Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

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Mid Boss:
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To further iterate your point I found this site to be quite useful.

But you did forget to mention that there are still places around the world where women are nothing more than property, and have no rights to speak of (looks at the middle east). China (and I may be speaking out of my ass on this one) still values a baby boy more than a baby girl. Sometimes they are even discarded.

In other news, people are still offended more by slang than bloodshed and massacres.

You special people are so cute.

Smilomaniac:
In other news, people are still offended more by slang than bloodshed and massacres.

You special people are so cute.

Hold up, is it bloodshed and massacres of women? If it is, then it's definitely something people will get offended over.

Nature didn't exactly equip women with the upper hand when it comes to holding their own in physical violence, so they are classified into the same category as children and the elderly. I.e. groups that if any dare raise a hand against, in fiction or real life, society will look down upon the attacker with 10x more disgust.

I mean look at that whole bus-rape incident in India, boy that was nuts. Endless protests for better protection for women, I'll have to wholeheartedly agree. I mean if it was a bus full of gangsters and they had all killed each other with swords, people would've given two fucks lol, "sigh just another quarrel among men".

Shadowstar38:
This is really damn stupid. I know we all want to be PC for no reason nowadays, but this is a pointless change. Some people need to grow up.

It's as I always say:

Political correctness is the new racism.

This being the perfect example. I'd say it's more offensive to get pissy about a reference to Kratos violently fighting a female enemy, when apparently the hellishly graphic destruction he reaps on the male/non-gender specific enemies is perfectly fine than it is just to treat this achievement the same as any other achievement in the game with a pun title.

Equality: The perception and treatment of two things on the same level to the point where they may as well be indistinguishable.

That's not what this is.

Aaron Sylvester:

Hold up, is it bloodshed and massacres of women? If it is, then it's definitely something people will get offended over.

Nature didn't exactly equip women with the upper hand when it comes to holding their own in physical violence, so they are classified into the same category as children and the elderly. I.e. groups that if any dare raise a hand against, in fiction or real life, society will look down upon the attacker with 10x more disgust.

You summed up pretty nicely exactly why we(as in humanity) are not mature enough to handle this debate.
As long as people see so huge differences between genders and keep their preconceptions of women as being defenseless, we'll never have any genuine equality.

Smilomaniac:
You summed up pretty nicely exactly why we(as in humanity) are not mature enough to handle this debate.
As long as people see so huge differences between genders and keep their preconceptions of women as being defenseless, we'll never have any genuine equality.

What preconceptions? Look at the statistics. Men are raping women 99.9999999% of the time, men have been holding power women for 99.99999% of history. Obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I'm not far off the real figures.
I have no such thing as "preconceptions". All I have are facts. Facts you have to goddamn face, like the prime one that men and women are NOT equal.
I am 100% in agreement when people say men and women deserve equal RIGHTS. Yes, of course they do. But men and women are NOT equal in every way, there is a huge gaping difference and you can't just shovel sand over the reality of things. And reality is, even today a lot of women in 3rd world countries are getting oppressed by men who hold power over them. Almost every_single_culture and society has seen women oppressed in some form or the other. It has never been the other way around, not in recorded history anyway.

So first you need to learn to deal with THAT, and then we can become "mature enough to handle this debate" lol. There is only one way this is getting solved and that is if MEN choose stop the violence and rape of women. The decision ultimately lies with men, the prime offenders, the overwhelming majority of the culprits. It's as simple as that.

Aaron Sylvester:

What preconceptions? Look at the statistics. Men are raping women 99.9999999% of the time, men have been holding power women for 99.99999% of history. Obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I'm not far off the real figures.
I have no such thing as "preconceptions". All I have are facts. Facts you have to goddamn face, like the prime one that men and women are NOT equal.
I am 100% in agreement when people say men and women deserve equal RIGHTS. Yes, of course they do. But men and women are NOT equal in every way, there is a huge gaping difference and you can't just shovel sand over the reality of things. And reality is, even today a lot of women in 3rd world countries are getting oppressed by men who hold power over them. Almost every_single_culture and society has seen women oppressed in some form or the other. It has never been the other way around, not in recorded history anyway.

So first you need to learn to deal with THAT, and then we can become "mature enough to handle this debate" lol. There is only one way this is getting solved and that is if MEN choose stop the violence and rape of women. The decision ultimately lies with men, the prime offenders, the overwhelming majority of the culprits. It's as simple as that.

