Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

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Woah... woah woah, hold on just one minute... I thought

.

People are just now making a stink?
The GoW games have had fetishized scenes of violence since it's inception.
I'm pretty sure at least one prior to Ascension was a woman as well.
This is literally nothing new.

DVS BSTrD:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

But beating a man is perfectly alright? I get where your're coming from but this is Kratos we're talking about. He's not beating her because shes a women, he's doing it because thats what he does to people, monsters, gods, architecture.

Women are exactly the same as men in that they are completly different from everyone else... if that makes sense, you shouldn't want to hit people at all but if you do its because they deserve it NOT because they're a women. I highly doubt Kratos did this due to his mash potatos being to lumpy.

Just so we're clear, I can see how some may find the acheivment sexist (not to mention kind of cheap/lame/unfunny) but the idea of Kratos beating/killing someone, nope. Thats what he does.

EDIT: Having watched the vid I think this has been blown a bit out of proportion. He even says thats its not the violance itself but the framing the acheivment suggests. I don't really agree with him given its been done at the expense of other characters in the series past games but that doesn't make him a 'faggot', just a bit hypocritical.

Agente L:

Harker067:
snip

Nice strawman.

There's a huge difference of "you get a trophy for beating this person" and "you get a trophy for something that happened after this person is beaten".

OK So its not you play the boss scene and beat the fury up and get the achievement calling her a prostitute. It's you play the boss scene and beat the fury up then sit through a cut scene where her son saves you and you get the achievement calling her a prostitute.

Because being saved by her son makes calling her a prostitute alright, doesn't contribute to anti-sex, anti-sexwork, and anti-woman sentiments in society,and or is funny?

This is so stupid I just saw the video for that trophy. That "thing" wasn't a woman it was some monster(or god) using the looks of women to get what it wants. Its no different than a "succubus"

Harker067:
Snip

Tell me, why are you so offended by a non-human female, in a mythology which promiscuity is common, being called a prostitute? "Hoe" slang doesn't mean "prostitute" either, actually.

And no, it doesn't.

What I find funny is that I'm seeing more of a stink being kicked up after the change, and it's from the exact same people who earlier (pre-change) were saying "Oh, it's just a trophy, big deal".

Okay, I'm all for stepping away from the sausage-fest stigma surrounding the video game industry, and I'm quite opposed to demeaning a single race, gender, or sexual orientation, but...
...really?

An achievement. Using a very common phrase. And you don't even kill an actual woman to receive it (unless you consider a fury a 'woman').
Unbelievable.

I could go on about people needing to suck it up and get over themselves, but what pisses me off most is how this this stuff continues to put feminism in an over-zealous, fanatical light for all the knee-jerk crowds out there to condemn and scoff at. This is just stupid.

PETA cries about whale hunting in AC 4, people laugh and roll their eyes (and rightfully so.)
People complain about a goddamn trophy name, Sony has no choice but to make the obvious PR decision and give them what they want. Just bugs me.

So basically, unless we revere and worship any and all female characters, regarding of the context, then we're going to be labelled a misogynist? Even if you're a female? Considering this Trophy was apparently dubbed by a female Producer of the game?

I mean, come on? When did gamers become so immature as to be offended by something so petty as this? Oh right! I forgot just how many white knights there are among us, that take it upon themselves to defend the poor, helpless little girls that probably wouldn't have noticed the achievement.

So do you get the trophy for beating her or is it just within a certain time frame of taking her down? Because if it's the prior then maybe you have a case but my assumption that if there's a "bros" in there would refer that there's more to it than just that.

You know what I want to see! I want to see a game adaptation of The Flashman series! Just to see these kind of people froth and foam at the mouth at some of the things Harry Flashman says and does. Do I think Flashman is a good character? Sure do. Do I think he's a good person? Fuck no, he's repugnant and an asshole. Kinda like a certain dual-wielding gaming icon.

Agente L:

Harker067:
Snip

Tell me, why are you so offended by a non-human female, in a mythology which promiscuity is common, being called a prostitute? "Hoe" slang doesn't mean "prostitute" either, actually.

And no, it doesn't.

