League of Legends "Levels Up" eSports

League of Legends "Levels Up" eSports

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Recently Riot Games kicked off the third season of League of Legends with a major patch bringing a number of new features in addition to the normal balancing changes. This also coincides with an even greater push into the eSports arena with the League Championship Series. We got a chance to chat with Riot about what the changes will mean for players: professional, casual and everyone in-between.

The biggest difference for most folks will be the new League System. Previously, League of Legends relied on Elo, a numerical ranking system that's been used for competitive tracking in everything from chess to collectible card games. Your rise and fall in rating for wins and losses was based on how mathematically tough your opponents were in relation to your own ranking. However, the new League System looks to address some of the anonymity and perceived futility at being ranked say 10,032 out of a few hundred thousand. That's still 10,031 people ahead of you.

Now you'll be placed in much smaller ladders of 250 similarly skilled players. There are six tiers of these ladders and each tier is further separated into five divisions. The goal Riot explained was to try and give players a more bite size experience with similarly sized goals. Moving up a single position out of literally thousands of players doesn't mean much and leaves advancing to be among the best to be quite lofty, but battling your way to the top of your division is a much more immediate and obtainable goal. The system even prioritizes placing you in leagues with your friends, letting some rivalries form as you vie for the top spots. There's also been a push to bring some of the tension of playing out matches on a professional stage down to all skill levels. Whenever you reach the top of your division you'll go through a mini playoff of sort, win two out of three matches and you'll advance to the next division. If you're in the top division you'll play a best three out of five and promote into the next tier. The light at the end of that tunnel is the final tier, Challenger. Top ranked 5v5 teams in the Challenger Tier will have the opportunity to join other professional teams in the League Championship Series.

The other major facet of Season 3 has been an initiative to "level up eSports." Streaming has been snowballing in popularity lately, even at relatively non-peak hours there's still often in excess of 50,000 people watching fellow gamers play League of Legends on sites like Twitch.tv. So it's no surprise that there is a lot of focus going into not only making a better production of event streaming but also to deliver content on a more consistent basis. Every Thursday through Sunday Riot will be streaming matches between the top teams from North America and Europe. The hope is to bring a level of commitment and scheduling like that of Monday Night Football. Instead of a scattering of events you can tune in at specific times and expect to see games. There's been a lot of behind the scenes and unsung work going into taking these productions to the next level. Dedicated cameramen are training closely with commentators to predict where the action will be and what they'll want to focus on. Shout casters have been studying the work of ESPN casters in addition to practicing with improv classes and reviewing previous matches they've commentated on. What used to be a bit of a side labor of love for some is now becoming their full time position, and the eSports team at Riot has expanded from 4 personnel to 40.

Whether you're a dedicated competitive player who constantly watches streams to keep up on the latest meta changes or simply someone who enjoys the game as a whole, Season 3 brings a lot of value and entertainment to what's already the world's most played game, and Riot continues to push the envelope on what eSports could be.

My suggested change to make Pantheon completely overpowered was sadly turned down.

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The new changes for Season 3 are going to make ranked feel less like a tiny dot, and more like you're actively affecting what happens to you. Still won't help if your team has League's fun standard of ragers, trolls, leavers, griefers, and now report-spammers. Hopefully Tribunal keeps cleaning the game up so that ranked will be fun again.

Ranked has always been a broken feature to me in League... I don't think that will change with anything.

Ranked 1v1 is just as silly as Starcraft 2 4v4. League of Legends isn't a solo game like Starcraft 2 isn't really a big team game. Only if you play with a Ranked team are your matches truly balanced.

"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

bringer of illumination:
"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

I'm confused, I thought LoL was the biggest E Sports game in the world? I don't know what would classify a E Sports game though XD.

I guess this is good to hear. Maybe for the first time in gaming history, a video game will actually become a full time "sport" with the likes of Basketball (NBA), Baseball (MLB), Football (NFL), etc. That would be pretty sick, especially since pretty much anybody with enough time put into it, anybody can play and excel at LoL...IMO.

So yay.

bringer of illumination:
"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

Seeing how much cash puts into the prizes of some of their big tournies, I'm fairly sure you could call it an 'E-Sport'

bringer of illumination:
"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

Most played game in the world, one of the largest gaming prizes in the world, nuff said.

A Smooth Criminal:
Ranked has always been a broken feature to me in League... I don't think that will change with anything.