I actually didn't assume that you thought women are weak, nor am I accusing you of being immature or even trying to argue with you. It's just a statement, that humanity is in no shape to argue the finer points of "sexism" and gender equality, which you first summed up nicely and then aptly demonstrated.

But since we're on the topic, let's talk about it.

I'm not sure why you're mentioning rape, it has nothing to do with social gender equality. It's bad, no matter who it happens to. Oddly enough the majority of sexism in rape-cases(in the western world) actually discriminates men on a daily basis, for no other reason than their gender. It's fairly ironic. Should it stop? Of course.

I have no interest in equal rights, meaning I don't really think about it, because I live in a country where there's no technical difference in rights. In fact there are laws that force all workplaces to treat men and women equally.
I can't really debate this point because I have little to no experience with extreme discrimination, so I'll leave that discussion to other people who actually have a stake in it.

I've never stated than men and women are the same, nor that I don't believe there are any physical differences.
However, I do believe that we're all people and are or should be subject to the same consequences and rewards depending on their actions. I don't believe in your statement, that the decision ultimately lies with men, because that would be the same as admitting that men are in the position to make that choice or that "we men" have that sort of power alone.
Try not to misunderstand me on this point, I'm not saying that logically women are just as capable of making a difference here, I'm saying that we shouldn't differentiate ourselves with women in the fight against rape and assume that men are the all powerful beings who will forever dictate terms.

Another thing is, that you and I have a conflict in the sense that we're not talking about the same thing.
This is not about the Middle East or Asia, where people in villages still wipe their asses with their hands and have no education or broad cultural experience to base their judgements on. That's what you brought up, and something that I specifically avoided quoting.
What I'm talking about are the ignorant and immature people that think "Bro's before Ho's" is a sexist offense and a cultural crime, here in the west.
People are so up in arms over sexism in the gaming community, because they need to be politically correct and have learned that you should treat women well. The irony is that that statement starts sexism, because it implies that women are somehow different enough that they have to be cared for and taken care of.

My point is this, as long as people stick to the physical differences and think they're the defining factor, we won't really learn anything. This is the problem that a worrying amount of feminists have, because they're not fighting for gender equality, they're fighting for special treatment and are further widening the gap between men and women.
The way I see it, women have to fight to make sure that men will see them as equals. If men do it for them, we will not have achieved anything.

Now, I don't know you, but I'm going to assume that you're straight.
I'm bisexual, meaning I've faced discrimination raning from harmless jokes to actual physical confrontation, which puts me in a position that is likely a lot nearer to what women face on a daily basis, than you.
My point being, that you can keep any remarks of what I have to face or deal with, for yourself.

Aaron Sylvester:

Smilomaniac:
You summed up pretty nicely exactly why we(as in humanity) are not mature enough to handle this debate.
As long as people see so huge differences between genders and keep their preconceptions of women as being defenseless, we'll never have any genuine equality.

What preconceptions? Look at the statistics. Men are raping women 99.9999999% of the time, men have been holding power women for 99.99999% of history. Obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I'm not far off the real figures.
I have no such thing as "preconceptions". All I have are facts. Facts you have to goddamn face, like the prime one that men and women are NOT equal.
I am 100% in agreement when people say men and women deserve equal RIGHTS. Yes, of course they do. But men and women are NOT equal in every way, there is a huge gaping difference and you can't just shovel sand over the reality of things. And reality is, even today a lot of women in 3rd world countries are getting oppressed by men who hold power over them. Almost every_single_culture and society has seen women oppressed in some form or the other. It has never been the other way around, not in recorded history anyway.

So first you need to learn to deal with THAT, and then we can become "mature enough to handle this debate" lol. There is only one way this is getting solved and that is if MEN choose stop the violence and rape of women. The decision ultimately lies with men, the prime offenders, the overwhelming majority of the culprits. It's as simple as that.

There's nothing that people like you and me can do to stop those people with overreactive sex drives though, they will continue to become uncontrollable even at the sight of a woman and be protected time and time again by our revolving door prison system where police do not even warn us of violent sex offenders released back into the populous.

Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of God of War, don't quote me if I say something silly or slightly off... At least not too much...

