Sony Patents a Way to Sabotage Used Game Market

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I already have little interest in the PS4 due to Sony's prior debacles and their increasingly burdensome policies and procedures attached to the use of their products. Just these past couple of days, a friend of mine could not get a simple bluray player from Sony to operate correctly cause of all the account creation and need to connect to some unknown server that may or may not be available. He took it back and get one from a different vendor which worked instantly. We had been fussing with the Sony player for two days. The other one worked by just plugging it up. If Sony were to actually implement this in their next console, it would only serve to cement my decision to forego purchasing their next console.

Sometimes just cause you can do something doesn't mean you should.

flarty:

Gearhead mk2:
sutpidity.

This made me smile =)

...dammit.

im just wondering with all this stopping second hand games thing how many people only buy these games knowing that they can play them for a few weeks then sell them back and get some money towards their next game. you take away the ability to get rid of games they dont like they might spend some more time working out if the game is worth their money, so no more impulse buys or getting a game you dont think is worth full price but might be worth it for less, the good games might make it through but if a game bombs then a big ad campaign will only get it so far.

You would have thought publishers and devs alike would have figured it out by now. No money from used sales is because they do sod all to get involved.

GameStop provides shelf space, and a system for buying and selling used. GameStop makes money.

Ford provides forecourt space, and a system for buying and selling used. Ford makes money.

Games companies provide sweet FA, and make no money.

See? I just solved your used games issue and I don't take a six figure salary to do it.

You guys totally had it coming.

As mods, and indie fan-games are being Cease-and-Desisted, you shrugged and claimed that they had it coming for infringing on the publisher's Property.

As youtube videos are being taken down for using the wrong BGM, you just shrugged and looked for another link, or reuploaded them, as if copyright hindering our everyday life would be just an inevitable force of nature, because listening to that BGM would take away Sony's Property

As multiple artists are begging on Kickstarter so they can make "spiritual successors" to their old genre-defining classics, you just shrugged and accepted that the original classic brands can't be used themselves, because they are all now EA's "Property".

As people are trying to download old abandoned software, or access any game from Albania, or watch an anime series that was never released outside of Japan, you called them thieves for "taking away the Artist's Property", after all it's their choice whether you are allowed to access it.

Nicolaus99:

So the real question here is the definition of Property Rights and whether your "copy" of X software is in fact your legal property.

Even if that question would have made sense a few decades ago, when every single version of a content existed on a separately printed copy, it doesn't, any more. If you install "your" game on a HDD, you are creating a new copy. If you download a Steam game on a new computer, you are creating a new copy. And if you would truly have a right to make new copies, what would stop you from sharing them with "your friends" on the Internet?

The answer is not to react with the industry's own "You wouldn't steal a car" bullshit, by claiming that "but we CAN resell a car".

Games are not cars. They are data, concepts, designs, ideas floating around in 0s and 1s. Their original creator has a reasonable interest in somehow profiting from them, their paying audience also have an interest in dealing with them, and the general public also has an interest in accessing them (e.g.: Fair Use, Public Domain).

The answer can't be to pretend that one of these interested parties owns it as "Property", or that the player only owns the physical disc that it is written on, but not the data on the disc.

We need to look at what was the original purpose of copyright, and fix it in a way that the original purpose is guaranteed, while we as interested parties will also end up with enough rights. Not because "it's our property", but because it's no one's property, it's something else.

Wait, Sony and Microsoft actually matter on the gaming scene anymore? I haven't bought a game for any system they have produced in a year despite owning a ps3, xbox 360, and Vita. Heck, I just recently stopped automatic renewal of Xbox live since I'm doing nothing on the system. I'm waiting for the various Linux box systems to hit the shelves and hopefully force the stubborn old vanguard to work up a new pricing model or fall into redundancy.

Steam already does this. Any game bought on a disc which requires Steam will be forever locked to one Steam account. Sony just aren't forcing you to register online for your singleplayer game too.

Conclusion. Both companies suck

Entitled:

Nicolaus99:

So the real question here is the definition of Property Rights and whether your "copy" of X software is in fact your legal property.

Even if that question would have made sense a few decades ago, when every single version of a content existed on a separately printed copy, it doesn't, any more. If you install "your" game on a HDD, you are creating a new copy. If you download a Steam game on a new computer, you are creating a new copy. And if you would truly have a right to make new copies, what would stop you from sharing them with "your friends" on the Internet?

The answer is not to react with the industry's own "You wouldn't steal a car" bullshit, by claiming that "but we CAN resell a car".

Games are not cars. They are data, concepts, designs, ideas floating around in 0s and 1s. Their original creator has a reasonable interest in somehow profiting from them, their paying audience also have an interest in dealing with them, and the general public also has an interest in accessing them (e.g.: Fair Use, Public Domain).