Ranked 1v1 is just as silly as Starcraft 2 4v4. League of Legends isn't a solo game like Starcraft 2 isn't really a big team game. Only if you play with a Ranked team are your matches truly balanced.

Uhh I was not aware that there was a ranked 1v1 in League. I think you mean "solo que", but even then that has nothing to do with it just being one player vs one player like in an RTS such as Starcraft.

Some notes:

Slycne:
Recently Riot Games kicked off the third season of League of Legends with a major patch bringing a number of new features in addition to the normal balancing changes. This also coincides with an even greater push into the eSports arena with the League Championship Series. We got a chance to chat with Riot about what the changes will mean for players: professional, casual and everyone in-between.

The biggest difference for most folks will be the new League System. Previously, League of Legends relied on Elo, a numerical ranking system that's been used for competitive tracking in everything from chess to collectible card games. Your rise and fall in rating for wins and losses was based on how mathematically tough your opponents were in relation to your own ranking. However, the new League System looks to address some of the anonymity and perceived futility at being ranked say 10,032 out of a few hundred thousand. That's still 10,031 people ahead of you.

Now you'll be placed in much smaller ladders of 250 similarly skilled players. There are six tiers of these ladders and each tier is further separated into five divisions. The goal Riot explained was to try and give players a more bite size experience with similarly sized goals. Moving up a single position out of literally thousands of players doesn't mean much and leaves advancing to be among the best to be quite lofty, but battling your way to the top of your division is a much more immediate and obtainable goal. The system even prioritizes placing you in leagues with your friends, letting some rivalries form as you vie for the top spots. There's also been a push to bring some of the tension of playing out matches on a professional stage down to all skill levels. Whenever you reach the top of your division you'll go through a mini playoff of sort, win two out of three matches and you'll advance to the next division. If you're in the top division you'll play a best three out of five and promote into the next tier. The light at the end of that tunnel is the final tier, Challenger. Top ranked 5v5 teams in the Challenger Tier will have the opportunity to join other professional teams in the League Championship Series.

- The current ranking system is decently efficient in 1v1 PvP, thus is used in most profesional games like chess, go and SC2. It is however quite less so in a 5v5 game and tbh Riot should be embarassed to use it; then again there has not been a better implementation in current games, I think Valve is working on one for DotA, but at the moment every ARTS game uses a symilar crap system.

The issue is however not technically hard to solve partially, and real improvements should be seen soon, or at least i hope it does.

- I would caution you with the wording of the article, it sounds like all of the above are innovations, when from what I am reading they are just copy pasting almost idem the implementation of SC2 released years ago. Missing some important decay like ELO decay.

Slycne:
The other major facet of Season 3 has been an initiative to "level up eSports."

Glad to see they are trying to improve the production. Seeing how last inhouse Riot tournament went amazingly poorly in that regard compared to last Valve's; not sure how i feel about Riot being that hands on with every aspect of it's game, but still a nice approach to watch develop.

Slycne:
Whether you're a dedicated competitive player who constantly watches streams to keep up on the latest meta changes or simply someone who enjoys the game as a whole, Season 3 brings a lot of value and entertainment to what's already the world's most played game, and Riot continues to push the envelope on what eSports could be.

As always, I would like to point out that your affirmation is contendable ( http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/10i3sx/so_you_thought_dota2_was_getting_large/ ). Not that it matters to me, I just play whatever ARTS for fun and even if number of players mattered I live in america and its unlikely that in either this continent or europe LoL will ever be surpassed in players. Just posting it here because it would seem like an actual game journalist work to research this, and you happen to have a couple people devoted to that.

As for the changes, i am glad to see more activate items, i think thats the biggest change for me this season and a step in the right direction. However LoL keeps being a distant fourth choice in ARTS, that i play just to socialize with friends.

So...they basically just copy pastaed SC2s ladder system that's been active since SC2 launched and are actin like this is some sort of innovation? About the only thing not directly copy pastaed was that tournament system to move up to a new league which could either be awesome or obnoxious.

On the plus side, SC2's ladder system is pretty awesome and its good to see Riot embrace the idea. Bein ranked 10,024 doesn't feel like a huge accomplishment (even if it is a pretty big deal at that point). Bein the number 1 ranked silver player, even if comparatively speakin is far worse than ranked 10,024, feels really good.

is'n't Madden the biggest E-Sport?

