Portal Creator Sees End to Industry Sexism in 20 Years

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Zachery Gaskins:

Legion:
It's kind of sad but from my personal experience almost all of the sexism in regards to video games has come from women not men, anonymous internet not included. I only know of one woman (in my life at the moment) who does not think gaming is one of those "Sad things grown men do that are meant for little boys."

This is likely a chicken or the egg fallacy.

Care to actually make a point? You know, something to discuss.

Legion:

Zachery Gaskins:

Legion:
It's kind of sad but from my personal experience almost all of the sexism in regards to video games has come from women not men, anonymous internet not included. I only know of one woman (in my life at the moment) who does not think gaming is one of those "Sad things grown men do that are meant for little boys."

This is likely a chicken or the egg fallacy.

Care to actually make a point? You know, something to discuss.

It sounds like you are implying that men are just acting that way out of spite for women belittling their hobby, which is ridiculous. "If I'm supposed to be a little boy then that's how I'm going to act!"

...or, we could all try and act like rational, mature individuals (female critics included, in your reported cases).

Zachery Gaskins:

Legion:

Zachery Gaskins:

This is likely a chicken or the egg fallacy.

Care to actually make a point? You know, something to discuss.

It sounds like you are implying that men are just acting that way out of spite for women belittling their hobby, which is ridiculous. "If I'm supposed to be a little boy then that's how I'm going to act!"

...or, we could all try and act like rational, mature individuals (female critics included, in your reported cases).

That wasn't what I meant at all.

I meant that a lot of assumptions about sexism in gaming is that the sexism comes from guys. That it's all about guys not wanting girls in the gaming industry, and that a lot of girls would be interested, but are uncomfortable due to the behaviour of some guys.

I am saying that in my experience it's the girls who are more derisive of gaming, that I imagine most girls (in my area at least) would probably feel more uncomfortable about showing interest in gaming due to how other women would react rather than guys treating them like they shouldn't enjoy it.

I wasn't making the point that this is a widespread issue and is more of one than sexist guys. Just that I find it kind of sad that in my area at least, it seems to be the case.

Yup... I don't really know. Towards the point of "being afraid of saying what you think" there will always be people that just rage against someone else for saying something, especially over the internet. But as of the point of I "hope that there's a little girl out there" being a bit literal, no kid really thinks of the people that make the games, and those people interested in the industry do usually know that there's men and women working making games.

Zachery Gaskins:
It needs to go the same way that rampant racism/homophobia are heading, in that they are stigmatized rather than tolerated (if not condoned). And yes, it needs to start with young people who aren't being brainwashed by their parents.

It's obviously better to be brainwashed by homosexual lobbying groups than your own parents: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

Women/girls aren't interested in game development as much as men. How the HELL is that "sexism"? Can someone please explain, or is this Kim Swift being delusional?

Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

To truly reinforce my point, look up the Norwegian Gender Equality Paradox. After looking it up, tell me with a straight face that women aren't interested in engineering/construction because of "sexism", and men aren't interested in becoming health nurses due to "sexism".

They are free to choose their profession, and nobody needs to roll out a red carpet for them and offer cookies & milk with gentle reassurances that everything will be alright just because their gender in general isn't interested in the profession.

Kim Swift is making it sound like women are weak and need help choosing their profession - no they don't, they're adults and can decide for themselves.

Aaron Sylvester:
Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

It isn't THAT the genders tend to sway towards certain professions, it's WHY they tend to sway that is the issue. If it was simply a matter of that something physically about gender prevents an activity from being performed effectively despite any attempt by the person to overcome the deficiency, that'd be one thing.

When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Yes! And more female gaming commentators! Seriously, if someone knows a funny, witty and interesting gamer chick on youtube, please, I have only dudes in my sub-box.

Zachery Gaskins:

Aaron Sylvester:
Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

It isn't THAT the genders tend to sway towards certain professions, it's WHY they tend to sway that is the issue. If it was simply a matter of that something physically about gender prevents an activity from being performed effectively despite any attempt by the person to overcome the deficiency, that'd be one thing.

When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Yup, we should all go the way of Sweden, where cars aren't allowed in schools as play things because boys prefer them, teachers aren't allowed to use words like 'he' and 'she', and you can sue a toy company for showing a girl playing with a doll on a toy add. I can't wait!

