The War Z Controversy Depresses DayZ Creator

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The War Z Controversy Depresses DayZ Creator

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Dean 'Rocket' Hall is waiting until the dust settles before talking about DayZ updates.

The War Z's implosion inspired a lot of chatter, little of which Dean 'Rocket' Hall, creator of zombie Arma 2 mod DayZ, has been able to avoid. In a Reddit thread titled 'in light of the recent events surrounding The War Z, I think it's more important now that Rocket and his team take their time with the standalone', Hall stepped in with a quick statement about how things were going, and what he was up to.

Saying he was depressed about the situation, Hall announced that there would be no updates about DayZ's progress until after everything had gone back to normal. Health issues and personal worries meant that, for his own wellbeing, Rocket ought to keep things quiet for a while.

The full text reads:

I know I have been very quiet lately. So this will be really all I'll say for the moment.

I've been pretty depressed about the whole situation. From a personal standpoint, this whole "saga" of the development made me seriously question if I wanted to be involved in the industry and I gave serious thought to cutting my losses and not being involved in the project.

At my Army Discharge medical this week, they noted I now have high blood pressure. Some things in life just aren't worth worrying about.

I've been getting hammered by a massive amount with requests for information about DayZ release, interviews and my reactions to this and stuff and such - but for my own sanity I retreated and have kept to myself. Right now I'm just at home doing bits and pieces on the DayZ development. The rest of the DayZ team is doing the same.

I realize that I went back on my word about releasing an update, but went back into my shell for a bit last week, and I'll come out when the dust is all settled.

The DayZ standalone had originally been scheduled for launch by end of 2012, but recently Hall said that the date may slip to 2013.

Source: Reddit.

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Fair enough. I know a lot of people would disagree, but a game should not be put out until its right. If he feels he cant work at his best until he feels better, then let the scheduled release date slide right over the horizon. At the end of the day, DayZ is his baby, and he should develop it at whatever pace he feels comfortable with.

thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

imagine i would pull that off.

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

So the Rocket man burned out his fuse on standalone? Shame
From what I understand the full War Z is pretty good but Titov thinks he can get away with holding back most of the content on release ~_~
The backlash has nothing to do with it being a zombie game.

I think Legal acation should be taken against warZ on the grounds of its name So many people have thought that warZ was the DayZ standalone. The name is a blatant attempt at deception and trying to mislead people looking for Dayz.

That's totally understandable. With the similar names and all I wouldn't want to release anywhere near that thing, with the bad taste in everyone's mouths. Being in the Army, then Big Rigs dipshit makes a blatant bandwagon-hopping mockery of his (other) blood, sweat, and tears...I hope his stress goes down soon.

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

Y'see, I think you're wrong. Politely wrong.

I think Rocket is handling this like a gentleman. There was always friction between the only two games in this emerging genre. In short: Rocket is laying low on DayZ updates and info so it does not appear he is capitalising on War Z's implosion.

Hell, I wouldnt want to be in Rockets position, but I have great respect for how and what he is doing.

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

imagine i would pull that off.

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

Yes, because handling it like Sergey Titov did in the War Z side (i.e. banning users en masse for the most infantile of reasons: http://i.imgur.com/rmaZv.jpg ) instead is a great way to appease you no-excuse folk.

I don't think you even realize that Titov has indirectly caused pain to Rocket. You know, like stray bullets? Not that you'd care.

I once found a copy of Sergey Titov's other game, Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing in a bargain bin at Walmart. I spent a total of about five dollars and thirty minutes on that game (including installation and uninstallation) and I still feel like he personally owes me compensation for that, to the tune of at least thirty dollars. Until I get that, I will not purchase any game that he had anything to do with, even in the most periphery manner.

P.S. Thanks

Taking time to get more important things done and staying relaxed and in good health is what we all want for ourselves. Good on him.

Btw, if anything WarZ is more likely to be mistaken for being a game about the scenario presented in the book "World War Z". The film of that book will be quite different, which I don't mind as long as it's a good film.

I'm looking forward to the release of DayZ. Anything that helps the game achieve that and keeps the developers on-track to get us more of that kind of goody is fine by everyone here, right ?

Me55enger:

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

Y'see, I think you're wrong. Politely wrong.

I think Rocket is handling this like a gentleman. There was always friction between the only two games in this emerging genre. In short: Rocket is laying low on DayZ updates and info so it does not appear he is capitalising on War Z's implosion.

Hell, I wouldnt want to be in Rockets position, but I have great respect for how and what he is doing.

please specify why you dont want to be in rockets position.

and no one asked Dean 'Rocket' Hall to sort of white knight on Hammerpoint Interactive.
he doesnt have shit to do with hammerpoint, but that hammerpoint rushed their product out sooner and declared it gold in order to cash in on day z success.

if he tries to come by as a gentlemen, he failed. he seems to be boasting about it, like saying "THAT will not happen with us" even though the DAY Z fanbase already said they are cool with them taking more time to improve their game.

rockets comment was unnecessary.

and dont even tell me that he wants to make sure that his standalone version doesn't create such a fiasko.

the difference is that hammerpoint declared their game gold, that means its ready and playable.
rocket declared it alpha.

look at minecraft.

he(rocket) still can release his game and declare it alpha without imagine features that doesnt exist to lure players into paying for an unfinished game.

giving no comment would had been more gentlemen like.

btw, THE only two games is wrong. google state of decay.

kitetsu:

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

Yes, because handling it like Sergey Titov did in the War Z side (i.e. banning users en masse for the most infantile of reasons: http://i.imgur.com/rmaZv.jpg ) instead is a great way to appease you no-excuse folk.

I don't think you even realize that Titov has indirectly caused pain to Rocket. You know, like stray bullets? Not that you'd care.