Well this is interesting in a way. Curious to see what the players will think of this. Might have to pop in on the forums every few months to get an idea.

shintakie10:
So...they basically just copy pastaed SC2s ladder system that's been active since SC2 launched and are actin like this is some sort of innovation? About the only thing not directly copy pastaed was that tournament system to move up to a new league which could either be awesome or obnoxious.

On the plus side, SC2's ladder system is pretty awesome and its good to see Riot embrace the idea. Bein ranked 10,024 doesn't feel like a huge accomplishment (even if it is a pretty big deal at that point). Bein the number 1 ranked silver player, even if comparatively speakin is far worse than ranked 10,024, feels really good.

Its Riot lol, the whole game is copy and pasted with slight changes.

JaceArveduin:

bringer of illumination:
"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

Seeing how much cash puts into the prizes of some of their big tournies, I'm fairly sure you could call it an 'E-Sport'

NameIsRobertPaulson:

bringer of illumination:
"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

Most played game in the world, one of the largest gaming prizes in the world, nuff said.

Teehee.

Oh you guys, it's like you WANT to make my points for me.

Riot didn't make an e-sports scene, they BOUGHT an e-sports scene.

They bullied their way into the scene with underhanded shit like buying exclusivity at events and bribing sponsors who sponsor LoL teams into not sponsoring teams in other MOBAs (They're still doing this by the way)

Several players have also been on the record that they play LoL solely because it's the easiest and biggest pay-check compared to any other game.

Also, the "biggest game in the world" thing is just objectively wrong.

Dota 1 has more matches played per year than LoL has had in all the time it has existed

bringer of illumination:
-snip-

This is standard buisness practices. Though you are also right that LoL is the easiest pay-check on the e-sports, not sure if the biggest for players and QUITE sure one of the shittiest for the community ( esp for modders & graphic artists, probably for casters, related sites, etc).

Also, it's not objectively wrong. I assume you are getting your info from the same source that i liked a couple of posts above, and on one hand we have a company (that has zero trust from me) claiming to be the biggest on totally biased and BS arguments VS a chineese DotA1 admin and almost for sure fanboy of Valve; neither deserves turst a priori and I would love the game journalist to do some journalist work and investigate facts, still journalism today doesn't seem to do that.

Tanakh:

bringer of illumination:
-snip-

This is standard buisness practices. Though you are also right that LoL is the easiest pay-check on the e-sports, not sure if the biggest for players and QUITE sure one of the shittiest for the community ( esp for modders & graphic artists, probably for casters, related sites, etc).

Also, it's not objectively wrong. I assume you are getting your info from the same source that i liked a couple of posts above, and on one hand we have a company (that has zero trust from me) claiming to be the biggest on totally biased and BS arguments VS a chineese DotA1 admin and almost for sure fanboy of Valve; neither deserves turst a priori and I would love the game journalist to do some journalist work and investigate facts, still journalism today doesn't seem to do that.

As a journalist, I take offense to that. When there isn't a single reliable fact in the industry, you are forced to go buy what is released to you, or present nothing at all. While the facts presented by Riot and Valve are hardly reliable, they are the only ones we can go on.

OT: It is nice to see the DOTA vs. LoL war tearing this thread up, as usual. If you think about it, it's not a lot different from the lead argument, Halo/COD vs. Dark/Demon Souls, with LoL being the former and DOTA the latter. The former claims the latter is only defended so religiously because of how difficult and obtuse the system is, while the latter claims the former is nothing but casual scrubs playing a game just because it's popular.

Tanakh:

bringer of illumination:
-snip-

This is standard buisness practices. Though you are also right that LoL is the easiest pay-check on the e-sports, not sure if the biggest for players and QUITE sure one of the shittiest for the community ( esp for modders & graphic artists, probably for casters, related sites, etc).

Also, it's not objectively wrong. I assume you are getting your info from the same source that i liked a couple of posts above, and on one hand we have a company (that has zero trust from me) claiming to be the biggest on totally biased and BS arguments VS a chineese DotA1 admin and almost for sure fanboy of Valve; neither deserves turst a priori and I would love the game journalist to do some journalist work and investigate facts, still journalism today doesn't seem to do that.

I can't see that I think that attempting to do a hostile takeover of the entire e-sports scene is or should be "standard business practices", never mind that even if they were, they are EXTRAORDINARILY poor business practices, need I remind you what happened to CGS?

Stuff like forcing team owners to sign contracts that say that they can't have teams for other games is just hostile bullshit that diminishes competition and in the end hurts the players by making Riot grow fat and lazy because they don't have any challengers.

