Sony Patents a Way to Sabotage Used Game Market

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At least there will be one positive, it'll end the console wars. It's only a big thing because xbox 360/PS3 are so similar and take up roughly equal chunks of the console market. If PS3 used game sales (which is probably where a massive chunk of the average gamers money goes) are gone then are people going to stick with them? I doubt it.

While you'll still have your die hard PS4 fans they'll just be the new Beta-max fans.

Yeah no, unless it's a cartridge I don't see how you can do this offline and enforcing permanently being online on consoles only for the sake of DRM would not just be shooting yourself in the foot, it's more akin to chopping the whole leg off.

So, unlike the many that have done so already, I'm choosing to not jump the gun and make wild accusations in the process, but to withhold my judgment until after I've heard what Sony has planned for the patents (which hasn't even been made official yet). For all we know, they could be hoping to obtain the patent to prevent other companies from using that sort of technology with malicious intent. I'm not saying that it is their plan, so please don't tell me I'm wrong for my speculations.

God, this reaction to use game purchases is so stupid. What makes video game developers such a special case? Book publishers and authors don't whine about used book sales. DVD companies and film producers don't bitch about used movie sales. Also, is it just me, or is it ironic that this restrictive tech is coming from the producers of the PS2, which is famous for doing well because of having a back catalog of PS1 games that could be played on it? Yeah, I'm sure a lot of those were from PS1 owners who got the latest console and didn't want to have to throw out their old games...but I'll bet there was a significant number of people who chose a PS2 over an Xbox or a Gamecube because they could also buy used PS1 games from Gamestop, Ebay, flea markets and garage/yard sales.

Cool, that's fine with me, just make sure 20 buys a game or you'll never see a penny from me. The only reason I ever buy pre-owned is because new games cost 45 and never come down.

loa:
Yeah no, unless it's a cartridge I don't see how you can do this offline and enforcing permanently being online on consoles only for the sake of DRM would not just be shooting yourself in the foot, it's more akin to chopping the whole leg off.

I guess there will be a write function in the consoles disc drive, so when you insert a new game (which will have a blank ID) for the first time, your console writes your console ID onto it. Without cracking your console, there wouldn't be any possibility of re-writing...is what I speculate will be the case.

Not being concerned about this is like saying that it's fine for countries to pursue nuclear weapons research even though they "promise" not to use it.

Tell you what: we'll accept them developing this if they accept hackers tweaking their machines on the grounds that they "only" use it for homebrew and not piracy or exploiting multiplayer.

oh look another random patent which more than likely wont be used.

but i digress, they know better, they know for a fact that doing this would destroy whats left of there already meger reputation, there marketing department would tell them in much sterner words, no, thats why they have a marketing department. This looks like another case patent hoarding.

If anyone thinks that all consoles wont be doing this within the next ten years they are kidding themselves. All your downloaded games already do this and as retail purchases shrink this will be more and more common. In the end it is for the best. It eliminates a middle man that gets a huge cut of the profits for doing little to nothing. This means prices can match supply and demand more fairly and developers will be able to invest further into their franchises.

I acknowledge that it sucks for consumers that use rental/trade services and even more for people who simply share games with friends. This is simply the future. Buy/trade stores' days are limited. Retail's days are limited. Rental services will adapt into something new. Also publishers don't know it yet but their days our just as limited as record companies.

Game developers also don't take any of the risk of taking in ANY used game by dishing out their money for stores to hold their games.

IF DRM ends up on the next wave of gaming consoles...
I'm out.

So, how many of you are prepared to buy $60 console games without any chance of ever selling them?

Practices like this are why I am slowly transitioning into PC gaming on a laptop. Recently played through Assassin's Creed and didn't even notice a difference in my overall entertainment experience. What I did notice is not having to deal with a ton of firmware updates and waiting for the game to install additional data before I could play it.

04whim:

But on topic, I can see this work, if and only if, they bring down the price of new games quite drastically. If they had sold Assassin's Creed 3 for new, for a reasonable price I would have bought it new. It's not the used game market hurting their income, it's their own overcharging greed.

The Extra Credits guys did something on this once. Basically a game shouldn't be sold as a fully priced unit, instead it would be made up of a cheaper core, with the rest as unlockable extras.

For example take Black Ops 2. It has 3 parts - campaign, zombies, multiplayer.

Most people don't play all 3, they usually only play 1 or 2. So release a game with only a small part unlocked and allow players to pay to unlock the rest of the content already on the disc.

So lets say you sell a disk for $20 that has the first half of the campaign, a 10 game multiplayer demo and a 30 minute zombie trial unlocked. After that you can pay:

$15 for the rest of the campaign (and maybe unlock extra features like the weapon loadout customisation option)
$15 for unlimited multiplayer
$10 for unlimited zombies

Game still costs $60 for the whole package but only if you want it all so it's a better deal for players.