Mcoffey:
It sucks that she estimates 20 years. It sucks even more that she's probably right. You only need to look at the Sarkesian backlash (Your opinion of her and her work is irrelevant; the reception it garnered was pathetic and undeserving of the content) to see how right she is.

DVS BSTrD:
Like how we elected Barak Obama and now there's no racism in politics?
LoL nope

You mean soon men will be allowed to be the useless, scantily clad "moral compass" NPC support characters? FREE AT LAST!

Not if XBox Live still exists.

I'm not sure what you mean? She says it's not going to be an overnight thing. As far as politics go, I wouldn't be surprised after eight years under a black president, that people aren't going to play the race card quite so fervently the next time a black person runs for office, or the next, and so on to the point where people are no longer surprised or outraged and the idea of black presidents and politicians is a common thing. We'r talking decades here, but it's gonna happen.

Wasn't quite sure what I was going for there myself for a while. Thing is I don't see an end to sexism in the videogames industry any more than I see an end to sexism in any other industry. Sure it won't be as overt or severe, but it's gunna be there as long as their are genders.

Zachery Gaskins:
When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Please tell me where they're told "because reasons". If a girl said she wanted to be a game developer and the university told her "sorry you're not allowed in this C Programming class", "sorry no entrance to girls in this 3D Design class...because reasons", "sorry this game design school doesn't allow girls", THEN you would have a goddamn point. Show me evidence of this kind of shit happening all over the place, THEN you would have a point.

But when a girl says "I want to become a dentist!" who the hell is anyone to tell her she should pursue game design instead? Game design doesn't attract her interest, and that's the end of that!

The reason as to WHY genders sway towards certain professions is deep in the realms of science & research, not political debates about whether it's sexism or not. Men are men, women are women, there ARE differences. Let the scientists figure those differences out fair n' square. The world goes on regardless of which gender is or isn't interested in X or Y profession, and so far the world has done pretty darn well looking at how far we've come.

I will admit that the founders of game design and gaming as a whole were primarily male, so obviously gaming became a male thing and as a result most game designers ended up being male. That's how it turned out, you can't change the past. But more women ARE getting interested in gaming & game design, which is great. Except for the way some people harp on about it, making it sound like some sort of epidemic that not enough women are into game design? It's like complaining that not enough men are midwives. They are perfectly capable of doing it right? So please, none of this sexism talk.

I don't really care about gender ratios as much as I care about having good GAMES, and 2012 has been an awesome year for gaming. Who gives a shit what gender the developers were? Do we care what RACE they were? Of course not, so why gender?

I believe Kim Swift was talking about there being more female DESIGNERS rather than a prevalence of completely gender neutral games.

As usual the idea of trying to make a workforce as close to a 50/50 split between genders is foolish and moronic. There are social factors and consumer trends. At the moment it is more likely for there to be big-name male designers because designers are also gamers. The gender of the majority of people who will pick up a AAA title are male.

This isn't like more females becoming doctors - doctors are exposed to females just as much, if not more so, than men. The consumer base is completely equal so there will be an eventual wax and wane between gender majority in the profession. Video games do NOT have the same consumer base statistics. Sure there are more girl 'gamers' out there but proportion of sales of individual titles still heavily weigh on the male demographic.

I just hope there aren't going to be any affirmative action "incentives" to get females into the gaming industry. I can not stand affirmative action.

CardinalPiggles:
Exactly right, stand up and be a role model if you want to change things, instead of complaining about them from behind your computer.

I hope things go well for her.

right.....

so that last game you didn't like, should you go become a game developer and make one better? should you invade the warehouses, wallmarts, and gamestops where its store and bomb them with self made explosives! do somthing about it rather thna complain behined a omptuer screen!

Aaron Sylvester:

Zachery Gaskins:
When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Please tell me where they're told "because reasons". If a girl said she wanted to be a game developer and the university told her "sorry you're not allowed in this C Programming class", "sorry no entrance to girls in this 3D Design class...because reasons", "sorry this game design school doesn't allow girls", THEN you would have a goddamn point. Show me evidence of this kind of shit happening all over the place, THEN you would have a point.

Ask any female gamer if they've ever experienced harassment solely because of their physical sex and the answer is yes. When someone is being belittled and sometimes straight up laughed at by her peers for simply being into games do you think it's a good incentive to actually get into making them?

