PSN Games Won't Transfer to PS4

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Quiotu:

lazarus990:

kiri2tsubasa:
Not really going to be a problem since I will be buying a PS4 for PS4 games. Backwards comparability is a complete irrelevancy to me.

Dude, must be nice to be made of money. I for one, won't be buying a PS4 unless it is fully BC with the PS3 at a minimum.

Get used to disappointment then. The hardware architecture is completely different between the PS2, PS3 and PS4. None of them are gonna play nice with each other, which is why streaming was their only option.

BTW, if the next Xbox is also X86 architecture, they'll have the same issue, so don't expect the 720 to be your saving grace. If BC is something you absolutely need for consoles, the coming generation will probably suck for you.

720 a saving grace? Are you kidding? I wouldn't touch an Xbox with a 10 foot pole, let alone would I switch from Sony to micro-barf. If anything, I'll be switching from my console to PC.

But you bring up an interesting point. Every new system in the past 10 years seems to play the "we're using different architecture" excuse. Here's the deal: if you know BC is an issue, and I know it, and all the game critics are ranting about it, and every marketing department for Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo is hearing it, why wouldn't you work to fix the problem? Lt me say that again. Slowly. You see a problem, so fix it!

The biggest fault of the PS3, as I see it, was the fact that the library at release was almost non-existent. The games were lack-luster at best, and there seemed to be so few of them. If you integrated BC into the PS4 (even just PS3 compatibility) you would start with literally hundreds of games. You could then have the developers take their time on their new PS4 games and give us something good and solid. As opposed to all the rushed, buggy crap that's been coming out as of late.

BC is a game changer. And whoever does it first will force the financial hand of the other two giants. Say Nintendo does it and the others don't. I can see the potential for a lost revenue for Sony and Microsoft, simply for the fact that there are more games for the Nintendo system. More revenue means more buying power, means more capital, means more room to expand and innovate. This whole issue of BC could be the domino that starts the chain, and the nail in the coffin for one or both the others.

Treblaine:
"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

It would take a very powerful PC to emulate the PS3 full speed and that's if the emulator can even do it. PC emulators take years to perfect, even SNES emulators aren't perfect yet.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the PS4 to emulate a PS3. I do think the PS4 can emulate the PS1 and PS2 though. They say 10x the power is needed to emulate something and I have no doubt that the PS4 is atleast 10 times as powerful as the PS2, I mean they have an PS2 emulator on the PS3.

Burst6:
The other way would be to make a ps3 emulator inside the ps4, but considering high end PC's have a hard time running a ps3 emulator smoothly the ps4 wouldn't stand a chance.

Well that's worrying. If the PS4 TODAY (as much as a year before it even launches) isn't as powerful as high end personal computers from months ago then PS3 will start behind PC and fall back even further in a very short time.

Xbox 360 - when it launched in 2005 - it beat the top end PCs. And look how quickly PC left Xbox 360 behind in terms of capability.

Now I know we've seen some fancy demos of PS4 games... but Sony never promised they'd never pull the same thing they did with the Killzone 2 trailer again.

Hopefully PS4 won't be expensive, as apparently it's in the awful middle ground of too different to have any crossover with PS3 yet not powerful enough to simply emulate it.

Treblaine:

Xbox 360 - when it launched in 2005 - it beat the top end PCs.

image

It most certainly did not good sir.

Crono1973:

Treblaine:
"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

It would take a very powerful PC to emulate the PS3 full speed and that's if the emulator can even do it. PC emulators take years to perfect, even SNES emulators aren't perfect yet.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the PS4 to emulate a PS3. I do think the PS4 can emulate the PS1 and PS2 though. They say 10x the power is needed to emulate something and I have no doubt that the PS4 is atleast 10 times as powerful as the PS2, I mean they have an PS2 emulator on the PS3.

If SNES emulators aren't perfect... then NOTHING is perfect and I remind you those were made by indie coders, in their spare time, not for profit and - most importantly - they didn't have access to any privileged source code.

Sony does.

Which is why emulation worked so well for PS3.

Yes, the early issue PlayStation 3 consoles were fully backwards compatible entirely by software emulation and I can't say they were perfect as that is an extreme term, but I can say after playing through my entire PS1 and PS2 collection on PS3 I was yet to find any fault.

But PS3 could do that because it was much more powerful than PS2.

So PS4 not doing emulation means Sony is either:
(a) Monumentally Lazy and incompetent for such a resource rich corporation
(b) lying abotu emulation capability in a disingenuous attempt to wring more money from people, or
(c) the PS4 is much less of a leap in hardware capability than it's made out to be
(d) all of the above.

