Updated: PlayStation 4 Becomes Reality

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xorinite:

RicoADF:

Adam Jensen:

Nope. Not GPU RAM. System RAM.

Your both right and your both wrong, its shared ram, used by the CPU/GPU

Hang on, they cannot both be right. DDR and GDDR are different in more ways than simply where they are soldered, voltages, timings, frequencies and such are different between them.

"GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

Additionally, I am not sure that DDR5 ram exists, despite the existence of DDR3 based GDDR5.
I haven't even heard of DDR4 being released yet.

Edit additional: I am glad that they have increased the total level of ram in their system. We hopefully might begin to see continuous environments in bethsoft games.

Edit additional: DDR4 ram isn't finished yet, and its expected to be released for use in 2015, which makes the claims that PS4 uses DDR5 SDRAM pretty suspicious to me, its more likely they use GDDR5 which is modified DDR3 SDRAM.

Quoting for Truth.

Adam Jensen said something in regards to it being more powerful then computers at the moment... total and utter rubbish, for system memory, timing is far more important and considering GDDR5 (seeing as DDR5 isn't out) has rubbish timings at the moment, I'd certainly be avoiding it.

Al.

Zagzag:
Well, this was a huge surprise. Everyone already knew this was what it would be didn't they?

Now we have shinier graphics... Say hello to an era of games costing even more to develop, causing developers to only release the absolute blandest safest games in a never ending bid to still make money on the quest for completely unnecessary photo realism. Oh wait...

i know right why are some gamers looking foward to paying $10 or $20 more for a game that looks a tad bit better but plays the same as a game they can get now?

Lord_Jaroh:
The gaming industry needs one of the big ones to fail in order for it to truly recover, and actually start making games for gamers again.

So, what about the PS4 presentation made you think that this is anything but an attempted improvement for a core gamer audience? I didn't see any family-friendly commercials of a family with two kids, both parents, and at least one grandparent playing in an extremely white room. Maybe I missed something.

What I saw was a bold vision about the development of their console. Much of the stuff about the PS4 (at least, the first hour or so) was extremely impressive to me. There are several ideas that they have that are explicitly trying to improve the experience for core gamers and the gamer community. Do you think non-gamers love putting up and watching Let's Plays or walkthroughs? Why would non-gamers care that several developers from outside Sony had early and real input to make sure that they can have solid 3P support from both major and indy game developers? Casual gamers aren't the ones meant to be won over by their talk of streaming demos for every game or the ability to have automatic or instant game saves just by setting down the controller (by pressing the PS button, I think).

Those things are for gamers and if you can't see that they would be an improvement over current systems, you probably didn't watch the presentation (it's easy to misinterpret things when you only read highlights).

OT: So, clearly, I was impressed with Sony's bits about the new console. When I look at their PS4 rhetoric alongside the development of Playstation Plus and a recent promotional event (here's $10 free for being a customer), Sony is quickly setting themselves apart from their peers in terms of consumer/gamer service. Seriously, how awesome is it that a company wants to offer streaming demos for ALL games in their store and tells us that we should only "buy what we love"? This type of statement goes a long way in building my confidence that Sony is looking out for itself by looking out for customers (similar to how Amazon.com's business runs), though I would suspect 3P developer friction over this (like how DRM-style codes go against one of Sony's new PS4 tenants).

At the end of the day, though, I have to take it for what it is... undelivered promises. Sony seems to be in the right mindset to seriously improve the gaming situation for the community, but how these will meet with AAA developers like EA or Activision (and their continued war on our wallets/customer rights) remain to be seen.

PS - Man, the 3P Developer section was largely worthless (I say mostly because engine demos are always nice to see). Square Enix came out, showed a pre-rendered cinematic that they've previously released (as far as I know), and announced that at E3 they'll be announcing the next Final Fantasy game. Pointless.

Mr.Mattress:

Guy Jackson:

Mr.Mattress:
Also, can someone tell me if Unified Memory is better then whatever kind of Memory the WiiU has? Cause if it isn't any better, then the WiiU has more Memory then the PS4!

Flash memory is not RAM.

My bad. I'm not too well with Computer/Console Components.

Bascially the flash memory that the Wii U has is more akin to the Hard Drive space on the PS4 ( as far as type of memory)

There are two kinds of memory, RAM ( Random Access Memory) and ROM (Read Only Memory).... Flash falls in the ROM category. As does a hard drive.