Especially when this is what they find when they take a deeper look into the industry:
http://www.gamefront.com/sexism-in-gaming-5-reasons-its-a-thing/

Aaron Sylvester:
But when a girl says "I want to become a dentist!" who the hell is anyone to tell her she should pursue game design instead? Game design doesn't attract her interest, and that's the end of that!

She might be interested as hell but it's a huge deal to subject yourself to things like this just trying to get into the industry:
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/12/tedxwomen-talk-on-sexist-harassment-cyber-mobs/

Aaron Sylvester:
The reason as to WHY genders sway towards certain professions is deep in the realms of science & research, not political debates about whether it's sexism or not. Men are men, women are women, there ARE differences. Let the scientists figure those differences out fair n' square. The world goes on regardless of which gender is or isn't interested in X or Y profession, and so far the world has done pretty darn well looking at how far we've come.

The human gender is an immensely complex and fluid thing, just like sexuality, and you can't simply divide people into two groups and call it quits. Physical sex is another thing, but that has little to do with what's happening in your brain. Ask any trans* person. This is not the issue we're debating so I won't get further into it.

Aaron Sylvester:
I will admit that the founders of game design and gaming as a whole were primarily male, so obviously gaming became a male thing and as a result most game designers ended up being male. That's how it turned out, you can't change the past. But more women ARE getting interested in gaming & game design, which is great. Except for the way some people harp on about it, making it sound like some sort of epidemic that not enough women are into game design? It's like complaining that not enough men are midwives. They are perfectly capable of doing it right? So please, none of this sexism talk.

I've said it before but I'll say it again and I'll give you a personal anecdote that should emphasize my point; women aren't interested in the video games because the community treats them like crap. Funny story, the first time I ever opened my mouth in tf2 and told my team to shut the f up about something completely irrelevant and defend the effing intelligence because I was a lone engineer fighting off uber heavies by myself I got cat-called by all my team mates who couldn't believe there was a GIRL in the game with them. That was way before the game was made ftp and no it wasn't on Xbox Live btw.

Aaron Sylvester:
I don't really care about gender ratios as much as I care about having good GAMES, and 2012 has been an awesome year for gaming. Who gives a shit what gender the developers were? Do we care what RACE they were? Of course not, so why gender?

I care, because every woman making games and representing the industry (hopefully) means less of this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/jun/14/women-sexism-games-sarkeesian-tyler

DVS BSTrD:

I'm not sure what you mean? She says it's not going to be an overnight thing. As far as politics go, I wouldn't be surprised after eight years under a black president, that people aren't going to play the race card quite so fervently the next time a black person runs for office, or the next, and so on to the point where people are no longer surprised or outraged and the idea of black presidents and politicians is a common thing. We'r talking decades here, but it's gonna happen.

Wasn't quite sure what I was going for there myself for a while. Thing is I don't see an end to sexism in the videogames industry any more than I see an end to sexism in any other industry. Sure it won't be as overt or severe, but it's gunna be there as long as their are genders.[/quote]

Oh yeah, sexism as a whole certainly isnt going anywhere. It will most likely however, not be nearly so rampant, to point, I'd like to believe, that acting sexist will seem strange and ignorant to everyone else.

Vault101:

CardinalPiggles:
Exactly right, stand up and be a role model if you want to change things and have the power to do so, instead of complaining about them from behind your computer.

I hope things go well for her.

right.....

so that last game you didn't like, should you go become a game developer and make one better? should you invade the warehouses, wallmarts, and gamestops where its store and bomb them with self made explosives! do somthing about it rather thna complain behined a omptuer screen!

That escalated quickly O_O

I should have worded that a little better to be fair.

'stand up and be a role model if you want to change things and have the power to do so'

And for the record I give my opinions of games -good and bad- where it is appropriate, not just complain about the ones I don't like senselessly.

Also, here listen to this...

Neronium:
Hopefully her prediction will come true. I think that one way to help with her goal is to smack Team Ninja upside the head because out of all the companies I've seen they are the worst when it comes to sexism. Honestly I'm still predicting that their next game with having breast with arms and legs that fight each other.

How about not smacking anyone? Make games you like, leave the games others like alone.

Neronium:
Hopefully her prediction will come true. I think that one way to help with her goal is to smack Team Ninja upside the head because out of all the companies I've seen they are the worst when it comes to sexism. Honestly I'm still predicting that their next game with having breast with arms and legs that fight each other.