My money is on (d), knowing Sony. I mean I love PlayStation game but I do not trust Sony, the COMPANY is terrible.

See this is the difference between my views and fanboys, I can love Uncharted series... without thinking I have to love the CEO of Sony.

A genrational leap like from PS3 to PS4 bloody well should be 10x more powerful s in powerful enough to emulate the previous generation overwise it's a wasted half step.

Blunderboy:

Treblaine:

Xbox 360 - when it launched in 2005 - it beat the top end PCs.

image

It most certainly did not good sir.

I'll call you bluff then my good man...

I'll admit it BARELY beat the best of PC. Literally a month later a graphics card came out that topped it but there was a brief period where it was ahead. But PS4 seems to be even at this stage can't do what PCs were doing months ago. I mean PS2 games were successfully emulated on PS3 before they were emulated on PC.

And I am giving Xbox 360 benefit of the doubt, just comparing launch games apparent setting and framerate with PC. Though I only looked at one comparison.

And of course we all see how quickly PC pulled ahead of Xbox 360 and even lapped the PS3 on launch.

I thought the entire point of a transition to digital over hard copies would be avoiding things like this. The way this is going I'll be plugging in my shiny new PS4 around about 2020.

Every time I read something like this, I look at my desktop and run my eyes through games like System Shock 2, Heroes of Might&Magic 3 or Age of Empires 2. Then a shit-eating grin appears on my face and as the thought "What now, console peasants?" enters my mind, I pull out my throbbing 24 inch PC master race boner and click the browser icon.

On a more serious note, if you're really expecting this sort of stuff from consoles at this point, expect to be disappointed. I just don't know what to say apart from that, it's unrealistic in the extreme to expect PS3 games to run on PS4.

Treblaine:

If SNES emulators aren't perfect... then NOTHING is perfect and I remind you those were made by indie coders, in their spare time, not for profit and - most importantly - they didn't have access to any privileged source code.

Sony does.

Which is why emulation worked so well for PS3.

Yes, the early issue PlayStation 3 consoles were fully backwards compatible entirely by software emulation and I can't say they were perfect as that is an extreme term, but I can say after playing through my entire PS1 and PS2 collection on PS3 I was yet to find any fault.

But PS3 could do that because it was much more powerful than PS2.

So PS4 not doing emulation means Sony is either:
(a) Monumentally Lazy and incompetent for such a resource rich corporation
(b) lying abotu emulation capability in a disingenuous attempt to wring more money from people, or
(c) the PS4 is much less of a leap in hardware capability than it's made out to be
(d) all of the above.

My money is on (d), knowing Sony. I mean I love PlayStation game but I do not trust Sony, the COMPANY is terrible.

See this is the difference between my views and fanboys, I can love Uncharted series... without thinking I have to love the CEO of Sony.

A genrational leap like from PS3 to PS4 bloody well should be 10x more powerful s in powerful enough to emulate the previous generation overwise it's a wasted half step.

The early PS3's were backwards compatible because they had PS2 parts in them. There were two backwards compatable model types. Ones that just put in a full ps2 into the ps3 for perfect emulation, and ones that only put in a part of the ps2 and had emulation that was a bit buggy. They were the first to go because they greatly drove up prices. The PS4 is a good leap in hardware. About as much as we expect, and i would say about as big as the leap between ps2 and ps3. They can't make it too big or else consoles will cost too much. Sony learned their lesson from the last generation and they don't want to make the ps4 600 dollars.

Mr.Mattress:
Even the Wii can Transfer it's eShop and Virtual Console Games to the WiiU! If Sony really wants to focus on a Console for the Consumer, why are they going to such lengths to make people not buy it on day one?

because Sony hates you and your money.

Treblaine:

Crono1973:

Treblaine:
"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

It would take a very powerful PC to emulate the PS3 full speed and that's if the emulator can even do it. PC emulators take years to perfect, even SNES emulators aren't perfect yet.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the PS4 to emulate a PS3. I do think the PS4 can emulate the PS1 and PS2 though. They say 10x the power is needed to emulate something and I have no doubt that the PS4 is atleast 10 times as powerful as the PS2, I mean they have an PS2 emulator on the PS3.

If SNES emulators aren't perfect... then NOTHING is perfect and I remind you those were made by indie coders, in their spare time, not for profit and - most importantly - they didn't have access to any privileged source code.

Sony does.

Which is why emulation worked so well for PS3.

