Conan O'Brien Loses It Over Lara

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Proverbial Jon:
Looks like Lara isn't ridding herself of the view that she's nothing but a shallow sex symbol any time soon. Not in Conan's eyes at any rate.

You realize he is joking and exaggerating everything?

But there is nothing wrong with being a sex symbol in a tasteful manner.

m19:

Proverbial Jon:
Looks like Lara isn't ridding herself of the view that she's nothing but a shallow sex symbol any time soon. Not in Conan's eyes at any rate.

You realize he is joking and exaggerating everything?

But there is nothing wrong with being a sex symbol in a tasteful manner.

Don't worry, I was being sarcastic. It's not like I'd trust a Conan O'Brien "review" of a game! :P

m19:

Proverbial Jon:
Looks like Lara isn't ridding herself of the view that she's nothing but a shallow sex symbol any time soon. Not in Conan's eyes at any rate.

You realize he is joking and exaggerating everything?

And making fun of the men's reactions to her.

Daystar Clarion:

It's Craig! Pronounced 'Crayg', not 'Creg'

I don't think that this gets enough attention. I'm not 100% sure WHY it angers me so much that Americans insist on pronouncing it wrong, but it makes me want to punch them all in the face.

Oh, and on topic I suppose... Not played a Tomb Raider since 2. Probably not going to start up again now. I got bored of the 2nd one many many years ago because I sucked at it and struggled to get past, like, the 4th level, kinda got me off the whole 3D platforming/puzzling genre to be honest.

Now what I remember from the Original Tomb Raider... apart from killing a T-Rex with pistols?

Jumping from a great height and breaking Lara's neck.
This is nothing new.

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

Catie Caraco:

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

And I thought *I* watched weird porn. Jesus, man.

Catie Caraco:

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

Trust me that isn't torture porn. You are merely expressing your morality and opinion when you don't understand what actual torture porn is.

Also, yes it should be disturbing. Because there are a lot more games, movies, movies of a video game franchise, books and much more that have had more disturbing deaths and often result as it is our innate desire to survive to struggle to the very end.

Black Hawk Down, The Town, Dead Space, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Fatal Frame, Indiana Jones and much more have had moments of characters be they extras or main characters in their last throws of life struggle to survive despite how futile it is for them to survive and it is that raw fantasy of death that makes it all more horrifying because it is a pain we cannot emphasize with yet knowing that the specter of death is always looming yet we don't know how we are going to pass on.

If there is one reason you are also disturbed it is because you aren't the one playing the game but watching another person play the game who is clearly a comedian yet given a situation that is hard to make light of because the emotional investment was made by Conan. So you are if anything feeling what he is feeling especially with a game that the developer really kept underwraps and heavily marketed that you want to make sure Lara survives to which if you notice they only show the moments that are really only there as cinematic because chances are the main gameplay is just going to be fighting dumb AI and killing animals which in terms of material for comedy isn't really engaging compared to the cinematic events that hail all the way back from the days of Dragon's Lair or Space Ace.

Catie Caraco:

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

It's not exactly pornographic in my eyes. Compare it to the Saw movies, films often considered the height of the sick torture porn sub-genre of horror. The victims in the film have long, prolonged deaths in extremely painful ways. They normally actually do have a way to escape which either causes even more pain or is too hard, and their last moments are usually that of either terrible agony, disgusting emotional distress or both. Whereas this is one of the many ways you can die in the game, it lasts a few seconds and it's no more violent than most games. Hell, go play Chivalry: Medival Warfare; that has deaths including having your arm chopped off, you looking at it then flopping to the ground and it's all in first person. In my eyes disturbing death scenes does not always torture porn, yet torture porn is always disturbing.

The death wasn't sexualized in any way, and I'm pretty sure if one were to be in that terrible predicament in their final moments they will probably make faces that could be mis-construed as sexual. Let me ask you, if they simply changed the model from Lara to a man would you call it sexualized? I think people are just seeing it as torture porn because it's a woman, when the other countless brutal and terrible deaths in video games aren't because they're men.

I love that both his pronunciations of Lara are wrong.

Tenmar:

Catie Caraco:

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

Uh, no, the reason I feel that way is because that's the emotion it elicits in me. I don't watch torture porn, but the expression on her face looked more like a money shot that an 'I'm dying' expression, and the way in which she was grabbing at the branch or whatever it was looked more like a caress than anything else. So, yeah, looked kinda pornographic to me.