The WAR Z =/= DAY Z

what has sergey titov have to do with Dean 'Rocket' Hall?

did rocket, with his game DAY Z said he would be handeling it like Sergey Titov with his game WAR Z. NO?

you dont hear coca cola cry if pepsi fuck things up.

and if Dean 'Rocket' Hall feels hit by the shit hammerpoint steered up themselves by being dicks, than he must be the most sensitive man in the world.
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Airon:

Btw, if anything WarZ is more likely to be mistaken for being a game about the scenario presented in the book "World War Z". The film of that book will be quite different, which I don't mind as long as it's a good film.

the movie the war z(world war Z) has nothing to do with the game the war z.

hell, from the looks of the trailer the movie itself has nothing to do with the book its supposedly based on.

and it is ridiculous that brad pitt in the move is considered competent enough to do something against an apocalyptic infestation.

like he is going to sweet talk germ and viruses into just die and stop killing people.

It's probably a good thing that the Stand Alone is being delayed. More development time means a less bugs and tighter game play. Black Mesa was delayed for 3 years and it turned out amazing. Probably the best Half Life game ever.

Rhizhim, how on earth do you get the impression that Rocket is boasting about anything? He is saying that he is stressed with everything that is going on, something which is completely understandable given the situation. You seem to be taking offence at his comments about the delay: yes it is true that a lot of the community have been understanding and want him to take as much time as he needs, but why are you calling bullshit for him saying so in this statement?

As for you questioning why he made a statement at all (which you consider ungentlemanly), the reason is given in the statement itself. He is being bombarded with people asking about DayZ development, asking him for interviews, and asking what his thoughts are on the WarZ fiasco. He is responding to all those people with this statement, so the comments weren't unnecessary, they were literally requested.

Finally, you ask what he has to do with the WarZ. Isn't it obvious? He is the creator of the mod which most people would agree inspired the WarZ 'rip-off' in the first place, and is the biggest competitor in the same genre. It shouldn't be hard to see why people have been asking him his thoughts on the whole mess.

rhizhim:

If you can't see the potential attempted links between Day Z, WarZ and World War Z there's little hope for you.

The game was greatly unheard of until it released on steam. The name was a 3 letter word with the letter Z on the end of it. A recent mod for Arma 2 was a three letter word with a Z on the end of it that had a massive amount of publicity for being a unique take on the zombie survival experience. Then there's an upcoming blockbuster film called World War Z, in case you haven't noticed it's the same name with the word "World" in front of it.

It is a master-stroke of parasitic marketing in naming conventions but it is also a master-stroke in failing customers and somehow managing to make a developer's already rock-bottom reputation sink further.

As War Z has linked itself to Day Z it unfortunately goes both ways. Consumers will now be cautious about buying another MMO Zombie FPS/TPS Survival game and rather than being a day one purchase they'll wait for reviews, then maybe wait for a Steam sale. Better to batten down the hatches, put more time into development. Use the incredible first day sales of War Z as evidence to your publishers as to what the market wants and how much polish the game will actually need - or suffer the same consequences.

It seems you are incapable of grasping the clear and obvious links between several ZOMBIE SURVIVAL pieces of media. And it's not Dayz or Warz. It's Day Z and War Z.

War Z is most obviously an attempt to shoe-horn in on the success of Day Z. Day Z developers have noticed said attempt and understand there are going to be a lot of disgruntled folks who would have bought their game being a bit more cautious in their decisions.

But go on, link more pictures and youtube videos instead of actually discussing the topic, unless you are incapable in which I apologise.

rhizhim:

Abomination:

rhizhim:

If you can't see the potential attempted links between Day Z, WarZ and World War Z there's little hope for you.

The game was greatly unheard of until it released on steam. The name was a 3 letter word with the letter Z on the end of it. A recent mod for Arma 2 was a three letter word with a Z on the end of it that had a massive amount of publicity for being a unique take on the zombie survival experience. Then there's an upcoming blockbuster film called World War Z, in case you haven't noticed it's the same name with the word "World" in front of it.

It is a master-stroke of parasitic marketing in naming conventions but it is also a master-stroke in failing customers and somehow managing to make a developer's already rock-bottom reputation sink further.

you are trying to be sarcastic, arent you?

please tell me you are joking.

if not:

if yes:

you forgot these

imageimageimage

image

None of those pictures have to do with zombies, but Abomination's examples all have to do with zombies. Do you see the similarities? Its zombies. If you don't understand Abomination's point of view, then I truly pity you.

Ok, is it just me or does anyone else understand anything that's been argued in this thread?
I thought this story was about how a videogame developer was annoyed that another videogame developer stole his concept and used it to make an absurd amount of money with a barely playable mess of a game that will probably sour all the potential customers towards the original which was incredibly similar in name and gameplay.

The guys been pouring years of his time and money into a pet project for an open world zombie survival game, and some hack beats him to it with a terrible clone, no doubt making a huge profit from it. I'd be really bummed too.

Now why is everyone arguing about Ketchup and Adam Sandler quotes?!?!?!

Mythic Falcon:
Rhizhim, how on earth do you get the impression that Rocket is boasting about anything? He is saying that he is stressed with everything that is going on, something which is completely understandable given the situation. You seem to be taking offence at his comments about the delay: yes it is true that a lot of the community have been understanding and want him to take as much time as he needs, but why are you calling bullshit for him saying so in this statement?

As for you questioning why he made a statement at all (which you consider ungentlemanly), the reason is given in the statement itself. He is being bombarded with people asking about DayZ development, asking him for interviews, and asking what his thoughts are on the WarZ fiasco. He is responding to all those people with this statement, so the comments weren't unnecessary, they were literally requested.

