John Carmack Insists New Consoles Will Run Games at 30fps

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BrotherRool:
I'm a little confused. We can run games at 60 FPS on consoles now right? With some graphics hits and tweaking. I'm pretty sure Dantes Inferno is 60 FPS. So is he saying that the games graphics are going to increase to a point where consoles still can't handle higher frame rates? Are they going to look better enough that it's still worth than over 60 FPS?

EDIT: Accidentally wrote 30 instead of 60. Now corrected

You can run games at 60 FPS on some consoles, but you won't because there is more focus on how the games look rather than the smoothness of play. As such, very few games run on the 360 or PS3 at 60FPS, much like how few games run at 1080p.
As for game graphics are GOING to increase... They already have. Look at the PC, we have graphics that bring dual card rigs to their knees, and each of those cards is many times more powerful than what is in a current gen console. The graphics are already there, its just that consoles might finally be able to utilise them to a bit of a better extent, though they still won't manage to meet today's PC graphics in terms of fidelity.

Some games hit 60FPS every generation, but frame-rates and resolutions drop as graphics get more demanding. The reason PCs maintain 60PS at high resolutions is because their hardware advances with the graphics. Consoles don't.

30FPS is almost always fine. I much prefer 60, but 30 isn't an issue for me. I've met a few people who don't like 60FPS actually.

I'd like to read what he's responding to, cuz without that I just can't tell if he's saying this as a good or bad thing. I just can't seem to figure out what's unfortunate about consoles running games at 30fps.

Well, that's too bad. I kind of liked that guy... one more person that goes on my list of people with their head up their ass over minor points.

Unfortunately i believe him, too. Devs will focus on how many moving scraps of cloth they can fit onto the screen at one time so they can make trailers to show off the graphics, and then lock it at 30FPS with microstuttering making it feel like shit.

We need 60FPS @ 4K for the next generation of consoles to be relevant in 3-4 years, and judging by the way things are going that would be 1/2 their lifespan.

And the issue is... what?

I really, really don't care about the frame rate [being above 30fps], as long as it's consistent. I can't even tell the difference between 30 and 60 anyway.

A consistent frame rate, I think, is better than a high frame rate.

The difference between 30fps and 60fps is, at least for most people, less visual and more tactile. If you've been playing a particular game or even a genre of game for long enough you can feel the difference in the quality of your own control between the two.

Though to be honest, I'm surprised so many people claim they can't tell it visually anyway... maybe it's just an experience thing. I've only been gaming on PC for about 2 and a half years and in that time I went from a very very slow laptop to a relatively beefy desktop, and since then I've been playing older FPSs on lower settings in the high hundreds of frames. By now I can honestly tell if the fast games are only going at 90 fps instead of 120. It obviously can't be a visual difference on a 60Hz monitor but there is a noticeable drop in mouse smoothness and tiny frame jitters that make walking less smooth (not that you'd be able to pick that up with the absurd amount of view bobbing most current PC games have). Anyway I'm rambling again, but my point is: really? PC users make up the biggest platform portion on this site but very few people seem to mind 30fps.

Milanezi:
Many games were made with consoles in mind and turned out great on both PC and consoles, sometimes better in one than the other, but RAGE, oh boy, it worked bad on both of them...

most of games made winth console as primary objective turned out badly on PC. a good example is "Frozen planet extreme condition". the port was so bad it gave you controller tutorials on pc version..... it would tell me to press circle to shoot.

with next gen consoles we will have: FPS locked the same, graphics catching up to CURRENT PC graphics. due to the increase obsession with "Graphics = win" we wont have more content, because graphics will take over all the work. notice that in a lnog series, usually when they make the jump to be more "Graphically attractive" content level drops significantly. they jstu cant make so much content with good graphics, and god forbid they would never sacrifice a shiny riple effect for better gameplay.

Strazdas:

Milanezi:
Many games were made with consoles in mind and turned out great on both PC and consoles, sometimes better in one than the other, but RAGE, oh boy, it worked bad on both of them...

most of games made winth console as primary objective turned out badly on PC. a good example is "Frozen planet extreme condition". the port was so bad it gave you controller tutorials on pc version..... it would tell me to press circle to shoot.

with next gen consoles we will have: FPS locked the same, graphics catching up to CURRENT PC graphics. due to the increase obsession with "Graphics = win" we wont have more content, because graphics will take over all the work. notice that in a lnog series, usually when they make the jump to be more "Graphically attractive" content level drops significantly. they jstu cant make so much content with good graphics, and god forbid they would never sacrifice a shiny riple effect for better gameplay.

Never heard of "frozen whatever", not gonna lie, I'm not a computer wizard, but have nothing against playing games on PC/Mac, it's just that I really prefer the "obviousness" of consoles lol
But more to the point, I do think that graphics are important, but they're not the almighty either. I remember seeing Far Cry 2 as a beautiful game, but never really enjoyed it, everything else was frustrating in my opinion. On the other hand, Braid twisted my mind, I loved that game, as well as Shadow Complex, both were games of "simpler" graphics that just got the "entertainment" part right.
As I said, I'm no wizard, but i dare say that graphics are used as a "measure" to check which platform is stronger, and maybe that's alright, I'm guilty of being all like "WOW! This bastard looks just like a real human being!!!" and then playing anything that will really entertain me, even if it looks "simplistic" (not ugly, which is just cheap and wrong).