I'm allowed to react one way, you can react another. I for one am not a fan of graphic violence, so I may not be a connoisseur, but don't tell me that I'm putting a moral spin on it. I never said that it was a bad thing, in fact I'm impressed by the strength of the reaction it elicited. I don't have a problem with the game and will probably pick up a copy. But that doesn't mean I'm not squicked out by a part of it.

I was squicked out by the horse scene in Game of Thrones. Didn't make me stop watching it, I just look away at that scene now.

The main thing that spear through the neck made me think was 'That is so very unlikely to happen once, much less several times in a row. . .'. Not to mention the placement and stuff (through the spine, it kinda looked like). It's too silly to be all that gruesome. More like 'c'mon guys, really? really?' Someone's immature idea of hey wouldn't it be cool if?

Catie Caraco:

Uh, no, the reason I feel that way is because that's the emotion it elicits in me. I don't watch torture porn, but the expression on her face looked more like a money shot that an 'I'm dying' expression, and the way in which she was grabbing at the branch or whatever it was looked more like a caress than anything else. So, yeah, looked kinda pornographic to me.

I'm allowed to react one way, you can react another. I for one am not a fan of graphic violence, so I may not be a connoisseur, but don't tell me that I'm putting a moral spin on it. I never said that it was a bad thing, in fact I'm impressed by the strength of the reaction it elicited. I don't have a problem with the game and will probably pick up a copy. But that doesn't mean I'm not squicked out by a part of it.

I was squicked out by the horse scene in Game of Thrones. Didn't make me stop watching it, I just look away at that scene now.

The very moment you started calling it torture porn or pornographic yet not understanding what torture porn is, is the very moment you are pushing your own morality into the debate because it stops being about what was intended by the developers and starts becoming what you want people to think the way you want to think.

ToastiestZombie:

Catie Caraco:

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

Let me ask you, if they simply changed the model from Lara to a man would you call it sexualized? I think people are just seeing it as torture porn because it's a woman, when the other countless brutal and terrible deaths in video games aren't because they're men.

First of all, I LOVE your imp-slapping icon. I gotta admit that I was a little distracted by that for a bit.

And as for it being a man, I honestly don't know. I haven't ever seen a money shot featuring a man, and her expression in that scene reminds me of a money shot. Ya know, that fake-gasm face. I CAN say if she'd made more of an expression like Ser Jory when he got his eye stabbed then I wouldn't call it sexualized. Her gesturing of the branch or whatever it was also came off as weird to me.. more like a caress than a "WHAT THE FUCK IS STICKING OUT MY NECK" response.

I can also tell you I'd probably be just as grossed out and disturbed if it had been a male character dying that suddenly, but I can infer from other media that he wouldn't have had a fake-gasm look on his face. I guess I just haven't seen enough men faking orgasms to know what that expression would be.

I'd like to sum up with that this hasn't really turned me off to the game, and I still intend to try it. From the review off this website it sounds like I'd enjoy it more than the other Tomb Raider titles, which never drew me in as an IP.

Loop Stricken:

Catie Caraco:

synobal:
Some of the deaths in this game seem a bit I dunno like torture porn.

Exactly.. the way she was groping at it was disturbing.

I've seen a lot of icky death in media. Hell, I've seen all of game of thrones and THAT has the par-decapitation of a horse. *shudder* But that branch through the neck was just... that squicked me out, man. Squicked me out bad. Her expression and gestures were.. yeah, pornographic.

And I thought *I* watched weird porn. Jesus, man.

She has a fake orgasm look on her face. Which is in like, ALL commercially made porn. So, I'm not watching /weird/ porn, I'm watching bad porn, I guess. Not that I watch a lot of it.

Stu35:

And making fun of the men's reactions to her.

Yeah, it's a parody.

Tenmar:

Catie Caraco:

Uh, no, the reason I feel that way is because that's the emotion it elicits in me. I don't watch torture porn, but the expression on her face looked more like a money shot that an 'I'm dying' expression, and the way in which she was grabbing at the branch or whatever it was looked more like a caress than anything else. So, yeah, looked kinda pornographic to me.