I've lurked for over a year and chose to avoid the Mass Effect and She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named threads... Mostly interested in this one because it had some amusing .gif files. I don't intend to stick around for this one but I feel like posting something.

Anyway, the original trophy name shouldn't be seen as a threat or signal of misogyny on a number of levels. First, we have the context in which the trophy appears, I'm sure this video has been posted a couple of times or so prior but I'm trying to make a point and someone is going to speak as if Kratos said it after slaying all of the Furies and female character in God of War's lore while reviving the male ones with a toothy grin.

And what really happened was...

Oh. It was a little message complimenting the fact you got a new MacGuffin a while after:
(Kratos is too manly to get a trophy for being saved right?)

1) You seemingly kill one of the Furies. Remember, these are antagonists, not even civilians who get used as doorstops literally by our lovely protagonist in other titles or killed just because.
2) You are ambushed and trapped by the three Furies, with the initial beating (which isn't that significant by the standards set in the series, against women or not) being shown to be an illusion. Hence, any drama based on the violence is completely out of hand as in canon, she wasn't injured and more importantly bad guys die in this franchise and okay guys too.
3) You are saved by some guy (sorry for the lack of interest in the details), chat with him for a while then he leaves giving you something shiny which gets you the trophy.

While, all of this happens in a few minutes, the timing is not only a little late arguably to wait for the action to cooldown a bit. The occurrence is connected to a man saving another man, instead of going with whatever the Furies' interests want. "Bros before Hos" as a meme is something referenced even by House M.D., a show I have yet to watch of, but I find it hard to believe that something with deaths left and right can't pass with a tongue in cheek trophy while the lead of a Sherlock Holmes inspired Medical Drama gets to do this...

image

We shouldn't really hold this game to a higher standard (Yes, it is debatable how high it should be) as far as being polite to the ladies goes, it is based on Greek Mythology and part of a series based around someone indifferent to one's sex in the act of killing them, especially when it comes to antagonists. Non-linear and stealth games aside, that's how games go whether you are fighting the Sun or lines of blocks. Fortunately, the replacement name is basically the same thing. Even more amusing than before, still highlighting the same concept (perhaps implying that "hoes are the foes" hence "women are the enemy" :O).

I'll agree that trophies can have some effect on how a game feels and recommend Jim Sterling's article of the topic (http://www.destructoid.com/god-of-war-bros-before-hos-248381.phtml), however not only is the intent in a different direction to the massive response, the scene doesn't play out in a way that compliments the "feminist interpretation" and the name of the trophy was written in by a female producer (https://twitter.com/ToddPapy/status/309746549125152768) though I dislike implying that a man wouldn't be able to do it tastefully... >_> Or that the man wouldn't be respected for the decision on the basis that he is a man.

image

Thanks for the image, Casual Shinji.
It does feel good to love your fellow brethren.

Smilomaniac:
People are so up in arms over sexism in the gaming community, because they need to be politically correct and have learned that you should treat women well. The irony is that that statement starts sexism, because it implies that women are somehow different enough that they have to be cared for and taken care of.

Well, in an ideal world you'd be correct, sadly it isn't an ideal world. Evidence of that is plenty as women in gaming, both in the industry and simply on the playing side, are infinitely more likely to get harassed, ignored or ridiculed purely for their gender than for their actual behaviour, ideas, or gameplay.

#1reasonwhy happened for, well, a good reason. Women still don't get treated as they should on the workfloor in the gaming industry. They shouldn't be given strange looks if they bring up the point that a woman's armour is completely impractical and no one would wear it while a man's armour in the same game is 100% pragmatic in its design. Or earn less while doing the same work, or whatever else that series of tweets brought to light.

There also is a reason why you don't see many, if any girls in competitive gaming, as Street Fighter x Tekken showed (and countless CoD matches), women will get discriminated against purely because of their gender, so of course they'll stop playing games online if they can't simply have fun without someone insulting them or trying to hit on them just because they're girls on the internet. A site like http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ shouldn't have to exist.

And that is the real problem, this flipping trophy isn't a problem, it's a dumb stupid trophy that shouldn't exist, along with all other joke trophies that pull you out of the experience while playing a game's story mode, but it isn't the problem and all this bickering about it pulls attention away from the real problem. So yes, maybe women do need a bit of help. I fully believe that women are every bit as strong and capable as men, but the numbers are against them right now so maybe we should engage in some old fashioned chivalry and tell someone off if you see one of your fellow gamers dissing someone just for being a woman. Perhaps even report them if the game in question has such functions. I'd of course trust you to do the same if someone harasses a man in a video game, we shouldn't allow toxic behaviour to be aimed at anyone, regardless of gender. If you just let jerks have their way the situation will never change.

to be honest i see nothing wrong with bros before hos.

