issue that got them sued class action style over their "Idevice only DRM" to where you couldn't even put the music on CDs. so really by making the statement that you will choose Apple because you have invested so much money into their Itunes system actually means you are part of the problem where the things that we purchase from a given service are so tied to that service that we don't actually own the things we buy, and can't do anything about it.

great job for complacency.

The patent system needs some tweaking. You shouldn't be able to sue to frivolously just because over these things.

Can't we just ban Apple from courts everywhere? At least for a year?

That'd be good I think.

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

Well, this is what I heard: "Wah! Waahhh!!! They're making better products than me and I'm losing all my customers because my products are inferior and much more expensive! Wah! It's not fair! Waaaahhhhh!!!!!".

I think I can confirm that.

Tiger Sora:
The patent system needs some tweaking. You shouldn't be able to sue to frivolously just because over these things.

Oh I don't know.. you should be able to sue for anything you want.

What we need is some serious Anti-SLAPP type of laws though. So that if a judge deems that your suit was not only unsuccessful, but frivolous, then you can get nailed for like double what you were asking for originally.

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

Only if Samsung counter sues them which they may or may not feel like doing. Of course, its also possible that Apple might have to pay all the legal bills if they lose

Apple's "ecosystem"? Oh for fuck's sake.

So.. consumers = prey, Apple = hunter, Samsung = fire-breathing raptor with machine gun and jetpack?

Meanwhile, Galaxy Note 2 looks more and more sexy by the day.

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

Only if Samsung counter sues them which they may or may not feel like doing. Of course, its also possible that Apple might have to pay all the legal bills if they lose

gardian06:

eventhorizon525:

Milanezi:

Maybe the deal is keeping it overpriced, same reason you'll pay more for an Armani shirt, and no matter what you won't get a cheap Armani (cheap in the sense of price). You're paying for the brand and everything that comes with it. It is illogical, but it's a social thing.
However stepping up to the competition in terms of bringing new features, etc. Well, that can't be argued... Though my father in law has both that latest Galaxy (the pretty one) and iPhone 5, he barely uses the Galaxy, he says he prefers the iPhone, I used his Galaxy a bit, I also prefer the iPhone, BUT it is a real fine phone and though I felt apple was smoother, samsung also had a very nice feel to it. Let's put it this way, I'd pick iPhone any day, but the differences were minimal, and what really links me to iPhone is the iTunes store, because I have tons of movies, tv shows, music and games that i bought on it; also the immediate synch with iPad, iPod, iMac and Apple TV is VERY helpful.

But I have a rant against some people who badmouth Apple products (for this reason only): they say "wow, their stuff is made for retards, it's too easy to use"... WTF??? Isn't that GREAT? The easier the better, I see my grandfather and the way he suffers to put the DVD to work and I ask myself, this shit should be easier. I'm not going against Galaxy here, no, the little I used it was as easy as the iPhone. I'm just ranting here, but hey, things should become easier, EVERYTHING. If the iPhone is too easy than go use morse code or something... geez...

The problem I have with Apple products is that while yes, they do make things easier to approach and have very clean interfaces, they give this at the cost of actually being able to do a lot with them. The system is very closed, and after learning how to actually take advantage of a lot of fiddle bits on my phone and computer, having them effectively removed is not an enjoyable prospect. Combine that with their obnoxious advertising (yes, you managed to make a nice feeling product with a lot of polish (not apple maps), but guess what, all the "new" features that keep getting talk up have been done by other companies, often better, years before) and their very cult? (not right word, can't think of a better one) mentality where only their own stuff is worth ever touching (and is the only option in existence) can be very irritating.

However, I have also recommended Apple computers for people before simply because they are still a good choice for some people (though they need the spare cash for the extra cost).

yes "cult" is the right word.

Milanezi:
snip...

really so your reasoning is that you will run back to apple because you have purchased so much from their draconian controlled system. wasn't this the very issue that got them sued class action style over their "Idevice only DRM" to where you couldn't even put the music on CDs. so really by making the statement that you will choose Apple because you have invested so much money into their Itunes system actually means you are part of the problem where the things that we purchase from a given service are so tied to that service that we don't actually own the things we buy, and can't do anything about it.

great job for complacency.

You're kinda over reacting. I don't download a lot of shows, movies, and music in the "typical" way but if I did I would totally use the playstation store because of its selection and convenience. I would only be able to use it on my playstation stuff but why would I care about that? That includes my ps3 and my vita which is all I would want. In the same way, someone who used the istore would be fine using the Mac they already own and their iphone

Zachary Amaranth:
That doesn't change the outcome, though. Apple isn't (officially) suing over the right to be a monopoly. And a monopoly could be broken another way.

