New Evidence Clears Up How Dinosaurs Died

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New Evidence Clears Up How Dinosaurs Died

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The theory that dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid has gained more legitimacy.

The theory that an asteroid impact near Chicxulub, Mexixo helped to cause the Creataceous-Tertiary extinction event (K-T) that wiped out the dinosaurs has gained major support from a report out of the University of California at Berkeley. The researchers studied volcanic ash at Chicxulub and in Montana, at a site with a huge number of dinosaur fossils from the estimated impact period. Radiometric analysis says that the impact and the K-T happened no more than 33,000 years apart. Radiometric dating lets scientists estimate ages based on the decay of materials - this case, potassium - in the soil. The extinction date we now have is accurate to within 11,000 years, and is the climax of nearly a million years of dinosaur decline set off by climate change.

"We've shown the impact and the mass extinction coincided as much as one can possibly demonstrate with existing dating techniques," said Paul Renne, one of the researchers. As to the timing of the impact and the extinction, Renne said that "the impact was the final straw that pushed Earth past the tipping point. We have shown that these events are synchronous to within a gnat's eyebrow, and therefore the impact clearly played a major role in extinctions, but it probably wasn't just the impact."

What set off the decline of the dinosaurs was dramatic climate swings in the million years before the Chicxulub impact, possibly combined with volcanic eruptions which releasing huge amounts of sulfur into the atmosphere. "These precursory phenomena made the global ecosystem much more sensitive to even relatively small triggers, so that what otherwise might have been a fairly minor effect shifted the ecosystem into a new state." Some scientists, like some gamers, had been rethinking the role of dinosaurs in the extinction event - and whether or not a simple impact was enough to wipe out such resilient groups of species. The new model serves as a synthesis which may satisfy both parties, but will likely ignite a fierce round of scientific debate.

Source: Live Science
Image: Don Davis

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You know, I don't think I have ever heard of the place call Mexixo.

so they finally nailed it down. interesting.
they are hiding the real truth our evolutionary ancestors invented bacon, from that moment on the dinosaurs were doomed.

Such resilient groups of species? Haden't most of the Dinosaurs already died off before the asteroid hit?

I've always been a follower of this theory since I was young so this news makes me very happy.

So it wasn't just global warming caused by dinosaurs farting and breathing? Dear God, I have to tell Al Gore!

Huh, I guess Mr. Freeze was wrong.

DVS BSTrD:
Such resilient groups of species? Haden't most of the Dinosaurs already died off before the asteroid hit?

I don't believe so, dramatic climate shifts were running riot but we're talking about a massive group of critters here, as far as I know many were going fairly strong, especially dem Theropods. After the asteroid hit most things over 10 foot high snuffed it due to enviromental pressures, all the iddy biddy dino's either evolved or died out as is normal in nature. Don't hold me on this...

DVS BSTrD:
Such resilient groups of species? Haden't most of the Dinosaurs already died off before the asteroid hit?

That's a matter of some (rather endless) discussion, but the cretacious period had a lot of dinosaurs. They had some seriously large species, and generally the bigger the species gets, the better the circumstances have been. The average world temperature was 10 degrees higher and there were temperate forests near the South Pole of the time.
At the same time, by then, continents had already ripped themselves apart from the 'mother-continent' Pangeae that once contained all land on the planet in an uninterupted landmass. So land dinosaurs couldn't spread so easily anymore, at the same time that created evolutionary niches. The dinosaurs of the south pole for instance were unique.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

LysanderNemoinis:
So it wasn't just global warming caused by dinosaurs farting and breathing? Dear God, I have to tell Al Gore!

That makes no sense, at all, whatsoever.

If you want to rip at something it would be climate denialists, because that group and creationists have a big overlap in membership, and are about equally adept at denying any facts that don't fit their story.

Blablahb:

DVS BSTrD:
-Snip-
[quote="LysanderNemoinis" post="7.400574.16466121"]So it wasn't just global warming caused by dinosaurs farting and breathing? Dear God, I have to tell Al Gore!