One: It does not inherently refer to all women ergo it is not sexist. It can for example only refer to shady women who sleep around and not say others. A meritocratic mindset is at hand here.

Two: CHicks before dicks is a thing and no one cries foul.

Three:Im a lover a dark humor and I dont like this sensitivity train that gaming is on. I believe in equality but I believe this is not the way to go.

edit: on a side note, any woman who haranged my goals as well as these did would probably create such ire in me that calling them anything would be fair game.

Mid Boss:

SaneAmongInsane:

Yeah, no, sorry. Comparing the quest for Feminist equality to the civil rights movement grossly understates the struggle of the black men and women went through. Both racist and sexist views are equally wrong, but referring a woman as a prostitute is no were near as bad as calling someone a racial slur that was designed to dehumanize and therefore make it socially acceptable to ENSLAVE an entire race of people. And yes, I know of the illegal human trafficking, and I'm also aware it's ILLEGAL where as enslavement of black people was not only socially acceptable but LEGAL for a long fucking time and didn't end in America at least until we fought a fucking war about it.

Really? Well, Jesus, I could have swore women had to fight for all the same rights minorities had to. I must have missed that part in the history books where one day all of women kind woke up and suddenly had the right to own property, to vote, to get educations, equal pay, and not get beaten by their husbands.

Kiss my grits I need to crack open those old books and do some editing because dehumanizing slurs used against women are in no way comparable to the ones used against minorities. Wow we'll even need to edit the Bible. Let's see here

Deutreronomy 28 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found"
29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

We'll just change that to

Deutreronomy 28 "Happy Fun Time!"
29 "Kittens!"

Wheew. Dodged the bullet there. That ALMOST sounded like, by religious law, rapist are to compensate their victims fathers for damage of property and that victims are required to marry their assailants.

Good thing you came along and set me straight. I never knew women had it so good.

Oh it's been a while since I've busted this out:

You're going to reach back into biblical law, largely abandoned by the western world, when it wasn't more than a life time ago that certain people couldn't drink from the same water fountain?

Yeah, misogyny =/= slavery.

I must of missed that part of history class where the klan were burning crosses on the lawns of feminist and threatening to hang them. Remember Emma Till? That 14 year old girl that brutally murdered for WHISTLING at a married man? Yeah. The struggles of women, direct parable to the sufferings of black people. Yep.

SaneAmongInsane:
I must of missed that part of history class where the klan were burning crosses on the lawns of feminist and threatening to hang them. Remember Emma Till? That 14 year old girl that brutally murdered for WHISTLING at a married man? Yeah. The struggles of women, direct parable to the sufferings of black people. Yep.

One out of every three women on this planet will be either raped or abused by a partner. That's pretty fucked up.

And goddamnit, it is a civil rights issue, comparable in every way to the struggles of African-Americans. It wasn't until about 1975 that laws against legal pay discrimination, segregation, spousal rape, and involuntary internment were struck down for women - and be clear, that doesn't mean that these problems have disappeared. To claim that somehow women have not struggled greatly in the last three centuries for their human dignity in the face of massive social, legal, economic, and cultural barriers is to show an understanding of world history that borders on willfully ignorant.

peruvianskys:

SaneAmongInsane:
I must of missed that part of history class where the klan were burning crosses on the lawns of feminist and threatening to hang them. Remember Emma Till? That 14 year old girl that brutally murdered for WHISTLING at a married man? Yeah. The struggles of women, direct parable to the sufferings of black people. Yep.

One out of every three women on this planet will be either raped or abused by a partner.

That's pretty fucked up.

Slave owners use to rape their women, only under legal definition of law it was not considered rape because they were legally property and it was socially acceptable. Those slave women would give birth, the slave owners would then likely sell their own kin to other slave owners. Arguably, that's pretty fucked up too. Even more so in my humble opinion because there was a time in our RECENT history where this was not only socially acceptable but completely legal and all based around black people not being considered people.