Characters in mythology are metaphors, archetypes and representations of the ways the people telling them view the world around them same thing with video games. Being promiscuous is not the same as being in the sex industry. Being in the sex industry is a very stigmatized profession that shouldn't be denigrated further throwing around catch phrases about how men should look after men before they look after women. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ho Urban dictionaries top seven entries all refer to either being a sex worker or being promiscuous. Being promiscuous is also not something to be shaming people about. It doesn't change my opinion if you replace prostitute with slut in my short version of the situation.

If the situation was changed to the effect of white's before blacks would you dismissive of people who see a problem with it?

Harker067:

Agente L:
And to all to those who still believe this blatant lie, here it comes! Spoiler Alert!

! Spoiler Alert!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3L2de3ucLg

You don't get the trophy for doing some mild violence (by GoW standards) to a women (who is actually one of the furies. Or e Erinyes in actual greek).

Furies aren't "women" per se. They are deities from the underworld. They simbolize vengeance, and hunt those who are oath breakers.

You gain the trophy after being rescued by Orkos, son of the furies, and the divine manifestation of oath. He see that the oath kratos swore to Ares was unfair and so he decided to help him, even if it meant betraying his mothers.

Heck, the fury Kratos "kill" doesn't even die. It's just a illusion of the true fury.

The trophy doesn't pop as you pierce her chest. You get after being rescued, and being given a extremely important artifact from orkos himself

! Spoiler Alert!

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

It's funny you should put it like that. I know "Ho" is not usually strictly used for strait up prostitute since Dolomite ruled the streets. It's actually a little bit more nuanced than that in terms of "frat boy" talk. Good to see your Googling skills are not lacking though.

Adam: I have nothing wrong to say about Kratos' violence, but the trophy name seems a bit tasteless.
Santa Monica: Oh, you and some other people seem to agree. Hmm, I guess it was. Well, we'll change it then.

That's all I get from this. Nothing too controversial. If they were fine with it, they wouldn't have changed it. It's not like Adam campaigned for the name to be changed or anything. Mistakes were or were not made (depending on your point of view), people's impressions/feelings were slightly hurt, things get slightly blown up, just normal everyday stuff.

Not that big of a deal honestly, especially after it was resolved so quickly.

I find it strange that it's considered sexist to hit a woman but not sexist to only have qualms about hitting women.

Isn't the latter a perfect example of sexism?

VanQ:
So basically, unless we revere and worship any and all female characters, regarding of the context, then we're going to be labelled a misogynist? Even if you're a female? Considering this Trophy was apparently dubbed by a female Producer of the game?

I mean, come on? When did gamers become so immature as to be offended by something so petty as this? Oh right! I forgot just how many white knights there are among us, that take it upon themselves to defend the poor, helpless little girls that probably wouldn't have noticed the achievement.

So do you get the trophy for beating her or is it just within a certain time frame of taking her down? Because if it's the prior then maybe you have a case but my assumption that if there's a "bros" in there would refer that there's more to it than just that.

You know what I want to see! I want to see a game adaptation of The Flashman series! Just to see these kind of people froth and foam at the mouth at some of the things Harry Flashman says and does. Do I think Flashman is a good character? Sure do. Do I think he's a good person? Fuck no, he's repugnant and an asshole. Kinda like a certain dual-wielding gaming icon.

My absolute favorite is when people get mad "for" other people. Don't worry, even if you aren't mad, or perhaps not smart enough to be mad about this (note the sarcasm), there are plenty of folks around here who are mad for you. All these people are here to help you because as a weak woman, you can't make this decision for yourself and need the help of all the white knights.

But if Kratos was beating a man it'd be perfectly okay.

Let me list the reasons this is stupid
1. sexism is the least of Kratos' crimes, this is a dude who will rip someone in half with his bare hands and does often.
2. It's a light-hearted joke, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm sure I can come up with more but it's been an off day. Suffice to say I used to like Adam Sessler, after this crap he's just a whiney kid.

Abomination:
I find it strange that it's considered sexist to hit a woman but not sexist to only have qualms about hitting women.

Isn't the latter a perfect example of sexism?

