Higgs Boson Points to End of Whole Universe

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Futurama was right?! Holy crap. Well maybe not really but who knows for certain. For anyone who's wondering I'm talking about the episode where Bender the professor and Fry see the universe be born and die a few times when they are going through time and the only difference is everything's like 10ft higher than it was before.

Hasido:

mateushac:
Hey, if there really is an expiration date for the universe, and assuming the cycles in which the universe is redone are somewhat constant, doesn't that make the "computer simulation" theory way more awesome? (with iterations and such)

Captcha: Forget This
Let me dream, Captcha, will you?!

Its not the end of the universe, its just the next update and the programmers are starting to implement it (on a ridiculous timescale)! talk about vaporware.

OT: I personally like this end of the universe scenario more than most, because at least something functional is left.

Maybe they are just simulating stuff through 1,000 iterations and gathering data on the outcomes

If we beat the new universe with our old universe walking cane can scare it off our lawn?

I wonder if that is how our universe started. And it is just one endless loop of universes popping out of nowhere and destroying the old one every dozen billion years or so.

If this is true that means... WAS FUTURAMA CORRECT!? After our Universe dies a new one will just appear completely identical to ours? And it will always happen in an endless loop? Only each time the universe will be 5 feet lower then the last???

I have my own completely nonsensical, uneducated system of evaluating scientific advances by approximating how close a discovery will get us to FTL and this is up here.

God speed scientists, god speed.

This is actually one of the most optimistic possible outcomes for our universe that scientists have put forward. Before the two basic models were:
1) The universe will continue to expand until everything is so for apart that for all intents and purposes there will be nothing in the entire universe.
and
2) The universe will collapse in on itself and either stay that way or re-big bang.
Edit: there are more but I'm not going into all that, there's just too much going on and I'm a bit rusty on some of this stuff.

In my opinion this model is much happier than either of these. Just imagine that humanity manages to outlive Earth; that we or some other form of life manages to endure and make it to the creation of a new universe. The expansion would be incredibly slow. Light years are nothing when you consider the size of the universe, and it will be much bigger by the time anything like this could happen. Now think of all the advances to technology in the past few decades. Imagine what kind of technology might exist a few billion years from now if someone/thing somehow manages to survive. If you can imagine this far, it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that just maybe some form of intelligent life would be prepared and possibly find a way to move from the old universe to the new.

It's a long shot but if this theory is true we just might have a chance of avoiding the complete extinction of every species that ever has or will exist anywhere in the universe. That's more than we had before, and that makes me happy. Please tell me if you have relevant information on any of the ideas I have put forward. I'm not a professional scientist, just an enthusiast, and I could have something wrong.

Kuilui:
Futurama was right?! Holy crap. Well maybe not really but who knows for certain. For anyone who's wondering I'm talking about the episode where Bender the professor and Fry see the universe be born and die a few times when they are going through time and the only difference is everything's like 10ft higher than it was before.

That's a different theory known as the Big Crunch; I think, it's been a while. I mentioned it in my more in depth post, but basically the difference is with the big crunch you have just one universe that expands and contracts, rather violently, but with this new theory a new universe is created inside an old universe and expands, destroying the old universe as it expands to fill the same space.

rhizhim:
well, thats shit.
might as well stop searching for a second earth..

Why? We'll still get billions of years of use out of it.

And if the human race is still alive in billions of years, we might find a way around this. Hell, if we're still around in billions of years, we'll be fucking Time Lords so we can live outside of space-time.

Assuming that physicists in 150 years aren't looking at this theory and laughing the way we look at what people thought about the universe in the mid-to-late 1800s

Ya, actually this seems pretty optimistic. We've always thought the universe would end someday, at least this way it'll pave the way for a new one.

I'd prefer the Big Freeze to this outcome; there's no way you could ever make me feel happy about my universe being erased to make room for a universe for xenos.

Also why is it that scientists always have some dark prediction for the future? "Oh, the universe will keep expanding until it's, for all intents and purposes, empty." "No, it'll collapse into nothing." "You're both wrong. Another universe will erase it and take it's place." Why can't we have a "Everything remains the same" option?

kael013:

Also why is it that scientists always have some dark prediction for the future? "Oh, the universe will keep expanding until it's, for all intents and purposes, empty." "No, it'll collapse into nothing." "You're both wrong. Another universe will erase it and take it's place." Why can't we have a "Everything remains the same" option?