The answer can't be to pretend that one of these interested parties owns it as "Property", or that the player only owns the physical disc that it is written on, but not the data on the disc.

We need to look at what was the original purpose of copyright, and fix it in a way that the original purpose is guaranteed, while we as interested parties will also end up with enough rights. Not because "it's our property", but because it's no one's property, it's something else.

US courts currently favor a physical copy (CD, DVD, ect.) as your property under First Sale Doctrine but have declined to extend that right to digital download versions of the same thing. The EU is well ahead of the US on this one in declaring "It makes no difference whether the copy of the computer program was made available by means of a download from the rightholder's website or by means of a material medium such as a CD-ROM or DVD," & "From an economic point of view, the sale of a computer program on CD-ROM or DVD and the sale of a program by downloading from the internet are similar," the court ruled. "The on-line transmission method is the functional equivalent of the supply of a material medium."

Even if we limit ourselves to purely digital goods, that still drags the entire film and music industry along with it. We CAN resell our DVDs and CDs. But what if we purchased the content of those mediums digitally? Can or should the fact that all those 1s and 0s are on either a disc or a hard drive alter our property rights even though they are functionally the exact same thing?

It opens a giant can of IP worms but if the privacy and rights of the individual come out on top, as they should, this will not end well for the corporate empires. They will have to adapt and get over it.

and sony continues to to make the arguments against piracy harder, great job

BrotherRool:
Steam already does this. Any game bought on a disc which requires Steam will be forever locked to one Steam account. Sony just aren't forcing you to register online for your singleplayer game too.

Conclusion. Both companies suck

The difference is that Valve lets you download the game an infinite amount of times from their servers to any computer you own. I can't imagine Sony letting you download it again from their servers, and there I wouldn't be surprised if the game is bound to your console :C

So it pretty much makes a boxed game equivalent to buying it from somewhere like Steam, if they tie it to your account ID. I guess that's not woefully terrible, though it would be a shame to see the used market go away if this were to ever really take off (which i still doubt it will). I just wish the game publishers and such would target places like Gamestop that aren't giving them the profit from a used sale. It's that kind of practice that wouldn't hurt the consumer, and would get these developers the profits they need to deal with the ridiculously high production costs they go and put on themselves.

Here's some issues that will come up with this:

1) If my PS4 breaks, and I have to send it in for a MFG warranty repair/replace (or buy a new one), does this mean that all my games that are encoded to the old system are rendered unusable on a new system?

2) If my power's out, yet I want to play a game that I have and my brother doesn't, I go to his house and yet cannot play the game on his PS4 because my PS4 is encoded to that game? (essentially screwing LAN parties with people's different games/systems).

3) Will there not be a legal battle for those that own these products in saying that they cannot do with what they want? For example, what if I decide 6 months into it that I no longer want to have a PS4. Well, I can sell the system but now I can't do anything with the software, cannot resell it or anything (unless it goes with the system.,..but gamestop won't take it like that, that's for sure).

Eruanno:

BrotherRool:
Steam already does this. Any game bought on a disc which requires Steam will be forever locked to one Steam account. Sony just aren't forcing you to register online for your singleplayer game too.

Conclusion. Both companies suck

The difference is that Valve lets you download the game an infinite amount of times from their servers to any computer you own. I can't imagine Sony letting you download it again from their servers, and there I wouldn't be surprised if the game is bound to your console :C

Sony let you download your PSN games onto multiple PS3s at a time, and it takes a couple of seconds to log onto your account from any console, they say its tied to the account not the PS3, and you still have the disk, so I don't think thats particularly likely.

By contrast Valve makes it awkward to log into a steam account on someone else computer. You need to send and reply to a confirmation email first, if your account is old and your email account has become inactive it's practically impossible

Entitled:
As a PC gamer, I hope this will be used. (Because I would love to see more people come over here, and buy PC games instead of this, so there would be more games designed for the PC.)

This thread.

Just full of console gamers whining about something that has been the status quo for years on the PC.

Color me neutral on the news, though I would get a good laugh out of all the butt hurt that would come from them implementing it.

Dear Sony,
Kindly crawl into a ditch and die.
Kind regards, The Human Race.

I like how the companies within the video game companies seem to think they are fucking special compared to the rest of the free markets and industries in the world.

If I buy a used car , a Ford from another garage that had it traded into them part exchange Ford do not get a cut of that sale. 100% of that sale goes to the garage that sold me the used car.

So fuck you Sony, this is another in a long list of reasons that I won't go into here that I will never buy your console. This is like taking the downside of Steam and slapping it on a console without the advantages.

BrotherRool:

Eruanno:

BrotherRool:
Steam already does this. Any game bought on a disc which requires Steam will be forever locked to one Steam account. Sony just aren't forcing you to register online for your singleplayer game too.