There is really a lot to the topic but for basic knowledge RAM is effectively used to store the data you are currently viewing. Whereas ROM is where everything gets saved to when you click the save button, it is also where the Operating System ( XP Win 7 or Mac OSX etc...) is stored.

That is the bare bones basics.. So if you open up a picture of Batman off of google images that will be stored in RAM, if you save that picture of batman to your computer that will be ROM.

I hope that helps. :)

Adam Jensen:

doggie015:
I was honestly not expecting that! GDDR5 RAM is stupidly quick! Assuming that they have a good CPU and a northbridge chip that can push such high speeds from RAM to CPU then we might actually see something that can match and possibly even BEAT a high-end PC!

Keep in mind though, all those social gimmicks like taking video footage, screenshots etc. consumes RAM. Question is, how much. And how much will developers have left to use for actual games when they have to account for all those things in advance when making the game?

How is being able to record any game you are playing at any time a gimmick? That's awesome! Taking over someone's game on PSN doesn't seem like something I would ever do though. Or very rarely anyway.

"Sharing" and "Social" is all about highschool/peer pressure/feeling left out if you dont have the latest DLC that all your friends are playing, or games they are sharing.

I'm not a console player though, when I was, consoles were children's toys. I'm 30 now and it seems like for the most part nobody wants my money, which I have lots of. I only play on PC and only buy about 3 games a year. Very disenchanted with gaming industry in general since it started going down hill around 2006.

If next gen is about "social"- I mean come on; why not just release the 360Xablet or PSPhone and just give everyone a gamer hat and get it over with. All the industry seems to care about is more market share. How we can get senior citizens to become gamers? How can we get single mothers to become gamers?

It's really disgusting to see them basically pretend that the core group of folks who put them in any sort of position in the market in the first place don't exist any more.

But that's cool, I'll be over here, continuing to stick to PC, buying maybe 3 titles a year- and all the money I don't spend will continue to pile up in my bank account. Pay no attention to me. @Industry: Idiots.

Zagzag:
Now we have shinier graphics... Say hello to an era of games costing even more to develop, causing developers to only release the absolute blandest safest games in a never ending bid to still make money on the quest for completely unnecessary photo realism. Oh wait...

This, exactly this. The reason the PS2 is still one of the greatest consoles ever is because it went on for so long and it had that perfect balance of ease to develop and graphics capability. I am not excited at all for a new console generation with crappy launch titles, higher development costs, new, confusing design structure, and, most likely, no backwards compatibility.
We are at the point where we absolutely do not need better graphics on consoles. But of course, better graphics equals higher sales, which means that's all console developers are going to go after...

Will it be backwards compatible
Will it require constant internet connection
Are they going to be sued for implementing the possible one game on one console only scheme
Will they charge us Australians 3x the price
Do I have to sign up to too many things?

This.... actually doesnt look bad. ok color me interested. not the i want to buy interested, the i want to see how ti ends up interested.

Playing as you download - game assets does not work this way. they have to invent different way to store all assets for each level seperately, which puts A LOT of work on developers. then again they somewhat have to do that in part with discs model since the disck readers arent as fast as HDDs so they cant handle a "4gb dump of assets with need to read random parts all the time" so well.

Adam Jensen:

Notsomuch:

Adam Jensen:
8Gb of DDR5 RAM? That's INSANE!

Yeah, that's almost as good as my computer! Wait...

That's better than any computer. PC's only have DDR3 RAM. Only GPU's have DDR5 memory.

Does not matter much really. this is more of a future gaming thing. DDR5 gives you more ram speed, but DDR3 gives you enough for any game currently in existence already. sure, in future we may need faster than DDR3, but currently we dont. so id rather have 16 gb of ddr3 than 8 gb of ddr5. and the good thing with PCs, i can easily and cheaply put the ddr5 when the need comes. though kudos to SOny for looking at the future, but then they should have started with 16gb of it too. well, its better than 512 right?

Strazdas:
Does not matter much really. this is more of a future gaming thing.

I know it doesn't matter much when it comes to performance. Anyway, I made a mistake. I was excited because I thought it was DDR5, not GDDR5. Apples and oranges.

The only thing I care about for the PS4 is if it backwards compatible.

VoidWanderer:
The only thing I care about for the PS4 is if it backwards compatible.

It isn't. And it's better that way because it will be cheaper, and you can use PS3 to play PS3 games. Why are people so obsessed with backwards compatibility? No one is taking your PS3 away from you when you purchase a PS4.

