Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

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What's this? A popular culture reference used in popular shows/movies like House and the first Transformers movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk6s3mp0aSE) as a trophy? Well that's kinda cute, but I don-...

10 pages? Okay...Well...I guess this is proof that context is apparently everything.

Ignoring the thousands of males and females that Kratos slaughters this is...or at least shouldn't be this big of a deal. It's not going to have 15/18 year olds be all like "YEAH! I OPPRESSED THAT FEMALE SLAG FOR THE PATRIARCHY! RAPE CULTURE ACTIVATE! *60's Batman Transition*" (Did I miss any particularly important words?).

If it does by some miracle they're about as stable as a one legged dog with psychosis and have clearly much bigger issues. While I find the God of War games...mediocre at best (I honestly can't play more than an hour of one) it's amazing how sensitive people are over some things...

JemothSkarii:
(I honestly can't play more than an hour of one) it's amazing how sensitive people are over some things...

Honestly it's less about how sensitive people are over some things, and more about how much ATTENTION said people are getting by the media/news sites in 2012-2013.
It's all about where the spotlight is focused, and currently it will happily focus on anyone who is ranting about any form of discrimination even if said person has absolutely no fucking clue what they're talking about, or the context (as you said), or twisting the facts/data to suit their bias, or just plain retarded. Anita Sarkeesian is probably the best example to date of all four of those things...a shining diamond of an example.

I'll again bring up Tomb Raider's "controversy" (you know, the almost-rape scene) and how quickly everyone got over that once they realized the game had released, the developers had stood their ground and hadn't changed shit, the game turned out to be really good, etc.

Where did all those people go and what about the controversy? Did it all vanish? Or did the spotlight simply move on?

It's stuff like that which makes me wonder, who are the true retards here...the politically-correct idiots themselves, or the ones controlling the spotlight? I say the ones controlling the spotlight. There will always be retards, it's up to the media to stop putting them on a fucking pedestal. That's what this entire topic is about, retards on a pedestal. God Of War developers only made it worse by actually listening to the retards, so now they're all going "OH, SO THEY ADMITTED TO IT! SEXIST! MISOGYNIST! ARGLEGARBLEFARGLEGRAAAAA"

TecnoMonkey:

DVS BSTrD:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

The title of the trophy had NOTHING to do with Kratos beating up that "woman", who actually is not a woman she is more of a demon with some female features, it had to do with the son of one of the "female" antagonists saving Kratos against her mothers wishes, the beating itself isn't even that violent by Kratos's standards, see for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3L2de3ucLg

...People are enraged over that?
Seriously?

How is anyone even remotely close to linking the two together?

MarlonBlazed:
https://twitter.com/ToddPapy/status/309746549125152768 I guess this makes her a misogynist... She clearly put bros before hoes.

Please tell me I can still give effort points to the woman who thought it up by playing offline, getting the trophy, then going online and syncing.

It seems more sexist to not let Kratos kill her..

Equality is Kratos killing, men, women, demons and kittens equally..

racrevel:
It seems more sexist to not let Kratos kill her..

Equality is Kratos killing, men, women, demons and kittens equally..

I would assume that's why the protest was about the achievement, and not the act.

Ok, people the joke is "We've turned this phrase into a joke about beating up a woman." When you turn a somewhat innocent phrase (although seeing as it's about putting your friends before your girlfriend and referring to said girlfriend as a "ho", I'd argue its innocence) into a euphemism for beating up women, that's kind of an issue. There's nothing wrong with having female antagonists, but when beating her is funny BECAUSE she's a woman it's a problem.

It's funny, I know I'll be accused of being overly sensitive and too PC here, while in an Anita Sarkeesian thread I'll usually get accused of being a mouth breathing misogynist.

After watching the actual scene on YouTube I really don't get what the fuss is about? Sure, he beats her in a completely gruesome way but a moment later she's back to normal and unscathed. I'm not into games or movies with gore but I think this achievement has been really blown out of proportion.