I don't trust Riot as far as I can kick 'em, but from where I stand, I have no reason to doubt their numbers, the amount of matches played should be an easily verifiable number because, you know, it's run through a game client that almost certainly counts the number of matches

What I take issue with is that they down-right lie when they say their game is the biggest, because DOTA 1 is run through clients as well, and just one of those (The Chinese based 11 client) counted 4977975857 games in just one year, which is nearly 5 times the number of games of LoL that have been played since the game was released

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Tanakh:

bringer of illumination:
-snip-

This is standard buisness practices. Though you are also right that LoL is the easiest pay-check on the e-sports, not sure if the biggest for players and QUITE sure one of the shittiest for the community ( esp for modders & graphic artists, probably for casters, related sites, etc).

Also, it's not objectively wrong. I assume you are getting your info from the same source that i liked a couple of posts above, and on one hand we have a company (that has zero trust from me) claiming to be the biggest on totally biased and BS arguments VS a chineese DotA1 admin and almost for sure fanboy of Valve; neither deserves turst a priori and I would love the game journalist to do some journalist work and investigate facts, still journalism today doesn't seem to do that.

OT: It is nice to see the DOTA vs. LoL war tearing this thread up, as usual. If you think about it, it's not a lot different from the lead argument, Halo/COD vs. Dark/Demon Souls, with LoL being the former and DOTA the latter. The former claims the latter is only defended so religiously because of how difficult and obtuse the system is, while the latter claims the former is nothing but casual scrubs playing a game just because it's popular.

Hey now, I'm not attacking LoL as a game, at least not particularly, I've had a lot of fun with LoL, I just don't think it's anywhere NEAR interesting enough to watch to be an e-sport.

I'm just attacking Riot as a company because they're scumbags.

bringer of illumination:
I don't trust Riot as far as I can kick 'em, but from where I stand, I have no reason to doubt their numbers, the amount of matches played should be an easily verifiable number because, you know, it's run through a game client that almost certainly counts the number of matches

What I take issue with is that they down-right lie when they say their game is the biggest, because DOTA 1 is run through clients as well, and just one of those (The Chinese based 11 client) counted 4977975857 games in just one year, which is nearly 5 times the number of games of LoL that have been played since the game was released

I am not certain about the numbers, but was thinking about the conclusion, namely the "being the most played video game in the world" when we are working on a void. Only videogames that have "always online" components can even be compared, so that means Diablo III, WoW, HoN, DotA2... few others really, so they can should only say "the most played video game with always online components"... but doesn't look as sexy i guess.

NameIsRobertPaulson:
As a journalist, I take offense to that. When there isn't a single reliable fact in the industry, you are forced to go buy what is released to you, or present nothing at all. While the facts presented by Riot and Valve are hardly reliable, they are the only ones we can go on.

OT: It is nice to see the DOTA vs. LoL war tearing this thread up, as usual. If you think about it, it's not a lot different from the lead argument, Halo/COD vs. Dark/Demon Souls, with LoL being the former and DOTA the latter. The former claims the latter is only defended so religiously because of how difficult and obtuse the system is, while the latter claims the former is nothing but casual scrubs playing a game just because it's popular.

Well, isn't the "world biggest videogame" a PR stunt tough? As such i would think it might be wise to doublecheck at least the claims of chineese dota1 fanboys. Then again it just might be my ideas, like how it irks me that vitamins can be sold as a healthy option to eating right and stuff.... maybe i am just getting old.

As for the war... well, i hope you don't feel my post does that, i did said that both games have crappy elo systems and stated my reasons to belive so. The only reason i actually mentioned dota is because Gabe said recently he thinks his system (the usual one that everyone uses) is crap for team based games and they are working on options, but knowing valve that just means that hopefully at some point in the future they might get actually serious and start working on it.

Anyway, BBL, ill go to queue again in LoL.

In League of Legends, your ELO, or now your ranking, is not a measure of your individual skill. You could dominate in lane, but get another lane dominated harder and still lose. Instead, it's a measure of how well you work as a team with four people you don't know and are never going to see again. Does that help?

bringer of illumination:

Hey now, I'm not attacking LoL as a game, at least not particularly, I've had a lot of fun with LoL, I just don't think it's anywhere NEAR interesting enough to watch to be an e-sport.

I'm just attacking Riot as a company because they're scumbags.