Whoa whoa, you are making too much sense. But for real: Sexism is a decision based on gender that is not exclusively good or bad and not specifically for or against women. But if you Google that, you know what they give you? "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex". It's sad how poorly educated Google, and by extension all the people who jump all over this stuff, really are. This is how language gets messed up.

Baresark:

Harker067:

Agente L:
And to all to those who still believe this blatant lie, here it comes! Spoiler Alert!

! Spoiler Alert!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3L2de3ucLg

You don't get the trophy for doing some mild violence (by GoW standards) to a women (who is actually one of the furies. Or e Erinyes in actual greek).

Furies aren't "women" per se. They are deities from the underworld. They simbolize vengeance, and hunt those who are oath breakers.

You gain the trophy after being rescued by Orkos, son of the furies, and the divine manifestation of oath. He see that the oath kratos swore to Ares was unfair and so he decided to help him, even if it meant betraying his mothers.

Heck, the fury Kratos "kill" doesn't even die. It's just a illusion of the true fury.

The trophy doesn't pop as you pierce her chest. You get after being rescued, and being given a extremely important artifact from orkos himself

! Spoiler Alert!

So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.

It's funny you should put it like that. I know "Ho" is not usually strictly used for strait up prostitute since Dolomite ruled the streets. It's actually a little bit more nuanced than that in terms of "frat boy" talk. Good to see your Googling skills are not lacking though.

So it isn't known derived from a shortening of whore and is used to disparage women by commenting on their sexual practices. Either by disparaging sex workers or promiscuous women. There is a positive non derogatory form of the word in the frat boy dictionary. You'll have to send me a copy.

"But if you Google that, you know what they give you?"

Ok first result from wikipedi"Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex.[1] It usually refers to discrimination against women, although it can also apply to men.[2][3] Sexist attitudes may stem from traditional stereotypes of gender roles,[4][full citation needed] and may include the belief that a person of one sex is intrinsically superior to a person of the other."

Harker067:
So it isn't known derived from a shortening of whore and is used to disparage women by commenting on their sexual practices. Either by disparaging sex workers or promiscuous women. There is a positive non derogatory form of the word in the frat boy dictionary. You'll have to send me a copy.

According to the fat boy dictionary every woman is a ho - prostitute or not.

"Bros before hos" is simply a way of stating male friends over female romantic interests. Placing the bonds of fellowship and brotherhood over the desire to get one's "dick wet". In a community where romantic relationships are fickle and sexual intercourse frequently only require attraction or sexual frustration being present in both parties it would be disingenuous for a male to place his current and (probably) temporary romantic/sexual partner over his friends. This concept has been shortened to "bros before hos". Even females can adopt this term, referring to their female (or male) platonic friends as "bros" and their sexual partners (male or female) as "hos".

Abomination:

Harker067:
So it isn't known derived from a shortening of whore and is used to disparage women by commenting on their sexual practices. Either by disparaging sex workers or promiscuous women. There is a positive non derogatory form of the word in the frat boy dictionary. You'll have to send me a copy.

According to the fat boy dictionary every woman is a ho - prostitute or not.

"Bros before hos" is simply a way of stating male friends over female romantic interests. Placing the bonds of fellowship and brotherhood over the desire to get one's "dick wet". In a community where romantic relationships are fickle and sexual intercourse frequently only require attraction or sexual frustration being present in both parties it would be disingenuous for a male to place his current and (probably) temporary romantic/sexual partner over his friends. This concept has been shortened to "bros before hos". Even females can adopt this term, referring to their female (or male) platonic friends as "bros" and their sexual partners (male or female) as "hos".

I'm sorry that hasn't changed anything you just gave me more words. You still have a situation where you're putting down romantic partners by labeling them prostitutes you haven't changed that. Bros shortening of brothers hos shortening of whores. Males friends are brothers worthy of your loyalty the woman your having sex with is a whore and doesn't.

Of all the truly disgusting, evil, misogynistic things Kratos does, this is what crosses the line? Honestly, some of the other things he does to women make me nauseous but it's this that gets the attention? The achievement is tame, and tends to fit right in with all the other abominations. Broadly I like the GoW games, but DON'T play it if you're easily offended.