I'm allowed to react one way, you can react another. I for one am not a fan of graphic violence, so I may not be a connoisseur, but don't tell me that I'm putting a moral spin on it. I never said that it was a bad thing, in fact I'm impressed by the strength of the reaction it elicited. I don't have a problem with the game and will probably pick up a copy. But that doesn't mean I'm not squicked out by a part of it.

I was squicked out by the horse scene in Game of Thrones. Didn't make me stop watching it, I just look away at that scene now.

The very moment you started calling it torture porn or pornographic yet not understanding what torture porn is, is the very moment you are pushing your own morality into the debate because it stops being about what was intended by the developers and starts becoming what you want people to think the way you want to think.

You're not ever going to convince me I'm wrong, especially since all of your sentences are run ons and make my eyes hurt. And it doesn't matter what the developer intended if they failed to get that intent across. Unlike you, I'm not trying to sway anyone to my view, I'm just expressing my reaction. And I, myself, never called it torture porn, I said it looked pornographic.

Dammit, I laughed far to hard at that spike-impaling scene.

But really, people knew this was the gritty reboot and the developers made a point of saying that Lara was going to get hurt in very real very brutal fashions. Why is everyone suddenly getting their knickers in a twist over what seems to be a (from a non-medical perspective) real danger of descending a rapid,well... rapid!

Catie Caraco:
[quote="Tenmar" post="7.402025.16581015"][quote="Catie Caraco" post="7.402025.16580986"]

And I, myself, never called it torture porn, I said it looked pornographic.

Really that speaks more for you than the developers.

Catie Caraco:
Snip

I guess you can say her face looks like an O-face, but that does not mean it's torture porn. Torture porn is normally dragged out, extremely painful with no end in sight. This is quite a quick death, and it definitely isn't torture as torture is normally done by one person to another with sadistic intent.

Oh, and don't get me wrong I have been thoroughly disturbed out by scenes in both films and games. The latest one being the scene in Django Unchained:

But, I think that calling it torture porn is a bit excessive. It's more you putting your own morality on things, which is perfectly fine but saying it's torture porn when the devs most likely didn't intend that is just wrong in my opinion.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I love this avatar.

SacremPyrobolum:
Dammit, I laughed far to hard at that spike-impaling scene.

But really, people knew this was the gritty reboot and the developers made a point of saying that Lara was going to get hurt in very real very brutal fashions. Why is everyone suddenly getting their knickers in a twist over what seems to be a (from a non-medical perspective) real danger of descending a rapid,well... rapid!

Catie Caraco:
[quote="Tenmar" post="7.402025.16581015"][quote="Catie Caraco" post="7.402025.16580986"]

And I, myself, never called it torture porn, I said it looked pornographic.

Really that speaks more for you than the developers.

Fair enough. Enjoy that glimpse into my subconscious, and the way my brain works. Then again, as I said in another post, just because the developers intended one thing doesn't mean they achieved it.

ToastiestZombie:

Catie Caraco:
Snip

I guess you can say her face looks like an O-face, but that does not mean it's torture porn. Torture porn is normally dragged out, extremely painful with no end in sight. This is quite a quick death, and it definitely isn't torture as torture is normally done by one person to another with sadistic intent.

Oh, and don't get me wrong I have been thoroughly disturbed out by scenes in both films and games. The latest one being the scene in Django Unchained:

But, I think that calling it torture porn is a bit excessive. It's more you putting your own morality on things, which is perfectly fine but saying it's torture porn when the devs most likely didn't intend that is just wrong in my opinion.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I love this avatar.

That's because Tyrion is the best.

Also, I quoted someone who called it torture porn, but I never called it torture porn. I don't see any torture to it, I just see it as a little more sexualized than necessary. I am unfamiliar with torture porn, since it's not something I enjoy, I don't watch it. I guess I misspoke since every one thinks I meant torture porn a'la Saw, but I guess it's more like.. Snuff maybe? I dunno, I don't watch Snuff either, I just know the loose definition.

My squick factor comes not so much from the violence itself as her expression. Is there a word for that? I don't even know.

JeanLuc761:

Chris Batson:

lumenadducere:

Yeah, I usually don't care at all about game violence, but that seemed unnecessary. Like, things in ultra-violent games like MadWorld, Manhunt, Postal, etc. aren't an issue for me, yet that made me uncomfortable. I really have to wonder who thought that was a good idea and why the rest of the dev team listened to them.