I'm going to use your post because it's a good springboard. Sexism is too deeply rooted in Japanese culture at large for this prediction to come true within 50 years let alone 20, but in Europe and the US I think 20 is a bit much. We've gotten very close to the point where sexism is a shocking rarity instead of any kind of norm, and people who grew up in the 50's (with Mom apron-bound in the kitchen) are still alive and even striving towards equality themselves. Sexism and even racism aren't dead yet, it's true, but today we consider them to be abhorrent and wrong. I'm convinced that forcing dev teams into the public eye will move them into the realm where sexism is outed and stamped out. Games are becoming more and more like movies, let's make devs stars.

A sexual fantasy (weird or not) =/= sexism.

Aaron Sylvester:
Women/girls aren't interested in game development as much as men. How the HELL is that "sexism"? Can someone please explain, or is this Kim Swift being delusional?

Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

To truly reinforce my point, look up the Norwegian Gender Equality Paradox. After looking it up, tell me with a straight face that women aren't interested in engineering/construction because of "sexism", and men aren't interested in becoming health nurses due to "sexism".

They are free to choose their profession, and nobody needs to roll out a red carpet for them and offer cookies & milk with gentle reassurances that everything will be alright just because their gender in general isn't interested in the profession.

Kim Swift is making it sound like women are weak and need help choosing their profession - no they don't, they're adults and can decide for themselves.

You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions in this argument here, the biggest of which is the idea that societal gender roles come about because of the differences between the genders, and nothing else.

I like this approach to combating prejudice. The best way to prove people wrong is with actions, not words.

Well, until women start taking the time and effort to earn degrees in programming, computer science, game design, animation etc. en masse there will be no change because they won't be in any position to have input on things that would result in change.

And I don't see that happening anytime soon. You're lucky if you get 3 or 4 females in a class of 300-500 students for those kinds of majors, and then maybe 2 of those will actually graduate.

Paragon Fury:
Well, until women start taking the time and effort to earn degrees in programming, computer science, game design, animation etc. en masse there will be no change because they won't be in any position to have input on things that would result in change.

And I don't see that happening anytime soon. You're lucky if you get 3 or 4 females in a class of 300-500 students for those kinds of majors, and then maybe 2 of those will actually graduate.

That's very much the real issue. As much as I don't have a problem with Ms. Swift's ideas, I don't think that the rally cry of 'Be visible. Be outspoken. Be strong. etc' will actually manifest in more (statistically meaningful, anecdotal cases are a clear possibility obviously) women pursuing computer science degrees. The rates of women going for these degrees have been constantly decreasing since the 80s and seem to be continuing along that trend. Yet statistically speaking women have been using information technology, particularly social media, at rates of consumption equal to or greater than men. In order to change the 'degree trend' there probably needs to be some shifts in education directed at women or changes in early childhood development. Of course, this is an endemic example of the larger trend in university degree breakdowns, where women are the majority in the fields of healthcare professionalism, education, psychology, sociology and communications but are the minority in fields like engineering, computer science, applied science, etc.

I can only really talk about what I've experienced, but, going through the education of Game Design, I've found the following.

Four years ago, I entered College to study Game Design.

There were no females in this class.

Two years ago, I entered a University for The Art of Game Design.

20 Students total, 15 Males, 5 Females.

Last year, the intake was 10 Males, 10 Females.

Thus, I can conclude, that in 2 years time, nothing but females will be entering the Game Industry.

lollerskating:
The human gender is an immensely complex and fluid thing, just like sexuality, and you can't simply divide people into two groups and call it quits. Physical sex is another thing, but that has little to do with what's happening in your brain. Ask any trans* person. This is not the issue we're debating so I won't get further into it.

It's really not, there's men and women, that, when they get together can produce offspring as naturally intended and there's abnormalities (mental or physical).

Ukomba:
Yup, we should all go the way of Sweden, where cars aren't allowed in schools as play things because boys prefer them, teachers aren't allowed to use words like 'he' and 'she', and you can sue a toy company for showing a girl playing with a doll on a toy add. I can't wait!