That makes no sense, at all, whatsoever.

If you want to rip at something it would be climate denialists, because that group and creationists have a big overlap in membership, and are about equally adept at denying any facts that don't fit their story.

One top of that methane releases from animals is a major contributor to the global warming we have now (it might be considered by scientist the largest contributor but don't quote me on that) methane is 17x more damaging to global warming than CO2.

lets kill all cows immediately. moar steak.

i have serious doubts that global warming is due to anything more than the warming up after the last ice age progressing, maybe you can argue human can nudge that temp up but the earth has been warming and freezing off and on for 100s of millions of years, we even had a mini ice age during the middle ages maybe due to a moderate meteor impact at that time.

our historic understanding of weather is basically the last 200 years. it is rather laughable that we can claim so much understanding of our role in such a utterly chaotic system as our planets ecosystems and its temperature swings.

and any amount of cow farts and car exhaust pales in comparison to a small planet sized chunk of rock slamming into you liquifying the surface of the planet and cause massive tidal waves that wipe out whole coastlines. and kick off a planetwide volcanic active streak, plunging the planet into ice age for 10,000s of years until our fairly recent era.

also you local weather is nothing more than guesswork and probabilities of what might happen because we simply cannot understand weather systems, global currents, winds, butterfly farts in china and all that.

but we got scientists that will claim "manmade" global warming without any data to back that up since the chemicals you would expect to see as indicators of that are not in concentrations that prove anything.

it was the 1970s that saw science claiming we were all sinking into another ice age was not until the 1980s we apparently maybe cooking ourselves to death, maybe we should start understanding that short term ups and downs are not long term global trends.

when we get studies that are falsified from the united nations to prove global warming why fudge the data if the data was there? the data was not there so they puffed the temperature reports from all over the world by several degrees. then claimed some software glitch that did it or something when found out.

so concerned about co2 and whatnot? plant some trees go out somewhere far out plant a ton of trees be fricking johnny appleseed.

i thought by 2020 we were all going to be underwater or something anyway was that that the old school worse case, apparently the antarctic ice sheet is about gone costal cities are slowly being submerged, and as far as we know the earth was always going to melt its poles as it warmed back up, who to say it was still not warming back up? oh wait i guess our 200 years or so of accurate temperature data when 1000s or 10,000 of years generally mark rather wild ups and downs within the general temperature trends.

general pattern earth warms up earth cools down, occasionally a super volcano or meteor pops a suprise ice age now and again, but the earth has an amazing ability to balance itself after planetary disasters and is constantly working to achieve balance it seems to have built in thermal triggers that keep it from getting too cold or too warm when it goes one way or the other.

and it will keep doing all that weither we are here or not shockingly. and if history is a judge we could even nuke the hell out of the planet and it would recover under its own means if we were so possessed.

cerebus23:
To sum up: No, we are not making an ice age happen.

Yes, I think you've made that point succinctly. Rather a good grasp of things, I would say. There have been some record storms lately, though. If, as you say, humanity doesn't nudge very much in comparison to the planet's natural weather cycles, you might concede that there is SOME effect? I don't believe the doomsayers, but I believe that some things do get set in motion and make life just a bit harder sometimes.

Alright. Now listen to Sagan already and lets put eggs in different baskets. Colony ships, come on, come on!

interesting, so life did evolve again after the dinosaurs

does that mean alien species might be dinosaur like? if that's an earlier evolutionary step that works

it could also explain the scavenger nature of many animals if we evolved from what is essentially an apocolypse

FalloutJack:

cerebus23:
To sum up: No, we are not making an ice age happen.

Yes, I think you've made that point succinctly. Rather a good grasp of things, I would say. There have been some record storms lately, though. If, as you say, humanity doesn't nudge very much in comparison to the planet's natural weather cycles, you might concede that there is SOME effect? I don't believe the doomsayers, but I believe that some things do get set in motion and make life just a bit harder sometimes.

