Sony Patents a Way to Sabotage Used Game Market

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Mike Fang:
God, this reaction to use game purchases is so stupid. What makes video game developers such a special case? Book publishers and authors don't whine about used book sales. DVD companies and film producers don't bitch about used movie sales. Also, is it just me, or is it ironic that this restrictive tech is coming from the producers of the PS2, which is famous for doing well because of having a back catalog of PS1 games that could be played on it? Yeah, I'm sure a lot of those were from PS1 owners who got the latest console and didn't want to have to throw out their old games...but I'll bet there was a significant number of people who chose a PS2 over an Xbox or a Gamecube because they could also buy used PS1 games from Gamestop, Ebay, flea markets and garage/yard sales.

Lots of authors hate used book sales. And book publishers. You know how many screeds I've read against reselling books on Amazon and shit? I figure it might be different for the film industry, I don't really know about that.

To be on topic, yeah, this is dumb, but I'm not really surprised to see folks trying to muscle in on used game sales. My beef with this is that it's not a service to anyone, really. If there's gonna be something that's gonna attack used game sales, I'd like to see it help the playerbase and the developers mostly.

I'm fucking sick of the video games industry doing this bullshit. Do they think they're somehow better than every other industry on the face of the goddamn planet?
Do you see cars being locked to 1 user?
TVs?
Laptops?
How about furniture? Do they lock chairs people buy to 1 ass?
No they fucking don't. Our ENTIRE SOCIETY is based on the resale of goods. You buy something, you use it until you get bored with it, and then you sell it. Our world has worked like this for over 2000 years. If a damn roman bought a certain bow and then got stronger, he'd sell it and buy a new one.

Fuck off modern games industry. Bunch of selfish, self-entitled greedy little dipshits who think they deserve millions just because they can click a bunch of buttons on a GUI engine editor. From all the shit i've been hearing about the durango/PS4, i very much doubt i'll be buying the next generation of consoles. I'll save my money for GoG instead, and enjoy games from before the on-disc DLC and $10 online pass generation.

Huh, talk about troubled waters.

I'm not sure I find this sort of thing entirely dastardly, as the article put it. If minimization of risk in new game IP's results in more quality, and less DLC attachment, and perhaps a potential decrease in overall game price (or any combination of the three), I think I could get behind this.

I just think that people don't like being fenced into buying the one expensive copy. People like options. I buy pre-owned games, but I also buy games new when I want to support a developer.

Hrm...this just rubs me the wrong way. Stay tuned for more information.

Falterfire:
I fully support Sony's move to patent this on the grounds that I only have an XBox and a patent means that Microsoft can't use this technology against me.

For those of you who aren't aware, it is possible for a company to lease a patented idea or product to another company. It happens all the time.

TheRookie8:
I just think that people don't like being fenced into buying the one expensive copy. People like options. I buy pre-owned games, but I also buy games new when I want to support a developer.

I'd love to support some developers, but good luck finding new PS2 games in store. Only option is to buy used.

So, how well will that go down in 5 years when you want to buy an older game on a PS4, hmm?

Callate:
When they do this, your duty as a consumer is to burn them to the motherfucking ground (metaphorically speaking).

Not sure 'metaphorically' will work. I was thinking bring the original meaning of 'piracy' back and start dropping the containers with PS4/PS4 games in them off the side of the container ships.
Laugh as they sink.

Cid SilverWing:
Fascism.

Plain and fucking simple.

These companies just do not want to co-operate with their userbases.

While calling it Fascism might be a little extreme, I completely agree with you. Not one other manufacturer complains when their cars, movies, music or any other items are sold second hand, what makes game developers so special? It reminds me of some bratty little kid throwing a tantrum and changing the rules of the game they are losing. I'm done with consoles, time to hook up my PC to my TV.

isnt tieing a game to a perosns account kinda whats done in steam already?

So the real question here is the definition of Property Rights and whether your "copy" of X software is in fact your legal property.

no its not. you have bought a license to play this game for unlimited amount of time. thats lal you have on your shelf.

as long as they themself provide a resale service, you know, something that Steam is planing, it will be fine. otherwise - rot in hell.

TheRookie8:
Huh, talk about troubled waters.