Exactly! The aesthetic of those environments makes me feel that the graphic violence is justified, if not necessarily "easy" to watch. In this instance though, it just seems - like you said - unnecessary and out of tone with the rest of the game.

I know from the promotional material that the development team wanted to make the world of Tomb Raider more realistic with an emphasis on danger, but this looks downright exploitative. I mean they have her struggle for a few seconds after she gets impaled! Too harsh of a "punishment" for an inexperienced college student.

Well, one could make the argument that the phenomenally brutal deaths in the Dead Space series is too harsh of a punishment for an engineer, but I don't remember there being much of a backlash to those.

Before I go any further, let me just say that my comment about being an inexperienced college student was a bit of an afterthought and my argument could probably do without it. I also don't want to sound hyperbolic, so please forgive me if I am and alert me of my behavior. And I definitely don't want to detract from the outstanding video anymore than I already have, so I'll try to keep this to the point.

Now, I definitely do agree that Dead Space did feature some phenomenally brutal deaths for Isaac, and I've always felt very sensitive watching those as well. However, I think the difference between the scenarios for both games - at least for me - is the unexpectedness and matter-of-factness of the death, and the vulnerability present in Lara.

With Dead Space, the reason I don't think there would be much backlash with Isaac's deaths is that everything about the creepy, isolated environment of Dead Space is rooted in a cultural understanding that the brutality featured in the game was somewhat expected. That's to say nothing of the marketing, which openly acknowledged the Alien series - a series at least partially known for its gruesome deaths - as a major influence. Plus, there was almost always some sort of indication that the player's failure to complete a task (whether through an environmental challenge or combat with the necromorphs/humans) would result in an unfortunate, terrifying demise. Even in the infamous "giant needle in the eye" segment in Dead Space 2, there was a definite period of time to prepare yourself for what would happen (DON'T WATCH IF YOU'RE SQUEAMISH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KCjVeYNS3c).

All of this is to say that with Lara, I don't feel the player is given the proper "head's up" that something like THAT would happen. There's also the matter of context, which is what I meant with my "inexperienced college student" comment, as well the matter-of-factness of the death, and the vulnerability present in Lara. In this rebooted origin of Lara Croft, we are taking our heroine - a wide-eyed, studious, totally green archaeologist - on a harsh, but rewarding, journey of self-discovery and confidence as she strives to rescue her friends and learn about her surroundings. If we were to end this journey here, we would be left with a clear view of all this potential - all the inner-strength to be found, the safety of her friends to be assured, and the mysteries to be unlocked - dashed away due to one error. And the worst part is that you can see those thoughts crossing Lara's mind in her expression as she fights to undo her mistake, but sadly can't. Not to say that her efforts would be for naught and shouldn't have been made at all, but who wouldn't want to see a better ending?

With Dead Space, while I definitely feel an emotional connection to Isaac and a longing for him to complete his story, it's clear that the space he occupies - while important - is part of a much bigger story. In Tomb Raider or in this game at least, the setting seems to act as the background for Lara's development, and as such every story point should be used to inform Lara as character so we can know how she ticks when we play her in future games. If she were to somehow survive this traumatic event I don't think there would be too much room for adventuring when she's dealing with the post-traumatic stress. Or if she were to gain a second wind and be able to complete every part of her quest, I think we would get a very different, tragically-determined Lara.

When I am saying that this death seems "too harsh," I'm saying that while the road to growing up and learning about yourself is fraught with many mistakes, I think it's important to know that you can always learn from these mistakes and reach your true potential. This death, and the way it's presented, metaphorically tries to negate that idea. Granted, this could be an intentional design decision on the part of the developers so the audience can build an emotional attachment with Lara. Its graphic nature too could also be a "wake-up call" to show players what the stakes are, but it still rings hollow to me. It feels like the development team is messing with a natural part of growing up in order to manipulate me and its audience into caring for Lara, and in the end I think THAT's what upsets me more.

...Wow, so much for "keeping this to the point," huh?

Well, let me type "thank you" for responding. I think this topic was definitely worth exploring and. I have a little more thought on the subject, but I really need to get back to my schedule. I hope I was able to communicate my ideas effectively and that any of the probable spelling/grammar errors won't detract from my point. Please feel free to respond with any comments or critiques and I'll try get back to you as soon as possible, this is definitely a conversation worth continuing.