53000 people (that doesn't include anyone spectating through the actual LoL client) were just watching Voyboy (top laner from Team Curse) playing Solo Queue. That is more people watching him playing every day games than almost every other E-sport tournament in the world, other than the DotA 2 International once a year and a few Starcraft II tournaments. I think it is safe to say you are wrong in it being uninteresting.

Also Riot isn't a company backed by some giant publisher or anything like that. League of Legends is their only game, with the company being started by a couple of relatively penniless gamers. That they have this much money to throw into E-sports shows how popular and loved the game is. Not to mention since they came onto the scene the interest in E-sports has just exploded. Sure at the moment 90% of the interest is focused upon LoL, but that doesn't mean that the huge interest they have created isn't good for E-sports as a whole. It is very likely that LoL might not be around in five years, but the legacy it will have left will help every other E-sport for years to come. Tournaments went from ~50k viewers into the millions, with dozens of other LoL tournaments getting 300k+. That interest will stick around after LoL is gone, which will help the industry.

Also I aint no blind fanboy, I was playing DotA before the All-stars version, back before the Frozen Throne expansion. I play DotA 2 almost as much as I play LoL. I love both games, the stupid war and the ridiculous, petty attacks each side makes upon the other is just sad and pathetic.

NameIsRobertPaulson:
snip

well to be fail services like Xfire and Raptr that track gameplay in hours, while far form perfect, all seem to agree that LOL is the biggest esport. in Xfire its almost double the 2nd place, it actually pushed WOW away a year ago. So claiming that LOL is the biggest e-sport since it is the most played game is quite fair.

Strazdas:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
snip

well to be fail services like Xfire and Raptr that track gameplay in hours, while far form perfect, all seem to agree that LOL is the biggest esport. in Xfire its almost double the 2nd place, it actually pushed WOW away a year ago. So claiming that LOL is the biggest e-sport since it is the most played game is quite fair.

While i would love to say that any time-stamping program normally would be a great tool to use to judge the amount of time a game has been played, I think something that the majority of people overlook is the fact that a game "running" only means that the client is active. Therefore, someone could easily be sitting with their client open, not playing at all, and it would be counted toward total "game time".

This would also apply to any time you're sitting their waiting for a patch, or any of the numerous times that thousands of players have been sitting in hour long ques just to log in to their account. All of those idle hours count toward a lot, which makes the statement that DOTA 2 has had more games played by a long shot far more viable a measuring tool.

The results would have to be based on actual in-game time, as unlike many online games that people play, you can't leave it idling in the background.

Edit: This is also coming from a casual, unbiased MOBA player.

Zeriah:

bringer of illumination:

Hey now, I'm not attacking LoL as a game, at least not particularly, I've had a lot of fun with LoL, I just don't think it's anywhere NEAR interesting enough to watch to be an e-sport.

I'm just attacking Riot as a company because they're scumbags.

Also Riot isn't a company backed by some giant publisher or anything like that. League of Legends is their only game, with the company being started by a couple of relatively penniless gamers.

Oh boy

You DO know that Riot is entirely owned by a TITANIC Chinese company Tencent Holdings right?

They are an Invest firm, ergo, they have literally NO interests beyond making money. At least EA has some roots in the actual game industry and reasons to want to keep the industry as a whole healthy, competitive and generally sound.

Tencent has no such reservations.

Rednog:

A Smooth Criminal:
Ranked has always been a broken feature to me in League... I don't think that will change with anything.

Ranked 1v1 is just as silly as Starcraft 2 4v4. League of Legends isn't a solo game like Starcraft 2 isn't really a big team game. Only if you play with a Ranked team are your matches truly balanced.

Uhh I was not aware that there was a ranked 1v1 in League. I think you mean "solo que", but even then that has nothing to do with it just being one player vs one player like in an RTS such as Starcraft.

Yes there is because League of Legends is balanced around having an organized team in the same way that Starcraft 2 is balanced around 1v1. If you're solo queuing in League then the game simply isn't balanced, the strangers you're grouped with aren't organized and you probably won't be able to play to your full potential.

Also, a Moba game IS a form of real time strategy...

bringer of illumination:
"League of Legend"
"E-Sports"

Did someone who isn't directly payed by Riot seriously just put those two things in the same sentence?

I saw this video a few days ago and facepalmed really hard:


SC2 being in the video is fine, but the only other game in this vid, is LoL. There are clips of casters from MLG and other stuff, but most of the clips are from LoL, and very VERY recent stuff as well. There are no clips from: Quake, Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, Halo, Brood War, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, or any other game that has been an established eSport for a very long time.