Milanezi:

Never heard of "frozen whatever", not gonna lie, I'm not a computer wizard, but have nothing against playing games on PC/Mac, it's just that I really prefer the "obviousness" of consoles lol

SOrry, i did a mistake here, its called Lost Planet: Extreme Condition and it has a lot of cold frozen stages so i mixed it up.
What "obviuosness" you talk about?

Strazdas:

Milanezi:

Never heard of "frozen whatever", not gonna lie, I'm not a computer wizard, but have nothing against playing games on PC/Mac, it's just that I really prefer the "obviousness" of consoles lol

SOrry, i did a mistake here, its called Lost Planet: Extreme Condition and it has a lot of cold frozen stages so i mixed it up.
What "obviuosness" you talk about?

Hahaha That game I do know, but never played. By "obviousness" I mean "stick the disc and play", every time I bought something for the PC I'd spend hours figuring out how far I could push the graphics and other stuff, knowing it could be better made me crazy, and some times I'd even get a game to run at max, but it would get all lagged, and the a freind would say something like "that's because your card is good at this but not at that". In fewer words, the console (and most of the times the iMac) are an enclosed package and you get what you get, it's simpler when you're not into messing with the game's and PC's capabilities ;)

Milanezi:

Strazdas:

Milanezi:

Never heard of "frozen whatever", not gonna lie, I'm not a computer wizard, but have nothing against playing games on PC/Mac, it's just that I really prefer the "obviousness" of consoles lol

SOrry, i did a mistake here, its called Lost Planet: Extreme Condition and it has a lot of cold frozen stages so i mixed it up.
What "obviuosness" you talk about?

Hahaha That game I do know, but never played. By "obviousness" I mean "stick the disc and play", every time I bought something for the PC I'd spend hours figuring out how far I could push the graphics and other stuff, knowing it could be better made me crazy, and some times I'd even get a game to run at max, but it would get all lagged, and the a freind would say something like "that's because your card is good at this but not at that". In fewer words, the console (and most of the times the iMac) are an enclosed package and you get what you get, it's simpler when you're not into messing with the game's and PC's capabilities ;)

that used to be true before. now its put disc in, install, launch game. as for graphic settings, i take care of those in 2 minutes (but that could be because i know my PC capabilities). If your not one of those who buy everything as soon as it comes out, theres no point trying max settings as those are created for people who are mad about pc, so it lags. but even setting it so it doesn't lag for you ends up better than what console can perform. and consoles lag too, i had a very "fun" experience playing prototype on xbox. i liked the game though so i got it for PC.
Frankly i have never had a game that would give me launch errors and have to go search for a "hot fix" and so on, although judging by amount of support forums it happens frequently. I did have a problem with Civ 4, thats a funny story actually. First time installed and everything worked perfectly. second time installed and everything but animations worked (fine, dont need them, kept on playing). third time installed game crashes at launch. manually set the settings to start in windowed mode - everything works flawlessly. fine playing in windowed mode. 4th installment - works like the first. 5th installment - like third. it is as if the game cant make up its mind :D.

Now, to each his own. i hate consoles with a passion, they became obsolete with invention of home PC, but they seem to have a large userbase so i guess some people need them.

Not sure what the big deal is. I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that the original DOOM was as fast-paced as they come, and it was capped to 35 fps.

dyre:
You know, back when my computer had a Pentium 4 processor with 2 gigs ram, I ran games at 30 fps and was happy about it!

Anyway, he's got his opinion and it's his right to express it (and I guess it's the Escapist's right to pick up a random twitter comment and turn it into a story...), but I've gotta say, Rage didn't run too well on PCs either :|

edit: btw, does he really "insist" it? I always figured "insists" means "maintains the same position when pressured," while this is more a case of "claims."

He was upfront about how Rage turned out on PC, most large developers won't fess up to these kinds of problems. This also isn't a "random twitter message" this is a tweet from John Carmack, one of the fathers of modern gaming.

Mygaffer:

dyre:
You know, back when my computer had a Pentium 4 processor with 2 gigs ram, I ran games at 30 fps and was happy about it!

Anyway, he's got his opinion and it's his right to express it (and I guess it's the Escapist's right to pick up a random twitter comment and turn it into a story...), but I've gotta say, Rage didn't run too well on PCs either :|

edit: btw, does he really "insist" it? I always figured "insists" means "maintains the same position when pressured," while this is more a case of "claims."

He was upfront about how Rage turned out on PC, most large developers won't fess up to these kinds of problems. This also isn't a "random twitter message" this is a tweet from John Carmack, one of the fathers of modern gaming.

Well, I'd sure hate to be the "father of modern shooters" if it meant everything I said on twitter got reported in the news...

All the framerate in the world can't fix bland, generic gameplay Mr. Carmack.

dyre:

Mygaffer:

dyre:
You know, back when my computer had a Pentium 4 processor with 2 gigs ram, I ran games at 30 fps and was happy about it!

Anyway, he's got his opinion and it's his right to express it (and I guess it's the Escapist's right to pick up a random twitter comment and turn it into a story...), but I've gotta say, Rage didn't run too well on PCs either :|

edit: btw, does he really "insist" it? I always figured "insists" means "maintains the same position when pressured," while this is more a case of "claims."

He was upfront about how Rage turned out on PC, most large developers won't fess up to these kinds of problems. This also isn't a "random twitter message" this is a tweet from John Carmack, one of the fathers of modern gaming.

Well, I'd sure hate to be the "father of modern shooters" if it meant everything I said on twitter got reported in the news...

I guess its a good thing you are not then.

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