Apple: "If You Want To Criticize Religion, Write a Book"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT
 

When I first heard about the Endgame: Syria issue, I said I was disappointed that Apple was understandably forced into this situation as a preemptive response in case someone decided to complain about something that probably wasn't worth complaining about. I don't like that, but I can accept it. Now I'm just disappointed in Apple.

Why shouldn't they be worried that someone will complain about a book or an album? I know games are still fighting for their social acceptance among certain circles, but do they honestly thing there's THAT much of a discrepancy? Do they think games are harder to defend, or that they're actually somehow less worthy of defense?

The quality issue is somewhat more understandable, but the prerequisite "won't somebody think of the children" line is somewhere between flimsy at best and downright bullshit at worst, and everyone involved should know that. They have parental controls, and the issue here is not how well they work. If you didn't set them up then you didn't set them up and if your kid sees something they shouldn't it's your own damn fault. It's not a public place and they've provided all the safeguards they need to.

Either they present strong evidence as to why it isn't possible to do so, or they need to curate everything they sell to the same degree if only for the sake of consistency. There's almost an annoying casual flippancy to their statements, and I can't tell if they're just trying to lay down the law or if they really don't see this as a problem. At the very least, they're gonna have to own up to the double-standard if not actually do something to fix it, because I'm rapidly losing whatever sympathy for their situation I had left.

porous_shield:

Apple actually said that political or religious pretension is fine in book form but don't put it in your game so games are being judged on a different criteria than books.

Read the article, or better yet read the primary source. It says that apps (not games) on the Apple App Store are different than books and songs, two things that the app store wasn't made for. Apple isn't singling out games at all, they're making a blanket statement about all apps they approve. It seems like you people are making a bigger issue out of this than you should be.

censorship under the hood of "think of the children"? well think of the children, stop this stupidity.
then again this is apple, restricting decisions are to be expected.

Harker067:
Anyone else thinking back to nintendo of america's censorship policies?

There IS a reason i dont buy nintendo....

Another reason to dislike apple... like one was needed. Thanks :P

I actually have no problem with Apple or their approach to the developers. It was straight forward and pretty clear. There are those who would argue it is 'unfair' to games. But the same could be said for any medium. There are TV stations that don't air certain content, or theaters that don't show particular movies. It is up to the consumer to watch/pay/shop there or not. If you bought an Apple product, you knew that Apple had the right to choose what things were allowed in their store. This isn't a sudden shift in policy. Or a surprise.
IF you feel cheated, then you just didn't care enough when you handed over the cash. I bought Android for this purpose, I do not want any company dictating to me what I can have/use on my computer/phone/whatever.
If you don't like it, buy from another company next-time there is no law saying you must give Apple your money.

As for people who said Apple are treating games unfairly. It isn't just limited to games but all apps. It's just that many of the low-brow apps tend to be games. Which means raising the bar can only be a good thing.

Captcha: hear hear

This is why Apple suck. They are such control freaks.

TWEWER:
I'm really glad that Apple had the balls to law down the law in the most simple way possible. They don't want to put up with shitty apps or pretentious bullshit. They never said anything about games not being able to explore deeper themes. All Apple said was that they don't want their platform to be used as a soapbox for your religious or political preaching. And they are well within their rights to maintain that policy.

I would agree with you if Apple didn't have a complete monopoly on the applications sold for their devices (something that I regard as immoral and wrong in itself, but that's not the topic now). But as it stands, they have almost complete control everything you do on your device, so banning applications for being offensive is plain and simple censorship, making Apple a direct enemy of free speech.

I'm glad to actually see some people responding negatively to this. The complete lack of criticism of Apple's bullshit in my direct environment disturbs me immensely. Almost everyone will say that freedom is an important value, yet very few seem to be willing to defend their freedom in practice.

erttheking:

teh_gunslinger:
And that's why I've been ranting about fucking Steve Jobs and Apple for neigh on 10 years.

Nice going, all you consumerist sheep who bought their products. Think different my ass. None of you ever thought an independent thought. You just wanted the shinies.

Right right, because I bought something that you don't approve of, I'm a sheep. Could you be any more insulting. God, sheep is turning into such a generic buzzword that it's slowly losing all meaning.