Wrong is wrong, but comparing the social injustice to the struggles of a group of people that were really not that long ago?

SaneAmongInsane:
Slave owners use to rape their women, only under legal definition of law it was not considered rape because they were legally property and it was socially acceptable. Those slave women would give birth, the slave owners would then likely sell their own kin to other slave owners. Arguably, that's pretty fucked up too. Even more so in my humble opinion because there was a time in our RECENT history where this was not only socially acceptable but completely legal and all based around black people not being considered people.

Wrong is wrong, but comparing the social injustice to the struggles of a group of people that were really not that long ago?

Women weren't considered "people" up until about 1800 either, and they got their right to vote after African-Americans. Even today, racism directed people of color, while hideous, does not manifest in the intense violence that many women face; while you may hear of a vicious hate crime targeting a black person every week or so, a woman is raped - and make no mistake, rape is a hate crime - in America every couple minutes.

I'm not trying to say that one has it worse than the other. It's less a direct comparison (although one can easily be made) and more a simple acknowledgement that women have struggled for equality, respect, and dignity in the past - and an even more simple admission that their struggle is not over. Reading this thread, I come across so many people who seem just incapable of understanding the historical context of feminism or its continued relevance to the life of women the world over. I'm simply trying to point out that many of us take offense at things like this not simply because they are themselves horrible but because they represent, encourage, and justify the attitudes and opinions that motivate the continued marginalization of and violence towards women.

The problem is that too many people here have no reference point; they have no understanding of what it is like to be watching a movie, listening to a song, or playing a video game and seeing something pop up that makes them feel like they aren't welcome. Straight, white men like me and the majority, it seems, of this board, are in a state of perpetual acceptance. It's hard to put yourself in another person's shoes, and we're just trying to point out how microaggressions like this contribute to a culture that alienates women. The fact that people respond with such venom just shows that misogyny is far from dead.

peruvianskys:

SaneAmongInsane:
I must of missed that part of history class where the klan were burning crosses on the lawns of feminist and threatening to hang them. Remember Emma Till? That 14 year old girl that brutally murdered for WHISTLING at a married man? Yeah. The struggles of women, direct parable to the sufferings of black people. Yep.

One out of every three women on this planet will be either raped or abused by a partner. That's pretty fucked up.

And goddamnit, it is a civil rights issue, comparable in every way to the struggles of African-Americans. It wasn't until about 1975 that laws against legal pay discrimination, segregation, spousal rape, and involuntary internment were struck down for women - and be clear, that doesn't mean that these problems have disappeared. To claim that somehow women have not struggled greatly in the last three centuries for their human dignity in the face of massive social, legal, economic, and cultural barriers is to show an understanding of world history that borders on willfully ignorant.

So.... The struggles of women's equal rights is equal to this scene from Roots here, where the slave breaker continually whips the slave here until his spirit breaks...

Oh and I wish I could of found the scene where they were transporting them on the boats, and the white men decide they have to get rid of some of their stock so they tie the end of a chain of them around a huge rock and kick it overboard dragging about 50 black men, women, and children to a watery grave. Look, spousal rape is a huge problem, womens rights are a thing I support but comparing them to the struggles of black people grossly over simplifys their struggle.

peruvianskys:

SaneAmongInsane:
Slave owners use to rape their women, only under legal definition of law it was not considered rape because they were legally property and it was socially acceptable. Those slave women would give birth, the slave owners would then likely sell their own kin to other slave owners. Arguably, that's pretty fucked up too. Even more so in my humble opinion because there was a time in our RECENT history where this was not only socially acceptable but completely legal and all based around black people not being considered people.

Wrong is wrong, but comparing the social injustice to the struggles of a group of people that were really not that long ago?

Women weren't considered "people" up until about 1800 either, and they got their right to vote after African-Americans. Even today, racism directed people of color, while hideous, does not manifest in the intense violence that many women face; while you may hear of a vicious hate crime targeting a black person every week or so, a woman is raped - and make no mistake, rape is a hate crime - in America every couple minutes.

I'm not trying to say that one has it worse than the other. It's less a direct comparison (although one can easily be made) and more a simple acknowledgement that women have struggled for equality, respect, and dignity in the past - and an even more simple admission that their struggle is not over. Reading this thread, I come across so many people who seem just incapable of understanding the historical context of feminism or its continued relevance to the life of women the world over. I'm simply trying to point out that many of us take offense at things like this not simply because they are themselves horrible but because they represent, encourage, and justify the attitudes and opinions that motivate the continued marginalization of and violence towards women.

