Sony Patent Hammers GameStop Share Price

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Andy Chalk:
"Sony is on record as saying that it has no desire to limit consumer choice

Maybe I am the only one to remember, but didn't Sony say "Sure you can install Linux." Then took that choice away?

Damn it Sony!
In your attempt to keep control of your ideas, you're hurting the people who help everyone.

Eclipse Dragon:

FelixG:

Eclipse Dragon:
snip

Well, the reason for high price points on digital retail is actually because of stores like Gamestop.

They refuse to be undersold on any platform or store, so if they get wind that a title is going to be sold for like 40 dollars while they would sell it for 60 dollars, they will refuse to stock said title.

Most publishers will not take this risk because they rely on gamestops clientele more than they rely on digital customers for the moment.

Now, if they wanted to make this system really good they would also release a digital store front that sells games 10-20 dollars cheeper, then gamestop will get screwed on both ends, they cant resell the games, and the publishers and such wouldnt even need gamestop.

That makes sense, so why don't they?
I'm just curious to hear what you think.

Because at the moment the network systems to support such a switchover arent really there to support it.

There are those who still freak out over the idea of not owning a physical copy of the game, or more importantly they dont have the internet speed or capacity to download the games.

It wasnt long ago that I had a download limit of 60 gigs per month. Well, that made using Steam rather...interesting considering I was buying up a game maybe once a week, until I complained rather loudly at my ISP and they bumped me into the 200 range. But I still know people who have stricter download limits than I had, between 5 and 10 gigs.

So long as slow download speeds and low caps persist we (probably) wont see a switch over like that. Though Google is doing their part to fix the speed/cap problem. https://fiber.google.com/about/

Am I the only one here that likes game-stop here?? I know that there are lot of crappy ones out there however this is based on store by store bases. Thankfully my 2 local ones are run by halfway decent/competent people that actually know what they are doing and even slide by letting buy some ps1 games under the table such as dragon quest 7 and star ocean II.

while i personally disliek gamestop and want it gone, i realize that it is a necessary evil in our gaming culture.
and here we have Sony patenting technology of greed that shouldnt even be legal doing actual real damage to another company. its time to sue sony, maybe even in class action?

Tanis:
I love how gaming 'journalists' keep claiming the death of physical games.

Like EVERYONE has access to downloading a GB/second.

When I can no longer OWN a game, I'm out.

I see NO REASON to continue spending money on a HOBBY where I don't actually OWN the property.

so your out 5 years ago? because all you "own" now is a license to play the game for indefinete period of time or till they change your mind. you dont own the actual content.
everyone has at least some internet speed, and while im sorry about you americans being stuck in 90s, the world has moved on and majority has over MB/s. you dont need GB/s, with 1MB/s you can easily download a game in a hour or less, which is sitll less time than it takes you to go to the store and buy it, not to mention the convienience.
so you never been to amusement part? theater? concert? or do you own all of them?

Strazdas:

Tanis:
I love how gaming 'journalists' keep claiming the death of physical games. Like EVERYONE has access to downloading a GB/second.
When I can no longer OWN a game, I'm out.
I see NO REASON to continue spending money on a HOBBY where I don't actually OWN the property.

so your out 5 years ago? because all you "own" now is a license to play the game for indefinete period of time or till they change your mind. you dont own the actual content.
everyone has at least some internet speed, and while im sorry about you americans being stuck in 90s, the world has moved on and majority has over MB/s. you dont need GB/s, with 1MB/s you can easily download a game in a hour or less, which is sitll less time than it takes you to go to the store and buy it, not to mention the convienience.
so you never been to amusement part? theater? concert? or do you own all of them?

And tell me, when your digital games DON'T transfer to your next gen consoles.
-All that money lost.

You're NOT going to be pissed?
Or are you just so loaded with cash it doesn't matter to you?

10 years from now I'll STILL be able to play any game I own a PHYSICAL copy of, so long as I have the hardware.

Can you say the same about all the digital only games you have, many of which rely on DRM?

Strazdas:

everyone has at least some internet speed, and while im sorry about you americans being stuck in 90s, the world has moved on and majority has over MB/s. you dont need GB/s, with 1MB/s you can easily download a game in a hour or less, which is sitll less time than it takes you to go to the store and buy it, not to mention the convienience.
so you never been to amusement part? theater? concert? or do you own all of them?