That being said, Apple IS basically saying that they're going to be a nanny state now, so maybe you can see where people are coming from in this case?

either way it seems rather strange that they're now trying to close the barn door years after it would have made any difference, as if now they suddenly have standards or something

"Games, films, apps, comics, music, and books should all be held to the same standard," he told GamesBeat. "To suggest that there is an invisible line that says it's OK to say something in a book but not in a game? That feels wrong to me."

The mediums are different. It might feel wrong to you but I would agree with Apple on this one. There are things that can be expressed in a book that cannot be in a video game or movie, and this goes the same whichever way around it's considered.

I don't strictly agree with the censorship, but I do agree that apps, movies, books and songs should be handled differently. Not all ideas and concepts belong in a free app and with kids running amok on the service Apple do have a responsibility to keep shit away from them. The consequences of not doing so would be worse than any controversy about standards. There is a line and while not well defined, it's a good idea to keep the app store in some form of check. Actually, it should be patrolled harder, particularly apps with microtransactions which allow kids to spend $1,000s of their parents money on twinkly stars and golden coins.

Adam Jensen:
This is why Apple any corporation sucks. They are such control freaks.

Fixed. You could say that about Microsoft too. They aren't has freedom loving as people want them to think.

TheNarrator:
I would agree with you if Apple didn't have a complete monopoly on the applications sold for their devices (something that I regard as immoral and wrong in itself, but that's not the topic now). But as it stands, they have almost complete control everything you do on your device, so banning applications for being offensive is plain and simple censorship, making Apple a direct enemy of free speech.

I'm glad to actually see some people responding negatively to this. The complete lack of criticism of Apple's bullshit in my direct environment disturbs me immensely. Almost everyone will say that freedom is an important value, yet very few seem to be willing to defend their freedom in practice.

But, but we don't want freedom! We have as much as we need and no more! There's no need for us to take apart our phone and see what's inside as we love Apple and promise not to make them angry!

/sarcasm

This mentality is why I left both Apple and Microsoft and went straight to Linux for the majority of my work. Some of us want to know what's inside our phones, and a good chunk of us like our freedom. We're not ready to give up our freedom just for using a locked down device.

teh_gunslinger:
My point is: Apples marketing is aimed at annoying hipster types that think they're unique snowflakes. They then buy the most closed of eco system available that basically allows only one way of doing anything. The Way of Jobs. That's why I call people sheep. Because they listen to obnoxious marketing. If they/you thought about it for more than a second you'd realise that Apple is actively harming the consumer.

No need to make it personal against the guy you're discussing it with. I agree with you, but you're forgetting that most people aren't technologically savvy. 10 years ago, it was predicted that we'd all have some idea of what goes on inside a computer, but people can't even tell me what certain "buttons" do. I'd say it's more Apple's fault for actively brainwashing the consumer by realizing that no one knows exactly what's going on inside their product when they have a certain feature.

That's a shame... There are better ways to sort these apps then just rejecting the ones that a corporate giant deems as proper and safe. Shame on Apple.

In my opinion, it all comes down to being a pain in the ass and not wanting to understand what Apple meant by what the said, or having common sense and reading between the lines.
Basically, it says it's not taking chances with games that tackle heavy matters unless they are deep in content, as much as most books and movies do. A strategy game, probably as superficial as every other strategy game in the app store, going about an actual and CURRENT conflict... Well, that's controversial, potentially offensive (many people who take part in conflicts find the games offensive), and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to put in your store, hell, Six Days in Fallujah also got canceled for those reasons, people just didn't speak the words.
If the game had the depth of a book to it, of a documentary, it would probably pass, I believe, after all, the app store (in the Mac) has games that could be considered "controversial" but have enough content to go over it.
Last but not least, it's hard to do an honest game about a current conflict, it's not over, not enough facts are known.

Really? Someone decided to dispense with the legalese and go back to "I'll decide what is and isn't allowed by my own judgment, whatever process that may describe"? That's pretty damn audacious.

I can see Apple blocking something like "Endgame Syria" and having a defense for doing so (I vehemently disagree with this defense) without being political in its censorship. But when it bans something like "Drone+"? I don't see how anyone could argue that an app pinpointing the locations of US drone strikes on a map was "not useful or entertaining enough" because I sure as hell could have used it. And then to block it later for being "excessively objectionable or crude content"? How is that anything other that political censorship?