Finally, you ask what he has to do with the WarZ. Isn't it obvious? He is the creator of the mod which most people would agree inspired the WarZ 'rip-off' in the first place, and is the biggest competitor in the same genre. It shouldn't be hard to see why people have been asking him his thoughts on the whole mess.

Hdawger:

None of those pictures have to do with zombies, but Abomination's examples all have to do with zombies. Do you see the similarities? Its zombies. If you don't understand Abomination's point of view, then I truly pity you.

okay, time to clarifiy things

Abomination:
It seems you are incapable of grasping the clear and obvious links between several ZOMBIE SURVIVAL pieces of media. And it's not Dayz or Warz. It's Day Z and War Z.

War Z is most obviously an attempt to shoe-horn in on the success of Day Z.

lets look on the response of Abomination

If you can't see the potential attempted links between Day Z, WarZ and World War Z there's little hope for you.

It is a master-stroke of parasitic marketing in naming conventions but it is also a master-stroke in failing customers and somehow [b]managing to make a developer's already rock-bottom reputation sink further.[b]

lets look at the three you pointed out.

World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War is a 2006 post-apocalyptic horror novel by Max Brooks
World War Z (film): Plan B Entertainment secured the film rights in 2007 and it stayed in developement limbo until 2011
DayZ is a 2012 multiplayer open world survival horror mod designed by Dean Hall.
The War Z is an open world zombie survival horror video game developed by Hammerpoint Interactive released in 2012.(allergedly years in developement)

only the War Z MMO is trying to be parasitic.
the links of these tree pieces of media is zombies, survival horror and that they end with the letter z.

but by that logic you should also mention that resident evil, zombiU and Project Zomboid is " a master stroke of parasitic marketing" since these also have zombies in it and are survival horror games.

and i was making fun of his "connection" between the 3 because the names end with a Z
(he also pities me..).

if hammerpoint hits rock bottom even more, its their own damn fault.

----------

why i said his statement seems to be like boasting?

I think Rocket is handling this like a gentleman. There was always friction between the only two games in this emerging genre. In short: Rocket is laying low on DayZ updates and info so it does not appear he is capitalising on War Z's implosion.

because i find that a true gentlemen would just refuse to comment.

and i find that Dean Hall has every right to capitalise on war z implosion since the war z capitalised on Day Zs flaws twisting its capable features until they became a lie.

furthermore dean said that they need more time to develope a standalone version of his game.
and the fanbase said "take your time"

but now he is saying that
"he was depressed about the situation, Hall announced that there would be no updates about DayZ's progress until after everything had gone back to normal."

[h3]and this sounds like a bad excuse.[h3]

rather than to say "we thought we could get a standalone alpha version out on the day we announced, but we need more time"(come clean with the problem) they are now saying "we wont release anything until the fiasko of another game has settled" thus practically saying, " we wont release anything and its hammerpoints fault"

this way, in my opinion, his attempt as being the nice fair guy has backfired since he just put even more pressure on hammerpoint as they already have.

so in short: 2 unfinished games wont get anything because one fucked it up.

and again, dean could had just said "i dont want to comment on whats going on with hammerpoint" and "people, we need more time"

and he should not feel bad because of the bad decisions another man in another company made and has to "eat up" now.

i really hope you understand my statements now.

I interpreted the post in a very understandable and reasonable way. He's questioning the integrity of the video game industry, which he has only recently become a member of. The creation of the War Z was never intended to be anything legitimate or worthwhile. If you don't believe me, look up the aforementioned game Big Rigs or whatever that abomination of a game was titled. It was created by the lead designer of The War Z. Furthermore, The War Z never cropped up until after Day Z became a sensation. It's a blatant cash-grab for what he worked tirelessly to create. Dean Hall is a paradigm for developers, who value actual integrity over money. The recent events have had a strong, negative effect on him as they are showing him that the fledgling game industry is, often times, just a snotty-nosed brat screaming for more attention while shady thugs are gazing down your pockets.
If you don't understand why he's upset, I feel pity for your cognitive abilities. The very existence of The War Z is an insult to both gamers and the video game industry. Now, on the other side of the coin, I do feel that he may be overreacting a bit. I still sympathize with his position, but rip-offs and copycats happen in every medium. The scathing critical response to The War Z would be comforting to me if I were in his position. Nonetheless, he is a kinder-spirited guy. He stands up for actual, respectable values. He's gone to say that he will delay the game if he doesn't feel like it's ready, as he would rather put it off further than to release an unfinished product. Now, tell me, which do you think Sergey Titov would prefer?

Rhizhim... why would you spare someone as infantile as Sergey Titov a chance? Are you seriously suggesting that his recent actions, showing that he hasn't changed much, if at all, since the days of Big Rigs, is perfectly okay compared to Rocket's response?

Seriously, why?

Actually, you know what, I don't want to hear it. I'll just assume that, yes, you're perfectly okay with unprofessional behavior, but not Rocket's boasting, as you put it.

rhizhim:

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

Yep, that's pretty bullshit there.
But, with a little research into the thing, we can come up with a much more viable excuse:

"Someone seems to have, accidentally or otherwise, stolen my idea and re-branded it for profit. He remade or stole it badly, lied about key features, said that people were simply misreading his claims after people called him out on the outright lies, tried to silence vocal dissent on his product and basically acted like a raging jackass.
and this man belongs in the same industry as me.
And, for some reason, this and other things stress me out to the point where the army medical has told me I have high blood pressure."
I think that last line more then any is the important bit. If something is stressing you out to the point where it may be the cause of health problems, it's not bullshit to pull back until it's less stressful. Not to mention that working in the indie game industry, where in general the creator sets their own fluid deadlines and aren't bound by bosses, is different to a job where you are. As in, the job you theoretically would have to be in to have the situation you presented above.

rhizhim:

Abomination:
It seems you are incapable of grasping the clear and obvious links between several ZOMBIE SURVIVAL pieces of media. And it's not Dayz or Warz. It's Day Z and War Z.