Have a great day! :)

Also, if any Crystal Dynamics devs should happen to read, no disrespect intended. I'm actually super looking forward to this game. [/wishful thinking]

Just going to throw in my two sentences about the gruesome death.

It's only "shocking," and "too much," because no one expected it. Honestly, there have been worse deaths in other games and movies but they were to be expected, thus less shocking.

Maybe I'm a terrible person but after I saw it once, it wasn't as bad.

Catie Caraco:

And as for it being a man, I honestly don't know. I haven't ever seen a money shot featuring a man, and her expression in that scene reminds me of a money shot. Ya know, that fake-gasm face. I CAN say if she'd made more of an expression like Ser Jory when he got his eye stabbed then I wouldn't call it sexualized. Her gesturing of the branch or whatever it was also came off as weird to me.. more like a caress than a "WHAT THE FUCK IS STICKING OUT MY NECK" response.

What? Let me just try to count how many baseless assumptions you're making here:
1) Lara's reaction to getting impaled on a spike is unrealistic (how do you know?);
2) Lara's expression is "sexual" in nature (according to whom? Certainly didn't look that way to me; more like disgust);
3) Lara "caresses" the spike (looks a lot more like she's trying desperately to pull it out);
4) There is an obvious distinction between "sexualised" depictions of pain and "normal" depictions of pain (is there really?);
5) This distinction was intentionally made (or at least subconsciously made) by the developers.

I see no factual basis for any of those assumptions; only projections of your cynical outlook.

Damn, I love Conan. This was probably my favourite clueless gamer so far, and I had a similar reaction when she got impaled. Though admittedly I love how brutal it makes the game seem.

Tenmar:

grey_space:
'The uploader has not made this video available in your country'

Arragghh!

What's your problem with Ireland youtube!!!!????

Dude they segregated all of youtube by region. Probably as an answer to prevent slow access to servers which is kinda ingenious but also demonstrates how weak the internet's infrastructure the moment you step out of the US.

Interesting. I was unaware of this. Thanks for the info I had not come across this before.

Tenmar:

grey_space:
'The uploader has not made this video available in your country'

Arragghh!

What's your problem with Ireland youtube!!!!????

Dude they segregated all of youtube by region. Probably as an answer to prevent slow access to servers which is kinda ingenious but also demonstrates how weak the internet's infrastructure the moment you step out of the US.

Actually the net outside the US is quite powerful, its US copyright laws and how your media corporations love control that's caused the issue.

I've massacred thousands of soldiers,disentangled millions of organs, decapited hundreds of foes, and commited war crimes beyond redemption with White Phosphorous... but somehow watching Lara's face become a shishkebob was one of the most disturbing images I've seen on a game.

Wow, color me impressed. The game looks really good!

James Joseph Emerald:

Catie Caraco:

And as for it being a man, I honestly don't know. I haven't ever seen a money shot featuring a man, and her expression in that scene reminds me of a money shot. Ya know, that fake-gasm face. I CAN say if she'd made more of an expression like Ser Jory when he got his eye stabbed then I wouldn't call it sexualized. Her gesturing of the branch or whatever it was also came off as weird to me.. more like a caress than a "WHAT THE FUCK IS STICKING OUT MY NECK" response.

What? Let me just try to count how many baseless assumptions you're making here:
1) Lara's reaction to getting impaled on a spike is unrealistic (how do you know?);
2) Lara's expression is "sexual" in nature (according to whom? Certainly didn't look that way to me; more like disgust);
3) Lara "caresses" the spike (looks a lot more like she's trying desperately to pull it out);
4) There is an obvious distinction between "sexualised" depictions of pain and "normal" depictions of pain (is there really?);
5) This distinction was intentionally made (or at least subconsciously made) by the developers.

I see no factual basis for any of those assumptions; only projections of your cynical outlook.

1) I didn't call it unrealistic, but it doesn't match up with other depictions I've seen in other forms of graphic media.
2) To me, it looks like a fake orgasm face. To each their own.
3) If she was trying to remove she'd actually wrap her hand around it. I, personally, see no gesture indicating she's trying to remove it.
4) I've seen expressions of pain that were in no way sexual, so.. yes. I can see a distinction.
5) I have never claimed that the developers intended this. Not once. I'm not sure what their intention was. I'm just saying how it appeared to me.