I seriously get the impression that most humans just buy into that oh well you all got here the rest of the universe can just take the rest of eternity off since we are the bright little centers of the universe. all of creation just stopped at the moment the first homo something became self aware.

sure i can somewhat maybe buy into the idea that all the heat we generate can nudge the temp of the planet up possibly, but what is to say we are any worse than 200 foot long reptiles or w/e dinosaurs are this week, chewing down millions of tons of vegetation and farting all day. nevermind what a t rex doody must have been like.

quite possibly you can argue that any uber successful species can have a massive impact on the biosystems of the planet be they dinosaurs or humans or w/e comes after us.

it is clear that we have altered many ecosystems that change local areas drastically, 100 years ago draining swamps was good, less mosquitoes and all that land back, after all this time we finally click into the fact that swamps are hurricane and tropical storm buffers and actually weaken and help kill storms before they come onland, absorb the stormswells like natural sponges and so on, and all that swamp clearing puts new orleans in way more danger than it already is in being physically below sea level.

can see the same thing with floods and damming rivers, forest fires not allowing forest fores to burn out scrub brush causes disasters when there is a fire, but many years eco people fought hard against controlled burns and in those areas when wildfires broke out countless property damage and lives lost.

alot of seemingly good intentioned eco movements are very bad for the environment, and especially where there is all this money involved in research, you arent going to get a grant for bucking the popular trends in pop culture science simple as that.

so until the current trend reverses and we see suddenly recovering ice shelves and what not over a period of years will anyone other than global warming researchers get a penny of that tuition/government money. if that happens at all probably will since everything goes in cycles. and we can flip flop to the ice age is going to kill us all burn a tree today campaign.

so yes i tend to give way more attention to the scientists that come out against global warming, most interesting one is the founder of the weather channel that insists that is all smoke and mirrors, simply because there really is no incentive for them to buck the general mood, no financial incentive, some of the public buys into man man global warming well enough and probably a good chunk of them some version of global warming, so not like many people will even bother to listen to them.

express any doubt about global warming as a thing and your generally met with shock and horror after all.

Gaias:
You know, I don't think I have ever heard of the place call Mexixo.

Funny, my religion prevents me from entertaining the notion that a place called 'Mexico' even exists.

I've heard of dinosaurs before. Did not Jesus wage a war against the Muslims and the Romans riding laser-equipped dinosaurs?

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cerebus23:

express any doubt about global warming as a thing and your generally met with shock and horror after all.

You speak the truth, kind sir.

Too bad we have to pull conspiracy-level shrouds of silence over anything until there's new scientific proof, which currently drips in only to go poof in the heated debated about what to do concerning something we have but very little to absolutely no power over anyway.

We are too many, yes. And we have sinned severely - we drained lakes the size of some countries to get crops growing where they otherwise wouldn't have grown - and we killed those lakes and everything around it. We built dams to flood entire valleys, and we're still polluting shit like there's no tomorrow. The countries we rely on the most to produce whatever crap we fancy as cheaply as possible destroy their share of nature like they just don't care.

Somehow, I can't shake the feeling the whole CO2 drama is but a cult to press rather elaborate wealth transfer schemes into motion that will, inevitably, only speed up the process of things going to shit, as they are absolutely inefficient at solving the problems they claim to address proper. Did you know that a large portion of vegans are actually believing their enlightened choice might actually save the one world we got because we'd need another world to place and feed the planetload of humans we're getting because we breed like rabbits?

Islands will eventually get flooded, and there's just nothing we can do about it. People have settled there and given the places names and built villages and towns and cities on them, but nature doesn't care about any of that.

There are still scientists eager to serve truth and promote the, y'know, general striving for knowledge and enlightenment stance, but they are, indeed, met with a frosty and harsh climate that will all too readily see them burning in hell fire, wearing dunce caps. Science these days, only happens when it's being funded properly. The unnatural selection already happens at the funding stage, and you just plain wouldn't believe what insane propaganda pieces get funded these days. It's a shame.