I regret not getting an android :(....I missed out on a snes emulator

you know what? I dont get it....I don't get people who go crazy over iphone and wait in lines to get the latest model

I have an iphone 5 and you know whats amazing about it? NOTHING absolutly nothing....at best its a useful device for accessing the internet...at worst its an expensive brick I'm stuck with for 2 years...as it is it is not a big fucking deal

I hate to make sweeping generalisations and call people names but.....but what the hell is wrong with some people?

So basically "Think different" is now totally untrue, since there's no thinking about the content left for the users and definitely nothing different since everything has to be the way Apple decides.

I know this decision is really about Apple trying to avoid potential lawsuits, but negative reaction and experience is still an experience that influences the way people think. Instead of using their omnipresent power and control on their platforms to do what they like and allow experiments and risky stuff (I mean in terms of design and ideas, not necessarily adult and religious content) while still keeping users, they choose to just be extra conservative with a basically very liberal false image.

If at all possible, I'd never ever want to talk about religion or politics ever. As a result, I could not care less if it is forbidden to make apps based around the subject.

I must be missing something, but I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Apple provides a service and they wont support certain things on it. If you're fine with that then ok, if you're not then buy from someone else.

teh_gunslinger:

erttheking:

teh_gunslinger:
And that's why I've been ranting about fucking Steve Jobs and Apple for neigh on 10 years.

Nice going, all you consumerist sheep who bought their products. Think different my ass. None of you ever thought an independent thought. You just wanted the shinies.

Right right, because I bought something that you don't approve of, I'm a sheep. Could you be any more insulting. God, sheep is turning into such a generic buzzword that it's slowly losing all meaning.

No, you're a sheep because you bought a terrible product that actively harms consumer electronics and the user.

My point is: Apples marketing is aimed at annoying hipster types that think they're unique snowflakes. They then buy the most closed of eco system available that basically allows only one way of doing anything. The Way of Jobs. That's why I call people sheep. Because they listen to obnoxious marketing. If they/you thought about it for more than a second you'd realise that Apple is actively harming the consumer.

Oh yeah, I'm a sheep because I have an Ipod, which I use on a regular basis and genuinely enjoy to have and "harms consumer electronics and the user" because they don't let everything on and they cost a little bit much. I couldn't even bring myself to read anymore after that beyond insulting first sentence of your post. When you want to actually debate like a civil Human being, come find me, until then later.

EDIT: Am I a sheep or am I a hipster? Make up your God damn mind!

weirdguy:

erttheking:

teh_gunslinger:
And that's why I've been ranting about fucking Steve Jobs and Apple for neigh on 10 years.

Nice going, all you consumerist sheep who bought their products. Think different my ass. None of you ever thought an independent thought. You just wanted the shinies.

Right right, because I bought something that you don't approve of, I'm a sheep. Could you be any more insulting. God, sheep is turning into such a generic buzzword that it's slowly losing all meaning.

That being said, Apple IS basically saying that they're going to be a nanny state now, so maybe you can see where people are coming from in this case?

either way it seems rather strange that they're now trying to close the barn door years after it would have made any difference, as if now they suddenly have standards or something

They're saying that they're not going to let some apps onto the app store based on their own judgement, but didn't people get angry at Valve for letting that crappy zombie game onto Steam? And considering how just about everyone who calls people who buy apple products "sheep" considering that I'm very content with my Ipod, you'll forgive me if I'm a little less than sympathetic towards them. It's not like Apple has a monopoly on computers, smart phones and tablets, there's plenty of others out there, and I like what I get from Apple. God, every single time I go onto the Escapist the less I want to be here, I only ever get insulted here for (not being a PC gamer/buying from Apple/not being an atheist/not jumping on the backs of video game companies for every last little mistake they make). Really, coming on here is slowly turning into a miserable experience.

Good to know they know their target audience: small kids and impressionable adults.

Quaxar:
And if you want to criticize a book? Do you have to found a religion?

Twister anyone?

OT: I kind of agree with McMillen, this is proberly going to get blown out of proportion but if theres one company that can afford to stay classy its Apple and that statment is anything but classy.

MUH PWECIOUS WITTLE FEELINGS!

THEY MIGHT GET HURT!

Hurr

God damn it Apple, every time I think you couldn't possibly get any more despicable you find a new way to blow me away

Scars Unseen:

If you want to criticize religion, write a book buy Android.

Edited for accuracy.