It does indeed suck to be stuck with american internet, as I said above google is working on the problem, I cant wait till they get out of Kansas city though.

Most games around right around 40 gigs though, that takes you about 10-12 hours give or take at a 1 mb/s connection.

My tactic though if I buy a large game; buy it before I go to bed then work, when I get home from work I have a brand new game waiting for me ready to be played!

Sylveria:

Yes, yes we did.

I can only imagine how publishers will exploit this if its implemented. No reason to even drop the price of games and they can jack the price up as high as they want since there is no competition from used games. Wouldn't surprise me at all if some of the bigger AAA titles started carrying a $100+ price tag on launch.

Used prices actually don't cause depreciation. Used prices are usually scaled based on the current new price, which is mostly impacted by physical stock and cost of business. Shelf real estate is a premium deal, and game retailers will cut the price to lower their stock. This in no way affects the money the publishers get, either. After all, the stock is already sold.

The other way prices are lowered is through the price being set lower, but that's already drying up anyway so it's hardly going to be the fault of this system. If you're worried about prices, Digital Distribution is actually the larger threat.

Strazdas:

so your out 5 years ago?

His out what?

because all you "own" now is a license to play the game for indefinete period of time or till they change your mind. you dont own the actual content.

False.

everyone has at least some internet speed, and while im sorry about you americans being stuck in 90s, the world has moved on and majority has over MB/s. you dont need GB/s, with 1MB/s you can easily download a game in a hour or less, which is sitll less time than it takes you to go to the store and buy it, not to mention the convienience.

Math fail aside, America is still the largest consumer of video games, generally outselling Europe and Asia by ridiculous margins. You guys really don't have the clout to set the trends. Sorry.

Haven't bought a used game in a long time (as a mainly digital PC customer, that's probably quite normal). I actually think this tech is a good idea.

Though it seems they're going to use publishers to do the deed, I wouldn't be opposed to Sony if they made the tech standard with the PS4 themselves.

In my experience as a game retailer some time ago, it doesn't matter how tough times get, people will always find the money for their hobbies. They might do it with a very sour expression- they might be seriously pissed off- but they'll still fork the money over the counter rather than go without.

I'm not convinced that the obliteration of the pre-owned market would exclude anyone from gaming. Perhaps just the smallest, tiniest minority of the total number of people who SAY they couldn't afford it any more; a fraction of a fraction. The rest simply wouldn't be able to have as much, or to have as often. But when they DID buy, that money would be going to the publishers and developers as it should.

Tanis:

And tell me, when your digital games DON'T transfer to your next gen consoles.
-All that money lost.

You're NOT going to be pissed?
Or are you just so loaded with cash it doesn't matter to you?

10 years from now I'll STILL be able to play any game I own a PHYSICAL copy of, so long as I have the hardware.

Can you say the same about all the digital only games you have, many of which rely on DRM?

1. dont use consoles, use PCs.
2. im not going to be pissed, i had many enjoyable hours that i have paid for.
3. trust me, you probably look like billionaire compared to me, and im not complaning "omg i cant afford new game every week im so poor"
4. 10 years from now you will be able to play any game you had with same hardware. you will be albe to do the same for downloaded version ones. most downloadable games didnt start to DRM till last year, and that is not the fault of donwloads but of game companies. your physical copies (silly silly saying) are DRMed as well. try playing AC2 in 10 years when ubis servers are down, i dare you.

how many of the gaming population will ahve set up and runing same hardware in 10 years? 1%? less? and we have to pay more and have unconfortable trade system for them?

FelixG:

Most games around right around 40 gigs though, that takes you about 10-12 hours give or take at a 1 mb/s connection.

My tactic though if I buy a large game; buy it before I go to bed then work, when I get home from work I have a brand new game waiting for me ready to be played!

wow, hold your horses there good sir. most games are 8gb to 16 gb in size. i havent even saw a 40 gb game for download yet. you are correct that 40 gb would download 11,37 hours on 1 MB/s internet. i for one have a 37,5 mb/s internet, so.... (now of course most of the time the digital download webiste speed is limited to 3-4mb/s :( )
and yes, a overnight download is a good tactic, one i used to use before i had fiberoptics.

Zachary Amaranth:

everyone has at least some internet speed, and while im sorry about you americans being stuck in 90s, the world has moved on and majority has over MB/s. you dont need GB/s, with 1MB/s you can easily download a game in a hour or less, which is sitll less time than it takes you to go to the store and buy it, not to mention the convienience.