I don't think I'm that cynical at all. And they aren't 'baseless assumptions', they are my opinions garnered from watching the video. You're more than entitled to disagree and to come away from it with a different opinion than I did. As the scene looked to me she was more sexualized than men in other, similar, situations.

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it exists. I'm not saying it needs to be edited or changed to suit my needs. I'm not saying the game is unplayable or harmful in anyway. I'm not saying that you shouldn't play it or that I should.

Why is it "cynical" or "threatening" to point this out? And why does your response have to include a personal insult with a hostile tone?

Catie Caraco:

I don't think I'm that cynical at all. And they aren't 'baseless assumptions', they are my opinions garnered from watching the video. You're more than entitled to disagree and to come away from it with a different opinion than I did.

Well yes, that's what I'm doing. I'm not "threatened" by your opinion, and my tone isn't hostile. I just disagree and think you're taking your own bias (i.e. a preconception that everything in Tomb Raider is sexualised) and projecting it on to something only tenuously related.

It's just funny how everyone thinks they're being clever when they say stuff like "look how many times Lara is penetrated by a phallic object! Obviously symbolic of sexual violence!" yet if you actually follow that train of thought, then 90% of games with male characters has gay rape as a theme...

Catie Caraco:
[
3) If she was trying to remove she'd actually wrap her hand around it. I, personally, see no gesture indicating she's trying to remove it.

I just want to remind you of one LITTLE detail that you seem to miss out on if you would watch the video gain.

Lara was SWEPT AWAY BY THE RAGING RAPIDS that once impaled is not going to somehow stop pushing her body the way the current is flowing. She has a force pushing against her that was the reason of said impalement and why you apparently think she isn't trying to remove said branch from her neck that would stop her capability to breath. But hey, let's just go with what you think that Lara just loves caressing the very thing that kills her in the most pornographic way possible and ignore all context, physics and circumstance that everyone else realizes except you because of your inability to analyze a situation from multiple perspectives.

James Joseph Emerald:

Catie Caraco:

I don't think I'm that cynical at all. And they aren't 'baseless assumptions', they are my opinions garnered from watching the video. You're more than entitled to disagree and to come away from it with a different opinion than I did.

Well yes, that's what I'm doing. I'm not "threatened" by your opinion, and my tone isn't hostile. I just disagree and think you're taking your own bias (i.e. a preconception that everything in Tomb Raider is sexualised) and projecting it on to something only tenuously related.

It's just funny how everyone thinks they're being clever when they say stuff like "look how many times Lara is penetrated by a phallic object! Obviously symbolic of sexual violence!" yet if you actually follow that train of thought, then 90% of games with male characters has gay rape as a theme...

.. When did I say that Everything in Tomb Raider is sexualized? I'm pretty sure I only said the one scene was. I have only played the opening of one other Tomb Raider, became frustrated with the controls, and quit. I have very little experience with the series. So, I'm not trying to be clever, all I did was offer up an opinion. I was one of the people who thought that "rape" scene where the guy touches her arm was people making a big deal out of nothing. From the promotional art I've seen this is the least sexualized Lara's ever been.

And perhaps your tone wasn't 'hostile', but I've been receiving so much nit-picky flac for what was, for me, a throw-away statement akin to "It's weird that she's making an O-face here," that I'm really starting to feel bogged down and attacked. Not just by you.

Tenmar:

Catie Caraco:
[
3) If she was trying to remove she'd actually wrap her hand around it. I, personally, see no gesture indicating she's trying to remove it.

I just want to remind you of one LITTLE detail that you seem to miss out on if you would watch the video gain.

Lara was SWEPT AWAY BY THE RAGING RAPIDS that once impaled is not going to somehow stop pushing her body the way the current is flowing. She has a force pushing against her that was the reason of said impalement and why you apparently think she isn't trying to remove said branch from her neck that would stop her capability to breath. But hey, let's just go with what you think that Lara just loves caressing the very thing that kills her in the most pornographic way possible and ignore all context, physics and circumstance that everyone else realizes except you because of your inability to analyze a situation from multiple perspectives.

I love how you keep putting words in my mouth. I was responding to SOMEONE else saying she was trying to remove it. I didn't say that's what it looked like. I know that if you've been impaled by something you leave it the hell alone or you bleed out, like Steve Irwin. I also never called the scene torture porn, like you accused me of, so now you're jumping on something else I DIDN'T even say. So I'm done with you.

He raises an excellent point: How does her shirt stay on?

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