The Lugz:
interesting, so life did evolve again after the dinosaurs

Not exactly. Dinosaurs weren't the only species on the planet. They were just the species that died off because they can't control their body heat, hence they freeze to death in cold climates. The meteor impact didn't wipe off all traces of life on the planet, it just modified the planet's climate to be cold enough so dinosaurs couldn't survive. But mammals, including proto-humans, did.

ShakerSilver:
Huh, I guess Mr. Freeze was wrong.

The asteroid theory is used to explain what caused the ice age. One big explosion on one side of the planet doesn't kill all the dinosaurs on the other side, that's silly.

"New Evidence Clears Up How Dinosaurs Died

The theory that dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid has gained more legitimacy."

*sigh*

Those two sentences are very different.

Gaias:
You know, I don't think I have ever heard of the place call Mexixo.

It's just south of North Amerixa.

I still think civilization grew to be advanced, we created the dinosaurs, and they escaped from a lab. They got out of control and the last resort was to create and set off some kind of bomb. Thus wiping out not only the dinosaurs we created, but us as well. Although somehow we survived and are rebuilding up to the technological point we were once at.

New discovery! More of the same happened!

Meh. This isn't a discovery. Just a "Yep, that happened."

poiumty:
Not exactly. Dinosaurs weren't the only species on the planet. They were just the species that died off because they can't control their body heat, hence they freeze to death in cold climates. The meteor impact didn't wipe off all traces of life on the planet, it just modified the planet's climate to be cold enough so dinosaurs couldn't survive. But mammals, including proto-humans, did.

Dinosaurs are a clade of the Chordate phylum, not a species. Proto-humans, and, in fact, great apes, did not exist in the Cretaceous period.

poiumty:
The asteroid theory is used to explain what caused the ice age. One big explosion on one side of the planet doesn't kill all the dinosaurs on the other side, that's silly.

The "ice age" most people (including Mr. Freeze) refer to is the one that has been going on for about two and a half million years, again, long, long after the Cretaceous. A meteor impact would not have caused an ice age; if anything, the greenhouse gases would have caused an increase in global temperature. There is some speculation that the impact could have caused a "nuclear winter" scenario, but even this would not have caused a geologically significant period of global cooling.

poiumty:
Not exactly. Dinosaurs weren't the only species on the planet. They were just the species that died off because they can't control their body heat, hence they freeze to death in cold climates. The meteor impact didn't wipe off all traces of life on the planet, it just modified the planet's climate to be cold enough so dinosaurs couldn't survive. But mammals, including proto-humans, did.

To add to what llafnwod said, not all dinosaurs died as a result of the meteor. Birds are dinosaurs.

cerebus23:

FalloutJack:
[quote="cerebus23" post="7.400574.16467196"]To sum up: No, we are not making an ice age happen.

sure i can somewhat maybe buy into the idea that all the heat we generate can nudge the temp of the planet up possibly, but what is to say we are any worse than 200 foot long reptiles or w/e dinosaurs are this week, chewing down millions of tons of vegetation and farting all day. nevermind what a t rex doody must have been like.

Seriously, do you think that's what climate change is? 'All the heat we generate can nudge the temp of the planet up'?

You seriously need to do some more reading about this before you have any more opinions on the subject.

Scorpid:

One top of that methane releases from animals is a major contributor to the global warming we have now (it might be considered by scientist the largest contributor but don't quote me on that) methane is 17x more damaging to global warming than CO2.

Be that as it may, there should be about 200 times more CO2 in the air than methane, last I heard methane contributes about 28% to global warming, which still makes it the second largest contributor. There's a good discussion on it here: http://chriscolose.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/methane-and-co2/

If you feel interested, you can read some about how scientist are trying to make cattle less methane producing, turns out that natural free range grass grazing cows are actually producing more methane than the corn eating cattle, but that free range cattle help a number of other environmental problems. As always the issue is never straight forward.
http://grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/

"These precursory phenomena made the global ecosystem much more sensitive to even relatively small triggers, so that what otherwise might have been a fairly minor effect shifted the ecosystem into a new state."

