Bagless Vacuum Inventor Wants More Engineers, Less Game Devs

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So I guess all the engineers that design things like processors, GPUs ect are a figment of peoples imagination right? Though to be fair a lot of those things are neither designed or built in the UK. (might be something to do with the government constantly stifling business with bullshit taxes )

And you missed mild bouts of casual violence of that list of British things Grey.

Here's a hint. If a student is willing to put themselves through the extended hours of a good game development course fully realize how many hours they will be putting in and how little pay they will get compared to what they could be doing, and they don't jump ship like rats from the Titanic, you aren't going to convince them otherwise. You might be able to convince the high number of slackers who think the profession will be fun to join you, but honestly they aren't going to stop being slackers so you don't want them.

I hear keeping your major electronics company inside mainland UK and not China is also a great way to help the UK.

Grey Carter:

His proposed solution is to offer incentives to prospective students and ensure high salaries are waiting for them when they graduate. The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

Unless he is offering absolutely guaranteed jobs for graduates, there is little use telling students that if they become an engineer they could make more money.

People say stupid stuff like that over here in the US. "Oh, go into this field, you will be guaranteed a job." Wink wink. People, if anybody tells you that, tell them they are full of crap. Closest thing people here in the US get to having a guaranteed job is if they are coming out of college and have three to five years of experience in their field(college doesn't count as experience) and have five good outside referrals, and at least two or three good inside connections at the place they are looking to work. Of course, I said close to guaranteed, because nothing is ever guaranteed(well unless you are one of the luckiest people in the world).

If he is looking for engineers, why doesn't he import some from here in the US. There are plenty of engineer students coming out of colleges here with jobs few and far between.

Heck, I have a friend who graduated with an engineering degree around four years ago. What work has he had? Stocking at a Target for about six months, three months working at an oil refinery(then got laid off because supply talks for the plant went downhill), and now for almost a year, all he has had is a part time job as a cashier and back office worker at a grocery store.

So I would say to Dyson, "Unless you are truly offering something real to students, your wanting of more engineers is a pipe dream. Because, I'm willing the bet the same stupid hiring practices happen over there like they do here, so that is what scares students off from going for degrees in such things."

As others have said, the real problem is a chronic lack of engineering jobs. I have a friend who studied Civil Engineering. The oldest form of engineering after military engineering, according to Wikipedia. You think with a degree like that, he'd be well placed to start working on anything, constructing roads, buildings, dams, satellites... but sadly, he's still looking for work.

The government needs to stop playing silly buggers with the economy, stop slashing everything they can find, and actually start investing in schemes that provide work for the thousands of engineering graduates we've already got...

Grey Carter:

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

... oh, fuck you Cameron. You and your outdated notions of what constitutes being British.

Seriously, what the fuck is 'Britishness'? Because Britain is the one nation in Europe which could be defined by the different nationalities that have occupied it at some point or other in history. We've been invaded by Italians, Angles, Saxons, Normans, and Vikings, and whatever 'indigenous' culture we may have once had was wiped out thousands of years ago by invaders from other cultures. British culture is multicultural. Even our monarchy is multicultural: the Queen is part German, and her husband is Greek.

Stop trying to appeal to the BNP bigots, and learn to accept that there is no such thing as 'indigenous' British culture. We're essentially the bastard child of every major nation in Europe. They've all fathered us to one extent or another.

neonit:

Grey Carter:
.....The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.....

What the.... Wha.... Why...

What is the point of that? Im sorry, but i just couldnt concentrate on anything else after seeing this. Is that common?

Holy shit is this stupid!

Frankly i see two things that could have happened here - either someone lobbied hard to get some cash back, or this is some kind of thinly veiled racism.

Id assume both...

As to why people flock to gaming industry, i have no idea. Probably they think game development = playing games a lot. And it is kinda true. Go ahead, and play one game for the next 2 years, then tell me how much fun it is :P

Im doing ICT at the moment, and this is because the government of our country said "WE NEED MORE PEOPLE RIGHT HERE!" and a couple of other "engineer" related studies. And i most probably wont have trouble finding job after this.

They even considered making "technical studies" free of charge iirc.

The test sounds mental, but in reality you score a bunch of points for having a British character in your game, or having most of the development happening in the UK, and it's not too difficult to pass. It sounds mental, I agree, but it's not as racist as you think =)

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
As others have said, the real problem is a chronic lack of engineering jobs. I have a friend who studied Civil Engineering. The oldest form of engineering after military engineering, according to Wikipedia. You think with a degree like that, he'd be well placed to start working on anything, constructing roads, buildings, dams, satellites... but sadly, he's still looking for work.