The problem is that too many people here have no reference point; they have no understanding of what it is like to be watching a movie, listening to a song, or playing a video game and seeing something pop up that makes them feel like they aren't welcome. Straight, white men like me and the majority, it seems, of this board, are in a state of perpetual acceptance. It's hard to put yourself in another person's shoes, and we're just trying to point out how microaggressions like this contribute to a culture that alienates women. The fact that people respond with such venom just shows that misogyny is far from dead.

Okay, well Mid Boss was expressing that struggles of women's rights were EQUAL to that of the hardship of black people.

Church185:

Mid Boss:
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image

To further iterate your point I found this site to be quite useful.

But you did forget to mention that there are still places around the world where women are nothing more than property, and have no rights to speak of (looks at the middle east). China (and I may be speaking out of my ass on this one) still values a baby boy more than a baby girl. Sometimes they are even discarded.

I was talking strictly the western world.

SaneAmongInsane:
Okay, well Mid Boss was expressing that struggles of women's rights were EQUAL to that of the hardship of black people.

Yeah, I kinda came in halfway there. The whole Olympics of suffering thing that can occur when one tries to directly compare two horrible but unique histories is never fruitful. I was simply trying to point out that some on this forum who have essentially stated, "Stop whining, women, black people were the ones who really suffered!" are grossly underestimating the struggle of women around the world, both historically and in the present day. Apologies for any confusion.

peruvianskys:

SaneAmongInsane:
Okay, well Mid Boss was expressing that struggles of women's rights were EQUAL to that of the hardship of black people.

Yeah, I kinda came in halfway there. The whole Olympics of suffering thing that can occur when one tries to directly compare two horrible but unique histories is never fruitful. I was simply trying to point out that some on this forum who have essentially stated, "Stop whining, women, black people were the ones who really suffered!" are grossly underestimating the struggle of women around the world, both historically and in the present day. Apologies for any confusion.

Nah I get it. Equality is important, I certainly agree. I've been taking a great deal of time recently delving into the struggles of blacks and racism the past month working on Senior Thesis so I see someone trying to make a direct comparison to that it's like... Really? Gay rights advocates do it too, and yeah parables are there with hates crimes like Mathew Sheppard but it's still an entire race of people enslaved! ya know?

Slavery and The Holocaust I think are two situations brought about minority groups that should never be compared in terms of "These struggles are just like those struggles."

Maybe if one is a women in the middle east, then... wouldn't say it's still direct, but they would stone a women to death there for showing a bit of ankle. But if one is a average middle class white women in the suburbs of north america? ehhhhh

I want remark that this kind of dumb topics are the reason why PETA keeps fucking with our games and stuffs, you see, we take a moment of stupidity in a game charged of violence, murder and gore and say, "Oh no, misoginy! Let´s point it", Why doesn´t call the game misantropic then? or mis...theist or whatever... the next thing we´ll have to deal with will be PETA asking us for think in the minotaurs feelings.

ITS A FUCKING GAME!!!!, I´m against that kind of behavior, but in real life, If anyone can prove me that one idiot punchline after one fight improves the misoginy in general or that is the evidence of the real colors of the Dev team (wich is hard considering this is a GoW game) i will shut up my mouth and say, ok... change the name, and also give Kratos the option to not kill the foes and give them ice cream, till then... come on people. I feel good and bad about the name change, good cause its new see a dev team that hear the critics and do something about, and bad cause all that critics could be better, I wanna be a game journalist like Adam, maybe in that case Santa Monica will do my dreamed GoW4 when Kratos raise the survivors of humanity against the ghost of athena and fix the chaos he cause on his long, long, long uproar

Also, think about Gow3 for a second, if the Poseidon Princess would being a man, There should be so much troubles? i don´t like the moment either, but before that i take like 40 women npc and foes and massacrate them, should i feel bad for the way Kratos pull of the gorgon snake hair, cause seems a caveman sexist behavior?

Pedro The Hutt:
Well, in an ideal world you'd be correct, sadly it isn't an ideal world. Evidence of that is plenty as women in gaming, both in the industry and simply on the playing side, are infinitely more likely to get harassed, ignored or ridiculed purely for their gender than for their actual behaviour, ideas, or gameplay.