Spot1990:
Ok, people the joke is "We've turned this phrase into a joke about beating up a woman." When you turn a somewhat innocent phrase (although seeing as it's about putting your friends before your girlfriend and referring to said girlfriend as a "ho", I'd argue its innocence) into a euphemism for beating up women, that's kind of an issue. There's nothing wrong with having female antagonists, but when beating her is funny BECAUSE she's a woman it's a problem.

It's funny, I know I'll be accused of being overly sensitive and too PC here, while in an Anita Sarkeesian thread I'll usually get accused of being a mouth breathing misogynist.

Actually the achievement had NOTHING to do with Kratos beating up that woman. It was about what happened after.

I can kinda see the problem.

The fact that the act of violence in question is aimed towards a woman doesn't bother me. It's in keeping with the tone of the God of War series and it's dark fantasy themes and the frequetly dark and violent Greek mythology upon which the series draws it's influence.

Also, the "Bros before hos" achievement in and of itself doesn't really bother me. It's a stupid phrase to be sure but I don't have any problem with it.

The problem, as many people have pointed out, is that when you take the achievement and award it to the player in such a flippant tone after committing the aforementioned act of violence it does strike a tonal shift that I can understand being a little off putting.

Kratos is an equal opportunity killer. Men, women and gender neutral proto-forms are fair game to his murderous rage.
It is the achievement and it's wording that contextualizes that act not as a reward for Kratos overcoming his enemy, but instead as praise for Kratos beating a woman.

*Edit*

Double Post, nothing to see here.

Church185:

Yes dehumanizing women. Ho is short for whore, which is a synonym of prostitute. People refer to some women as hoes, because it makes it seem like they are less of a person and shouldn't be treated with the respect they deserve.


Watch the video, seems like you are in immediate need to learn about jumping to conclusions.

No, "bros before hoes" doesn't dehumanize women anymore than "chicks before dicks" dehumanizes men. You are seeing connections where there are none. Just because a person utters the phrase "bros before hoes", it doesn't mean that they are dehumanizing women or support dehumanizing women anymore than a person who recites "Remember remember the fifth of November" supports Catholic sectarian violence against England.

Church185:

The change was made by the development team before the game even shipped. Apparently they thought it reflected badly on them as well, because it didn't take much pressure for them to cave and change it.

More likely that they didn't want to put up with people making wild accusations that they were "dehumanizing women" and that they caved into pressure.

Spot1990:
Ok, people the joke is "We've turned this phrase into a joke about beating up a woman." When you turn a somewhat innocent phrase (although seeing as it's about putting your friends before your girlfriend and referring to said girlfriend as a "ho", I'd argue its innocence) into a euphemism for beating up women, that's kind of an issue. There's nothing wrong with having female antagonists, but when beating her is funny BECAUSE she's a woman it's a problem.

It's funny, I know I'll be accused of being overly sensitive and too PC here, while in an Anita Sarkeesian thread I'll usually get accused of being a mouth breathing misogynist.

Why is that the joke? That doesn't even make sense in context. Why does it have to relate to the violence at all when it doesn't even unlock in a violent scene? It's only a silly nod to the fact that 2 male characters have allied, it relates to a shift in the narrative... it has nothing to do with stomping on women's faces or whatever.

Tropies are often bad-puns, nods to popular culture memes and other such nonsense. There was likely not a lot of thought put into this at all, let alone some concerted effort to make any kind of gender-political statement. There's no depth to analyse.

Honestly, why would anyone assume malicious intent ahead of an arguable lapse in good-taste or humour? We should collectively ask the gaming-news-outlets to stop trying to sell us this shite as legitimate controversy.

Randomeaninglessword:
Doesn't Kratos kill thousands of people? What's the big deal about a joke at the expense of one more? I would consider both genders equal, so I'd hazard a guess and say that women can handle a trophy name. It would appear Mr. Sessler feels otherwise.

Leave your presumptions somewhere else and speak for no one but yourself. Feel free to disagree with the man but, please, for your own sake, don't keep living in a bubble where you assume that most people think like you do. Bare minimum, you don't really get to guess what women think unless you're a woman. And even then, generalizing would be foolish.