The government needs to stop playing silly buggers with the economy, stop slashing everything they can find, and actually start investing in schemes that provide work for the thousands of engineering graduates we've already got...

Grey Carter:

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

... oh, fuck you Cameron. You and your outdated notions of what constitutes being British.

Seriously, what the fuck is 'Britishness'? Because Britain is the one nation in Europe which could be defined by the different nationalities that have occupied it at some point or other in history. We've been invaded by Italians, Angles, Saxons, Normans, and Vikings, and whatever 'indigenous' culture we may have once had was wiped out thousands of years ago by invaders from other cultures. British culture is multicultural. Even our monarchy is multicultural: the Queen is part German, and her husband is Greek.

Stop trying to appeal to the BNP bigots, and learn to accept that there is no such thing as 'indigenous' British culture. We're essentially the bastard child of every major nation in Europe. They've all fathered us to one extent or another.

If you look into it, the "test for Britishness" is actually things like "game has a bit set in the UK" or "game features a Brit". It's not how many Union Flags appear in the game or something. If anything, this PROMOTES the idea of a multicultural Britain, since it encourages developers to move to the UK.

I'll agree the whole "Britishness" phrasing is pretty dumb and it might seem like the government is being all insular, but it's more of a representation of culture in art.

This.

No really, this.

He makes such a good point i'm surprised so many fail to see this as an issue. Universities and colleges should stop video game development specific degrees. Some people hypothesize this will net us better games in the future by teaching the next generation of games designers the tools of the trade before they get their hands dirty in the job market. But current job market conditions really screw over specific degrees like this one. A lot of people seem to forget that current video game designers didn't do a degree like the ones being offered today. They studied Physics, Computer science and Engineering. Do people realize what word can appear often in gaming? a "Physics Engine" Does that imply some understanding of physics i wonder?

I really hope that a lot of these courses fail and people go back to doing core scientific subjects who then, after obtaining the general degree, specialize in videogaming. If they fail and do not get a job (which is the current state of the videogame job market), they can go on to do other jobs in those fields and not be shackled down by a degree that looks too specific on a CV to be applied elsewhere. Be honest, if you were looking over job applications for a bank or somewhere else where videogame design skills might be applied, who would you choose for an interview? "Physics" or "Videogame Design"? I'm not saying the coding skills learned in these courses are useless elsewhere, its just you'd fail to convey that as succinctly as other degree titles.

Keep in mind, Halo, Call of Duty and other blockbusters of our generation came from people who studied these core subjects. Thus a videogame design degree is not needed to make such a game!

TL;DR

Want to make video games? Go back to learning physics and not "Video game design". It will serve you better in the future when 343i reject you from the team for Halo 6

As a recently graduated engineering student, he's got a point. A lot of engineering students would prefer to work in games rather than in other fields. If you look at it at the macro level like he is, the country and community might be better off if they went into development of products other than games. On the micro level, however, the students are going into games because that's what they're passionate about, and that's a good thing. Finding a job in a field you're passionate about should be every student's dream.

I think we just need more students majoring in engineering period. Then we can have more game devs AND more non-gaming engineers.

LavaLampBamboo:
...most of the development happening in the UK...

That i can understand, with the "create new jobs" etc. that actually does make sense.

But i dunno, it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.... And it still stinks of "cultural superiority complex" to me.

But meh, maybe its just me.

Well I for one think that we should have less Homer Simpsons and more money for public schools!

Anyhow, as demand for engineers increase, so will their paygrade, drawing more people back into that career path. These things have a way of equalising themselves.

The Plunk:
Does this guy not realise that video games are just as, if not more exportable than technology? This would be even better if the government offered tax breaks to video games without the arbitrary "5 beef-eaters and 2 double-decker buses" requirement.

There's also the fact that many people interested in game design have nowhere near the mathematical skills required for engineering.

You know, engineers are kind of more useful to real life than game developers. It might be hard to believe, but it's true.

Well, I'm both, but not in the UK. Wouldn't mind a financial stimulus for here in the US, either. It's quite hard to find a decent engineering position for about half the grads that come out of the school. But, it's not like I can say anything against the man. If one of the most profitable engineers of our day wants more engineers, well, we should get on that. I'm not saying we should abandon gaming and media wholesale, however. Can't we find some middle ground, like robbing some from the other liberal arts degrees?

I sort of see where he's coming from, but not in regards to his business- in regards to the actual game developers themselves, or I should say, would-be game developers. I'm starting to think we're suffering from an oversaturation of game design students, as I've at least six friends who went to university to study all of this stuff, and are now all unemployed, because nobody needs or wants game developers right now.