First off, I'm not saying that there isn't any discrimination. That would be naive.

You're right, it's not an ideal world. It's not out of reach though, just be careful not to think of ideal as utopian. But maybe we could start out by shattering the ironic definitions people have of sexism and equality. That would be a nice first step that actually did a difference, opposed to people whining about an achievement or Collector's Edition bust.

Helping women achieving it would be acceptable, if they want it and ask for it.
What I mean is, that every time a "sexist" remark pops up here in the gaming community, the armies of white-knighters need to stop pretending that they're fighting on behalf of womens rights and against sexism. It's nice to see the enthusiasm, but the reasons and the thought process behind it are completely wrong.

I don't completely disagree with you about reporting bad behaviour, but you can't force opinions on people. That's why I firmly believe that any change in the world will have to come from women, they have to be able to hold their own, otherwise they'll never get the respect they deserve.
For us, for men, it basicly comes down to "don't be a dick". A nudge in the right direction won't harm, but it won't necessarily help.

Do you see where I'm going with this?
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm trying to point out the basic flaw in our "fight" against sexism in the gaming culture today.

SaneAmongInsane:
snip

Is that the entire basis of your argument that it happened more recently therefore it was worse and incomparable? Sadly I don't use sarcastic youtube clips or right now I'd post one to express how much that boggles my mind.

Thousand of years of oppression, all dismissed because it didn't happen recently enough. I'm walking away from this now. You have fun.

SaneAmongInsane:
I was talking strictly the western world.

Why? This is an international site, and the game was also released internationally. People here are getting upset because it is "just a game", and think that sexism isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. But, I'd like to think those people aren't looking at the big picture. Just because you don't see something, or it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that sex slavery is still a thing that exists all over the world.

Church185:

SaneAmongInsane:
I was talking strictly the western world.

Why? This is an international site, and the game was also released internationally. People here are getting upset because it is "just a game", and think that sexism isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. But, I'd like to think those people aren't looking at the big picture. Just because you don't see something, or it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that sex slavery is still a thing that exists all over the world.

Yeah, Sex Slavery is a thing. A very illegal thing, at least in the west.

lol international site. Aren't all public websites on the internet considered "international"? I speak specifically of the western world because by in large our world governments aren't founded upon Theocracy, or in a totalitarian state like China. Those sections of the world have a great deal of their own hurdles to accomplish before equal rights, ya know.... like having rights to begin with.

Mid Boss:

SaneAmongInsane:
snip

Is that the entire basis of your argument that it happened more recently therefore it was worse and incomparable? Sadly I don't use sarcastic youtube clips or right now I'd post one to express how much that boggles my mind.

Thousand of years of oppression, all dismissed because it didn't happen recently enough. I'm walking away from this now. You have fun.

No I see the error of my ways. The struggles of victorian women like Virginia Woolf are exactly like what Frederick Douglas went through.

And a strawman: Gays not being allowed to marry is exactly like Hitler gassing Jews in the holocaust.....

The basis of my argument is that the comparison of the struggles are completely disperportiant to the struggles or hardships.

SaneAmongInsane:
Yeah, Sex Slavery is a thing. A very illegal thing, at least in the west.

lol international site. Aren't all public websites on the internet considered "international"? I speak specifically of the western world because by in large our world governments aren't founded upon Theocracy, or in a totalitarian state like China. Those sections of the world have a great deal of their own hurdles to accomplish before equal rights, ya know.... like having rights to begin with.

Just because it is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1596778&page=1

Japan isn't a theocracy, nor is it a totalitarian state. But the social norms for females there are completely out of balance. Women are encouraged to go to school to work in the tourist industry, while men are encouraged to study business.

Daystar Clarion:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

This.

I'm surprised there's any sand left in the world, what with it being stuck in specific crevices ¬_¬

^Now THATS a funny joke XD

Church185:

SaneAmongInsane:
Yeah, Sex Slavery is a thing. A very illegal thing, at least in the west.

lol international site. Aren't all public websites on the internet considered "international"? I speak specifically of the western world because by in large our world governments aren't founded upon Theocracy, or in a totalitarian state like China. Those sections of the world have a great deal of their own hurdles to accomplish before equal rights, ya know.... like having rights to begin with.