It also has the advantage of the developers getting more money. A physical copy sold in a store means developers only get around 50% (according to EC) as the store gets a cut, so they only get $30 out of each game. If they now sell $20 games and tell players to go buy unlock codes directly from their website they get all of the money from those code sales. So if a player buys all the unlocks the company has got $50 dollars out of the game instead of $30.

They can also use this to reward players, if you unlock all three you get a new bonus mission, a new multiplayer weapon/skin/badge or a new zombie map (maybe let the player choose). Little incentives to encourage a player to pay 'full' price for the game out of choice rather than necessity.

Only problem is it could discourage stores from selling games as they're making less off their cut of the sales, meaning they have to rely on preowned copies, which are now worth less as well as they have to go below a much lower threshold to stop players just buying new and reducing how much of a share they get.

Nicolaus99:
/snip

Entitled:

Movie publishers can sue you if you play music with too many people around, say, in your cafeteria. I think that's on the same level.

Microsoft already patented a Kinect feature that would block too many strangers from watching the same movie together with you.

The other analogies are faulty, since they are governed by property rights, that are quite a lot more clear-cut than IP rights. It is only the copyright industry that is constantly trying to come up with more and more rights for themselves, while also pretending that it's a matter of protecting "artists' property", so liberalization is out of question.

Top EU court upholds right to resell downloaded software - http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/top-eu-court-upholds-right-to-resell-downloaded-software/

There's something outsiders can strongly envy about the EU. Now if only we can force that through the corporate prostitute congress here on the US side of the pond. One more step towards telling those jackals where they can stick their EULA's.

So the real question here is the definition of Property Rights and whether your "copy" of X software is in fact your legal property.

Also whether "right to resell" is a theoretical excercise, and measures like this are technically legal, as they still recognise your right to resell the product - they merely made it physically impossible.
The EU still hasn't forced Digital Download services as Steam and Origin to implement the possibility for resale, so this new tech might not be initially struck down.

They might be forced to disable it if somebody brings it to court, but that's quite a way off.

This is why people do illegal shit to get games. In what way does this benefit people that buy a PS4?

Well I'll just take the money I was going to use for the PS4, and start buying those expensive PS1 classics. Fun fact, Intelligent Qube costs a cool $80 used last I checked.

its properly gonna just replace online pass codes and the like. if it can tell if the game is preowned it will disable the multiplayer, if this is the case its a good thing. people are acting like they know it of fact when it isn't so.

Wow, gee Sony maybe you should call this "The pirate station 4" Because no one is going to legitimately buy games for your system if you go through with this.

This was in the rumor mill for along time people, I've known about for months since some did leak from the inside of Sony. Now that it actually a fact or confirmed that this software/hardware is panted exist, I'm really looking forward to the next gen of gaming.

I have the same problem with this that comes with the code activation. What if I just want to rent the damn game to try it out? See if I like it enough to keep playing the online? But nope. I can't even try out the full game because of these restrictions and now they are saying I can't even try it at all besides a demo that gives me a very small portion of the game? How is this fair?! I hate the way that console gaming is going all together. If they want better sales then they shouldn't make us pay $60 bucks a game and then charge us $40 bucks extra for the full thing with all the DLC they release for games.

Cecilo:
Yes. Wonderful plan. Remove the people who want to play your game on the cheap entirely and make them never play the series at all. Sure this will end well.

It's not even that. Well, it is that, but there is a hell of a lot more.

What the whiny little twats decrying used game sales seem to forget is that not every single game is available for new and/or online. Front Mission 4? When I had finally got around to nabbing it, the game was far from available for new. And even games on the current systems, there are some rarities still.

They want to put in crappy DRM shit into their games and the systems itself? Guess what? They damn well better be putting up every single game they ever release after online for purchase, and might as well do the same for every game they have EVER released. It's only fair. Until then, they can choke on a big fat one.

Nicolaus99:

Top EU court upholds right to resell downloaded software - http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/top-eu-court-upholds-right-to-resell-downloaded-software/

There's something outsiders can strongly envy about the EU. Now if only we can force that through the corporate prostitute congress here on the US side of the pond. One more step towards telling those jackals where they can stick their EULA's.

So the real question here is the definition of Property Rights and whether your "copy" of X software is in fact your legal property.

While that is true it does not mean that companies have to give you the option to resell downloaded software. they can perfectly and legally make it so you cant resell that product.

They can do this with disk based games as well and there is nothing the courts can do about it because its not against any laws.