Alistair_Darkheart:
Adam Jensen said something in regards to it being more powerful then computers at the moment... total and utter rubbish, for system memory, timing is far more important and considering GDDR5 (seeing as DDR5 isn't out) has rubbish timings at the moment, I'd certainly be avoiding it.

I was totally caught up in the moment. I thought the guy said DDR5 which made me excited like a schoolgirl.

Adam Jensen:

Strazdas:
Does not matter much really. this is more of a future gaming thing.

I know it doesn't matter much when it comes to performance. Anyway, I made a mistake. I was excited because I thought it was DDR5, not GDDR5. Apples and oranges.

yeah, it seems that way, i was fooled for a bit there as well.

I.Muir:
Will it be backwards compatible
Will it require constant internet connection
Are they going to be sued for implementing the possible one game on one console only scheme
Will they charge us Australians 3x the price
Do I have to sign up to too many things?

No
Yes
Unlikely
Very likely
And definitely yes

OT:
So far, not impressed. The only thing that scares me is that games will become another 10 bucks more expensive and that we have basically two options: paying an arm and a leg for the console, or making Sony pay an arm and a leg so that the console is even remotely affordable by poor sods like me. I believe it'll be somewhere in the middle with a cost of about $499 which obviously will translate 1:1 in pounds and euros because international companies roll that way >:C

and apparently, playing single player games will be continued to be frowned upon because now we have to share our entire play time with the world. and I think we now know how Sony will enforce their "no used games" strategy. By watching us play big brother style /paranoid

Seriously, though, games so far? meh

I'd get one then hack it and install linux.

I might seriously consider PlayStation 4 being my console of choice next generation over my previously coveted Xbox 360... unless of course Microsoft pull something incredible out of the hat.

Notsomuch:

Adam Jensen:
8Gb of DDR5 RAM? That's INSANE!

I'm surprised they named it the playstation 4. I wonder if it's going to be released as something else in Japan.

I don't see why it's surprising. I mean look at their console history...

PlayStation
PlayStation 2
PlayStation 3

Kinda fits quite well if you ask me :P I honestly prefer the tried and trusted numbering system; it just makes everything so much easier when talking about generations.

dagens24:
Colour me jaded but I give zero effs about sharing and videos and blah blah blah; I just want to play my damn game.

Oh god, this! I'm much more interested in my core gaming experience being improved. I want a more comfortable controller and better GUI, both of which seem to have been improved. The social aspects of gaming hold no interest with me.

The specs are pretty decent for a console system. Problem is, the entire industry is going to be held back by the "XBOX Next". They won't be using blu-ray. obviously, so sticking with DVDs then. They will of course be under the PS3 specs.

Basically, every game is going to be multiplatform, so PC & PS3 games will be marginally better because the games had to be developed for XBOX as well. The PS3 "exclusives" are just that, exclusives. So it means very little for PC gaming. Held back once again by whatever Microsoft wants. I imagine their biggest feature is a more extreme marketplace/dashboard. Thumbs up.

Also, they seem to care little about actual games and more about "market share" as xDarc said. Sharing, videos, deep Facebook integration.. wtf? Seriously just fuck off with this.

Also, the fact that it has no backwards compatibility is complete nonsense. I'll just assume they will announce "most PS3 games playable".. but here is the thing. The leap from PS1, to PS2 to PS3 was very profound. The leap from PS3 to PS4 is not as profound, it's marginal. PS4 games will not be that much different from say, PS2 to PS3. Having no PS3 compatibility is insane, and it is indication they are trying to corner the market and force consumers to use extra services.

Well it's a sad day for me when a whole generation passes me by (the PS3) without tempting me into buying a console. I guess my gaming days are over.

These can be viewed at 1080P.

First is from Skyrim from this generation. It is one of the best looking games I own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfKuXJ9oOPs

Next is some footage from the 2/2/2013 Sony announcement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbFBEjlKtpY

I doubt that is actual game play. It is likely cut scene. But, it sure shows how far we can go. PS4 might be able to do it. 8 Gig of DDR5. That is amazing. That is like having two high end graphics cards in SLI or Crossfire.

At $400, some are asking how Sony can make money. Well, first, they likely will see losses for a while. For some reason, they can sell a console for less than it costs to make and that is NOT considered predatory pricing. Go figure.