Math fail aside, America is still the largest consumer of video games, generally outselling Europe and Asia by ridiculous margins. You guys really don't have the clout to set the trends. Sorry.

not false. read up on mods cour cases.
Yes, your consumer rate is the reason why we cant have nice things. Just because there is a big old elephant in the room does not mean the mice cant scare him.

Strazdas:

FelixG:

Most games around right around 40 gigs though, that takes you about 10-12 hours give or take at a 1 mb/s connection.

My tactic though if I buy a large game; buy it before I go to bed then work, when I get home from work I have a brand new game waiting for me ready to be played!

wow, hold your horses there good sir. most games are 8gb to 16 gb in size. i havent even saw a 40 gb game for download yet. you are correct that 40 gb would download 11,37 hours on 1 MB/s internet. i for one have a 37,5 mb/s internet, so.... (now of course most of the time the digital download webiste speed is limited to 3-4mb/s :( )
and yes, a overnight download is a good tactic, one i used to use before i had fiberoptics.

Well good sir you are correct!

I was being stupid and looked at my downloads for a whole month instead of per game, I now feel like a dunce! :P

I wish I could use fiberoptic ~.~ My local cable company wants a good deal of money every month for that though, and they STILL have data caps on it! A data cap you could run through in 30 minutes if you arent careful no less ~.~

What I would love to see from this development is developers and such getting a cut of GameStop's used game revenues. Sony says they don't want to use it, but have it in case developers wish to use it. Now imagine a developer holding GameStop hostage saying they want a small % of their used game sales otherwise the disc is going to be locked. It may be a shady business practice but it would be good for the consumer and the developer... which means it won't be happening.

Knowing Sony's love for control, this will unquestionably make it into their next console.
Besides, if the PS4 is as big a fuckup as the Vita, Gamestop loses out there too.

No wonder Gamestop is testing used Blu-Rays in certain markets. They probably want a bit of a cushion to soften profits declining due to things of this nature.

Late inb4 hate for GS.

OT: I don't see it happening. Whether its digital copies or physical copies, developers/publishers need of stores like GS and such. And let's assume that they are gonna go through with the "anti used games" feature. They will especially need clueless parents wandering into physical stores buying games their children wouldn't buy because they know better than to take a risk and buy a game they will be stuck with.

Zachary Amaranth:

Sylveria:

Yes, yes we did.

I can only imagine how publishers will exploit this if its implemented. No reason to even drop the price of games and they can jack the price up as high as they want since there is no competition from used games. Wouldn't surprise me at all if some of the bigger AAA titles started carrying a $100+ price tag on launch.

Used prices actually don't cause depreciation. Used prices are usually scaled based on the current new price, which is mostly impacted by physical stock and cost of business. Shelf real estate is a premium deal, and game retailers will cut the price to lower their stock. This in no way affects the money the publishers get, either. After all, the stock is already sold.

The other way prices are lowered is through the price being set lower, but that's already drying up anyway so it's hardly going to be the fault of this system. If you're worried about prices, Digital Distribution is actually the larger threat.

Oh you don't need to sell me on the horrors of Digital. Digital price of a game is still $60 when you can get a brand new physical copy for a 1/3 that price. No reason to lower the price since, as you said, there's no shelf space to worry about. They can price-fix indefinitely.

For example, I just recently got Castlevania Lords of Shadow, new, for $15-20. I went to check what DLC it had, two story packs, both priced at around $10. So, to get the DLC for a game, I'd have to pay nearly the same price I paid for the game itself.

Strazdas:

Tanis:

And tell me, when your digital games DON'T transfer to your next gen consoles.
-All that money lost.

You're NOT going to be pissed?
Or are you just so loaded with cash it doesn't matter to you?

10 years from now I'll STILL be able to play any game I own a PHYSICAL copy of, so long as I have the hardware.

Can you say the same about all the digital only games you have, many of which rely on DRM?

4. 10 years from now you will be able to play any game you had with same hardware. you will be albe to do the same for downloaded version ones. most downloadable games didnt start to DRM till last year, and that is not the fault of donwloads but of game companies. your physical copies (silly silly saying) are DRMed as well. try playing AC2 in 10 years when ubis servers are down, i dare you.