Um... because reality? This new one really isn't all that depressing, but if you just want to be told what you want to hear don't look to science. There are quite a few organizations out there that will, but not science because science really doesn't care what anyone thinks of it. Science is a badass.

If there is one thing i fear, its not existing....jesus someone build an inter universe transporter or something...i'm no scientist...

It's amazing that we keep coming to all these conclusions based on what little evidence we see. We can't even really travel through space yet and we already think we know exactly how the universe began, works and ends. It's like hearing a shut-in talk about the nuances of socializing at parties.

Zombie Sodomy:

kael013:

Also why is it that scientists always have some dark prediction for the future? "Oh, the universe will keep expanding until it's, for all intents and purposes, empty." "No, it'll collapse into nothing." "You're both wrong. Another universe will erase it and take it's place." Why can't we have a "Everything remains the same" option?

Um... because reality? This new one really isn't all that depressing, but if you just want to be told what you want to hear don't look to science. There are quite a few organizations out there that will, but not science because science really doesn't care what anyone thinks of it. Science is a badass.

That's not really a good answer and insulting me by insinuating I'm a sheep that wants to be guided is just tactless. I'm sorry I had the audacity to make a joke about a sudden observation I had. All I was saying was that scientists seem to like to come up with the darkest outcome imaginable with very little evidence in this area. "The universe is expanding!? Oh no it'll keep going indefinitely!" Maybe it works the chest expansion during breathing: expands than contracts, then repeats? We don't know. Ditto with the Big Crunch option.

This seems remarkably similar to the Molecular Detachment Device (Doctor Device) from Ender's Game. Sci-fi sort of predicted another thing!

It'll be neat to read what conspiracy nuts think about it too.

Zombie Sodomy:
snip

Then why don't we see any super-technology species from preexisting universes running around? Furthermore, if a species could transcend the creation of a new universe, would not they survive the next transition as well, with another 12 billion years to develop their technology? Repeat this ad-nauseum, and this means either 1) one super-race wipes out everyone so they can't jump to the next universe as well (to prevent overcrowding), or 2) after 12 billion years species get invariably bored with existence and kill themselves, or 3) universe-hopping isn't possible.

Life is a wheel.
And we are but a spoke.

delroland:

Zombie Sodomy:
snip

Then why don't we see any super-technology species from preexisting universes running around? Furthermore, if a species could transcend the creation of a new universe, would not they survive the next transition as well, with another 12 billion years to develop their technology? Repeat this ad-nauseum, and this means either 1) one super-race wipes out everyone so they can't jump to the next universe as well (to prevent overcrowding), or 2) after 12 billion years species get invariably bored with existence and kill themselves, or 3) universe-hopping isn't possible.

I made it pretty clear that the whole thing was a long shot. It's just an idea.

Zombie Sodomy:
I made it pretty clear that the whole thing was a long shot. It's just an idea.

Oh, I'm not criticizing you. Just throwing some thoughts out there for discussion.

delroland:

Zombie Sodomy:
I made it pretty clear that the whole thing was a long shot. It's just an idea.

Oh, I'm not criticizing you. Just throwing some thoughts out there for discussion.

There would definitely be some interesting repercussions if something like this actually happened. The new universe might already populated and there would be a massive genocide when the old universe residents came. That actually wouldn't be half bad as a book.

kael013:

Zombie Sodomy:

kael013:

Also why is it that scientists always have some dark prediction for the future? "Oh, the universe will keep expanding until it's, for all intents and purposes, empty." "No, it'll collapse into nothing." "You're both wrong. Another universe will erase it and take it's place." Why can't we have a "Everything remains the same" option?

Um... because reality? This new one really isn't all that depressing, but if you just want to be told what you want to hear don't look to science. There are quite a few organizations out there that will, but not science because science really doesn't care what anyone thinks of it. Science is a badass.

That's not really a good answer and insulting me by insinuating I'm a sheep that wants to be guided is just tactless. I'm sorry I had the audacity to make a joke about a sudden observation I had. All I was saying was that scientists seem to like to come up with the darkest outcome imaginable with very little evidence in this area. "The universe is expanding!? Oh no it'll keep going indefinitely!" Maybe it works the chest expansion during breathing: expands than contracts, then repeats? We don't know. Ditto with the Big Crunch option.