War Z is most obviously an attempt to shoe-horn in on the success of Day Z.

lets look on the response of Abomination

If you can't see the potential attempted links between Day Z, WarZ and World War Z there's little hope for you.

It is a master-stroke of parasitic marketing in naming conventions but it is also a master-stroke in failing customers and somehow [b]managing to make a developer's already rock-bottom reputation sink further.[b]

lets look at the three you pointed out.

World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War is a 2006 post-apocalyptic horror novel by Max Brooks
World War Z (film): Plan B Entertainment secured the film rights in 2007 and it stayed in developement limbo until 2011
DayZ is a 2012 multiplayer open world survival horror mod designed by Dean Hall.
The War Z is an open world zombie survival horror video game developed by Hammerpoint Interactive released in 2012.(allergedly years in developement)

only the War Z MMO is trying to be parasitic.
the links of these tree pieces of media is zombies, survival horror and that they end with the letter z.

but by that logic you should also mention that resident evil, zombiU and Project Zomboid is " a master stroke of parasitic marketing" since these also have zombies in it and are survival horror games.

and i was making fun of his "connection" between the 3 because the names end with a Z
(he also pities me..).

It appears you do not understand the concept of parasitic marketing.

War Z had next to NO marketing. But its similarity in name, genre and time of release meant people who were interested in the genre saw it as comparative to Day Z. A hefty portion of War Z's sales were because of Day Z's success.

Day Z creator has seen the incredible flop that War Z, the complete bashing by the gaming public, the title being torn from the Steam library, the countless refunds given... if you screw it up. He has seen what could happen to HIS attempts with Day Z. That wouldn't stress you out?

As for the, Resident Evil, ZombiU and Project Zomboid - yes they have a similar genre but you will also notice their release dates, strikingly different gameplay and their names have very little familiarity with each other. There is a bit of marketing spillover as is the nature of games that share a genre, but it is -nothing- compared to the similarities between War Z and Day Z.

War Z is parasitic, as in it fed off another game, not killing but weakening that game in the marketplace.

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

imagine i would pull that off.

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

War z has the same issues as Day Z does.

So if they release a stand alone game, day z WILL be torn APART.

Why? The game they built it on was made by pros. Not modders. 90% of Day Z wasn't made from scratch. It was already built on a simulation game that already had multiple zombie mods.

So if Day Z DOES become a stand alone, it WILL look like War Z. It will be ugly, it will be buggy, and since its considered a full fledged game it WILL receive official game criticism.

Without the already professional level assets, Day Z will be another garage project that will either:

A) Be another Cortex Command. A broken waste of money.

B) Won't get released.

Unlike a mod a game has much, much higher standards.

Ultratwinkie:

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

imagine i would pull that off.

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

War z has the same issues as Day Z does.

So if they release a stand alone game, day z WILL be torn APART.

Unlike a mod a game has much, much higher standards.

minecraft showed us that you can still release a game and declare it alpha or beta and work on it until it can be declared gold.

the DAYZ playerbase can understand that.

even other games are released in a beta status (firefall) and people understand that if you play a game that is still alpha or beta you have to accept that you will face bugs and other problems with the game and have to wait on planned features.

the debacle with war z is that it was released as a finished game although it is actually in a alpha state.
and they marketised it as a finished game saying "our game isnt a buggy mess, our servers can handle up to 100 people.." etc.

Day z would only be torn apart if they pushed the standalone version out and said that it is "finished".

Abomination:

rhizhim:

Abomination:
It seems you are incapable of grasping the clear and obvious links between several ZOMBIE SURVIVAL pieces of media. And it's not Dayz or Warz. It's Day Z and War Z.

War Z is most obviously an attempt to shoe-horn in on the success of Day Z.

lets look on the response of Abomination

If you can't see the potential attempted links between Day Z, WarZ and World War Z there's little hope for you.

It is a master-stroke of parasitic marketing in naming conventions but it is also a master-stroke in failing customers and somehow [b]managing to make a developer's already rock-bottom reputation sink further.[b]

lets look at the three you pointed out.

World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War is a 2006 post-apocalyptic horror novel by Max Brooks
World War Z (film): Plan B Entertainment secured the film rights in 2007 and it stayed in developement limbo until 2011
DayZ is a 2012 multiplayer open world survival horror mod designed by Dean Hall.
The War Z is an open world zombie survival horror video game developed by Hammerpoint Interactive released in 2012.(allergedly years in developement)

only the War Z MMO is trying to be parasitic.
the links of these tree pieces of media is zombies, survival horror and that they end with the letter z.

It appears you do not understand the concept of parasitic marketing.

War Z had next to NO marketing. But its similarity in name, genre and time of release meant people who were interested in the genre saw it as comparative to Day Z. A hefty portion of War Z's sales were because of Day Z's success.

War Z is parasitic, as in it fed off another game, not killing but weakening that game in the marketplace.

you are just repeating my statement.

i said only THE WAR Z is acting parasitic to DAY Z.
you brought the upcoming MOVIE WORLD WAR Z into it calling it parasitic when it has NO parasitic Marketing to any of the two games.