Try playing a game for DOS or Windows 95 on your PC right now without a third party program. Meanwhile, I'll toss Final Fantasy 7 in to my PSX. Let's see which works. Oh we're talking about modern consoles. Okay... we'll let me unplug my PS3's Ethernet cable and play.. hum.. what's a launch game.. Enchanted Arms. Well look at that.. it works just fine.

DVS BSTrD:
Sony what means more to you?
The millions in sales you WON'T lose because people who buy used would most likely never purchase the game at all?
OR the millions you WILL lose by alienating your customers?

Or the exclusives EA and Ubisoft will give them because they are given the perfect way to get rid of the used market, something both of those companies want to do very, very much.

Can you say, exclusive Bioware game for the Ps4?

008Zulu:

Andy Chalk:
"Sony is on record as saying that it has no desire to limit consumer choice

Maybe I am the only one to remember, but didn't Sony say "Sure you can install Linux." Then took that choice away?

Yes, 4 years later, with an optional patch that people could opt out of. Seeing the problem with your false equivalency?

Tanis:

And tell me, when your digital games DON'T transfer to your next gen consoles.
-All that money lost.

You're NOT going to be pissed?
Or are you just so loaded with cash it doesn't matter to you?

You mean all the digital games on consoles you can still easily play on those consoles completely removed from the internet, and therefore you can still play as long as you have the hardware in 10 years?

For those who might know about the history of gaming...
Have developers/publishers ever tried working with game sellers to compromise on the profits?

For example: Publishers/developers take a greater hit on cuts at time of 1st purchase in exchange for a minor cut on the profits made through second/third sales made through major chains.

babinro:
For those who might know about the history of gaming...
Have developers/publishers ever tried working with game sellers to compromise on the profits?

For example: Publishers/developers take a greater hit on cuts at time of 1st purchase in exchange for a minor cut on the profits made through second/third sales made through major chains.

Since prices are set on a store by store basis, there is literally nothing to enforce this outside of the honor system for each of those stores. It would be nearly unmanageable.

Foolproof:

DVS BSTrD:
Sony what means more to you?
The millions in sales you WON'T lose because people who buy used would most likely never purchase the game at all?
OR the millions you WILL lose by alienating your customers?

Or the exclusives EA and Ubisoft will give them because they are given the perfect way to get rid of the used market, something both of those companies want to do very, very much.

Can you say, exclusive Bioware game for the Ps4?

Gunna have to be a LOT of exclusives if they're wiling to shut out the Xbox 720's share of the console market.

Foolproof:
Yes, 4 years later, with an optional patch that people could opt out of. Seeing the problem with your false equivalency?

No. Since the patch means you either get the Linux option and not being able to play your legally purchased games, or play your games and no Linux. That's eliminating choices right there.

You know, I could have sworn there was a little something in capitalism where when someone buys something, it's no longer the original sellers property. But oh well, maybe Sony is right. Maybe we shouldn't have the right to do whatever we want with our property. Instead, we should all get down on our knees and thank sony for the magnificent privilege we have to play their games.

Seriously though, Businesses aren't so much 'capitalist' as they are benevolent dictatorships. When you buy a game, you're not really buying a game and it's sure as hell isn't your property. Instead, they pretty much just give you the 'privilege' to play their games.

Strazdas:

not false. read up on mods cour cases.

I could say the same.

Yes, your consumer rate is the reason why we cant have nice things.

You seem to enjoy products that are a direct effect of our "consumer rate." Kind of ridiculous to complain as you enjoy something made predominantly feasible by the ones you're complaining about. Maybe it's one of those cases of "keep your government hands off my medicare!"

You're welcome, by the way.

Still, the longer it takes to go full DD, the happier I will be. And I can download games pretty damned fast. In fact, it always baffles me to watch these people who enjoy Steam so much complain about having to wait 20 hours or so to get their game. Convenience, my eye.

loa:

Not that it's very likely to happen, according to analysts including Michael Pachter. "Sony is on record as saying that it has no desire to limit consumer choice," he said in an investors note. "Our more rational view is that Sony intends to put the ID matching technology into its consoles to provide individual publishers with the ability to block the playing of used games. The news has negatively impacted GameStop shares, and we think the reaction is overblown."

So sony doesn't want to "limit the customer choice", it only wants to give individual publishers means to limit it?
This either makes 0 sense or has been quote-butchered to oblivion.