Nimbus:
Uh, those two careers require radically different skillsets. I'm 3 years into a comp sci course, and I've yet to do any maths! Seriously, there's almost no overlap.

That's surprising to me. A comp sci course where math is not required....hmmmm.

That makes as much sense to me as having a business degree, but only having a cursory knowledge of what the company you work for produces.

Ohhh Hang on....

I think I might have stumbled on a core issue here. :)

The core reason for Engineer numbers dropping is lack of jobs, the government doing away for loans for masters courses amd increasing tuition fees (most decent BEng are now the max which is like 9K a year) but cutting funding and tax cuts to university's.

Then there's the issue that even for well qualified engineering students there are jobs, but very few in desirable fields.

I think the real problem here is that Dyson vacuum cleaners aren't even that good. Wake up to the truth people!

I vote Vax every time.

old janitor flames government

if he wants to impress me, the title should be:

old janitor creates 60,000 jobs

the fact that we've spent as long playing games and watching tv as there has been time is quite true
man hours rack up really quick, do the math on one or two online games and your head will explode!

but people need leisure time and thus leisure must be created, without it we'd either go insane or
become mindless drones, endlessly gluing parts to vacuum cleaners on a never ending assembly line
and it's none of Dyson's business where, when or on what people spend their leisure time

if gaming hasn't become an obsession in your life that you shrug all other duty's to do it then
frankly power to you

dyson is actually supposedly a bit of a prick in the edison vein.

he takes on engineering students and locks them into draconian long term contracts where his firm owns anything they invent and his name gets put on every patent and then slaps them with huge heavyweight NDAs and the like when they manage to leave.

guy has a bit of a paranoid control freaky streak that goes right back to when the other manufacturers tried to buy and bury his bagless vacuum designs when he was first starting out and its been reported in the UK press on more than a few occasions.

i believe i've even heard of him having ex employees followed by private detectives to make sure they don't approach other manufacturers for work.

if true i'm not surprised he has a hard time finding graduates.

NinjaDeathSlap:

Grey Carter:
The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Blood Brain Barrier:

NinjaDeathSlap:

Grey Carter:
The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Except that Britain is no more 'about' Beefeaters, Pork Pies and Stonehenge than America is 'about' Ten Gallon Hats and six-shooters, or Italy is 'about' fast cars and the Mafia. No culture in the world can be defined by such superficial elements.

This is like a few years ago when it was revealed that the test about British culture and history that asylum-seekers were having forced on them before they were deemed 'British' enough to enter the country, actually couldn't be passed by most people who were born and bred in Britain. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a stupid idea now.

Xan Krieger:

Zombie_Moogle:
He makes a point, of sorts, but I can't help but feel like this is sour grapes from the guy that sells vacuums for $3,000 a pop

Might be more concerned with his own business than the future of technology

and those bladeless fans, you could fill a whole room with ordinary fans for the price of one of those things. I think the engineers in Britain's future should work towards taking what he makes and making it far more affordable. Also because it's obligatory in a topic like this Dyson as a company sucks, their overpriced stuff blows.

If only we could, but he patents damn near every component.

OT: This smacks a bit of all those people out there who go "All those NASA scientists are wasting their time, they should go cure cancer or something".

Blood Brain Barrier:
Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Seriously. If SquareEnix ever made a Final Fantasy game inspired by British history rather than Japanese I would be all over that shit.

This idea isn't something David Cameron has just invented; Tony Blair and even Gordon Brown had ideas for a Britishness test for potential immigrants.

NinjaDeathSlap:

Blood Brain Barrier:

NinjaDeathSlap:

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Except that Britain is no more 'about' Beefeaters, Pork Pies and Stonehenge than America is 'about' Ten Gallon Hats and six-shooters, or Italy is 'about' fast cars and the Mafia. No culture in the world can be defined by such superficial elements.

This is like a few years ago when it was revealed that the test about British culture and history that asylum-seekers were having forced on them before they were deemed 'British' enough to enter the country, actually couldn't be passed by most people who were born and bred in Britain. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a stupid idea now.

If you regard those things as superficial, you must have an idea of things that aren't superficial. What would those be?

Well, as an engineering student I understand his complaint and sympathise because I to believe we need more, better engineers and they need to be treated better in the workplace.

Though as a gamer I'm thinking there's no connection between the two field and you really shouldn't bash those that wish to have a creative yet technical career making something they like.

Conflicted.

My vacuum cleaner is nearly a decade old and works just fine. I think we're good for vacuum cleaners. Games on the other hand, have a lot of kinks to work out.