Oh boy, don't get me started about the level of retarded that is going on in Sweden, with their special "gender-neutral" pronouns and where stuff like this is going on: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_sweden_s_new_gender_neutral_pronoun_causes_controversy_.html

Ironically, in the effort to free Swedish children from so-called normative behavior, gender-neutral proponents are also subjecting them to a whole set of new rules and new norms as certain forms of play become taboo, language becomes regulated, and children's interactions and attitudes are closely observed by teachers. One Swedish school got rid of its toy cars because boys "gender-coded" them and ascribed the cars higher status than other toys. Another preschool removed "free playtime" from its schedule because, as a pedagogue at the school put it, when children play freely "stereotypical gender patterns are born and cemented. In free play there is hierarchy, exclusion, and the seed to bullying." And so every detail of children's interactions gets micromanaged by concerned adults, who end up problematizing minute aspects of children's lives, from how they form friendships to what games they play and what songs they sing.

The act of sitting in the bus wrong is apparently a "sign of male dominance and misogyny" http://www.vice.com/read/swedish-feminists-are-so-bored-theyre-telling-men-how-to-sit-on-the-bus

Or this: http://www.thelocal.se/20232/20090623/ "Swedish parents keep 2-year-old's gender secret"
Although it seems to be taking off with crazy feminists in other countries too: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2089474/Beck-Laxton-Kieran-Cooper-reveal-sex-gender-neutral-child-Sasha.html

It's going as far that actual "feminists" that were fighting for actual female rights and equality in the past speak out against what it has turned into:
http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/julian-assange-is-already-condemned-by.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCZJW47V8SY

But even more generally, there's some really weird things they are doing for the purpose of some sort of imagined "total equality" of everyone, for instance: http://www.thelocal.se/43656/20121006/#.UOZJxW-yE-c

A talented head cook at a school in central Sweden has been told to stop baking fresh bread and to cut back on her wide-ranging veggie buffets because it was unfair that students at other schools didn't have access to the unusually tasty offerings.

It kinda reminds me of this short story: http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

The Lunatic:
I can only really talk about what I've experienced, but, going through the education of Game Design, I've found the following.

Four years ago, I entered College to study Game Design.

There were no females in this class.

Two years ago, I entered a University for The Art of Game Design.

20 Students total, 15 Males, 5 Females.

Last year, the intake was 10 Males, 10 Females.

Thus, I can conclude, that in 2 years time, nothing but females will be entering the Game Industry.

It must be true, satistics say so!

We better start a movement to ensure equal representation of males in the gaming industry, otherwise men will be washed aside by this tsunami of women graduates!

idodo35:
its kind of sad that a 20 year prediction is an optimistic one...

image

"We're realistic."

Fappy:
That's the way to do it. Targeting the youth is always the best way to shift cultural ideology. Many of the white adults in the 60's that hated minorities still hated them after the civil rights movement, but most of their children didn't. Look at the issue of gay marriage in the US right now. It gets a huge amount of support from young people whose ideology is at odds with that of their parents.

The problem is, the youth were already the leading voices before hand. Now, I'm not saying that this won't happen, but the people who run the industry tend to be older and there's an issue of capacity for exposure.

TV is a much more open medium (relatively so), and we still have issues with blacks on TV well after the Civil Rights movement of the 60s.

Let's keep in mind also that the other end of the stick is the demographic for games. There's a strong market for juvenile male fantasy, because teenage boys are a huge market. And late teen to twenties is the golden market. They're often the ones online bitching out women and they're the primary market. They're the ones who get butthurt when someone brings up a bigger female presence. They're the ones who buy the most games.

Now, I'd LOVE to see more of a female presence in gaming, but we still have issues seeing women in technology, period. And the lack of a market for women is an issue, and so on. If Kim Swift can inspire little girls to grow up to be a part of the industry, great. I also think that's in itself a touch optimistic.

FelixG:

In the next 20 years we will have to deal with 30 or 40 apocalypses, I wonder if the lack of sexism in gaming will be one of them?

Well, it's a slippery slope from women in gaming to women running concentration camps.

Zachery Gaskins:

Followed by at least 100 manchildren attempting to be the first ones to ask how she has time to develop games from the kitchen.

And defending whatever horrific things are said about her simply because she'd like to see women allowed into the clubhouse.

Legion:
It's kind of sad but from my personal experience almost all of the sexism in regards to video games has come from women not men, anonymous internet not included. I only know of one woman (in my life at the moment) who does not think gaming is one of those "Sad things grown men do that are meant for little boys."

I wonder what kind of filter that's poured through.