Courts can't make rulings that violate laws though. Apple's demands would violate anti-trust and competition laws, so ruling in their favour was always out of the question.

You really have to wonder what they were thinking when they started this.

Milanezi:
All I know is I like my iPhone, and I want iPhone 6 (not 5S, SIX), to actually improve some shit, so I also want Galaxy to improve some shit, otherwise Apple will EVIDENTLY NOT improve (because Steve died, so why act lik Apple, let's act like MicroSOFT)...

When Jobs was around they did a shitty job too. All he can be atributed with is seeing that people might want a faster booting system, but that's hardly revolutionary. At that time they were also pulling the 'let's slap a hip name and marketing on it, and make people pay more for the same product'.

I can remember the first ipods. Dumb kids paid hundreds of euros for them. Meanwhile I had one from a normal brand for a little over half the price of an ipod, the same storage space, superior earphones and an interface that didn't injure your fingers if you used it often.

Yet, somehow, people just keep buying it.

Doom972:

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

Well, this is what I heard: "Wah! Waahhh!!! They're making better products than me and I'm losing all my customers because my products are inferior and much more expensive! Wah! It's not fair! Waaaahhhhh!!!!!".

I think I can confirm that.

That's right.

What I don't like about this whole thing is that the judge seemed to act like, since the loses were small, Apples lawsuit was in the wrong. The problem is that makes me feel that if Samsung was putting Apple out of business, she would have ruled in Apple's favor.

Even if Apple was being put out of business because of this, they would still be in the wrong. That is how the true and proper business world works:

Competitor makes better product for less, and the other company if it doesn't do something to compete it goes out of business.

I'm glad the judge basically slapped Apple upside the head.

Though, frankly, Apple needs to be slapped upside the head for everything it makes and markets. If I had one wish, it would be that Apple would go out of business and disappear by next week.

Sonic Doctor:

Doom972:

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

Well, this is what I heard: "Wah! Waahhh!!! They're making better products than me and I'm losing all my customers because my products are inferior and much more expensive! Wah! It's not fair! Waaaahhhhh!!!!!".

I think I can confirm that.

That's right.

What I don't like about this whole thing is that the judge seemed to act like, since the loses were small, Apples lawsuit was in the wrong. The problem is that makes me feel that if Samsung was putting Apple out of business, she would have ruled in Apple's favor.

Even if Apple was being put out of business because of this, they would still be in the wrong. That is how the true and proper business world works:

Competitor makes better product for less, and the other company if it doesn't do something to compete it goes out of business.

I'm glad the judge basically slapped Apple upside the head.

Though, frankly, Apple needs to be slapped upside the head for everything it makes and markets. If I had one wish, it would be that Apple would go out of business and disappear by next week.

I agree with every word. In capitalism, even the biggest corporations must be allowed to fall if they can't handle the competition.

so whens that Win8 tablet thingy with akeyboard docl coming out? :)

"Samsung wont wipe [apple] out"

Well yeah, but how is poor lil'apple going to do that to samsung without imposing some arbitrary restriction on them so they can't sell their better products? THAT'S NOT FAIR MAN!

I've loved my galaxy tab 2 and I think samsung is doing so well because they make quality products that are affordable.

So apple is complaining that samsung is too much of a competitor? Maybe try making products that are worth the purchase. Not only that, but their closed platform and refusal to allow sd cards really discourage me from touching their products. No third-party apps without jailbreaking.

Maybe apple could learn from their competitors. If they possibly allowed you to switch out sd cards i might be interested.

NinjaDeathSlap:

Squilookle:
Can someone confirm for me that this is indeed the legal version of someone giving the spoilt brat that is Apple a good whack on the backside and sending them off back to the schoolyard under orders to get along with the other kids?

No, when the British judge (or at least I think it was the British case) Not only told Apple they were full of shit by throwing out their case, but also ordered them to post an apology to Samsung on their website, specifically stating that Samsung had in no way breached Apple copyright, that was what I call giving them a whack on the backside, and it was glorious.

It was even better than that, Apple posted a non apology that actually insulted Samsung and hid it away at the back of their site. The courts demanded they present themselves at court again to explain themselves. They where ordered to take it down and put the apology as the first page people in the UK would see, Apple tried to get the judge to allow them 14 days to make the changes. Apple didn't want to overshadow some product launches with the notice, the judges told them no and gave them 24 hours to make the changes and told them it was unbelievable that one of the biggest tech companies in the world couldn't change their websites so quickly.

They got a whack on the backside then had a tantrum about it, then they got a proper thrashing.

Mr Ink 5000:
so whens that Win8 tablet thingy with akeyboard docl coming out? :)

The Microsoft Surface is out, been out for little while.

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