Blood Brain Barrier:

NinjaDeathSlap:

Blood Brain Barrier:

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Except that Britain is no more 'about' Beefeaters, Pork Pies and Stonehenge than America is 'about' Ten Gallon Hats and six-shooters, or Italy is 'about' fast cars and the Mafia. No culture in the world can be defined by such superficial elements.

This is like a few years ago when it was revealed that the test about British culture and history that asylum-seekers were having forced on them before they were deemed 'British' enough to enter the country, actually couldn't be passed by most people who were born and bred in Britain. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a stupid idea now.

If you regard those things as superficial, you must have an idea of things that aren't superficial. What would those be?

Oh come on! Seriously?! You must know what I mean, surely?

When was the last time Beefeaters were at the cutting edge of British culture? When were they ever at the cutting edge of British culture? Hell, most British people, if you stopped them in the street probably couldn't tell you what a Beefeater's job actually is. I don't like Pork Pies, does that suddenly make me 'Not British Enough' despite being born and bred here? Stonehenge, I will grant, is a national landmark and one of, if not the biggest source of pre-Roman British history still standing, but all the same, can you look at Stonehenge and suddenly know everything there is to know about Britain? (I'll give you a clue, the answer is 'No'). Chicken Tikka Masala is probably more relevant to modern Britain than all three of those examples put together, and it still doesn't actually tell an outsider anything that's of any use.

The whole point I was making is that you can't just pick a few reference points that are related to British culture in some marginal respect out of a lucky dip and say "There you go. That's what it means to be British." Not only is that dumb and doesn't actually tell anyone anything of substance about Britain, but it just reinforces tired and irrelevant stereotypes. You can't just ask me to reel off a list of non-superficial elements of British culture for you, because the whole point I'm making is that the non-superficial elements are complex, abstract, and ever shifting ideas. It's a stupid thing to try and 'define Britishness' because you can't do it. That's the point I'm making!

Grey Carter:

"I am heartened that the government has shown a willingness to make the U.K. a high technology exporter," said Dyson during an interview with Radio Times magazine as quoted by the Telegraph. "But I am concerned that we are sometimes distracted by the glamor of web fads and video gaming rather than the development of tangible technology that we can export."

Maybe if he hadn't moved his company from the UK to india so his stupidly priced vac's could be made cheaper and he wouldn't have to pay UK take I might have an interest in anything he might have to say,

As it is he can go get stuffed!

Proverbial Jon:
I think the real problem here is that Dyson vacuum cleaners aren't even that good. Wake up to the truth people!

I vote Vax every time.

My good man, do not over look the Henry
image

The vacuum that smiles at you!

fix-the-spade:

Zombie_Moogle:
He makes a point, of sorts, but I can't help but feel like this is sour grapes from the guy that sells vacuums for $3,000 a pop

Okay, forgive me if $3000 was you being deliberately flippant, but seriously?!

An expensive Dyson is about $5-600 (the equivalent of) here in English land, the cheaper ones half that. It's not cheap but they last for years and they stock spares for old models. Someone's making a killing selling them for $3k...

The annoying thing about Mr Dyson is that he tends to be right a lot, which keeps making him richer. Even more annoying is that Dyson is registered to the UK and he pays his taxes, so you can't even hold that against the man, arse.

Speaking of which, there are a whole bunch of completely worthless 'game development' degree courses in the UK where graduates come out with some top-down shooter and a couple of walk cycles to show for three years work...

The most annoying thing is the bit about educating foreign students. Because he is right. I like immigrants, but I want them to stay and I want the money they make to stay as well (or at most, sent back to help the relatives move to the country).

Of course, I say this as someone who thinks it should be illegal for foreign companies to buy large amounts of land. (note I said "large", they can buy regional HQ, or buy land to build facilities on. I am talking about the ones who pay obscene prices for land, and try to rent it out to farmers, who can not afford to rent that farm ground now, because the foreigner thinks that they should be able to make money on the land (after taxes and bank loans) in year one. {/rant} ya, it just happen here and a lot of people are upset by it, because it means that much less income the farmer of our area can bring in.)

Its not really a bad thing though. Those game devs with understanding of developing in virtual environments will soon BE the engineers you are looking for as physible technology takes off as digital printing opens up a world of new design possibilities.

NinjaDeathSlap:
[quote="Blood Brain Barrier" post="7.398153.16279914"]
Oh come on! Seriously?! You must know what I mean, surely?