This article makes me facepalm harder than the video.
The ranking system is more or less identical to SC2's ladder system from what this describes. So LoL is doing a literal copy of another thing from Blizzard, no surprise there. The main thing that makes me facepalm, is LoL being considered the 'premier' eSport. Riot has literally been throwing large wads of cash at players and venues, and forced their way into the eSport crowd. Back when Brood War was still in it's early days, being an eSport really meant something. You saw small tournaments here and there with $1000 prize pool, then larger ones with $5000 prize pool, and maybe after a while, MLG would add it to the pro circuit, or you'd see a big event at Vegas. But now, Riot is "the new face of eSports" because a lot of people play it, and Riot throws enough money at the issue to make people interested.
Well I'm not convinced. I've seen "pro LoL players" and it isn't impressive at all.
At IEM Katowice, there was this "OMFG SO INCREDIBLE" play that one player did, where he played ring around the rosie with 2 enemy players and he had low hp. Yes it was a display of good control, but it wasn't "THAT WAS THE MOST IMPRESSIVE PLAY I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE". Its a single fucking unit. When you watch a single person control 2 parts of an army that move at different speeds, control their economy, deal with a harass at their base, AND set up the flank to surround their enemy, very few things can compare. Fuck, as hard as it is to watch, I respect the skill of Street Fighter and MvC players more. THAT is impressive control, where you have to have extremely fast reflexes and be able to tell what to do when to do it, and do it at the exact moment in order to win.

I know I'm ranting, but I just can't fucking stand LoL, and reading shit like this makes me hate it even more.

Edit: MOBAs are fun, I spent a lot of time playing DotA on WC3, and I plan on playing a lot of DotA2 when its out of beta. But I don't respect "pro" LoL at all. Sure the game is fun, but don't you dare tell me that it is as difficult as established eSports.

Reyalsfeihc:

Strazdas:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
snip

well to be fail services like Xfire and Raptr that track gameplay in hours, while far form perfect, all seem to agree that LOL is the biggest esport. in Xfire its almost double the 2nd place, it actually pushed WOW away a year ago. So claiming that LOL is the biggest e-sport since it is the most played game is quite fair.

While i would love to say that any time-stamping program normally would be a great tool to use to judge the amount of time a game has been played, I think something that the majority of people overlook is the fact that a game "running" only means that the client is active. Therefore, someone could easily be sitting with their client open, not playing at all, and it would be counted toward total "game time".

This would also apply to any time you're sitting their waiting for a patch, or any of the numerous times that thousands of players have been sitting in hour long ques just to log in to their account. All of those idle hours count toward a lot, which makes the statement that DOTA 2 has had more games played by a long shot far more viable a measuring tool.

The results would have to be based on actual in-game time, as unlike many online games that people play, you can't leave it idling in the background.

I agree that timecount is far from perfect, but its the best 3rd party unbiased check that tracks both games we can get at the moment. unelss you know some other way. patching usually dont apply due to patching being done in "launcher" (i hate launchers -.- ) and thus not tracked by the program, as the program tracks the specific game exe. yes you can leave it idling and some people were known to abuse it. you can even see it at streams, acocunt idling overnight. however we have no evidence to say that either side does this more than the other, so they may weigh eachother out.
last time i ever waited for login que for anything was like 6 years ago to a test server of Tibia. and that was because 50000 players were trying to login into 1000 slot server. do peopel get waitign ques in LOL or DOTA?

Regardless of it being an e-sports game I'll always still see SCII as the better e-sports thanks to Day9 and Husky along with WhiteRa.

People just need to stop this constant waging of war between different camps, be it Cod/BF or DotA/LoL or some other pair. It's getting very tiresome.

Slycne:

My suggested change to make Pantheon completely overpowered was sadly turned down.

They already tried that, don't you remember? Black Cleaver stacking Pantheon mid, instagibbing any and all regardless of your armor values.
It didn't work out that well.

Does that mean that this time there will be a wall separating the players from the Spectator screen, or is that still too advanced for Riot?