I'm not sure I find this sort of thing entirely dastardly, as the article put it. If minimization of risk in new game IP's results in more quality, and less DLC attachment, and perhaps a potential decrease in overall game price (or any combination of the three), I think I could get behind this.

I just think that people don't like being fenced into buying the one expensive copy. People like options. I buy pre-owned games, but I also buy games new when I want to support a developer.

Hrm...this just rubs me the wrong way. Stay tuned for more information.

your using logic to tell that game will get more quality and decrease in price. publishers dont use logic, they use greed. what you tell is not possible due to existence of publishers.

madster11:
I'm fucking sick of the video games industry doing this bullshit. Do they think they're somehow better than every other industry on the face of the goddamn planet?
Do you see cars being locked to 1 user?
TVs?
Laptops?
How about furniture? Do they lock chairs people buy to 1 ass?

But TVs and furniture and cars will generally last people for years. So their manufacturers get to keep selling them new for years, because that first lot hasn't gone back onto the market yet. But, with games, that shit is consumed and ready to be resold in a matter of days; everything gets played and resold within about a week. So, devs and publishers get that first week's worth of sales, and then their sales drop massively because suddenly the market is full of cheaper used copies of that game.

I'm not saying that what they're doing is right, but please tell me you at least see how used sales can be pretty fucking catastrophic for the games industry in a way that they never could be for those other industries?

Personally, I actually think that cutting down used game sales would be extremely beneficial to the industry as a whole, because publishers would be much more relaxed about funding new IPs, and hopefully slightly less retarded about pushing clones of whatever's popular rather than actually trying to engage with their customers. We might get something fresh from the AAA market!
Unfortunately, publishers currently garrote themselves with completely arse-backwards DRM and anti-piracy practices, rather than approaching the whole thing intelligently. So they're fucked, and the whole industry will slowly stagnate until something shifts.

I think Steam is proof that you can tie games to an account without making it annoying. It can be done! So take a leaf out of Valve's book, you morons.

I like to point out that a device does not have to work or even physically exist to have a Paten filed.

Mycroft Holmes:

Scars Unseen:
This is a pretty blatant violation of first sale doctrine. I'm sure the US courts won't do anything about it because fuck consumer rights, but I imagine it won't fly to well over on the other side of the Atlantic.

No it isn't. Read the EULA some time. You don't buy videogames, you are merely renting them indefinitely for(usually) a one time fee. You can't rent a car and then sell it any more than you can a videogame. This does not however, apply to most old games from the early 90s and before, but anything from the past 10-15 years is not something you technically own.

EULAs aren't laws. First sale doctrine is, and those if that EULA tells you you can't sell the game you bought, it is violating copyright law. Of course high paid lawyers either twist the law or bully those that can't afford lawyers so that the law does not serve its intended purpose, but that does not make it right, and as consumers we should not accept it as so.

Andy of Comix Inc:
I wonder if Sony understands that... that's like one of the only things consoles actually have over PCs? Once the idea of disc-based gaming where a game lives on a disc and can be used like new on whatever console you use it on... once you introduce the idea of installs and User IDs... people are just gonna switch over to Steam for their cheaper games that follow them from their laptop to the desktop to their phones.

Sony! You understand that. Right? You get that you are literally destroying what makes console gaming appealing in the first place? Yes? Hmm?

...okay, just checking.

Agreed!

I'm currently saving money, not for the new playstation or xb360, but a kick-ass pc for a variety of things including gaming via steam and gog, video editing and streaming movies from lovefilm.

someonehairy-ish:

madster11:
I'm fucking sick of the video games industry doing this bullshit. Do they think they're somehow better than every other industry on the face of the goddamn planet?
Do you see cars being locked to 1 user?
TVs?
Laptops?
How about furniture? Do they lock chairs people buy to 1 ass?

But TVs and furniture and cars will generally last people for years. So their manufacturers get to keep selling them new for years, because that first lot hasn't gone back onto the market yet. But, with games, that shit is consumed and ready to be resold in a matter of days; everything gets played and resold within about a week. So, devs and publishers get that first week's worth of sales, and then their sales drop massively because suddenly the market is full of cheaper used copies of that game.

I'm not saying that what they're doing is right, but please tell me you at least see how used sales can be pretty fucking catastrophic for the games industry in a way that they never could be for those other industries?