Yes, the early issue PlayStation 3 consoles were fully backwards compatible entirely by software emulation and I can't say they were perfect as that is an extreme term, but I can say after playing through my entire PS1 and PS2 collection on PS3 I was yet to find any fault.

But PS3 could do that because it was much more powerful than PS2.

So PS4 not doing emulation means Sony is either:
(a) Monumentally Lazy and incompetent for such a resource rich corporation
(b) lying abotu emulation capability in a disingenuous attempt to wring more money from people, or
(c) the PS4 is much less of a leap in hardware capability than it's made out to be
(d) all of the above.

My money is on (d), knowing Sony. I mean I love PlayStation game but I do not trust Sony, the COMPANY is terrible.

See this is the difference between my views and fanboys, I can love Uncharted series... without thinking I have to love the CEO of Sony.

A genrational leap like from PS3 to PS4 bloody well should be 10x more powerful s in powerful enough to emulate the previous generation overwise it's a wasted half step.

1) I did say the PS4 should be ale to emulate PS1 and PS2. Don't know why you're are arguing that with me.

2) You said there were PC emulators out there for the PS3. My point was that they certainly don't run full speed and the reason I said that is because you were using the existence of those emulators to say that Sony could make one too. I don't think the PS4 is 10x as powerful than the PS3.

I say again, I don't think the PS4 can emulate the PS3 but it can emulate the PS1 and the PS2 because the PS3 could do that.

Burst6:

The early PS3's were backwards compatible because they had PS2 parts in them. There were two backwards compatable model types. Ones that just put in a full ps2 into the ps3 for perfect emulation, and ones that only put in a part of the ps2 and had emulation that was a bit buggy. They were the first to go because they greatly drove up prices. The PS4 is a good leap in hardware. About as much as we expect, and i would say about as big as the leap between ps2 and ps3. They can't make it too big or else consoles will cost too much. Sony learned their lesson from the last generation and they don't want to make the ps4 600 dollars.

Sorry I missed the qualifier "in europe".

Check your data, the PS3 consoles sold in UK and throughout rest of Europe that were FULLY backwards compatible were explicitly with software emulation. And it works just fine. It's utter bollocks for Sony to claim PS3 can't play PS1/PS2 games via software emulation... that just makes it easier for them to sell PS2 HD Re-releases and pSN download releases of PS1 games.

And the Euro-PS3 had no detectable bugs emulating PS1 and PS2 games, to spite 100% software emulation. And PS2 was a pretty obtuse design like PS3 coding.

he PS4 is a good leap in hardware.

Again, how do you know?

What leads you to even infer that, or is that just speculation?

or else consoles will cost too much.

Then that means WAIT till the 10-fold capability is attainable with a reasonable price. Or release it now at a high price and cut the price later. Don't give me something underpowered now as it'll always be behind.

PS: PS3 launched for $499, only the special edition with extra large hard drive and pointless SD card reader cost $600.

Crono1973:

1) I did say the PS4 should be ale to emulate PS1 and PS2. Don't know why you're are arguing that with me.

Because you seem to contradict yourself

2) You said there were PC emulators out there for the PS3. My point was that they certainly don't run full speed and the reason I said that is because you were using the existence of those emulators to say that Sony could make one too. I don't think the PS4 is 10x as powerful than the PS3.

I say again, I don't think the PS4 can emulate the PS3 but it can emulate the PS1 and the PS2 because the PS3 could do that.

And I said those emulators are worst case scenarios, emulators mad by back room coders. Sony could do a much better job.

PS4 should be 10x more powerful as PS3 otherwise someone has made a monumental cock up.

Treblaine:

Crono1973:

1) I did say the PS4 should be ale to emulate PS1 and PS2. Don't know why you're are arguing that with me.

Because you seem to contradict yourself

2) You said there were PC emulators out there for the PS3. My point was that they certainly don't run full speed and the reason I said that is because you were using the existence of those emulators to say that Sony could make one too. I don't think the PS4 is 10x as powerful than the PS3.

I say again, I don't think the PS4 can emulate the PS3 but it can emulate the PS1 and the PS2 because the PS3 could do that.

And I said those emulators are worst case scenarios, emulators mad by back room coders. Sony could do a much better job.

PS4 should be 10x more powerful as PS3 otherwise someone has made a monumental cock up.

How do I contradict myself?

Let me explain it again:

1) I believe the PS4 CAN emulate the PS1 and PS2.

2) I don't believe the PS4 can emulate the PS3.