When was the last time Beefeaters were at the cutting edge of British culture? When were they ever at the cutting edge of British culture? Hell, most British people, if you stopped them in the street probably couldn't tell you what a Beefeater's job actually is. I don't like Pork Pies, does that suddenly make me 'Not British Enough' despite being born and bred here? Stonehenge, I will grant, is a national landmark and one of, if not the biggest source of pre-Roman British history still standing, but all the same, can you look at Stonehenge and suddenly know everything there is to know about Britain? (I'll give you a clue, the answer is 'No'). Chicken Tikka Masala is probably more relevant to modern Britain than all three of those examples put together, and it still doesn't actually tell an outsider anything that's of any use.

The whole point I was making is that you can't just pick a few reference points that are related to British culture in some marginal respect out of a lucky dip and say "There you go. That's what it means to be British." Not only is that dumb and doesn't actually tell anyone anything of substance about Britain, but it just reinforces tired and irrelevant stereotypes. You can't just ask me to reel off a list of non-superficial elements of British culture for you, because the whole point I'm making is that the non-superficial elements are complex, abstract, and ever shifting ideas. It's a stupid thing to try and 'define Britishness' because you can't do it. That's the point I'm making!

Okay, fair enough and I agree it's a stupid idea by the government. But you also said there's no such thing as Britishness.

All the little things add up. The matrix of historical factors which led to something as 'superficial' as the beefeater and the range of possibilities it provided and still provides for the willful activity of an individual are uniquely British. Same goes for Chicken Masala in the context of its assimilation into British culture through colonization. They're embedded in the history of every British person, passed on through the British language through education and its everyday use and part of the immense range of 'things' that make someone British as opposed to Iranian. You may not be able to see them but they're right there, present for everyone and unavoidable, unless you're a total hermit.

Blood Brain Barrier:

NinjaDeathSlap:
[quote="Blood Brain Barrier" post="7.398153.16279914"]
Oh come on! Seriously?! You must know what I mean, surely?

When was the last time Beefeaters were at the cutting edge of British culture? When were they ever at the cutting edge of British culture? Hell, most British people, if you stopped them in the street probably couldn't tell you what a Beefeater's job actually is. I don't like Pork Pies, does that suddenly make me 'Not British Enough' despite being born and bred here? Stonehenge, I will grant, is a national landmark and one of, if not the biggest source of pre-Roman British history still standing, but all the same, can you look at Stonehenge and suddenly know everything there is to know about Britain? (I'll give you a clue, the answer is 'No'). Chicken Tikka Masala is probably more relevant to modern Britain than all three of those examples put together, and it still doesn't actually tell an outsider anything that's of any use.

The whole point I was making is that you can't just pick a few reference points that are related to British culture in some marginal respect out of a lucky dip and say "There you go. That's what it means to be British." Not only is that dumb and doesn't actually tell anyone anything of substance about Britain, but it just reinforces tired and irrelevant stereotypes. You can't just ask me to reel off a list of non-superficial elements of British culture for you, because the whole point I'm making is that the non-superficial elements are complex, abstract, and ever shifting ideas. It's a stupid thing to try and 'define Britishness' because you can't do it. That's the point I'm making!

Okay, fair enough and I agree it's a stupid idea by the government. But you also said there's no such thing as Britishness.

All the little things add up. The matrix of historical factors which led to something as 'superficial' as the beefeater and the range of possibilities it provided and still provides for the willful activity of an individual are uniquely British. Same goes for Chicken Masala in the context of its assimilation into British culture through colonization. They're embedded in the history of every British person, passed on through the British language through education and its everyday use and part of the immense range of 'things' that make someone British as opposed to Iranian. You may not be able to see them but they're right there, present for everyone and unavoidable, unless you're a total hermit.

Well, I said that Britishness was not a value you could define in a test or a check list, not that it didn't exist. At least, that was what I meant.

MetalMagpie:

I studied Electronic Engineering at university, while my boyfriend studied Mechanical Engineering. Our experience (and the experience of other people on both our courses) is that it's really hard to get an engineering job in this country.
.

I'm going to assume you're in the UK since Lord Dyson is British. The rate of employment within the industry from 6 months after graduation in Strathclyde university's EE/ME dept. is 90%

90% of people who got their bachelor's or master's degree got a relevant job.

Your statement is less true for the field of engineers than any other field.

I'm sorry, but it's "fewer" game devs. Dyson wants fewer game devs, not less. It seems like the author's grammar...
*sunglasses*
... sucks.
YEEAAHHAHHHHHH

The man is right.

Seriously.

Our engineering (and scientific research) courses don't have enough funding as it is. We need far more encouragement in those sectors I believe, and in all brutal honesty, those sectors are far more important than the video game industry right now, especially with the real and serious threat of global warming: Britain needs good scientists and engineers to help confront very serious problems, and we're not giving them the funding they deserve.

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