Conclusion. Both companies suck

The difference is that Valve lets you download the game an infinite amount of times from their servers to any computer you own. I can't imagine Sony letting you download it again from their servers, and there I wouldn't be surprised if the game is bound to your console :C

Sony let you download your PSN games onto multiple PS3s at a time, and it takes a couple of seconds to log onto your account from any console, they say its tied to the account not the PS3, and you still have the disk, so I don't think thats particularly likely.

By contrast Valve makes it awkward to log into a steam account on someone else computer. You need to send and reply to a confirmation email first, if your account is old and your email account has become inactive it's practically impossible

Valve don't make you at all, Steam guard is optional and is turned off by default.

Steam ----> settings ---> account tab -----> manage Steam guard account security -----> disable/enable steam guard.

Because Sony has always tread so lightly on the possibility of pissing its consumers off? Pardon me while I laugh out my spleen.

They'll do it, if not now, then soon. And some jolly soul will trot out the "They're a company, they're in business to make money, what do you expect them to do" excuse that seems to be the carte blanche for anything that can be described as a business doing whatever ill they choose.

When they do this, your duty as a consumer is to burn them to the motherfucking ground (metaphorically speaking). No goddamn excuses.

BrotherRool:

By contrast Valve makes it awkward to log into a steam account on someone else computer. You need to send and reply to a confirmation email first, if your account is old and your email account has become inactive it's practically impossible

I put my account on another computer 2 days ago and in less than 5 minutes, with no sweat, tears or frustration. The email was already in my box when I got onto my hotmail and then I just typed in the code and it let me on through without anymore issue.

I can honestly say I appreciate this extra protection feature as it reduces the likelihood of people I piss off in games or forums being able to steal my account. It's come up.

The news pop-up however still pisses me off, hangs up my whole system sometimes...

Hmm, I've got a bad feeling about this. I've got a bad feeling about everything but still. Lucille 2? Thanks for letting me know captcha.

image

Looks like they're trying something out, maybe it works out. But something tells me that it might backfire. Just have to wait and see.

Oh boy! A potential reason to boycott Sony in the not too distant future! Hopefully Sony won't use this with the PS4 or potential new models of PSV. I was just beginning to look favorably upon Sony too for having a bunch of exclusive titles too but if the PS4/PSV-Mini or whatever ends up using such tech I'm just not even going to bother. Then again this kind of thing has been hinted for years and years without it actually coming up yet...hopefully this kind of thing is just going to remain a stick that isn't used but used to threaten.

Edit because more importantly: this isn't stopping me from buying old Genesis or SNES carts so all is still well and good.

Well, I see their point in a way. I got Assassin's Creed 3 second hand and I know they're not seeing any revenue for it but have provided me with 32 hours of entertainment at this point. But I only got it second hand because I couldn't afford the 50 price. Why would I pay 50 when I can pay 32? I may buy a Uplay passport to give them some money, mind.

But on topic, I can see this work, if and only if, they bring down the price of new games quite drastically. If they had sold Assassin's Creed 3 for new, for a reasonable price I would have bought it new. It's not the used game market hurting their income, it's their own overcharging greed.

Entitled:
As a PC gamer, I hope this will be used. (Because I would love to see more people come over here, and buy PC games instead of this, so there would be more games designed for the PC.)

At the risk of going off-topic, it's not like PC gaming doesn't have it's own heinous problems (*cough*Windows8*cough).

OT, though, I won't be buying a console that even restricts used-game sales. Hell, if the steam marketplace does what I think it's going to do, even PC games won't restrict right-of-first-sale. This is disgusting, and I'm not going to put up with it.

...I some days wonder if Sony just hates everyone. In fact all companies in Japan trying to cling to their hatred of anyone outside their little bubble always seem to suffer heavily for it. (Looking at you Sega Japan)

But oh well, if that's the way they wanna play. Let them. Let them make it more and more inaccessible to people. Let them dig their graves.

PC gaming is quickly becoming the poor mans gaming world, and it's glorious. And game developers are starting to realize where the bigger market is (what with all these ports and assurances that their next installment will be PC friendly).

DVS BSTrD:
In Sony-iet Russia, game own you!

Damn you for making me laugh!

OT:
If this technology is implemented I shall have to pass on future Sony Computer Entertainment products.

Having been a loyal customer since around 1996 I must say it's been a while since I've felt the love from good 'ol Sony.
In fact I sometimes get the impression they don't really value me as a customer anymore.

EDIT:

Charli:

PC gaming is quickly becoming the poor mans gaming world, and it's glorious. And game developers are starting to realize where the bigger market is (what with all these ports and assurances that their next installment will be PC friendly).

It really is, isn't it?
I've been playing less and less console for the last 2 years and it's mainly because Steam has oh so many sweet deals.
Also, some of my favorite genres just feel more right on a PC.

uncanny474:

Entitled:
As a PC gamer, I hope this will be used. (Because I would love to see more people come over here, and buy PC games instead of this, so there would be more games designed for the PC.)