Alex Mac:

Randomeaninglessword:
Doesn't Kratos kill thousands of people? What's the big deal about a joke at the expense of one more? I would consider both genders equal, so I'd hazard a guess and say that women can handle a trophy name. It would appear Mr. Sessler feels otherwise.

Leave your presumptions somewhere else and speak for no one but yourself. Feel free to disagree with the man but, please, for your own sake, don't keep living in a bubble where you assume that most people think like you do. Bare minimum, you don't really get to guess what women think unless you're a woman. And even then, generalizing would be foolish.

I wasn't aware women were beyond logic, a sense of humour, and thinking like other people. My mistake, I should have realized that I was living in a bubble, and that women were some completely different species that thinks in ways I can't even imagine with my feeble male brain.

I am making an assumption, yes, but I'd say it's reasonable considering the fact that most of the people I know can take a joke, and seperate a joke from an actual insult.

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Thank you sir for summing up my thoughts rather well.
How salty are people going to get over a catchphrase before the world's noodle supply has no flavor left?

DVS BSTrD:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

Well after reading the comments, I'm just gonna withdraw my statement as many have said what I have already tried to say.
I just don't really see the point of even raising attention about changing an achievement other than "LOOK AT ME! LOOK WHAT I DID!"

"Shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards"? Surely you're joking, Grey. This scene hardly shockingly violent in contrast to the standard of the series. Even the "human doorstop" scene in the third game is more violent, and that wasn't even a boss kill.

The uproar over this is absolutely ridiculous. The joke isn't even about him beating up a woman, as many before me already pointed out. It is about how Kratos teams up with *insert name here* against said women for a cause, which we will not discuss because of spoiler territory (which is why I didn't mention his name).

Grow some thicker skin, please. Out of all the women I know who play video games, none take offense to this. Granted, none of us are laughing either (maybe a snicker at best), but offense? Please.

Just finished this part of the game. I was expecting something more than....well nothing.

I have to assume Adam Sessler lied about or exaggerated the scene because he either never played it, or wanted attention.

Yeah... nothing as bad as the article or Mr Sessler implied. Certainly not the most violent thing Kratos has ever done. There have been more brutal, stunning and hateful deaths that man has perpetrated. Killing Zues, and Helios come to mind from God of War 3. The bludgeoning and impaling to me don't compare to the close up screen of a man having his head torn off, or the brutal minute long bludgeoning of zues. This is also the reason I don't really play these games at all. Just don't like that level of nonsenscical violence.

At the end of it all the death scene was near provably not the most graphics kills. The frat boy line makes some what sense in context. The context being the son sided with kratos over his mothers, not the brutal psuedo killing of a woman. The phrase is still dumb, and changing it really isn't that big a deal. This is however not like a horrible example of misogyny in the industry. Would have thought he'd get more mad at the arbitrary sex minigame. To me that's more misogynistic.

This thread is... just wow. 11 pages over the change of a single letter in an achievement? Just... I have no words.

And it's odd to see that the people who don't see a problem with it all assume that their opposition has the same attitude Mr Sessler had. I dislike the trophy's original name, not because it would be sexist or misogynistic (and there we have those 2 goddamn words again), or because it glorifies violence against women (which it doesn't), but because it shows how the developers thought we would find that stupid fratboy phrase funny (I don't). Its moment of popping up happened to be misplaced, and that's how it became far more icky than it was actually meant to be. This feels like the Dead Island statue controversy all over again.

And really, people think the violence is the issue here? At what point did anyone besides the overly sensitive Mr Sessler say that the violent act in itself was the problem?

The trophy, awarded once Kratos has finished pummeling a female antagonist in a shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards, was first called out by reviewer, Adam Sessler.

she gets punched and kicked in the face and then impaled on a spike, I haven't played any god of war and scene very little but I have seen kartos tearing off body parts from an enemy just to then impale them on it. I have also seen him gut several enemies alive. The scene also shows you beat up an illusion not a actual demon, and like many people have said the achievement is for the guy helping you and portraying his mothers. Also how many male characters have been brutally murdered and had achievements to mock their deaths.