Yeah tactless pretty much describes me. Sorry if you felt insulted. People aren't my specialty.

Zombie Sodomy:

Yeah tactless pretty much describes me. Sorry if you felt insulted. People aren't my specialty.

Eh, it's cool. I'm a joker with a temper like a strobe light - quick to ignite and quick to die. I got over it halfway through my reply. But yeah I know what you mean; people aren't my specialty either (neither is science apparently).

kael013:

Eh, it's cool. I'm a joker with a temper like a strobe light - quick to ignite and quick to die. I got over it halfway through my reply.

Yeah, me too.

kael013:

That's not really a good answer and insulting me by insinuating I'm a sheep that wants to be guided is just tactless.

Was he saying that? I think that came more from you than from him.

Besides, isn't this good news? If the universe is cyclical, then life will never vanish forever, only temporarily, and more intelligent beings will get their chance to experience it even after we're gone. That sounds a lot better to me than the alternatives we've previously had.

Cyclical universe by new one taking over the old. yeah, it starts making sense finally. science wins.

The idea of the universe dropping into a new quantum state isn't a new one. The discovery of Higgs bosons may have substatiated it a little more, but the theory has been around for years.

cerebus23:
Isn't it implied that this is all kind of random? or does our universes current energy state disallow it? Or can some higher energy or bigger universe just decide to plop into our universe at any given moment?

It does indeed seem to be random. But even so, "billions of years" isn't really the timescale we should be thinking of. Hell, even quadrillions or quintillions of years would probably be woefully inaccurate. Something like 10^100 years seems to be more in the right direction. That's about the number of protons in the Milky Way * 1000 * the current age of the galaxy. By that time any normal matter will already have disappeared loooooong ago (in about 10^43 years IIRC) and there may just be some giant black holes lurking about, ever so slowly evaporation due to Hawking radiation. Good odds that literally nothing will be around to witness it.

Or it might happen tomorrow. Who knows. :P

I don't have any type of degree, but doesn't this vacuum instability violate conservation of mass?

*Blink*

Waaait a minute... Didn't something like this crop up in an episode of Earthworm Jim?

(The premise there was that each universe that existed was contained within a snowglobe, which was surrounded by a bigger universe that is also in a snowglobe, and so on. And-

*Hits self in shock*

There was a throw-away line I heard in Doctor Who a long time ago, about Russian dolls: "I wonder if they realize they were building a model of the universe."

EDIT:

tehroc:
I don't have any type of degree, but doesn't this vacuum instability violate conservation of mass?

If it is, then that makes things very interesting about what we actually know about the universe. However, if it's not a literal eraser but a transfer of energy on a level we just didn't realize, then everything's really status quo.

"...knowing the mass of the Higgs allows for calculations that point to a cyclical universe of sorts..."

I always somehow knew my mass was linked to the universe's downfall...and I just shrugged it off as vanity.

Oh wait they probably just forgot the word boson...sorry for this I am tired and bat-shit crazy due to mid-term exams.

I gotta say, I like the idea of a new universe spontaneously appearing and overwriting the old universe.

The really depressing idea would be the universe expanding until everything dies and all the stars burn out, which I believe is currently the leading theory.

as someone mentioned on reddit yesterday, this discovery (if you will) instantly reminded me of isaac asimov's short story The Last Question.

http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm

well worth the read if anyone is interested. easily one of his best short stories ... and that is saying something.

This doesn't really make sense to me. Surely if our universe's expansion is both infinite and accelerating, this hypothetical new one will never be able to catch up with ours. I guess, perhaps, that this guy's idea doesn't rule out the possibility of our universe ending in a Heat Death or Big Freeze, but suggests that a new universe will expand into our dead one.

Morbid.

I don't buy it. I can understand an event obliterating all matter in the universe into little pieces, but there is no way matter can just stop existing. If a new universe expands in the middle of our own, it's not going to erase anything.

... Huh. Cool. Wait, hold on, did we just answer the 'what existed before the Big Bang' question? I mean, if it's a small bubble that rapidly expands, creating a whole new universe... And it's cyclical... Perhaps before the Big Bang was another universe, and then this happened, squashed it all and started this universe!

image

Billions of Years from now Galactus will be birthed.

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