TAGM:

rhizhim:

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

Yep, that's pretty bullshit there.
But, with a little research into the thing, we can come up with a much more viable excuse:

"Someone seems to have, accidentally or otherwise, stolen my idea and re-branded it for profit. He remade or stole it badly, lied about key features, said that people were simply misreading his claims after people called him out on the outright lies, tried to silence vocal dissent on his product and basically acted like a raging jackass.
and this man belongs in the same industry as me.
And, for some reason, this and other things stress me out to the point where the army medical has told me I have high blood pressure."
I think that last line more then any is the important bit. If something is stressing you out to the point where it may be the cause of health problems, it's not bullshit to pull back until it's less stressful. Not to mention that working in the indie game industry, where in general the creator sets their own fluid deadlines and aren't bound by bosses, is different to a job where you are. As in, the job you theoretically would have to be in to have the situation you presented above.

if he cant handle to work in a industry with people who constantly shaft, outright lie to their customers and steal others ideas constantly(example: Zynga), than i have very bad news for him..

again, he shouldn't had comented on the War z debacle. WHY?

because he is unintentionally steering things up further into chaos.

if he has health issues he should had said "guys i have some health issues that interfere with the developement of the stand alone version of my game. Please be understandable" or "people, we are facing some unexpected problems and we have to announce that we need more time than expected"

this way he would "act as a gentlemen" and be discreet

but now he has (unwittingly) made hammerpoint interactive some sort of scapegoat by shifting the problem to them.

now people will see that they wont see any updates for their game, not because dean and his team need more time or because dean has health issues but because hammerpoint fucked it up to eleven.

and this whole situation will last longer than it should.

kitetsu:
Rhizhim... why would you spare someone as infantile as Sergey Titov a chance? Are you seriously suggesting that his recent actions, showing that he hasn't changed much, if at all, since the days of Big Rigs, is perfectly okay compared to Rocket's response?

Seriously, why?

Actually, you know what, I don't want to hear it. I'll just assume that, yes, you're perfectly okay with unprofessional behavior, but not Rocket's boasting, as you put it.

your coment makes little sense.

my point is not to promote Sergey Titov nor to give him another chance.
i didnt even write any sort of thing that said i would like to give him a chance.(where did you even read this?)

my point is that deans statement now steered up things further and considering that dean wont do shit until it settles, this whole situation will now last longer than it should.

thats my point.

if you find something that says "i want to give sergej a chance" in my posts, please quote and point it out for me.

rhizhim:

Ultratwinkie:

rhizhim:
thats bullshit.

what does the competitor of day z, war z, have to do with day z developement?

its just a stupid excuse to anounce that it may take even more for them to release a standalone version of the game.
even though he asked for more time and the playerbase gave them their blessing.

imagine i would pull that off.

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

War z has the same issues as Day Z does.

So if they release a stand alone game, day z WILL be torn APART.

Unlike a mod a game has much, much higher standards.

minecraft showed us that you can still release a game and declare it alpha or beta and work on it until it can be declared gold.

the DAYZ playerbase can understand that.

even other games are released in a beta status (firefall) and people understand that if you play a game that is still alpha or beta you have to accept that you will face bugs and other problems with the game and have to wait on planned features.

the debacle with war z is that it was released as a finished game although it is actually in a alpha state.
and they marketised it as a finished game saying "our game isnt a buggy mess, our servers can handle up to 100 people.." etc.

Day z would only be torn apart if they pushed the standalone version out and said that it is "finished".

Abomination:

rhizhim:

lets look on the response of Abomination

lets look at the three you pointed out.

World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War is a 2006 post-apocalyptic horror novel by Max Brooks
World War Z (film): Plan B Entertainment secured the film rights in 2007 and it stayed in developement limbo until 2011
DayZ is a 2012 multiplayer open world survival horror mod designed by Dean Hall.
The War Z is an open world zombie survival horror video game developed by Hammerpoint Interactive released in 2012.(allergedly years in developement)

only the War Z MMO is trying to be parasitic.
the links of these tree pieces of media is zombies, survival horror and that they end with the letter z.

It appears you do not understand the concept of parasitic marketing.

War Z had next to NO marketing. But its similarity in name, genre and time of release meant people who were interested in the genre saw it as comparative to Day Z. A hefty portion of War Z's sales were because of Day Z's success.

War Z is parasitic, as in it fed off another game, not killing but weakening that game in the marketplace.

you are just repeating my statement.

i said only THE WAR Z is acting parasitic to DAY Z.
you brought the upcoming MOVIE WORLD WAR Z into it calling it parasitic when it has NO parasitic Marketing to any of the two games.

TAGM:

rhizhim:

"i cant come to work since a employee of our competitor in new zealand broke his shinbone and i can only work if i hear that he feels better or can walk again."

"you're fired!"

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"

Yep, that's pretty bullshit there.
But, with a little research into the thing, we can come up with a much more viable excuse:

"Someone seems to have, accidentally or otherwise, stolen my idea and re-branded it for profit. He remade or stole it badly, lied about key features, said that people were simply misreading his claims after people called him out on the outright lies, tried to silence vocal dissent on his product and basically acted like a raging jackass.
and this man belongs in the same industry as me.
And, for some reason, this and other things stress me out to the point where the army medical has told me I have high blood pressure."
I think that last line more then any is the important bit. If something is stressing you out to the point where it may be the cause of health problems, it's not bullshit to pull back until it's less stressful. Not to mention that working in the indie game industry, where in general the creator sets their own fluid deadlines and aren't bound by bosses, is different to a job where you are. As in, the job you theoretically would have to be in to have the situation you presented above.

if he cant handle to work in a industry with people who constantly shaft, outright lie to their customers and steal others ideas constantly(example: Zynga), than i have very bad news for him..

again, he shouldn't had comented on the War z debacle. WHY?

because he is unintentionally steering things up further into chaos.

if he has health issues he should had said "guys i have some health issues that interfere with the developement of the stand alone version of my game. Please be understandable" or "people, we are facing some unexpected problems and we have to announce that we need more time than expected"

this way he would "act as a gentlemen" and be discreet

but now he has (unwittingly) made hammerpoint interactive some sort of scapegoat by shifting the problem to them.

now people will see that they wont see any updates for their game, not because dean and his team need more time or because dean has health issues but because hammerpoint fucked it up to eleven.

and this whole situation will last longer than it should.

kitetsu:
Rhizhim... why would you spare someone as infantile as Sergey Titov a chance? Are you seriously suggesting that his recent actions, showing that he hasn't changed much, if at all, since the days of Big Rigs, is perfectly okay compared to Rocket's response?