At the risk of going off-topic, it's not like PC gaming doesn't have it's own heinous problems (*cough*Windows8*cough).

Windows 8 isn't a problem for pc gaming in the slightest though

What a laugh, Sony has a bad track record when it comes to implementing poorly considered DRM or avoiding pissing off its customers. Anyone remember the trojan they included on music discs they produced in the early 2000's?

If this happens I won't be buying a PS4, plain and simple. As a student I can barely afford used games let alone new ones so this a a big no no for me.

uncanny474:

Entitled:
As a PC gamer, I hope this will be used. (Because I would love to see more people come over here, and buy PC games instead of this, so there would be more games designed for the PC.)

At the risk of going off-topic, it's not like PC gaming doesn't have it's own heinous problems (*cough*Windows8*cough).

The main difference is, that in the end, the PC can't get truly closed. You can always crack it, mod it, pirate it, offer alternatives, publish them without authentication, and generally make your own choices.

On one hand, I would love to see this actually happen because it would be the worst thing that Sony could possibly do, and that would amuse me.
On the other, I don't want them to do this because it is really fucking stupid and really bad.
But since it is Sony, they aren't likely to do it unless Nintendo does it first.

Heh, captcha is: save face
How suiting.

WouldYouKindly:
I always have this to say; WHY THE FUCK SHOULD YOU GET ANYTHING FROM USED SALES?!

If I sell anything else I own, the original creator doesn't expect to get anything at all out of it. I sell my car, that's all my money. I sell my TV, that's all my money. I sell my house, all my money.

In other words, of course you don't get anything from used sales, games industry. No industry does. What makes you so fucking special?

No other industry has to deal with retailers that market used items over new merchandise and undercut new sales.

I've already had to boycott Microsoft consoles due to all 5 I've owned, including my 360 elite, 3 light red-ringing on me and if Sony ever actually incorporates this patent into their systems, I'd immediately due the same to them. It's already BS enough that there is no way to resell or trade digitally downloaded copies of games. All using this tech would do is piss off and alienate currently satisfied paying customers and give pirates and hackers a new challenge to overcome (for all of 10 minutes). Publishers and developers need to stop this crybaby BS about the used game market and just keep it in mind when making their financial decisions. And what Sony is really doing with this patent is holding onto it until another company employs a similar or more oppressive DRM measure to use it so that they only appear to be jumping on the bandwagon and have finger pointing rights to dodge the inevitable blame and outrage. Once a product has been purchased by a consumer, that product belongs to that consumer, period. That includes the right to resell and trade that product for whatever price they deem fit. Why is it the video game market is the only market that can't wrap their minds' around this very simple concept?

The particulars don't matter to me here. Whether they actually patented it or not, whether the technology is viable or not, or whether it'll be in any of their future consoles is moot. The fact that they went this far to develop it sends me a clear message that Sony doesn't care about me as a consumer, but as only the potential fount of ever increasing amounts of money. Instead of seeking ways to increase the value of my purchase and thus encourage me to part with my money directly with them through incentives or a lowering of gaming prices to remain competitive in the industry, they seek ways to LIMIT how and what I PURCHASE. That's an act of war for me.

I won't be buying any further Sony gaming systems or products until they can demonstrate to me that the quality of the PRODUCT is the main selling point for them, and not because I'm somehow obligated to pay large amounts to them because they so "demand" it. And if Microsoft pulls the same stunt, they can expect the same response.

Enough is enough. Companies need to make games, adjust the prices of those games accordingly (Not every newly released title needs be $60 outright), and understand that how and where I acquire my games is as much a personal choice as the games I'm buying to begin with.

Nicolaus99:

Even if we limit ourselves to purely digital goods, that still drags the entire film and music industry along with it. We CAN resell our DVDs and CDs. But what if we purchased the content of those mediums digitally? Can or should the fact that all those 1s and 0s are on either a disc or a hard drive alter our property rights even though they are functionally the exact same thing?

It opens a giant can of IP worms but if the privacy and rights of the individual come out on top, as they should, this will not end well for the corporate empires. They will have to adapt and get over it.

I think we agree about the principles, I just think that calling it "property" is a waste. The digital era itself already opened a can of worms in IP laws, and going along with that faulty analogy will just cause even more grief.

I agree that the rights of the individual should come first, but this applies not just to used sale rights, but I also believe that copyright lenght needs to be shortened, Fair Use needs to be expanded, and trademark laws need to be completely rewritten.

By claiming that a game copy of a game can be our "property", we would just play into the industry's hands by also admitting that the copyright itself can also be their "property", and any liberalization would be like taking bread out of their hands, as opposed to just changing the details of monopoly rights that they got granted.

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