Personally, I actually think that cutting down used game sales would be extremely beneficial to the industry as a whole, because publishers would be much more relaxed about funding new IPs, and hopefully slightly less retarded about pushing clones of whatever's popular rather than actually trying to engage with their customers. We might get something fresh from the AAA market!
Unfortunately, publishers currently garrote themselves with completely arse-backwards DRM and anti-piracy practices, rather than approaching the whole thing intelligently. So they're fucked, and the whole industry will slowly stagnate until something shifts.

I think Steam is proof that you can tie games to an account without making it annoying. It can be done! So take a leaf out of Valve's book, you morons.

unfortunately once used games sales are gone, then the publishers will whine about steam sales and afforfable gaming will become more difficult. Its also important to stress how in the console market, used games are a big part of new games sales, A huge number of people trade their old games in to be able to afford the new ones.

I'll be watching for news on the PS4. If I hear about this shit showing up on that system, then I'll just stick to Microsoft. If it's on the Durango, I'll skip the new consoles entirely.

This must only ha[[en in the States...because pre-owned games are generally less than five bucks cheaper than their unowned brother. It'll also fuck over mates borrowing games from other mates, which happens a lot with consoles.

So i can newer lend a game to my friend wo owns a different console... So what if it backfires and the ID would be unreadable and all DRM would just be a on way ticket to hell(b-cuz of star force i hawent played many ubisoft games...)?

Vilealbaniandwarf:

someonehairy-ish:
Personally, I actually think that cutting down used game sales would be extremely beneficial to the industry as a whole, because publishers would be much more relaxed about funding new IPs, and hopefully slightly less retarded about pushing clones of whatever's popular rather than actually trying to engage with their customers. We might get something fresh from the AAA market!
Unfortunately, publishers currently garrote themselves with completely arse-backwards DRM and anti-piracy practices, rather than approaching the whole thing intelligently. So they're fucked, and the whole industry will slowly stagnate until something shifts.

I think Steam is proof that you can tie games to an account without making it annoying. It can be done! So take a leaf out of Valve's book, you morons.

unfortunately once used games sales are gone, then the publishers will whine about steam sales and affordable gaming will become more difficult. Its also important to stress how in the console market, used games are a big part of new games sales, A huge number of people trade their old games in to be able to afford the new ones.

Aye, but that's mainly due to the fact that new games are so exorbitantly priced and also that you have to trade them in immediately for it to be worthwhile to do so. Both of those things could conceivably change, but it would need a pretty big shift in the industry.

So it will be like PC but without the sales. I feel bad for my console brethren.

This news makes me so glad that im gonna sit this next round of console wars out.

And so were clear if your account is banned for some reason you lose all your games. yeah crap idea all around

Ok then...

No Wii-U because of the tablet.

No nextbox because of the ever increasing amount of ads on XBL, and the highly likely built in Kinect.

And now probably no PS4 because of this.

Just means I only have to upgrade my PC for next gen. Easy.

Well this is interesting. I hope they do implement this in the PS4 personally, because then the thing would fail catastrophically and Sony (and the industry as a whole by proxy) might fucking learn something finally, i.e. you wont do well if you continually try to fuck over and extort money from your customers.

Actually i really don't care any more, I'm most likely going to skip the next gen of consoles in favour of building a good gaming PC instead.

Zipa:

I can see your point about it being a inconvenience, Steam isnt perfect by any means but it at least does have a upside. Ventrilo/teamspeak are not free though. Someone somewhere is paying to rent the server. And again Steam voice is off by default, its on you to turn it on so its not really annoying. Some games have their own voice chat thats turned on by default (like most call of duty titles but that is nothing to do with Valve.

Okay I'll leave it here. I was shocked to find out that a company like Valve had already put into place anti-used game DRM several years ago and was selling it to other companies and publishers, considering the outrage that the concept alone had caused when discussed in relation to consoles (or heck, charging people who bought the game second hand for multiplayer). I would never have dreamed that a company actually banned used games when we were still talking about the inconvenience of paying 10 for old multiplayer. But you're right that at least Steam does add some features. Sony don't really have their option because ingame chat/voice talk comes with the console or is impossible on the console. If they started touting features with their anti-used game stuff then it would just mean they were removing them from normal consumers.