[playing GoW] (bashing a guys face into a bloody pulp) "Bros before hos?" I am offended! (stomps on another guys face, while cutting out someones intestines with the Blades of Chaos) This is just disgusting and would only appeal to the immature! Oooh! Wow, his head came off and flew across the screen!

Madara XIII:
I wasn't aware women were beyond logic, a sense of humour, and thinking like other people. My mistake, I should have realized that I was living in a bubble, and that women were some completely different species that thinks in ways I can't even imagine with my feeble male brain.

Spare your condescension as well. At the end of the day, believe what *you* want to. Ask: does it offend *you*? If it doesn't, that's fine. It actually doesn't even offend me. But when you appeal to nuance, you also ignore anyone who might find it offensive (and there is actually fair enough cause to).

"I wasn't aware women were beyond..." doesn't come off as a statement championing the intellect of women, as well. It comes off as arrogance and condescension. "I thought women were better but.." Etc, etc.

People are nuanced, yes. And it's the exact thing that makes them have varied responses. Including those you don't agree with or understand. And the latter point is salient. You think you know what a woman might think? How? Why? Are you one? If not, why are you even talking about what a woman (or, worse, women as a group) might think?

Alex Mac:

Madara XIII:
I wasn't aware women were beyond logic, a sense of humour, and thinking like other people. My mistake, I should have realized that I was living in a bubble, and that women were some completely different species that thinks in ways I can't even imagine with my feeble male brain.

Spare your condescension as well. At the end of the day, believe what *you* want to. Ask: does it offend *you*? If it doesn't, that's fine. It actually doesn't even offend me. But when you appeal to nuance, you also ignore anyone who might find it offensive (and there is actually fair enough cause to).

"I wasn't aware women were beyond..." doesn't come off as a statement championing the intellect of women, as well. It comes off as arrogance and condescension. "I thought women were better but.." Etc, etc.

People are nuanced, yes. And it's the exact thing that makes them have varied responses. Including those you don't agree with or understand. And the latter point is salient. You think you know what a woman might think? How? Why? Are you one? If not, why are you even talking about what a woman (or, worse, women as a group) might think?

Don't you go and put words in my mouth, especially when that statement can in no way be interpreted in what I said.

I just said that I see no reason for Adam Sessler to raise such bullshit over a "controversial" achievement name and implied it had to deal with beating a woman.

If you actually looked into the matter you would see that the achievement you get is for escaping a Fury (Half Woman Half Demon) whose son saves you from her clutches after which Kratos calls her a derogatory name, thus earning the achievement; Bros before Hoes. Although I do think the new achievement Bros before Foes is alot more hilarious due to the stupidity of this whole situation. I see absolutely no reason to make an issue over this at all. Kratos has been known to kill just about everything. So what's wrong with him killing a woman? A demon woman at that? Hell in the God of War universe Kratos has just about killed everything.

I fail to see the problem other than Adam bringing a "sexist issue" to light that wasn't even there to begin with.

Alex Mac:

Madara XIII:
I wasn't aware women were beyond logic, a sense of humour, and thinking like other people. My mistake, I should have realized that I was living in a bubble, and that women were some completely different species that thinks in ways I can't even imagine with my feeble male brain.

Spare your condescension as well. At the end of the day, believe what *you* want to. Ask: does it offend *you*? If it doesn't, that's fine. It actually doesn't even offend me. But when you appeal to nuance, you also ignore anyone who might find it offensive (and there is actually fair enough cause to).

"I wasn't aware women were beyond..." doesn't come off as a statement championing the intellect of women, as well. It comes off as arrogance and condescension. "I thought women were better but.." Etc, etc.

People are nuanced, yes. And it's the exact thing that makes them have varied responses. Including those you don't agree with or understand. And the latter point is salient. You think you know what a woman might think? How? Why? Are you one? If not, why are you even talking about what a woman (or, worse, women as a group) might think?

Secondly how about you quit trying to speak for the people you THINK are offended by this.
What else are you planning on White Knighting?