Santa Monica was well within their rights to name the trophy the original name, everyone else was well within their rights to complain, and Santa Monica was once again well within their rights to change it to something more appropriate.

Nothing to see here.

Xan Krieger:
But if Kratos was beating a man it'd be perfectly okay.

Let me list the reasons this is stupid
1. sexism is the least of Kratos' crimes, this is a dude who will rip someone in half with his bare hands and does often.
2. It's a light-hearted joke, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm sure I can come up with more but it's been an off day. Suffice to say I used to like Adam Sessler, after this crap he's just a whiney kid.

yup this

i honestly wish that they would change that exact fury into being a male, and changing the achievement name to "bros before..bros?"

just to see if the PC anal brigade stinks up a fit about it.

Baresark:

Harker067:
snipped

LoL, you amuse me for how hard you are trying here, on all these comments. You see women as whores, that is fine.

You are aparently incapable of having an actual discussion on the topic.

Harker067:
I'm sorry that hasn't changed anything you just gave me more words. You still have a situation where you're putting down romantic partners by labeling them prostitutes you haven't changed that. Bros shortening of brothers hos shortening of whores. Males friends are brothers worthy of your loyalty the woman your having sex with is a whore and doesn't.

This assumes that every woman an individual is in a sexual relationship with is worth more or equal loyalty to that of a long-term friend.

The only issue is that the word "ho" is used, I can not think of another term for a temporary sexual partner that would roll off the tongue as well.

The "Fratboy" does have a strange form of enlightenment - recognizing that sex is not some glorious commitment that needs be held aloft above all other relationships. Certainly their terminology and language used for such things is quite base and unsophisticated, but one can not fault the spirit of the message.

Harker067:

Baresark:

Harker067:
snipped

LoL, you amuse me for how hard you are trying here, on all these comments. You see women as whores, that is fine.

You are aparently incapable of having an actual discussion on the topic.

I mean, you are the one sitting here insisting that it means prostitute and whore. "Ho" hasn't had that meaning for a long time (at least not exclusively), as it's used in a context besides that. It's used both in a playful friendly way (in the company of friends, female to female), and it's also used to "slut shame" women other women don't like. It's a very versatile word. The so called "frat boy" crowd doesn't use it exclusively to mean prostitute either... actually, I have never met one that use it in that way ever. As one other poster pointed out, the statement is used in such a way as to decide to go with your male friends rather than your romantic interest. And you countered him with it still means prostitutes as you describing the female interest as a "ho". You are the one who cannot accept any meaning besides the academic (and completely shallow) academic definition of a slang term. There is no reasoning with you, all I can think is that you are the one with the issue about the word. Not me or anyone else who see it as a harmless word that cannot hurt anyone that does not let it. You see it and you think prostitute, I don't. That is your issue, not mine. But even if I saw it that way, the existence of the word doesn't demean the entire female part of the species like you think it does. Ultimately, if the creators felt they wanted to change it, that is fine. But it's really sad how people like you let language control people and think it's OK. I'm an adult, nothing controls me unless I let it.

I'm all for fighting the good fight for equality - especially in my favorite activity, video gaming - and maybe there's a bit of "I only played I and II because my fiancÚ couldn't manage the button sequences and felt it was too much (but not enough) like the Devil May Cry button" coloring how much I don't care about this, but I don't care about this.

Seriously. For those ultra offended: choose your battles and choose them wisely, otherwise it's a losing war - pretty much always. There are bigger fish to fry if you're anxious to move the cause forward - MUCH bigger fish, A LOT of them. Honestly.

For those who are defending this: it isn't worth a defense either because it's really hard to defend stupidity (the new pun version is far superior for a giggle value) and nothing worthwhile results when you try. Artistic integrity? Free speech? These lofty concepts are hard to link to a single phrase on a meaningless bit of digital flotsam, and for good reason.

This is insignificant. That is the gist of what I'm saying here.

You could punch Zeus into a bloody pulp. But when it happens to a woman. MISOGYNY! BRUTAL! EVIL!

Oh please! You could get a trophy for banging all the women in the game, who I would like to remind you are nothing more but sex objects in these games. No misogyny here. Nothing to worry about.