It is just a patent at the moment, they had a patent for demos that degenerate as you play them and that hasn't happened yet. Hopefully it never will. And when boxed games die out it won't matter that Valve was stopping their resale

I have no doubts that this will be implimented in some way in the future, and that nobody will complain when it does. We as a consumer culture love to pretend we don't have nor deserve customer rights.

We champion Steam and complain about how terrible and awful GameStop is, and Steam is the same thing. The user has almost no rights in cloud computing and we wallow in it like pigs in mud, because we don't care. We refuse to walk outside and talk to a human being at a store and so we give them complete control over every way we consume media.

It won't be long before this technology hits your car or your fridge or anything else. It's already happening in smartphones and printers and we can't stop consuming. Your smartphone's battery is predesigned to just stop working after a year to force you to upgrade. It'll come in some convenient package, like "It helps against car theft", but before you know it, your authentication server goes belly up because the company wants you to buy the new 5 year model.

And we'll thank them for it. "Thank god, I can use my car's onboard computer to purchase gas on the go so I can just roll up to an automated station, fill up and leave".

The idea that consumers have rights, period, is in our rearview mirrors.

Zeldias:

Mike Fang:
God, this reaction to use game purchases is so stupid. What makes video game developers such a special case? Book publishers and authors don't whine about used book sales. DVD companies and film producers don't bitch about used movie sales. Also, is it just me, or is it ironic that this restrictive tech is coming from the producers of the PS2, which is famous for doing well because of having a back catalog of PS1 games that could be played on it? Yeah, I'm sure a lot of those were from PS1 owners who got the latest console and didn't want to have to throw out their old games...but I'll bet there was a significant number of people who chose a PS2 over an Xbox or a Gamecube because they could also buy used PS1 games from Gamestop, Ebay, flea markets and garage/yard sales.

Lots of authors hate used book sales. And book publishers. You know how many screeds I've read against reselling books on Amazon and shit? I figure it might be different for the film industry, I don't really know about that.

To be on topic, yeah, this is dumb, but I'm not really surprised to see folks trying to muscle in on used game sales. My beef with this is that it's not a service to anyone, really. If there's gonna be something that's gonna attack used game sales, I'd like to see it help the playerbase and the developers mostly.

Of course, books and films don't cost 40+ at a time new, and that's at the lower budget end of physical releases.

I give the system two weeks at most before someone has come up with a way to remove that DRM interaction system from the console.

A system which would, by the way, be illegal in most countries, because if they sell you a game, they transfer ownership of the copy. You can't do that and then not transfer the full ownership rights, neither can you hide behind an EULA that says "Fuck you, we're allowed to pull this shit in the US" because the jurisdiction where the purchase takes place, is the one whose consumer law applies.

Oh Sony... Why do you work so hard to make people hate you?

Zeldias:
Lots of authors hate used book sales. And book publishers. You know how many screeds I've read against reselling books on Amazon and shit? I figure it might be different for the film industry, I don't really know about that.

To be on topic, yeah, this is dumb, but I'm not really surprised to see folks trying to muscle in on used game sales. My beef with this is that it's not a service to anyone, really. If there's gonna be something that's gonna attack used game sales, I'd like to see it help the playerbase and the developers mostly.

Okay, alright, if publishers, film/dvd producers and video game manufacturers don't want people reselling or trading in their old books, movies or games, then they need to provide us with an alternative to letting them pile up until we wind up being featured on "Hoarders". They need to create manufacturer buyback programs or at the very least a manufacturer-run recycling program to deal with the piles of old books, dvds, game discs, game cartridges and obsolete consoles that would immediately become worthless outside of sentimental value because you're not supposed to be reselling them. If they don't, it's gonna create either a storage problem for their customers who have to find someplace to shove all their old crap they don't play, watch or read anymore or a waste problem due to the tons of paper, plastic, discs and electronics getting dumped into landfills.

Quaxar:
I like the way how some people seem to sit all day and look through patent applications just to use it to badmouth a company.
Not this article personally, but you know what I mean.

Anyone remember the in-game ad system two years ago? Pharmaceutical companies patent toxic chemicals every day, that doesn't mean they'll release it in our drinking supply.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Now people are gonna bitch about something Sony WON'T do because they'd obviously lose all their sale to x box.