Cutting down his wife and child was a lot more shocking and anti-women than murdering a fellow warrior-type, who happened to resemble a woman, who had a good laugh while he was kerb-stomping her and came back from the apparent dead looking more arrogant than ever. Don't see it as a big deal in the scheme of things. I wouldn't have complained but the change is fine by me as well.

Was Sessler right about it being in poor taste? Yes

Did Sessler ask them to change it? No

He stated what he felt was accurate about the games development, that in his opinion this showed the true "Frat boy" mentality the game has always been leaning on anyways.

The fact that they changed it is the only part thats stupid because

A. They already released the game.

B. They already have the negative press

and now most importantly,

C. They look like cowards for not defending their games direction.

What im saying is, dont be pissed at Sessler because he told it the way he saw it, in his OWN Review of the game. In my opinion it was in poor taste, but I dont think they should have changed the name.

Sessler is still one of the last great commentators on video games because he views them as Art and not just simply a game, which is probably why this rubbed him the wrong way, but it doesnt make him the bad guy.

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

It's not *really* sexist. While the wording is derogatory, the message behind it is "Friends before lovers." It's just the same as:

Chicks before dicks

or

Sisters before misters.

I find it hard to believe that were either of those implemented in a game there would be any outcry.

This is dumb, this all thread is dumb. It's a game, if you're getting offended by something that will never impact your life in any way, shape or form you need to get yourself checked.

Danny Ocean:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

It's not *really* sexist. While the wording is derogatory, the message behind it is "Friends before lovers." It's just the same as:

Chicks before dicks

or

Sisters before misters.

I find it hard to believe that were either of those implemented in a game there would be any outcry.

Really? You call your lovers Ho's?

Oh cool, another argumentative thread about what is and what isn't misogynistic in the context of a video game. 'Bros before Foes' is more clever anyway.

Yeah, let's get real, calling a woman a whore when there's nothing to suggest she really is, actually is mysogynistic/sexist. At any rate, I personally wouldn't have made a fuss, but that's up to those who get strongly offended by it. And how the developers respond to the complaints. People getting offended by such a relatively minor change when it doesn't really affect them equally need to get themselves checked.

Madara XIII:
I fail to see the problem other than Adam bringing a "sexist issue" to light that wasn't even there to begin with.

"Wasn't even there to begin with" cannot be a true statement if people found offense there. People did. They can, say, presume wrongly upon the intentions or beliefs of SCE Santa Monica employees but if the thing offended them, they're not suddenly wrong to take offense merely because you don't believe a problem exists. "I don't see the problem" doesn't mean nothing's there. It just means you don't see it or agree with it. Nothing more.

Which is fine. I don't see a problem with a lot of things. Most, in fact. But I'm just one person. There's a lot more than just me.

Madara XIII:
Secondly how about you quit trying to speak for the people you THINK are offended by this.

I don't need to try. And I mostly certainly don't need to speak for people who I *think* are offended. I can speak about the people who actually are offended and why. And I can certainly talk about reasons why, bare minimum, I'm able to see where people might be offended.

Bottom line: was the thing in poor taste? Somewhat. Does it bother me? A little. Did SCE Santa Monica have to make the change? Nope. It's their call. But do I cringe a bit when someone says there's no problem, especially when they're speaking from a position which naturally makes the issue less relevant to them? 'Course I do. And I cringe even more when they don't realize that this difference they want to pretend doesn't affect someone's view...well, it can profoundly affect it.

No one in their right mind should care about the title of a PS3 achievement. It is not horrendously obscene, it is a slang term. When people go out and claim that this is "Feminism," they cheapen every strive forward in gender equality. Complaining about an achievement in a video game and claiming it as part of a movement that gave women voting rights is preposterous.

Jiveturkey124:

Really? You call your lovers Ho's?

Reading comprehension level up! -.-

No, I don't (unless they want me to), that's why I said "The message behind..." And went on to show two examples of comments which express the same message with opposing language, showing that, like I said, the message itself isn't derogatory even if the language is to some people.

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