In other news, Valve is laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, first of all, that information on the number of Dota 2 matches is outdated. The number of concurrent players as well as number of matches played have been increasing at an accelerating rate since The International 2012 at the end of August, and since the information that was linked earlier, roughly another 70,000,000 matches have been played, and it's still in closed beta. It's fair to say that it's going to continue growing significantly, and actually comparing numbers with LoL is going to start looking more and more favorable to Dota 2 as time goes on. Additionally, when it comes to which game advances e-sports, it's no contest. Dota 2 is being built from the ground up to revolutionize e-sports with all of the built in tools available in the client for watching and broadcasting through Dota TV, and there is an outlet for community input with the workshop, allowing people to actually create content for the game that, if approved by Valve, is put up for sale inside the Dota 2 store, and the creators receive a portion of all sales.
Now, I haven't played anywhere near as much LoL as Dota 2 ever since I got into the beta about a year ago, but Riot doesn't seem to be focusing that much on improving the game mechanics to better facilitate the game as an e-sport. This ranking system is a step in the right direction, but it's by no means an original endeavor, and still only a temporary solution to the ranking/matchmaking problem all ARTS games are currently suffering from. It still just feels like Riot is simply throwing money at the problem to try and make it go away, rather than work on the underlying issues, and using the visibility they've gotten from all that spending to draw as much attention away from their competitors as they can. It's a desperation tactic, and I really don't see how it's going to work out for them in the long run. Yeah, you might remember LoL 10 years from now, but will you still be playing it 10 years from now, like millions of people play Dota 1? That's the real goal, and that's what Valve is trying to build with Dota 2.

bringer of illumination:

Zeriah:

bringer of illumination:

Hey now, I'm not attacking LoL as a game, at least not particularly, I've had a lot of fun with LoL, I just don't think it's anywhere NEAR interesting enough to watch to be an e-sport.

I'm just attacking Riot as a company because they're scumbags.

Also Riot isn't a company backed by some giant publisher or anything like that. League of Legends is their only game, with the company being started by a couple of relatively penniless gamers.

Oh boy

You DO know that Riot is entirely owned by a TITANIC Chinese company Tencent Holdings right?

They are an Invest firm, ergo, they have literally NO interests beyond making money. At least EA has some roots in the actual game industry and reasons to want to keep the industry as a whole healthy, competitive and generally sound.

Tencent has no such reservations.

It is called investors. They purchased a stake in Riot, for 400 million. The company grew to be worth that much on its own and still retains its independence and management. Outside of indie development and I suppose Valve, all gaming companies have investors. Try again, this time maybe respond to more than a snippet.

Also your hyperbole about Riot forcing exclusive contracts on all events and forcing pro team organizations to be be exclusive to LoL are also false. Outside of Riot's own finals, the three major organizations that showcase LoL are IEM, IPL and MLG. All of which show events other than LoL, it just so happens that LoL absolutely dwarfs all other games in viewership numbers. League of Legends also has a plethora of E-sport organizations who sponsor teams from other games; see Evil geniuses, Curse, Dignitas, Fear and a number of others.

Edit: The usual complaints I hear from LoL haters is that they bought their stake in E-sports by providing much of their own prize purse, whereas some other games rely on events to sponsor the purse. That is a fair (though irrelevant) point. If Riot didn't invest into E-sports by providing its own purse as they did, they might still be getting a poultry ~50k viewers like Starcraft II pulls during it's events. However (excluding The International which is also just a purse purely from Valve) without that input E-sports wouldn't have developed as it has and all we'd have are the shitty 50k viewers Starcraft pulls currently. How can anyone deny the millions that watched LoL live during its S2 finals, or that a single player can now pull 53000 people (not including anyone watching from the LoL client) just streaming random games on Twitch isn't a benefit to E-sports in the long run? The publicity alone is staggering. Where does this toxic insecurity that it is ruining E-sports come from?

We are looking at a future where E-sports could be televised, where colleges and universities offer scholarships to gamers like they do Athletes, competitive leagues like the NFL, NBA, NRL etc. League of Legends will have been huge part of why that was possible, by bringing E-sports to the public eye in the West (like Stacraft did to people in the East and Counter Strike/Quake/Unreal Tournament for starting it all). That is good for E-sports no matter how you look at it.

Zeriah:

bringer of illumination:
Snippety snappety

It is called investors. They purchased a stake in Riot, for 400 million. The company grew to be worth that much on its own and still retains its independence and management. Outside of indie development and I suppose Valve, all gaming companies have investors. Try again, this time maybe respond to more than a snippet.

Try again?

I find it hard to guess what you mean, you said "Riot isn't a companay backed by some giant publisher or anything like that", and I find that statement to be false, not only because I very much think that a giant Chinese investment firm qualifies as "anything like that" but also because I'd argue that it is in fact, worse.