Seriously, why?

Actually, you know what, I don't want to hear it. I'll just assume that, yes, you're perfectly okay with unprofessional behavior, but not Rocket's boasting, as you put it.

your coment makes little sense.

my point is not to promote Sergey Titov nor to give him another chance.
i didnt even write any sort of thing that said i would like to give him a chance.(where did you even read this?)

my point is that deans statement now steered up things further and considering that dean wont do shit until it settles, this whole situation will now last longer than it should.

thats my point.

if you find something that says "i want to give sergej a chance" in my posts, please quote and point it out for me.

Except there is a huge chance it will be an inferior product to the plain mod.

Unlike the Day Z modders, they don't have the money or time to make an ARMA II level game. At best their product will look almost exactly like War Z.

Ugly.
Very basic.
And buggy.

Their mod is a mess. Full of bugs.

And that's just with basic scripts that have existed long before Day Z did. Programming a full game? It will be a mess. A waste of money.

If the Day Z modders were smart, they will stick to the mod until they can handle something of relative ease as scripting.

Minecraft was basic, simple, and achievable in its development. Day Z isn't. Especially when they build it onto a large military simulator.

Its like an engineering student who went to class for an hour wanting to build the space elevator. Its too much for their skill level.

Ultratwinkie:

rhizhim:
snip

Except there is a huge chance it will be an inferior product to the plain mod.

Unlike the Day Z modders, they don't have the money or time to make an ARMA II level game. At best their product will look almost exactly like War Z.

Ugly.
Very basic.
And buggy.

Their mod is a mess. Full of bugs.

And that's just with basic scripts that have existed long before Day Z did. Programming a full game? It will be a mess. A waste of money.

If the Day Z modders were smart, they will stick to the mod until they can handle something of relative ease as scripting.

or just say that they need more time because they still need to learn how to do it/figure things out.

or talk with bohemia interactive, who seemed to be supportive and can help them out.

or even, worst case scenario make a deal with bohemia interactive to get a part of the generated income in return for some of their best programmers and their game engine.

the chance that it will or could be an inferior product is already given when they declare their product in alpha stage.
image

so if anyone would buy a game as an alpha and bitch about it, they would be morons.

look at project zomboid.
you can buy it, its fun, buggy as hell but it is marketised as a game in alpha stage.

and people dont bitch about it. they understand that, what they are playing will get improved due updates and they shouldn't expect to have a error free gaming session.

rhizhim:

Ultratwinkie:

rhizhim:
snip

Except there is a huge chance it will be an inferior product to the plain mod.

Unlike the Day Z modders, they don't have the money or time to make an ARMA II level game. At best their product will look almost exactly like War Z.

Ugly.
Very basic.
And buggy.

Their mod is a mess. Full of bugs.

And that's just with basic scripts that have existed long before Day Z did. Programming a full game? It will be a mess. A waste of money.

If the Day Z modders were smart, they will stick to the mod until they can handle something of relative ease as scripting.

or just say that they need more time because they still need to learn how to do it/figure things out.

or talk with bohemia interactive, who seemed to be supportive and can help them out.

or even, worst case scenario make a deal with bohemia interactive to get a part of the generated income in return for some of their best programmers and their game engine.

the chance that it will or could be an inferior product is already given when they declare their product in alpha stage.
image

so if anyone would buy a game as an alpha and bitch about it, they would be morons.

look at project zomboid.
you can buy it, its fun, buggy as hell but it is marketised as a game in alpha stage.

and people dont bitch about it. they understand that, what they are playing will get improved due updates and they shouldn't expect to have a error free gaming session.

There is no "lets learn" in making games.

You either have the ability, or don't. Using the game as a learning tool for your abilities only means a cobbled together project. A project that will become an incoherent mess later on when nasty bugs come up.

Secondly, why would Bohemia help Day Z? Not their game, not their project.

They would have to carry the entire development because all the modders did was a script and put it on online servers. Not exactly hard when compared to the stuff people normally do to online servers.

Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Project Zomboid all have one thing in common:

The creators knew what they were doing. They knew code.

These guys don't as far as I know. They have a reason to be fearful of a stand alone release. You don't just take a huge idea with no coding experience and say "ill make it."

Because that's how you end up with disasters. Game stages have nothing to do with it.

Unless they bring someone on who has an idea what they are doing, it will fail.

Ultratwinkie:
snip

There is no "lets learn" in making games.

You either have the ability, or don't. Using the game as a learning tool for your abilities only means a cobbled together project. A project that will become an incoherent mess later on when nasty bugs come up.

Secondly, why would Bohemia help Day Z? Not their game, not their project.

They would have to carry the entire development because all the modders did was a script and put it on online servers. Not exactly hard when compared to the stuff people normally do to online servers.

Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Project Zomboid all have one thing in common:

The creators knew what they were doing. They knew code.

These guys don't as far as I know. They have a reason to be fearful of a stand alone release. You don't just take a huge idea with no coding experience and say "ill make it."

Because that's how you end up with disasters. Game stages have nothing to do with it.