If she had said 5 years, I would have said no way. But 20 actually seems reasonable. People are beginning to speak up about the discrimination against women in the industry as well as deriding those who do it. If people continue to speak up and not passively let it happen, we might really see change. I'd love to see women becoming more influential in the gaming industry.

Abomination:
It must be true, satistics say so!

We better start a movement to ensure equal representation of males in the gaming industry, otherwise men will be washed aside by this tsunami of women graduates!

Exactly! We need to fight for the right of representation in the industry!

Sadly I think Kim is right, gonna take another few more console cycles before we will truly see a big shift in peoples behavior and thinking regarding sexism in the industry in all its forms. Perhaps when the tired old marketing focused jerks in charge who still think 90% of the audience is 14-30 males who want nothing but boobs and guns in their games are retired or dead we'll make some progress. =P

Aaron Sylvester:

Zachery Gaskins:
When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Please tell me where they're told "because reasons". If a girl said she wanted to be a game developer and the university told her "sorry you're not allowed in this C Programming class", "sorry no entrance to girls in this 3D Design class...because reasons", "sorry this game design school doesn't allow girls", THEN you would have a goddamn point. Show me evidence of this kind of shit happening all over the place, THEN you would have a point.

But when a girl says "I want to become a dentist!" who the hell is anyone to tell her she should pursue game design instead? Game design doesn't attract her interest, and that's the end of that!

The reason as to WHY genders sway towards certain professions is deep in the realms of science & research, not political debates about whether it's sexism or not. Men are men, women are women, there ARE differences. Let the scientists figure those differences out fair n' square. The world goes on regardless of which gender is or isn't interested in X or Y profession, and so far the world has done pretty darn well looking at how far we've come.

I will admit that the founders of game design and gaming as a whole were primarily male, so obviously gaming became a male thing and as a result most game designers ended up being male. That's how it turned out, you can't change the past. But more women ARE getting interested in gaming & game design, which is great. Except for the way some people harp on about it, making it sound like some sort of epidemic that not enough women are into game design? It's like complaining that not enough men are midwives. They are perfectly capable of doing it right? So please, none of this sexism talk.

I don't really care about gender ratios as much as I care about having good GAMES, and 2012 has been an awesome year for gaming. Who gives a shit what gender the developers were? Do we care what RACE they were? Of course not, so why gender?

Today I logged on facebook and found someone who had linked a video about specifically ganking girl gamers on wow because 'girls are ruining gaming'. It had more likes than dislikes. This is the sort of thing nerdy women have to put up with.

Being called fake, you are doing it for attention, you must be ugly if you are playing games, condescension from guys we meet on said games, on forums, on websites. All of these things turn women away from gaming not to mention getting the constant message that female characters aren't worth anything unless they are 'hot'.

As for the industry well I have heard about a indie game company that is predominantly women because when the company they worked for went bankrupt in the recession only the male workers were given new jobs. The women weren't even called for interviews despite having the same qualifications. Just look at this thread and see how many people haven't heard of Kim Swift. She was the lead on PORTAL ffs one of the lead games of this generation and no one has heard of her? That makes you think there is nothing wrong does it?

It's bullshit all of it and you don't have any right to sit there and say it doesn't exist.

RobfromtheGulag:

There's all this talk of sexism in games, but people seldom note that there are prominent examples of progressive games. Mirror's Edge? Fans are clamoring for a sequel, EA has all but said they're working on it, and the game featured an unsexualized plausible female lead. (inb4 she wore a tank top so she's objectified, inb4 'but we wanna be sexy')

There's a difference between sexism in games - what is presented on screens - and sexism in the industry, what happens behind the scenes. It sounds more like the people working on games are atypically sexist. Whether or not that results in more sexist games? Maybe. But that's an issue that needs to be solved on its own. This problem we're talking about is women in the workplace kind of guff, not women in the media or portrayals of fictional women. Well. Not guff. That's a poor choice of word. ...you get my point.

Aaron Sylvester:
I don't really care about gender ratios as much as I care about having good GAMES, and 2012 has been an awesome year for gaming. Who gives a shit what gender the developers were? Do we care what RACE they were? Of course not, so why gender?

I understand why you don't care for the behind the scenes workings of the entertainment you consume... but geez, you can't tell other people that they shouldn't care. Especially not when people's careers are on the line about this stuff. I get that you don't wanna acknowledge the inner workings of products, that's fine, but these are real people we're talking about, real people with jobs and lives and families, whose entire existence hinges on the products you buy and support. I get it. You don't have to acknowledge it. But that doesn't give you the grounds on which you can write it off completely.