Fuck you! Lara Croft gets impaled through the head on spikes and I didn't see Adam Sessler stirring up a storm for this controversial unnecessary brutality that actually made me a feel uncomfortable. A pointless trophy in a franchise that prides itself on ultra violence and sex is what gets highlighted instead.

To get worked up over this is to get worked up about the Chinese store in my neighborhood that still has a giant sign over it saying Oriental. Because we collectively decided that Oriental was now offensive to.

Fuck Sessler and all the other PC pansies out there.

Well, I always thought the phrase was a bit stupid and a smidge misogynistic but I would say changing it is a over-reaction. Its a tiny change, that hardly effected anyone and is in fact a better play on words as others have said so I don't really mind it at all, I am just kinda indifferent with a slight mix of befuddled.

So like, a year ago, I would have been in agreement with some criticism of sexism in games. Now, however, it's like everything has to pass some test or the internet goes crazy. It has just gone overboard, and everyone is so overly sensitive that it has become a major issue where it was not before.

In my opinion, people need to get over it, take it less seriously, and play games for fun rather than in search of a perfectly politically correct treatment of females in every case.

1337mokro:
You could punch Zeus into a bloody pulp. But when it happens to a woman. MISOGYNY! BRUTAL! EVIL!

The violent act in itself was not the cause of rage (it fits within the narrative, and it's not even as bloody as countless other kills in the series). Lots of female characters in other games have taken far worse punishment without a wave of rage spreading over the internet. Obviously gamers don't have any particular problem with the depiction of violence against women if it makes sense within the game and it's not specifically targeted at women just because they are women.

It's the combination of the violent act and the "Bros before hoes" name which causes the rage. The trophy name was chosen BECAUSE the enemy in question was female. The violence was justified in the game's narrative, but the trophy name turned it into a joke, deliberately focusing on the genders of the characters involved and trivializing the violent act, which would have been alright by itself.

The trophy was basically pointing and laughing and saying "LOL violence against women".

I don't normally like when things get too "politically correct", but there was a very valid complaint here.

The Furies aren't academically definitive "hos". No, they're sadistic torturers who are every bit as sociopathic and murderous as Kratos. They're so upstanding that their own son rather risk his life betraying them to help a man he barely knows than to serve them. Anyway, Sessler completely got his facts wrong and SM changes the title of a trophy because he couldn't bother to get it right. Oh well. That's the problem XMark, the game doesn't laugh at violence against women at all. The trophy refers to Orkos betraying the Furies to help Kratos not Kratos beating up Alecto, which contextually makes far more sense hence the term, "Bros before Hos". What's worse is that the trophy never follows Kratos beating up Alecto. It follows Orkos telling Kratos that he's going to help him regardless of what the Furies decide to do to punish him.

Brad Shepard:

DVS BSTrD:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

ITS A GAME, Get over it. Its in context to the game plus all this gender differentiation is tearing people apart, if you want everyone to be equal, you have to represent everyone as equal, that means getting to kill female AND male characters in games, among other things.

Im starting to get real fucking tired of hearing "IN CONTEXT".

reading through most of the youtube comments that was the argument for 90% of them.

want to know what it means?

parts of a piece of text (such as paragraphs) that precede and follow a certain detail.

so, IN FUCKING CONTEXT you are beating women down and getting an achievement for it.

now before someone goes off and lables people as white knight's and questioning people's sexuality, Im all for gender equality.

I have no problem moving down both men and women in games I play. I dont really play fighting games, but when I did a long time ago, I had no problem pulling Sonya Blades spine out besides my fingers slipping from the controller.

but lets change the situation real quick, what if the achievement was for beating up gay characters?

black characters?

children even?

would you be so willing to defend it then?

rant provided by the association for the proper use of 'IN CONTEXT' and the removal of the improperly use of 'irony'.

Kalezian:

so, IN FUCKING CONTEXT you are beating women down and getting an achievement for it.

No, you're not. In fact, when you do beat the Furies, the achievement you gets is "Bond Broken". "Bros before Hos" is a trophy given because Orkos betrays the Furies to help Kratos defeat them. Sessler got his facts wrong and then it snowballed to the point where Santa Monica decided to change the title.

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