3) That bad PS3 emulators exist on PC doesn't mean that the PS4 can run a PS3 emulator at full speed

4) I do not believe the PS4 is 10x more powerful than the PS3.

Now, is that really so hard to understand?

Treblaine:

That's starting from a wrong principal.

The fact is in MANY ASPECTS the PS4 should be backwards compatible. You can't just blindly accept Sony's declaration that "PS4 is not backwards compatible".

Many of the games on PSN were not designed for PS3, they were designed for PS1, PS2, and PSP and a simple emulation profile is stuck on top. It just needs a PS4 version of the emulator instead.

And PS4 should be powerful enough to emulate PS3 games, as gaming PCs can today.

Emulators made by fans who do not have access to source code nor huge budgets actually work extremely well.

The problem with all this is it totally ruins transition from PS3 to PS4.

Are you really telling me that I should not accept facts?

You are right in that many games on the psn run off of an emulator. Expecting the ps4 to then emulate the ps3 in order to run the emulator for the system the games were designed on is just plain idiotic and would create a lot of problems and bugs. Its far better to just tell the developers on those games to update them if they want them to run on the ps4.

As for ruining the transition thats a load of crap. Very few consoles have ever had backwards compatibility and never ruined the transition. Sure the current market it bigger but that does not really change anything. You also have to consider that its only a small population that gives a shit about backwards compatibility. I would bet the vast majority dont give a shit and dont really go back and play older games.

If somebody who bought a ps4 wants to play a ps3 game shortly after launch they can play it on the ps3 that they are almost guaranteed to have.

There goes my dreams of a next generation Rock Band 4 being compatible with previous Rock Band songs :(

Little Gray:

Treblaine:

That's starting from a wrong principal.

The fact is in MANY ASPECTS the PS4 should be backwards compatible. You can't just blindly accept Sony's declaration that "PS4 is not backwards compatible".

Many of the games on PSN were not designed for PS3, they were designed for PS1, PS2, and PSP and a simple emulation profile is stuck on top. It just needs a PS4 version of the emulator instead.

And PS4 should be powerful enough to emulate PS3 games, as gaming PCs can today.

Emulators made by fans who do not have access to source code nor huge budgets actually work extremely well.

The problem with all this is it totally ruins transition from PS3 to PS4.

Are you really telling me that I should not accept facts?

You are right in that many games on the psn run off of an emulator. Expecting the ps4 to then emulate the ps3 in order to run the emulator for the system the games were designed on is just plain idiotic and would create a lot of problems and bugs. Its far better to just tell the developers on those games to update them if they want them to run on the ps4.

As for ruining the transition thats a load of crap. Very few consoles have ever had backwards compatibility and never ruined the transition. Sure the current market it bigger but that does not really change anything. You also have to consider that its only a small population that gives a shit about backwards compatibility. I would bet the vast majority dont give a shit and dont really go back and play older games.

If somebody who bought a ps4 wants to play a ps3 game shortly after launch they can play it on the ps3 that they are almost guaranteed to have.

Are you really telling me that I should not accept facts?

No, because a corporation's whims and decrees are not facts... no matter how much they act like they are and encourage people to believe they are inerrant and infallible.

Expecting the ps4 to then emulate the ps3 in order to run the emulator for the system the games were designed on is...

... Is NOT what I said. Not what anyone said.

I said they should make a one size fits all PS1-to-PS4 emulator. It's one effort for thousands of games.

its far better to just tell the developers on those games

If the developers even exist any more they have moved on. These are products that are in Sony's hands they are their responsibility. They have to do a LITTLE BIT of work for their money.

As for ruining the transition thats a load of crap. Very few consoles have ever had backwards compatibility and never ruined the transition.

Actually, a lot of consoles have had backwards compatibility:

-PS2 (huge success)
-Wii (huge success)
-GBA (significant success)
-Nintendo DS (Major Success)
-3DS (against all odds, a success)

PS3 INITIALLY had backwards compatibility, in the free form of pure software emulation which worked fine. But Sony sabotaged that coincidentally at the time they started HD-Re-releases and PSN re-releases. Same with Xbox 360, there were emulation profiles but when they started focusing on reselling old games back to people the emulation-profiles dried up and they were not hard to make.

Amd PC is inherently backwards compatible, to spite huge hardware advancements only compatibility-mode or a recent patch is needed to make an old game run on modern systems.

If somebody who bought a ps4 wants to play a ps3 game shortly after launch they can play it on the ps3 that they are almost guaranteed to have.