I find Apple's condescending nature offensive. Last(and only) product I bought from them was an iPod back in 2005. Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now(and I don't own a barge pole anyway)

Apple's more of a cult than a religion.

Oskuro:

#@$% you, Apple! Who are you to decide where the line is, or if it exists at all? I bought your overpriced hardware, so I am the one to decide if I want a fart App or a bouncy cock on it!

They are Apple, and this is nothing new for Apple. People knowingly buy their products anyway.

You know how people use the term "vote with your wallet?" This is the endgame.

TWEWER:
They don't want to put up with shitty apps or pretentious bullshit.

So they're going out of business?

But jokes aside, if they don't want "pretentious bullshit," why is it limited to games only?

erttheking:

Right right, because I bought something that you don't approve of, I'm a sheep. Could you be any more insulting. God, sheep is turning into such a generic buzzword that it's slowly losing all meaning.

Actually, it's because you're tacitly supporting a corporate culture of censorship and thought control.

Also, sheep lost all meaning ages ago. It didn't have meaning as far back as the eighties.

thesilentman:

Fixed. You could say that about Microsoft too. They aren't has freedom loving as people want them to think.

And when they were doing bad things, people actively called them on it. Their monopolistic behaviours and the like? People didn't make excuses.

The thing is, Microsoft isn't really the issue and it's not either-or. Criticising Apple is not an endorsement for Microsoft.

Milanezi:
as much as most books and movies do.

You had me until that point. I think you're overestimating the depth of the majority of the literary market. I'll repeat the same for film, too.

William McQuiston:

So... Are we to assume the line is drawn by a Congressional Republican? Because that's the only way I would think Drone+ and giving directions to abortion clinics crossed "the line."

Potter Stewart, the man behind the quote, was a centrist in his time. That alone would make many of his views far left in this day and age. Consider that the "Liberal Lion" of the SCOTUS who stepped down a couple years back was, at the time of appointment, a Republican appointed by a Republican.

Dryk:
It makes me sad that so many companies spend years taking risks and exploring new ideas... for the right to play it safe. Remember the 1984 ad? That ad is really awkward nowadays.

Never trust a corporation to have artistic integrity. The almighty dollar usually proves far more powerful an influence, and controlling the consumer to the greatest possible extent to maximize those dollar inflows is the preferred technique.

Game developers we (well, I can only speak for myself) respect like CD Projekt Red, Valve, Gearbox, and Derek Yu all have the potential to turn on us, just as Bioware lost their heart after being bought by EA.

Many artists sell out when they feel they have lost the ability to create great works, justifying the selling out by thinking that "this is for all the times when I sacrificed so much to produce something which gained me so little compensation". Warren Spector's move to Disney may well have followed such a thought.

This is partially why the corporate publisher system needs to be dismantled and game developers need to be funded directly by consumers. This won't create a utopian paradise, but it will help greatly.

Never trust a corporation.

Zachary Amaranth:

Milanezi:
as much as most books and movies do.

You had me until that point. I think you're overestimating the depth of the majority of the literary market. I'll repeat the same for film, too.

And you got me there, indeed I OVERestimated both markets. BUT, I was thinking of great respectable works which study the subject deeply before writing it down, not the usual bestseller that tends to be filled with "conspiracies" or "undeniable facts". Same goes for movies, even more so I dare say.

This has solidified my decision to buy an Android the next time I buy a phone.

erttheking:

weirdguy:

erttheking:

Right right, because I bought something that you don't approve of, I'm a sheep. Could you be any more insulting. God, sheep is turning into such a generic buzzword that it's slowly losing all meaning.

That being said, Apple IS basically saying that they're going to be a nanny state now, so maybe you can see where people are coming from in this case?

either way it seems rather strange that they're now trying to close the barn door years after it would have made any difference, as if now they suddenly have standards or something

They're saying that they're not going to let some apps onto the app store based on their own judgement, but didn't people get angry at Valve for letting that crappy zombie game onto Steam? And considering how just about everyone who calls people who buy apple products "sheep" considering that I'm very content with my Ipod, you'll forgive me if I'm a little less than sympathetic towards them. It's not like Apple has a monopoly on computers, smart phones and tablets, there's plenty of others out there, and I like what I get from Apple. God, every single time I go onto the Escapist the less I want to be here, I only ever get insulted here for (not being a PC gamer/buying from Apple/not being an atheist/not jumping on the backs of video game companies for every last little mistake they make). Really, coming on here is slowly turning into a miserable experience.