A perfect verdant valley filled with dinosaurs. and then a little prehistoric gopher wearing a troll mask came out of it's burrow and farted. And the entire valley caught fire and everything died. Go Mammals.

All i could think after i read that.

"within a gnat's eyebrow"

That's such a scientist way of phrasing something. My old electronics professor would use it all the time with his thick Scottish accent to describe everything.

Headdrivehardscrew:
Somehow, I can't shake the feeling the whole CO2 drama is but a cult to press rather elaborate wealth transfer schemes into motion that will, inevitably, only speed up the process of things going to shit, as they are absolutely inefficient at solving the problems they claim to address proper.

I love this sentence. It sums up everything about you and cerebus (and his lack of capital letters or proper sentences) perfectly.

Who has the most to gain by there not being global warming? Companies who pollute and destroy our environment and want to get away with it since it's cheaper than not doing so. Who has the most to gain by there being global warming? Recycling centers? That's about the only one who really gains something at all, by being in business.

It comes down to this. If every shred of scientific evidence and the eyeball effect (just look outside and see how fucked up weather has gotten in the past 30 years, compared to hundreds of years before that) is correct, global warming is real. As individuals, it takes maybe an extra few seconds here and there to recycle, driving a more efficient car is good for your wallet as well, so there's a benefit there even without taking into account global warming, and the only downside is such a small bit of extra taxes for a town/city to handle recycling, that it's meaningless. And btw, those centers employ people, something sorely needed right now anyway.

On the flip side, if we're wrong, what's the damage for being safe and trying to prevent it right now? We....cost some companies extra money? Oh no, the horror! A few of the wealthiest people alive get a tiny drop less money (and no, that doesn't trickle down, as they still need the same workers to produce anything and in fact, inspectors are given jobs that wouldn't exist otherwise, so it actually helps the middle class, something else we need).

Dinosaur instrumentality project.

I really hope Sarah Palin hears about this and pays attention. She stated (publicly and on several occasions) that we were running around with Dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, which is when the world was 'created'. She seems to get her history 'facts' from the Flintstones.

And people still vote for her.

Scorpid:

Blablahb:

DVS BSTrD:
-Snip-

That makes no sense, at all, whatsoever.

If you want to rip at something it would be climate denialists, because that group and creationists have a big overlap in membership, and are about equally adept at denying any facts that don't fit their story.

One top of that methane releases from animals is a major contributor to the global warming we have now (it might be considered by scientist the largest contributor but don't quote me on that) methane is 17x more damaging to global warming than CO2.

It still doesn't make sense. It assumes that dinosaurs produced methane, which we have no evidence of(Methane is produced mostly by ruminant animals, which are all mammals, by bacteria in their digestive process, which we don't know even existed then, and even if they did we don't know if herbivore dinosaurs used this bacteria in their digestion.

I thought we cleared this up almost two decades ago. weSaySo did it.

DiamanteGeeza:
I really hope Sarah Palin hears about this and pays attention. She stated (publicly and on several occasions) that we were running around with Dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, which is when the world was 'created'. She seems to get her history 'facts' from the Flintstones.

And people still vote for her.

That's because in America, science isn't a serious thing.

DiamanteGeeza:
I really hope Sarah Palin hears about this and pays attention. She stated (publicly and on several occasions) that we were running around with Dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, which is when the world was 'created'. She seems to get her history 'facts' from the Flintstones.

And people still vote for her.

I'm no fan of Sarah Palin but serious? http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/newsquotes.asp
And no one votes for her anymore, she hasn't ran for office since after her VP run five years ago.

tl;dr

Fine, I'm kidding. But...is it weird that the first thing I thought about when I read this was of how Disneyworld was going to have to remodel Dinosaurland or whatever their call it inside Animal Kingdom? Yeah, I don't know why that was my first reaction either...

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