But Nintendo is selling an HD system with a tablet for $300. You can get a premium with extras for $350. You can use the tablet for a number of things, including playing a console game, streamed to the tablet while the family watches TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3FUz-fPUg0

Sony is telling you to go spend $400 on a Vita. So, for a similar experience but with better graphics, be ready to spend more like $800. To Sony, I write, er... OK. Will do ASAP.

The thing looks amazing. Maybe I can sell my kids for medical experiments to rustle up cash for this stuff!

The Vita is out now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyNWmwXoPTM

The PS4 will be out in 2013 Q4. We haven't seen the actual console yet! Even after the 2/20/2013 event! We have seen the controller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8kZCV621Tw

All I have from Sony is my PS1.....I might actually get this. Make "ninonybox" complete.

DDR 5 .. this is gonna be one hell of an expensive console.

EDIT: All...righty then. Since the rumors about Always Online DRM and used game-blocking are untrue...then I gotta say, the PS4 looks alright. Don't like gimmicky stuff, and the controller looks TERRIBLE, but, could be worse. I'll see what Microsoft has up their sleeves before I make decision, though.

The rumours that the PS4 would permanently require an internet connection and block used games have officially been confirmed to be untrue by Sony.

Here

And here

Interesting.

Cooperblack:
The rumours that the PS4 would permanently require an internet connection and block used games have officially been confirmed to be untrue by Sony.

Here

And here

Interesting.

From the first article:
"Social is big for us, but we understand there are some people who are anti-social!"

Ugh. What a sneering remark. The fact that they said this makes me believe that they are still planning an always-online system in the near future.

Cooperblack:
DDR 5 .. this is gonna be one hell of an expensive console.

The rumor is, about $400. This is very reasonable. The only thing that stinks: get ready to pay another $400 for a Vita with proprietary memory card to get the most out of it.

el_kabong:

Lord_Jaroh:
The gaming industry needs one of the big ones to fail in order for it to truly recover, and actually start making games for gamers again.

So, what about the PS4 presentation made you think that this is anything but an attempted improvement for a core gamer audience? I didn't see any family-friendly commercials of a family with two kids, both parents, and at least one grandparent playing in an extremely white room. Maybe I missed something.

What I saw was a bold vision about the development of their console. Much of the stuff about the PS4 (at least, the first hour or so) was extremely impressive to me. There are several ideas that they have that are explicitly trying to improve the experience for core gamers and the gamer community. Do you think non-gamers love putting up and watching Let's Plays or walkthroughs? Why would non-gamers care that several developers from outside Sony had early and real input to make sure that they can have solid 3P support from both major and indy game developers? Casual gamers aren't the ones meant to be won over by their talk of streaming demos for every game or the ability to have automatic or instant game saves just by setting down the controller (by pressing the PS button, I think).

Those things are for gamers and if you can't see that they would be an improvement over current systems, you probably didn't watch the presentation (it's easy to misinterpret things when you only read highlights).

I saw nothing in the presentation that warrants creating a new console that would require me to buy all of my games again in order to play them. Most of what they introduced for the PS4 could have been plugged into the PS3 with some software development. So all in all, we get a PS3+ that has slightly shinier graphics, so they can use the excuse to up the cost of games again arbitrarily (citing "development costs"), and it gives me the opportunity to rebuy any of my games again for the PS4, since it won't play any of those games that I already purchased. They don't care about the audience that it already has, it is concerned with the people that it doesn't have, and that is where their failing is.

The gaming "industry" used to be about making games that people enjoyed playing, of innovating, not just about shiny graphics and making money.

Adam Jensen:

VoidWanderer:
The only thing I care about for the PS4 is if it backwards compatible.

It isn't. And it's better that way because it will be cheaper, and you can use PS3 to play PS3 games. Why are people so obsessed with backwards compatibility? No one is taking your PS3 away from you when you purchase a PS4.

Some people like to have a clean living room, with one system under their TV, not 5. Some people also like technology to actually advance, especially when the companies show that they can do it, and then take that feature away, only to re-sell the games to us at an inflated price.

Forced obsolescence is not a good thing.

hapy for anyone to call me out on this; but ther is no such thing as DDR5. there's DDR3 system RAM and GDDR5 for graphics cards. GDDR5 can not be used for system memory or am I missing something here?

Also, great news about the 8 cores, lets hope they all get used in game, and push PC games beyond their current 4 core limit

Adam Jensen:

VoidWanderer:
The only thing I care about for the PS4 is if it backwards compatible.