Baldr:

WouldYouKindly:
I always have this to say; WHY THE FUCK SHOULD YOU GET ANYTHING FROM USED SALES?!

If I sell anything else I own, the original creator doesn't expect to get anything at all out of it. I sell my car, that's all my money. I sell my TV, that's all my money. I sell my house, all my money.

In other words, of course you don't get anything from used sales, games industry. No industry does. What makes you so fucking special?

No other industry has to deal with retailers that market used items over new merchandise and undercut new sales.

The car industry does. Used car lots specifically undercut new sales and I'm pretty sure all the car companies would rather everyone have to buy new cars all the time.

If they want to cripple the used market, then go for a cheaper and more convenient digital distribution service. There's a reason why people use Steam so much, it's just easier than going to a store.

DoveAlexa:

BrotherRool:

By contrast Valve makes it awkward to log into a steam account on someone else computer. You need to send and reply to a confirmation email first, if your account is old and your email account has become inactive it's practically impossible

I put my account on another computer 2 days ago and in less than 5 minutes, with no sweat, tears or frustration. The email was already in my box when I got onto my hotmail and then I just typed in the code and it let me on through without anymore issue.

I can honestly say I appreciate this extra protection feature as it reduces the likelihood of people I piss off in games or forums being able to steal my account. It's come up.

Zipa:

Valve don't make you at all, Steam guard is optional and is turned off by default.

Steam ----> settings ---> account tab -----> manage Steam guard account security -----> disable/enable steam guard.

I was trying to play a game in the same house as my brother that we have, on my laptop instead of the main PC. He never uses Steam his account was ages old, he struggled to remember the password or even what email address he would have used. I don't know why he would have turned steam guard on, he doesn't use steam and Empire is the only game he has on it, maybe there was some pop up that he just clicked yes to?

But that meant we were in danger of only being able to play a game we had a disk to, on one computer forever after. It was an unpleasant experience and so I can't give any favour to Steam for the DRM. At worst Sony's plan will work exactly the same, it locks it to an account, and you just sign in to an account on someones Playstation to play it. It's awful restrictive DRM but at its worst it's still equal to Steam DRM and they should be treated fairly equally. And at least with Sony it's hypothetical, they haven't actually put the system in place yet

Hmm, the future is looking a little too Shadowrun-y to me. Time to grab my detagger.....

this sounds suspiciously like it won't stop the thing it's designed to, and will cause problems for the ones it purportedly accepts.

Just like on computers.

gibboss28:

uncanny474:

Entitled:
As a PC gamer, I hope this will be used. (Because I would love to see more people come over here, and buy PC games instead of this, so there would be more games designed for the PC.)

At the risk of going off-topic, it's not like PC gaming doesn't have it's own heinous problems (*cough*Windows8*cough).

Windows 8 isn't a problem for pc gaming in the slightest though

I just don't see a point in using new windows os two to three years later unless it was on laptop/tablet computer.

WouldYouKindly:

Baldr:

WouldYouKindly:
I always have this to say; WHY THE FUCK SHOULD YOU GET ANYTHING FROM USED SALES?!

If I sell anything else I own, the original creator doesn't expect to get anything at all out of it. I sell my car, that's all my money. I sell my TV, that's all my money. I sell my house, all my money.

In other words, of course you don't get anything from used sales, games industry. No industry does. What makes you so fucking special?

No other industry has to deal with retailers that market used items over new merchandise and undercut new sales.

The car industry does. Used car lots specifically undercut new sales and I'm pretty sure all the car companies would rather everyone have to buy new cars all the time.

If they want to cripple the used market, then go for a cheaper and more convenient digital distribution service. There's a reason why people use Steam so much, it's just easier than going to a store.

No they don't. You don't see Ford, Toyota, or any of the other major car brands putting used cars on the lots out in front. The used cars are usually in the back or in a separate lot.

Wow, just when I thought Sony had run out of ways to make me hate them.

Someone please remind me, why do people give these putrid cocks their money?

captcha: hey brother

Yeah, if Sony is smart, they won't do it. I don't see people getting so pissed about not being able to buy used games. It would be more about the fact that you're stuck with a game for life. I mean, that's fine if the game rocks but what if you get tired of it? Or you just wanna get rid of them for whatever reason? Whether they like it or not, some crappy games are sold merely on that reason alone; they know that if the game sucks, they can always try to get rid of it somehow. But if a gamer knows buying a crappy game means they're stuck with it for life, they'll think twice before taking a risk. I know I would; I'd probably stick with the well-known, triple A games.