"Hur durr, these companies is so stupid to do this and I'm so much smarter than them"

Little Gray:

Nicolaus99:

Top EU court upholds right to resell downloaded software - http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/top-eu-court-upholds-right-to-resell-downloaded-software/

There's something outsiders can strongly envy about the EU. Now if only we can force that through the corporate prostitute congress here on the US side of the pond. One more step towards telling those jackals where they can stick their EULA's.

So the real question here is the definition of Property Rights and whether your "copy" of X software is in fact your legal property.

While that is true it does not mean that companies have to give you the option to resell downloaded software. they can perfectly and legally make it so you cant resell that product.

They can do this with disk based games as well and there is nothing the courts can do about it because its not against any laws.

Mm. It is all still new and the jagged edge of law in progress. It is only a matter of time, likely short at that, before "making it impossible to sell" is challenged on the same grounds. Something to look forward to.

Scars Unseen:
This is a pretty blatant violation of first sale doctrine. I'm sure the US courts won't do anything about it because fuck consumer rights, but I imagine it won't fly to well over on the other side of the Atlantic.

Actually you can still sell your game, it's just a useless disc now.

Eh, PC's lost used games a decade ago. Consoles will be fine.

I almost want to see Sony do it. I want to think it would generate enough public outrage that it would either ruin them outright, or at least hurt them enough to realize just how much they have been pissing on with their customer base over the last 3-5 years.

However... it will happen, and the result is, Nothing.

Apathetic gamers will gladly reward Sony for undercutting first sale doctrine with cash hand over fist knowing full well that it will just encourage Sony to do something even more wrongly insane, and begging for even more rights to be subverted and less consumer protection for themselves.

I may not have lost all my faith in gaming yet, but I think I am just about tapped out on having faith in gamers.

Another reason to add on my list of ways sony tries to screw consumers. I do like both the ps1, 2 and 3 but Sony themselves don't give a damn about fans/consumers etc.

Vilealbaniandwarf:

I'm currently saving money, not for the new playstation or xb360, but a kick-ass pc for a variety of things including gaming via steam and gog, video editing and streaming movies from lovefilm.

I'm also saving up for a new computer for gaming, not looking for some beast of a machine, just one good enough to play games fluently on decent setting for the next few years until I can afford a much better one. I currently got 140 and I also know a few other people who are also saving up or recently got one.

dear sony, just because there is a used copy doesn't mean im going to buy it. infact i usually will splurge and pay that extra fiver to know that my game will be scratch free, and still have all the codes and manual etc. the only person your going to hurt by sabotaging used games is yourself, having cheaper alternatives will make it seem more accessible and appealing to people with less money.

if this is integrated into sonys next console, the wiiu will probz be my next console of choice. (i doubt i will want a next gen xbox either because it will probably have their stupid camera built in, and they'll probably continue to charge for xbox live as well since everyone seems so thrilled to be paying for services that they need to pay a subscription to use on their console that they payed for, over their internet that they pay for while microsoft SELLS ADS ON YOUR DASHBOARD.

i mean holy crap, iv'e heard of double dipping, but xbox live is such a scam its rediculous

I signed back into my Escapist account for this (haven't felt the need to in at least a year).

While I haven't read all 5 pages of comments, none of them seem to say the benefit of this product.

Yes, it can be used to eliminate the used games market. But you know what it can also do? It can be used to counter the USB hacking system that plagued the PS3 by embedding a serial key into each game and linking it to systems. If working properly (huge if, but they have time to run through the bugs) it would only prevent the use of the same game on multiple systems at the same time. Although, there is the complicated issue of having a friend bring their game to your house to play with you, but that would be a timeline issue on their software (maybe a "force eject" for the CD key could do that?).

That is probably where this is going, not destroying used games.

The optimist in me would like to think that this system could be used to streamline the distribution of DLC does and the like. The console would be able to tell if the game is brand new or if has been used before, and through that it can generate a code for the extra DLC that new games come with (pre-order bonuses and such), or the online pass that some companies do if the game is used.

Of course, that's being extremely optimistic. But I highly doubt they would implement this system to combat used games. There's stupid and suicidal, and while Sony may be stupid sometimes (incredibly stupid), they are not suicidal.

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