It isn't. And it's better that way because it will be cheaper, and you can use PS3 to play PS3 games. Why are people so obsessed with backwards compatibility? No one is taking your PS3 away from you when you purchase a PS4.

some people prefer a one system does all for their game archive. one system looks a lot more pleasent to some (me included) than having a PS2, PS3 and a PS4 surrounding your TV. its a preference thing

Yeah no.

Enhanced social interaction means nothing to me, and there's little else to wow. I'm throwing in with the PC this generation.

So all this streaming, have they tested how good or stable it will be in countries with less than adequate internet? Or is Sony planning on releasing this console only in South Korea and Sweden?

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
And before anyone quotes me on this, no, just because Sony stopped making a loss on production of the PS3 in 2010, that is not the same thing as being profitable. They burned through their entire PS2 warchest with the PS3, and that was a huge amount of money. They haven't even begun to recoup the losses they accrued this gen, and now they're going to try and sell yet more consoles at a loss?

Sorry, I know this is going to be one of the sole cynical voices in amongst all the "WOOOH PS4 YEAH!" but this is not good for Sony. Financially, they're on the ropes. They need to get their shit together.

Big picture, my friend. Big picture. Sony made a calculated risk taking a loss on the PS3, and though IT didn't start making a profit until lately, answer me this: How many Blu-ray movies do you see on the shelf in stores? Now, how many HD-DVDs do you see on the shelves? Sony was one of the key Blu-ray Disc founders, and the PS3 was their knockout punch against Toshiba, Sanyo, RCA, and importantly, Microsoft, who had been promoting, and dumping resources into HD-DVD. So, though their sales numbers didn't show a profit for the PS3 until recently, overall it was a huge win for Sony and their allies that were together pushing the Blu-ray format.

tangoprime:

Big picture, my friend. Big picture. Sony made a calculated risk taking a loss on the PS3, and though IT didn't start making a profit until lately, answer me this: How many Blu-ray movies do you see on the shelf in stores? Now, how many HD-DVDs do you see on the shelves? Sony was one of the key Blu-ray Disc founders, and the PS3 was their knockout punch against Toshiba, Sanyo, RCA, and importantly, Microsoft, who had been promoting, and dumping resources into HD-DVD. So, though their sales numbers didn't show a profit for the PS3 until recently, overall it was a huge win for Sony and their allies that were together pushing the Blu-ray format.

But what has the net positive of that been? Sure, Blu-ray movies managed to win over HD-DVDs, but it's been 7 years, and film companies are still releasing on DVD? What does that tell you? Surely if Blu-Ray was a real victory, DVDs would have been on their way to obsolescence ages ago. Instead, if my local HMV shelves are any indicator (not that that'll be around for much longer), the vast majority of films and TV shows are sold on DVD. They're cheaper, and many people (myself included) prefer the look of standard-def DVDs over the High-Def soap opera look of Blu-Ray. If I'm watching Once Upon A Time In The West, I don't want to feel like I'm watching a sandy episode of East Enders.

And really, surely this is all nothing more than a dick contest? Yeah, Sony's Blu-Ray dick turned out longer than Microsoft's HD-Dick. It still hasn't stopped them from losing money.

Again, winning a format contest with Microsoft at the cost of losing all the money you had saved up from the PS1 and PS2 days isn't really winning. It's like spending your life savings on a faster supercar than the one your neighbour has. Sure, you're now faster than them, but you've still got mortgage payments to make, and a Pagani Zonda isn't going to stop the bailiffs from coming.

That's ultimately the bottom line. Sony needs to stop losing money, and in order to do that, they need to stop selling hardware under cost. It simply hasn't worked for them.

I think a lot of people who are disappointed with the huge social focus are kind of missing the point. Right now, Sony is not in a good shape financially. It need the PS4 to sell as much as possible. And while the social element may not appeal to many hardcore gamers, it is popular with the more casual audience who, lets face it, are a lot more numerous.

Aaaannnndddd, I'll stick to my PC.

CC17:
I think a lot of people who are disappointed with the huge social focus are kind of missing the point. Right now, Sony is not in a good shape financially. It need the PS4 to sell as much as possible. And while the social element may not appeal to many hardcore gamers, it is popular with the more casual audience who, lets face it, are a lot more numerous.

More accurately- Consoles are general purpose devices at this point. There isn't much that Sony could include in the PS4's basic feature set that the PS3 doesn't already have that could be considered hardcore gaming-focused. For that, we have to wait for actual games, which are still being developed.

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