I know PC games do kind of the same thing already; they give you a code that you can only use once. That's the reason why Gamestop doesn't sell used PC games. But the way I see it, there are more console games available than PC games. They can't afford to isolate people like that. Not only that, but they would have to sell all games released ever forever. Try finding MGS4 brand new at your local store. Or The Orange Box. Or Assassin's Creed 1. Or Devil May Cry 4.

Personally, while I respect and thank the developers for their work, sometimes I'm forced to get games used. So if they wanna fix that problem, they should take a different approach.

dragongit:
I can see several flaws in this plan.

1)I predict that there is a chance that the system will not be fullproof to begin with. What if there was a glitch in the system, and the console you have suddenly reads that all of your games are unplaybable?

2) what if your console breaks down and you have to get a new one, will the new system be able to recognize all of the games you previously had, if at all?

3) Your basically stabbing the Retail gaming market in the eye. They don't make great sales off of new games, used games keep their stores open, so less retailers may not be so inclinded to hold their products.

4) You cannot garentee the quality of the games. People do not wish to be saddled with something they cannot get rid of. PC gamers get the luxery of their games usually being cheaper to begin with, with rediculous sales on retailers like Steam. Console games are almost always full price, with tax included. no one wants to invest 70 dollars on a lemon,without some form of compensation, even if it's the difference of 15 bucks.

So unless Sony can insure QUALITY games that will never suck, and Consoles that will never break, this is a horrible HORRIBLE idea for them. Even some PC games have limitations to how many times they can be activated, but they have more then just one at times. DRM is really pissing on the gaming industry as a whole.I garentee you that Sony will loose more sales, not to the used market, but to pirates who want a DRM free experience, and convenince.

You actually just reminded me of something important that Sony had happen to them last year.

The major high level hack threat they suffered was big enough to give them a dent not only to their system but to their credibility,userbase trust and not to mention money.

Could you imagine if they suffered another high level attack only this time all the RF tags are literally stolen/replaced with fake identifications or even wiped making their entire game system collapse onto itself if they were to use that patent for their next console that is.

I do strongly agree with what you've said so far but like many of us we hope Sony won't ever have to resort to using this as a means of control since it would end up causing them more trouble than it's entire worth in the first place.

Jesus H. Christ people, patents don't fucking mean anything.

Companies patent crazy shit all the time, but nothing ever comes of it. Until this is actually confirmed as a feature of the PS4, shut the fuck up.

BrotherRool:

DoveAlexa:

BrotherRool:

By contrast Valve makes it awkward to log into a steam account on someone else computer. You need to send and reply to a confirmation email first, if your account is old and your email account has become inactive it's practically impossible

I put my account on another computer 2 days ago and in less than 5 minutes, with no sweat, tears or frustration. The email was already in my box when I got onto my hotmail and then I just typed in the code and it let me on through without anymore issue.

I can honestly say I appreciate this extra protection feature as it reduces the likelihood of people I piss off in games or forums being able to steal my account. It's come up.

Zipa:

Valve don't make you at all, Steam guard is optional and is turned off by default.

Steam ----> settings ---> account tab -----> manage Steam guard account security -----> disable/enable steam guard.

I was trying to play a game in the same house as my brother that we have, on my laptop instead of the main PC. He never uses Steam his account was ages old, he struggled to remember the password or even what email address he would have used. I don't know why he would have turned steam guard on, he doesn't use steam and Empire is the only game he has on it, maybe there was some pop up that he just clicked yes to?

But that meant we were in danger of only being able to play a game we had a disk to, on one computer forever after. It was an unpleasant experience and so I can't give any favour to Steam for the DRM. At worst Sony's plan will work exactly the same, it locks it to an account, and you just sign in to an account on someones Playstation to play it. It's awful restrictive DRM but at its worst it's still equal to Steam DRM and they should be treated fairly equally. And at least with Sony it's hypothetical, they haven't actually put the system in place yet

The difference is Steam actually has a upside to it, things like cheaper games, free voice and text chat (doesn't work cross game without PSN +) ect. Sony are just taking the crap aspects of the idea.

Baldr:

WouldYouKindly:

Baldr:

No other industry has to deal with retailers that market used items over new merchandise and undercut new sales.

The car industry does. Used car lots specifically undercut new sales and I'm pretty sure all the car companies would rather everyone have to buy new cars all the time.

If they want to cripple the used market, then go for a cheaper and more convenient digital distribution service. There's a reason why people use Steam so much, it's just easier than going to a store.

No they don't. You don't see Ford, Toyota, or any of the other major car brands putting used cars on the lots out in front. The used cars are usually in the back or in a separate lot.

That's the big difference? The section isn't right in the front? So what if the store puts what makes them the most money right up front? That doesn't mean the producers of the product deserve to force everyone to buy new.

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