I won't call them sheep, even thought I don't dispute what the people who have responded to you are saying, I get that it is tiresome to read.

I'll try to be diplomatic here.

Apple has a very sound business strategy that allows it to succeed. It firmly controls its supply chain and decides pretty much everything that goes into its products. That aspect upsets some people.

On the topic of "sheep" it might not be palatable to hear...but there is a degree of truth to it.

I'm not one to judge people on what they want to purchase. If they want to go buy apple products, fine. However, you can discern aspects of the marketing from what you see consumers buying. What does an apple product look like? White/silver usually, sleek modern and generally aesthetically pleasing. A convenient piece of tech to use right? But it is also very simple to use... the big picture icons on tablets and on the macbooks I always see. Everything is streamlined... you not good with tech? doesn't matter! buy apple! Its easy to use! So now you have a lot of people buying your product who probably don't know as much as others might about technology and computers etc. There is no problem here..there is no rule saying that you need to be a computer expert to buy whatever you want. But it usually doesn't hurt to have some knowledge about it right?

Many people don't like Apple because it (and Steve Jobs) are heralded as such colossal innovators and trend setters of our generation, when it is not entirely true. They have taken ideas from Android and from lots of other places, yet they can get away with making such claims of innovation because they market their products to people who don't know much about computers/tablets/phones etc and just want something easy... and yes..."shiny" to use.

"Picaso had a saying, good artists copy, great artists steal, and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - Steve Jobs

Oh Crapple, you never cease to amaze me. Neither have you ever let me down when I needed a solid chuckle. I bought the first generation iPod Touch because I thought it was cool and I needed a music player. I still own it and it still plays when asked to.

Control freak indeed to limit what apps are available.

With that being said, I kindly demand you delete the source code and any distribution packages of the godawful iTunes, QuickTime and the vast majority of the software you write as they cross the line concerning stability, bloatware and general usability. To me using those is like being forced to listen to a religious zealot.

(If you want to reply saying that I'm under no obligation to use said software, then I failed to impart the sarcasm I intended)

I think this gets to be a pretty slippery slope, and (clearly) a controversial position for Apple to take. This kind of "we know better than you" attitude is ultimately what caused me to abandon Apple products altogether. I don't want a company making content choices about what I can and cannot have on my phone. Quality requirements are totally understandable, and I think that's probably a weakness of the Android eco-system. But I'll take some lower quality over getting to make my own choices about what's moral.

Personally, the "Go write a book" comment kinda infuriates me, a lot. It suggests that games, more than can't, shouldn't tackle complicated, controversial issues. As much as I hate to admit it, the AppStore eco-system accounts for a large part of gaming in the current gaming culture, and I really think this kind of "only non-sensical games can be our system" does more to hinder the medium than anything else than help Apple's case here.

I'm surprised that more people aren't bristling at the threat--the "if you get rejected and go to the press with it, it's not going to help you." I mean, that's pretty harsh. Beyond pretty harsh, that's borderline extortion harsh. They essentially imply that if you go to the press with a decision you don't agree with, things won't go well for you in the appeals panel. One can't help but wonder about future games submitted from the same developer -- does that veiled threat extend to other games from the same dev?

The whole policy smacks of ego and hubris. I think Apple will eventually regret taking such a hard lined stance.

Who writes books about se-
Oh wait.
image

But in all honesty, way to dismark creativity, apple. Boo fucking hoo, you have to deal with ameture hour when dealing with a technology that literally anyone can make something out of. Stop whining like a bunch of 2 year olds.

Vault101:
I regret not getting an android :(....I missed out on a snes emulator

Aye, you did. I much prefer playing Kirby Super Star Saga and soon to be Chrono Trigger than paying for whatever Apple shits out.

Also GBA emulator. Pokemon Emerald and Advance Wars baybee.

OT:

Whole reason I chose my android over an Iphone was because Apple seemed too controlling about what you could do with your phone. There ya go.

So you're going to let any old Joe shout bile in any forum of media other then games? You do know adults play games right? And that the media age of a game is in the 30s range right?

Games need to get the Trix bunny to do some advertisements. Have the commercial be "Trix are for kids, but games are for everyone, enjoy Mr. bunny"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here