Unless they bring someone on who has an idea what they are doing, it will fail.

why bohemia would help them?

because it started as a mod for Arma 2 and just the nearly exploding expanding fanbase and the mostly positive reviews of the mod alone should make bohemia consider to bring the project on their boat.

there are dozens of games that started as a mod and turned into stand alone games:
-Team Fortress (Quake mod)
-Aliens TC (doom mod)
-Defense of the Ancients (warcraft 3 mod)
-Red Orchestra (Unreal Tournament 2004 mod)
-Killing Floor (Unreal Tournament 2004mod)
-Chivalry: Medieval Warfare (Half-Life mod)
-natural selection (Half-Life mod)
-dear esther (Half-Life mod)
http://www.modhof.com/
....
the most popular one is counter strike. (Half-Life mod)

and valve was clever enough to bring the project into their I.P. pool and is still making profits from that decision.
it would be foolish for bohemia for not even try anything to get that I.P.

i listed the stages to clarify how Day Z can easily bypass the desaster that The War Z turned out to be by just releasing a version and declare it alpha instead of finished/gold so the people who purchse it KNOW what they are getting into and what they should expect.

and if they have problems with programming, they should just get someone who knows how to do it.
i am sure some people in their fanbase might be willing to help them out for almost no charge and in return to be featured in the credits (and gain some notoriety).

the whole point of this long and tiresome conversation on this thread(for me at least) is that for me, deans statement is some kind of catch 22

they will continue on their game when it all has settled,
but it wont settle now that one game caused another game to stop.

and again, this whole debacle on hammerpoints side will get more attention and it will take longer to settle down than it should.

rhizhim:

Ultratwinkie:
snip

There is no "lets learn" in making games.

You either have the ability, or don't. Using the game as a learning tool for your abilities only means a cobbled together project. A project that will become an incoherent mess later on when nasty bugs come up.

Secondly, why would Bohemia help Day Z? Not their game, not their project.

They would have to carry the entire development because all the modders did was a script and put it on online servers. Not exactly hard when compared to the stuff people normally do to online servers.

Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Project Zomboid all have one thing in common:

The creators knew what they were doing. They knew code.

These guys don't as far as I know. They have a reason to be fearful of a stand alone release. You don't just take a huge idea with no coding experience and say "ill make it."

Because that's how you end up with disasters. Game stages have nothing to do with it.

Unless they bring someone on who has an idea what they are doing, it will fail.

why bohemia would help them?

because it started as a mod for Arma 2 and just the nearly exploding expanding fanbase and the mostly positive reviews of the mod alone should make bohemia consider to bring the project on their boat.

there are dozens of games that started as a mod and turned into stand alone games:
-Team Fortress
-Aliens TC
-Defense of the Ancients
-Red Orchestra
-Killing Floor
....
the most popular one is counter strike.

and valve was clever enough to bring the project into their I.P. pool and is still making profits from that decision.
it would be foolish for bohemia for not even try anything to get that I.P.

i listed the stages to clarify how Day Z can easily bypass the desaster that The War Z turned out to be by just releasing a version and declare it alpha instead of finished/gold so the people who purchse it KNOW what they are getting into and what they should expect.

and if they have problems with programming, they should just get someone who knows how to do it.
i am sure some people in their fanbase might be willing to help them out for almost no charge and in return to be featured in the credits (and gain some notoriety).

the whole point of this long and tiresome conversation on this thread(for me at least) is that for me, deans statement is some kind of catch 22

they will continue on their game when it all has settled,
but it wont settle now that one game caused another game to stop.

and again, this whole debacle on hammerpoints side will get more attention and it will take longer to settle down than it should.

Did they copyright it? No?

Then why deal with a bunch of modders who lack every resource to make a game?

Bohemia would have to carry the entire project. So why pay for the modders for ideas? Ideas are dime a dozen, and so are mods.

The difference between Counter Strike and Day Z is that Counter strike formed its own IP. Even DOTA formed its own identity as an IP.

Almost completely custom. That's what makes an IP an IP and not just a script mod with a few extra items.

Team Fortress isn't team fortress if its 5 classes with the same weapons and skins as Half Life and using Half Life maps. Its a multiplayer mode at that point.

Day Z is just zombies added to ARMA. No art style, very few custom models, and just pretty much 90% scripting. The same as Oblivion's 28 days later mod. No difference. It stops being an IP and becomes a concept if it cant form its own distinct identity without reusing all the assets of an actual IP.

Day Z is an IP the same way "shooter" is an IP. It isn't, its a concept. Other modders went above and beyond and created their own identity. Day Z did none of that besides create a gameplay concept.

So why should bohemia help the modders or pay them for a concept the modders can't see through? Bohemia are doing 99-100% of the work anyway. Ideas are cheap in the gaming industry, and rarely worth anything. Its like walking up to a developer and saying "make an online zombie game, but give me money for my idea!" You will laughed right out of the building.

You either do it yourself or don't do it at all. Developers only do commissions if they get money up front. Especially when Bohemia is already swamped with work for ARMA III.

And relying on the community is about the worst thing you can do. Community "helpers" often just abandon the project if something comes up (after all, no pay).

if its a programmer, you are surely screwed. Asking community help is a pitfall many indie games fall into.

Okay, after reading this thread I am even more confused.

Could someone please explain to me how DayZ and War Z are connected? I mean, how would the failure of one personally affect the private well-being of the other's main developer?

Monsterfurby:
Okay, after reading this thread I am even more confused.

Could someone please explain to me how DayZ and War Z are connected? I mean, how would the failure of one personally affect the private well-being of the other's main developer?

thats what i am asking myself.
and thats why i am saying it sounds lika a really bad excuse..

sorry for the mess. i'll stop.

Covarr:
I once found a copy of Sergey Titov's other game, Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing in a bargain bin at Walmart. I spent a total of about five dollars and thirty minutes on that game (including installation and uninstallation) and I still feel like he personally owes me compensation for that, to the tune of at least thirty dollars. Until I get that, I will not purchase any game that he had anything to do with, even in the most periphery manner.

P.S. Thanks

What?!!! He was involved in that debacle as well? Who is this guy? The Uwe Boll of videogames?