Zeriah:
Also your hyperbole about Riot forcing exclusive contracts on all events and forcing pro team organizations to be be exclusive to LoL are also false. Outside of Riot's own finals, the three major organizations that showcase LoL are IEM, IPL and MLG. All of which show events other than LoL, it just so happens that LoL absolutely dwarfs all other games in viewership numbers. League of Legends also has a plethora of E-sport organizations who sponsor teams from other games; see Evil geniuses, Curse, Dignitas, Fear and a number of others.

Ha, yeah no.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/zf6bg/dont_listen_to_riot_the_lol_team_exclusivity/
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/331199144?t=108m


Riot went back on the exclusivity contracts (For teams) because they saw a giant fucking PR disaster brewing after some Team owners (Including EG and Dignitas) blew the whistle on them, then they burned the evidence and claimed it never happen. But how would it look if nobody outside of Riot had spoken up? I find it hard to believe that Riot would have nixed that rule if that was the case.

You also seem to be a bit confused, at events, Riot buys exclusivity as far as MOBAs are concerned, they don't have any interest in pushing Starcraft or Black Ops out, because they don't overlap. But do you really think MLG refuses to run a circuit for any other MOBA because there's no viewership? I don't think so buddy, at events like Dreamhack DOTA 2 got perfectly respectable numbers, and it isn't even out of Beta, so the playerbase is still limited, so I'd have to say, no.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you mention the exact events that Riot has or has had exclusivity events with as examples against it. IEM is the only one of the 3 that has added other MOBAs to their circuit. IPL and MLG still only promote LoL.

I also never said "All events" that is pure conjecture from your part and I frankly don't appreciate it.

bringer of illumination:

Zeriah:

bringer of illumination:
Snippety snappety

It is called investors. They purchased a stake in Riot, for 400 million. The company grew to be worth that much on its own and still retains its independence and management. Outside of indie development and I suppose Valve, all gaming companies have investors. Try again, this time maybe respond to more than a snippet.

Try again?

I find it hard to guess what you mean, you said "Riot isn't a companay backed by some giant publisher or anything like that", and I find that statement to be false, not only because I very much think that a giant Chinese investment firm qualifies as "anything like that" but also because I'd argue that it is in fact, worse.

Zeriah:
Also your hyperbole about Riot forcing exclusive contracts on all events and forcing pro team organizations to be be exclusive to LoL are also false. Outside of Riot's own finals, the three major organizations that showcase LoL are IEM, IPL and MLG. All of which show events other than LoL, it just so happens that LoL absolutely dwarfs all other games in viewership numbers. League of Legends also has a plethora of E-sport organizations who sponsor teams from other games; see Evil geniuses, Curse, Dignitas, Fear and a number of others.

Ha, yeah no.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/zf6bg/dont_listen_to_riot_the_lol_team_exclusivity/
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/331199144?t=108m


Riot went back on the exclusivity contracts (For teams) because they saw a giant fucking PR disaster brewing after some Team owners (Including EG and Dignitas) blew the whistle on them, then they burned the evidence and claimed it never happen. But how would it look if nobody outside of Riot had spoken up? I find it hard to believe that Riot would have nixed that rule if that was the case.

You also seem to be a bit confused, at events, Riot buys exclusivity as far as MOBAs are concerned, they don't have any interest in pushing Starcraft or Black Ops out, because they don't overlap. But do you really think MLG refuses to run a circuit for any other MOBA because there's no viewership? I don't think so buddy, at events like Dreamhack DOTA 2 got perfectly respectable numbers, and it isn't even out of Beta, so the playerbase is still limited, so I'd have to say, no.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you mention the exact events that Riot has or has had exclusivity events with as examples against it. IEM is the only one of the 3 that has added other MOBAs to their circuit. IPL and MLG still only promote LoL.

I also never said "All events" that is pure conjecture from your part and I frankly don't appreciate it.

Funny you accuse me of conjecture but that is all you have in regards to exclusive contracts on events? League of Legends definitely does compete with Starcraft II by the way, as you can see by all the insecure Starcraft fans in this thread. They don't force E-sport teams to to be exclusive to LoL (even if what this guy said was true and they considered it, which he showed no proof of might I add) and they are still an independent company with its own management, that happens to have share holders. I really fail to see your points whatsoever.

But keep ignoring all the good they have done for E-sports, real classy buddy. I guess I shouldn't expect anything more out of a guy with a Trollface avatar.

 

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