Moonlight Butterfly:
It's bullshit all of it and you don't have any right to sit there and say it doesn't exist.

You're the only one in this thread so far that I actually like. Because you have a brain and you use it to adequately process ideas and concepts. ...it's so... I... I get so confused and outright upset when people seem not to be able to grasp what sexism is and what fighting it actually means. It's equally disheartening that the only person that "gets it" in this entire thread is a girl. I'm really growing to hate "nerd culture" with a passionate loathing; it's whole existence, far as I can tell, is to create an exclusive little group where those who were once ostracized and bullied and ostracize and bully others instead. It's the equivalent of the old cooties-fearing "girls nut aloud!!1!" child's mentality on a large, industry-spanning scale. And my god do I hate it. I feel more and more ashamed to like geeky things every day because it means I have to associate with this tightly wound group of utter assholes who are protecting their land like a bunch of pitbulls. Eck.

Thanks for posting, it's important that I remind myself there are those smarter and wiser than I that can actually go a way to educate about this subject with actual experience and knowledge. I want to help any way I can but I know that as a dude I really shouldn't try to do it myself. I am back-up! I am not the front line on this, and it would be pretentious of me to think so. ...or... or so I've learned.

Two things.

This is yet another article that seems to think the sexism only happens to women. It also seems to operate on the basis of "If there aren't just as many women as men within any given industry then it's down to sexism" which just isn't true.

And this prediction is ridiculous. The retail industry is one of the oldest in the world, then they still suffer from sexism. What's so special about the video game industry that it can eradicate sexism (something no culture/company has ever managed) within only 20 years?

I realise that this is a magazine site but does such a complicated issue have to be so simplified.

I just noticed this before I posted as well.

Andy of Comix Inc:
You're the only one in this thread so far that I actually like. Because you have a brain and you use it to adequately process ideas and concepts. ...it's so... I... I get so confused and outright upset when people seem not to be able to grasp what sexism is and what fighting it actually means. It's equally disheartening that the only person that "gets it" in this entire thread is a girl. I'm really growing to hate "nerd culture" with a passionate loathing; it's whole existence, far as I can tell, is to create an exclusive little group where those who were once ostracized and bullied and ostracize and bully others instead. It's the equivalent of the old cooties-fearing "girls nut aloud!!1!" child's mentality on a large, industry-spanning scale. And my god do I hate it. I feel more and more ashamed to like geeky things every day because it means I have to associate with this tightly wound group of utter assholes who are protecting their land like a bunch of pitbulls. Eck.

You have bought into a media narrative that does not accurately represent the culture or those within it.
It's sensationalism, nothing short of it.

Smeatza:
You have bought into a media narrative that does not accurately represent the culture or those within it.
It's sensationalism, nothing short of it.

I must be a sensationalist then because I'm speaking only from personal experience. The more I interact with people who are "in the culture" - especially in person - the less inclined I am to want to be apart of it. I've met nice people too! No doubt! But so many people who associate as "nerds" and "geeks" are racist, sexist homophobes. I speak only from evidence presented to me by my own eyes - I was of this opinion before "the media" told me I should have it.

Grabehn:
no kid really thinks of the people that make the games,

Except for those who grew up to be the people making games, presumably. I think there's an implication that many of the women in the industry today wanted to make games when they were but wee lasses but perhaps didn't have a female icon to look up to in the field, and now they want to be sure that for the (admittedly few!) kids that are thinking along the same lines as them, they are those role models that were vacant during their childhoods. It's like where you really want to be an astronaut but then you give up because you find out you're meant to be fit and consistently active and you really don't wanna do it? There's no doubt a girl at one point as a kid wanted to make games and then gave up because "girls aren't meant to make games" or something akin to that.

Kids aren't dumb. If you don't place many obstacles in their way they will likely grow up to be what they want to be. Encouraging a few of them along the way sure don't hurt. And every kid has an interest; I loved music, I knew who musicians were, and now I've grown up to be a musician. No DOUBT there is one kid at LEAST that loves games, knows who game developers are, and will grow up to be a game developer. Besides. Game developers are basically über-nerds, artists and programmers and real concept-minded heavy thinkers. Those kids that grew up to be game developers were likely not your... how you say it... "average" kid.

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