Ultratwinkie:

rhizhim:

Ultratwinkie:
snip

There is no "lets learn" in making games.

You either have the ability, or don't. Using the game as a learning tool for your abilities only means a cobbled together project. A project that will become an incoherent mess later on when nasty bugs come up.

Secondly, why would Bohemia help Day Z? Not their game, not their project.

They would have to carry the entire development because all the modders did was a script and put it on online servers. Not exactly hard when compared to the stuff people normally do to online servers.

Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Project Zomboid all have one thing in common:

The creators knew what they were doing. They knew code.

These guys don't as far as I know. They have a reason to be fearful of a stand alone release. You don't just take a huge idea with no coding experience and say "ill make it."

Because that's how you end up with disasters. Game stages have nothing to do with it.

Unless they bring someone on who has an idea what they are doing, it will fail.

why bohemia would help them?

because it started as a mod for Arma 2 and just the nearly exploding expanding fanbase and the mostly positive reviews of the mod alone should make bohemia consider to bring the project on their boat.

there are dozens of games that started as a mod and turned into stand alone games:
-Team Fortress
-Aliens TC
-Defense of the Ancients
-Red Orchestra
-Killing Floor
....
the most popular one is counter strike.

and valve was clever enough to bring the project into their I.P. pool and is still making profits from that decision.
it would be foolish for bohemia for not even try anything to get that I.P.

i listed the stages to clarify how Day Z can easily bypass the desaster that The War Z turned out to be by just releasing a version and declare it alpha instead of finished/gold so the people who purchse it KNOW what they are getting into and what they should expect.

and if they have problems with programming, they should just get someone who knows how to do it.
i am sure some people in their fanbase might be willing to help them out for almost no charge and in return to be featured in the credits (and gain some notoriety).

the whole point of this long and tiresome conversation on this thread(for me at least) is that for me, deans statement is some kind of catch 22

they will continue on their game when it all has settled,
but it wont settle now that one game caused another game to stop.

and again, this whole debacle on hammerpoints side will get more attention and it will take longer to settle down than it should.

Did they copyright it? No?

Then why deal with a bunch of modders who lack every resource to make a game?

Bohemia would have to carry the entire project. So why pay for the modders for ideas? Ideas are dime a dozen, and so are mods.

The difference between Counter Strike and Day Z is that Counter strike formed its own IP. Even DOTA formed its own identity as an IP.

Almost completely custom. That's what makes an IP an IP and not just a script mod with a few extra items.

Team Fortress isn't team fortress if its 5 classes with the same weapons and skins as Half Life and using Half Life maps. Its a multiplayer mode at that point.

Day Z is just zombies added to ARMA. No art style, very few custom models, and just pretty much 90% scripting. The same as Oblivion's 28 days later mod. No difference. It stops being an IP and becomes a concept if it cant form its own distinct identity without reusing all the assets of an actual IP.

Day Z is an IP the same way "shooter" is an IP. It isn't, its a concept. Other modders went above and beyond and created their own identity. Day Z did none of that besides create a gameplay concept.

So why should bohemia help the modders or pay them for a concept the modders can't see through? Bohemia are doing 99-100% of the work anyway. Ideas are cheap in the gaming industry, and rarely worth anything. Its like walking up to a developer and saying "make an online zombie game, but give me money for my idea!" You will laughed right out of the building.

You either do it yourself or don't do it at all. Developers only do commissions if they get money up front. Especially when Bohemia is already swamped with work for ARMA III.

And relying on the community is about the worst thing you can do. Community "helpers" often just abandon the project if something comes up (after all, no pay).

if its a programmer, you are surely screwed. Asking community help is a pitfall many indie games fall into.

You do know that Dean Hall is an employee of Bohemia? That he was told by Bohemia to make a stand alone version of the game? That the stand alone version is owned and funded by Bohemia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Hall_(game_designer)#Video_game_industry

He later created DayZ, a zombie survival horror mod for the ArmA 2 tactical shooter game by Bohemia Interactive. Hall briefly left the industry to return to the army before returning for a contract at Bohemia Interactive on ArmA 3. After the success of the mod, Hall started work at Bohemia as an employee in the position of Project Lead of the standalone version of DayZ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DayZ

On August 7, 2012, Dean Hall announced at the game's development blog that the mod was going to be made into its own game, with Bohemia Interactive as the developer, and himself as the project leader.

rhizhim:

if he cant handle to work in a industry with people who constantly shaft, outright lie to their customers and steal others ideas constantly(example: Zynga), than i have very bad news for him..

again, he shouldn't had comented on the War z debacle. WHY?

because he is unintentionally steering things up further into chaos.

if he has health issues he should had said "guys i have some health issues that interfere with the developement of the stand alone version of my game. Please be understandable" or "people, we are facing some unexpected problems and we have to announce that we need more time than expected"

this way he would "act as a gentlemen" and be discreet

but now he has (unwittingly) made hammerpoint interactive some sort of scapegoat by shifting the problem to them.

now people will see that they wont see any updates for their game, not because dean and his team need more time or because dean has health issues but because hammerpoint fucked it up to eleven.

and this whole situation will last longer than it should.

You have a point there - commenting on it does keep it going.
but the thing is, the fans were already bringing it up - this was a comment in response to people asking about War Z. As he said, he was depressed by the whole situation, and it was pretty much being dumped on his doorstep. That, and health issues, and everything else, adds up to a very busy mind.
I'm not saying it wouldn't have been more gentlemanly to just be discreet about it. What I am going to say, though, is that to expect that sort of response from nearly anyone in this situation seems just a touch too far-fetched.
P.S. thanks for putting the main points in bold, but I don't think it's 100% necessary - I'm totally ready to read all of the comment, instead of using the "tldr" cop out. (Thinking about it, it's sort of a pot and kettle situation on that front...)

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