Unless they plan to sell their PS3 to help pay for PS4.

Well i'm not buying the PS4 then, i swear the Wii U can at least transfer VC games (i'd like a correction if i'm wrong). If the PSN games for PS3 are eventually updated to PS4 they should allow free re-downloads.

This is why I like gaming on a PC.

CrazyCapnMorgan:

I'm honoured you thought of me!

*hugs you*
image

Atary77:
I blame the PS3 cell processor. Its done nothing but make thing difficult for those making game for the PS3. I'm fine with not being able to play PS3, PS2, or PS1 games but I wonder about digital only PSN games Joe Danger and the like. I'd be bummed if I can't play those.

Actually I don't blame the cell processor here it's been 6 long years and developers can work on it. I do however have a theory on this and it has do with the leak of the root/encryption key a couple of years ago. I wonder why so many have forgotten this?? Maybe Sony is changing the way their system does things from the ground up, is due in part that the keys to pass legit software was plastered all over the net and this didn't set to well with publishers. However the couldn't change this the ps3 due in part that well.. it would render all previous software useless "gee it sounds like what they are doing now". If they did stick with the same arc-type this would lead to the ps4 being modded and we all know what kind of mess that led to/crazy theory over.

Kmadden2004:

dragongit:

Kmadden2004:
Okay, I know I'm not an IT expert by any stretch of the imagination, but surely if the PS4 is as incredibly powerful as Sony want us to believe, then why would it be "over stretching" the machine's processor to play older games? I mean, seriously, if the Wii-U can do it, why not the PS4?

And where does this leave certain next-gen titles like (if the rumours are to be believed about it being next-gen) Dragon Age 3, where you really need to import old PS3 save files to get the most out of the game?

you'd think that a PC could play old PC games without issue, concidering the requirements from the past are significaly less then they are today. but try to load up an old game without proper emulation will either result in the game not functioning, or a crash. Just because the hardware is more powerful doesn't mean it'll run everything smoothly. Sometimes a machine can be too powerful and overclock settings into an unplayable state. The story is that some titles from the PSN won't be playable "right away" meaning that they are focusing on making sure the launch games arn't buggy and laggy, while saving their "longer lasting" classic titles for another day, when they've ironed out internal emulation.

Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong, but I've always been led to believe that the problems with running older PC games on new machines are usually an issue with the operating system just not supporting the software, as opposed to "over stretching" processor.

This is true, it's not "over stretching". A problem that I've had in the past, usually with games between 1994-1999, is that the game requires a specific class of graphics processor, ram or soundcard and is programmed to fail if it doesn't have it, in those circumstances you actually need to not only run Windows 95 but you need to run a specific program to emulate the architecture of the hardware as well. This is easy in Dos games because it can use the processor to duplicate nearly all the functions of all of the components of a computer running Dos, not so easy with mid-age games.

The cell may be complex, but the processor in the PS4 should be nearly eight times as powerful, there really is no reason why they shouldn't be able to adapt the PS4 to play all Playstation games 1-4, although I'm not sure how backwards compatible disc readers are, but the blue-ray player in my computer can read all discs, the only reason I can see is that they don't believe it will make enough of a difference in sales to include the option.

When the PS2 came out, consider the big games of the PSOne generation: Gran Turismo, Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy
A number of them were RPGs, Adventure games, or like Gran Turismo, would be a while before the next one released. Not to mention the PSOne they could make it into a SOC.
The PS2 also had a lot of high profile RPGs, but as the PS3 came out, PS2 compatibility was expensive, and the market changed,
I think the only two major non-shooter/sports titles on PS3 were Uncharted, Final Fantasy XIII (Which some consider a flop), and The Last of Us.

Does someone who buys Madden or Call of Duty need backwards compatibility? They've played those games to death, and are looking forward to the next one. So backwards compatibility which used to be how to get early adoption, is no longer needed as the majority of gamers don't play single player games anymore.

As for why Wii U has Wii compatibility, its because the Wii U is a Wii on Steroids. The emulation is just the OS layer. (The Wii btw was a Gamecube on caffeine). Nintentdo also has a large number of popular single player experiences that are not always similar with their sequels. (Some are, some are not).

Granted, I am surprised Sony didn't just include a PSOne SOC in the PS4, just because all their other devices have one.

Of course a plus note: Most modern games are coded in C/C++ and use cross-platform engines, so porting between PS3 and PS4 should not be as difficult as PS2 to PS3. I expect God of War, Last of Us, and Uncharted to be re-released on PS4 for instance.

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