Well I think it's sony's attempt to not be the bad guy while still attracting publishers because publishers are just as much customers as we are. Of course sony itself publishes games so first i'm curious to see if they actually put the tech in the machine and if they would use it on the games they publish.

Or we could say sony is a benevolent deity of gaming that chooses to create the ultimate evil and hold it so no one can use it... but ugh that probably isn't the case.

008Zulu:

Foolproof:
Yes, 4 years later, with an optional patch that people could opt out of. Seeing the problem with your false equivalency?

No. Since the patch means you either get the Linux option and not being able to play your legally purchased games, or play your games and no Linux. That's eliminating choices right there.

No, you are fully allowed to play your legally obtained games. You just can't play them using the online service Sony provided. So, if you chose to keep Linux, you can freely, so long as you don't then try and go online.

Oh, you want both Linux and online play? Are you familiar with the phrase "having your cake and eating it too?"

lSHaDoW-FoXl:
You know, I could have sworn there was a little something in capitalism where when someone buys something, it's no longer the original sellers property.

Which is why anyone who has ever sold a perishable in human history is a thief. I'm onto you, people who have sold food.

This is the exact same goddamn thing - they aren't legally forcing you to never resell a game, you can do that if you wish. But if you're using it and then reselling it, then they have every single right in the world to make that game worth about as much as a re-used sandwich.

The scary part is the PS4 will come out and play all games, including used ones. Then one day they'll remove it as a feature the same way they did to backwards compatibility in the PS3.

Also, how many games do I have to buy because my console dies. Now I have to deal with licenses on a physical disc. Fuck no.

And finally, I have more than one PS3 in my house. I can play games on either one. I don't know how companies don't see the fact that if I can't play my games on my consoles at my convenience, then I won't be buying any of their games.

Sony, the used games I have in my library, are those I could not find as not previously owned. If you use this patent, I can guarantee that you will lose a faithful customer.

Eh, it could be a way to force the issue of project $10. Right now, unlock codes are often needed just for shit like online play and DLC, and not everyone cares, especially if they're playing said used game years after the initial release (i.e. when there's not going to be much of an online community anymore).

Whereas with this, if you buy a used copy, they could force you to shell out $10 just to buy an unlock code that allows the game to work at all.

Goddamnit, Sony. I was a shoe-in for the PS4 because of Xbox Live, but if you but this shit on your console I'm going to wait and see if Microsoft does the same thing. If they don't, sorry, I'm converted.

EDIT: But if they did this and dropped the price to, say $40 per new release instead of $60 because they're no longer losing sales to the used market, I could be okay with it. ...However, what are the chances that'll idea will ever happen.

FoolKiller:
The scary part is the PS4 will come out and play all games, including used ones. Then one day they'll remove it as a feature the same way they did to backwards compatibility in the PS3.

And when people buy it far more after the removal than before it, then that will completely validate the idea, and prove that playing used games, like backwards compatability, is not worthwhile to gamers.

Foolproof:
No, you are fully allowed to play your legally obtained games. You just can't play them using the online service Sony provided. So, if you chose to keep Linux, you can freely, so long as you don't then try and go online.

Oh, you want both Linux and online play? Are you familiar with the phrase "having your cake and eating it too?"

Ahh, so you are acknowledging that Sony is in fact limiting choices. Perhaps now you would like to justify how it's a good idea.

Candidus:
Haven't bought a used game in a long time (as a mainly digital PC customer, that's probably quite normal). I actually think this tech is a good idea.

Though it seems they're going to use publishers to do the deed, I wouldn't be opposed to Sony if they made the tech standard with the PS4 themselves.

In my experience as a game retailer some time ago, it doesn't matter how tough times get, people will always find the money for their hobbies. They might do it with a very sour expression- they might be seriously pissed off- but they'll still fork the money over the counter rather than go without.

I'm not convinced that the obliteration of the pre-owned market would exclude anyone from gaming. Perhaps just the smallest, tiniest minority of the total number of people who SAY they couldn't afford it any more; a fraction of a fraction. The rest simply wouldn't be able to have as much, or to have as often. But when they DID buy, that money would be going to the publishers and developers as it should.

People FIND the money by selling back their old games. You take that away and game sales will drop.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Your account does not have posting rights. If you feel this is in error, please contact an administrator. (ID# 66590)