Just because it is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1596778&page=1

Japan isn't a theocracy, nor is it a totalitarian state. But the social norms for females there are completely out of balance. Women are encouraged to go to school to work in the tourist industry, while men are encouraged to study business.

Yes, because working in the tourist industry = hanging a 14 year old black mail for whistling at a white woman.

"wah, wah, we made a game about ultra violence sexually non-pc"

Seriously? Seriously. Objectification of women aside, THIS is what makes them pull the 180 on their convictions?

as a casual observer this violent bludgeoning of the female antagonist seems to be par for the course for the God of War series, while its not done every 10 minutes apart from pandora, aphrodite and the women in the 'sex minigame' women in that Kratos meets tend not to fare well. There's this female antagonist, the sisters of fate, Athena, Posidons princess(the aforementioned doorstop), Hera, the gorgon's and the Oracle and Kratos wife and daughter, and Gai(the titan)...all of whom seem to either die by his hand or because him. And they response to me is idiotic..the don't even removed or change the boss woman getting murdered...they change the name of the trophy for killing her like that makes it all better!

Agente L:
So much for "artistic integrity", huh?

I know! They changed a whole word in one of the names of their trophies!
:( I don't think I'll even be able to tell if it's the same game anymore.....

On a more serious note; I got to say, the name in context of what you do to get it is a bit offencive.
That said, I agree more with Grey that the "joke" just isn't that funny.

Personally, I think calling it something like "The Final Step", or something of the like would be better. Puls Bros before Hoes doesn't really makes sense with Kratos.
I mean, when was the last time Kratos even had a "bro" to fight for, who didn't die soon after the fight/was dead already?

this thread going for 10 pages long is stupid

BOTH party's should get over it......

seriously what is it we are arguing over again?

(though I'll admit I do get pretty sick of the OMG U GUYZ PC POLICE! crowd..they are more annoying than those who do take issue)

Vault101:
this thread going for 10 pages long is stupid

BOTH party's should get over it......

seriously what is it we are arguing over again?

(though I'll admit I do get pretty sick of the OMG U GUYZ PC POLICE! crowd..they are more annoying than those who do take issue)

Remember the "controversial" Lara Croft attempted-rape scene that spiked multiple threads like this one? What happened to that?
Oh yeah, after the actual game was released, got great scores/reviews, found to be possibly the best Tomb Raider game to date...all those fuckers who stirred-up the controversy over that 15-second scene in the first place? Yeah, they vanished, or hopped onto another bandwagon.

Because thanks to internet anonymity, nobody needs to face the consequences of bullshit accusations and attempts at attention-grabbing, they can simply sly away back into the shadows. More importantly, the developers didn't need to remove that scene, they held their stance and kept it in the game because they wanted it to be there.

This is basically a repeat of the above, except that this time the developers actually changed something...how stupid of them, they basically inflated the issue even more by doing that.
I guess Santa Monica studios didn't realize that once GoW:Ascension was released, the controversy would've been forgotten in roughly 60 seconds (no really, 60 seconds) and the retards would've find something else to latch onto. Rinse and repeat.

It was really that simple, I wish developers could keep it simple.

AgDr_ODST:
as a casual observer this violent bludgeoning of the female antagonist seems to be par for the course for the God of War series, while its not done every 10 minutes apart from pandora, aphrodite and the women in the 'sex minigame' women in that Kratos meets tend not to fare well. There's this female antagonist, the sisters of fate, Athena, Posidons princess(the aforementioned doorstop), Hera, the gorgon's and the Oracle and Kratos wife and daughter, and Gai(the titan)...all of whom seem to either die by his hand or because him. And they response to me is idiotic..the don't even removed or change the boss woman getting murdered...they change the name of the trophy for killing her like that makes it all better!

That's a joke, right? Kratos kills countless men, which is no problem, but when it comes to the fact that he's killing women, then you're all up in arms? By that logic, the life of a woman is worth more than that of a man. Every man that Kratos seem's to come by comes to the same fate. They shouldn't change it, by principle, there's nothing sexist about it, or offensive, it's all being taken too far.

Krantos:
Honestly, in this instance I thin-

*looks at previous comments*

Whelp, that escalated quickly.

image

Seriously, you really can't talk about sexism issues here can you?

Sums up the thread for me. Oh hey, an achievement using a douchebag/bromance saying, that isn't too ba- OHGODWHY?

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