It can be misogynistic, or (to get pedantic over it) it can give the game a tone of implied misogyny, without the author's intent. If I make the logo of my company into a swastika by mistake it's still bloody offensive.
Nobody is having a hissy-fit. Sessler expressed his discomfort, they changed the game, some people made a thread on the internet. The only people trying to whip up a fuss about it are people like you who want to make the critics look like frothing PC-lunatics so you can dismiss their valid claims.
First off I did not mention Sessler at all in my post... did I? Go on have a quick check. Secondly I was posting in response to the people commenting on the board, you only have to look at the first couple of pages to see the PC-Rage clutching at every straw just so they can have a fight and feel empowered.
Oh and "People like me" eh? Nice :). "People like me" do not need to make the PC-Crowd look like frothing lunatics, they are doing quite a good job of that themselves. This crap really is the fight of the bored and the contented.
There's naff-all straw clutching. The joke is kinda tasteless, it got changed. We move on with our lives. Hooray!
Edit: Ok that was kinda low-content. Just saying "not a big deal" doesn't make the joke suddenly not tasteless. You're not actually engaging with any criticisms of the achievement, just acting superior to everyone else for not objecting to such minor things. Yes, it is minor. But this is a gaming discussion site, everything on here is minor and trivial.
Thank you for agreeing with me, you are right, the argument about this trophy is "minor and trivial". But it has the pro-PC crowd defending it like it is a massively degrading misogynistic problem, just look at the first few pages. That is my point and my stance. People got wound up about this enough to actually complain to the developer about it and that is just sad.
No, you're beating the shit out of one of the Furies.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's safe to say it's a duck.
In context, you're beating up a woman who is as every bit as violent and murderous as you are. She intends to capture and torture you mentally and physically forever because you will not serve a man who with her help, tricked you into killing your own family. Furthermore, she's letting you do it so you can be fooled into thinking you've won.
No, you're beating the shit out of one of the Furies.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's safe to say it's a duck.
If it looks like a Fury, quacks like a Fury, swims like a Fury, it's safe to say it's a Fury. What's your point?
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
CaptainKarma: ^^^ But the trophy is still tasteless, yes? That's all I've ever argued.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's safe to say it's a duck.
If it looks like a Fury, quacks like a Fury, swims like a Fury, it's safe to say it's a Fury. What's your point?
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
The same reason people assumed that despite Bros and Hos being plural, it was referencing one man beating up one woman. It didn't seem to cross our minds that it contextually makes absolutely no sense.
CaptainKarma: ^^^ But the trophy is still tasteless, yes? That's all I've ever argued.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's safe to say it's a duck.
If it looks like a Fury, quacks like a Fury, swims like a Fury, it's safe to say it's a Fury. What's your point?
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
Just because it's a female doesn't mean it's a woman. Or are we really getting to the stage where people will try and defend a female monster just because it's female?
I'm normally opposed to people getting so worked up over small, trivial things like this (from what I've read it sounds like Kratos has a darn good reason to be beating her up), but the new name is so much funnier anyways I can let it slide.
Seriously, that should have been the original name. The guy who thought of it deserves a raise.
If it looks like a Fury, quacks like a Fury, swims like a Fury, it's safe to say it's a Fury. What's your point?
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
The same reason people assumed that despite Bros and Hos being plural, it was referencing one man beating up one woman. It didn't seem to cross our minds that it contextually makes absolutely no sense.
But the furies ARE female. The furies are women. This is like explaining away Loli-porn by saying they're actually 10 000 year old vampires or some shit (the Tera-Defence, as I call it). They look and act female. Historically they're considered female spirits/gods. They. Are. Female.
If it looks like a Fury, quacks like a Fury, swims like a Fury, it's safe to say it's a Fury. What's your point?
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
Just because it's a female doesn't mean it's a woman. Or are we really getting to the stage where people will try and defend a female monster just because it's female?
They're based on women. They're designed as women. They. Are. Women.
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
The same reason people assumed that despite Bros and Hos being plural, it was referencing one man beating up one woman. It didn't seem to cross our minds that it contextually makes absolutely no sense.
But the furies ARE female. The furies are women. This is like explaining away Loli-porn by saying they're actually 10 000 year old vampires or some shit (the Tera-Defence, as I call it). They look and act female. Historically they're considered female spirits/gods. They. Are. Female.
I'm not arguing that they're not female. In fact, I quite agree with you. What I'm saying is that "Bros before Hos" doesn't reference Kratos beating up Alecto in no way, shape or form. It just doesn't fit.
What a surprise, a completely biased and factually incorrect article from the guy who made a bad comic that completely missed the point of some other guy's article about a very small type of women he finds annoying.
The trophy, awarded once Kratos has finished pummeling a female antagonist in a shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards
One, the "female antagonist" isn't just some random woman Kratos decides to beat up. She's not really even a women at all, unless you want to start assigning genders to demons now for whatever reason. Two, shockingly violent even by God of War standards my ass. It's not any more violent than any other scene I've seen from God of War, and in fact I'd personally rate the one where he rips a dude's head off and uses it as an item to be far more violent. Three, Kratos doesn't even actually harm this "woman" in the cutscene anyway. Turns out its a hologram.
Oops! See what happens when you don't even bother researching what you're reporting on? You make yourself look just a wee bit dumb.
Brad Shepard: People need to learn to take a damn joke.
This.
Also,
Harker067: So the fury isn't a prostitute cause you beat her up she's a prostitute cause her son helps you over his mother. Glad you cleared that up.
Nobody called the demon a prostitute at all. The phrase "bros before hos" has never been about calling women prostitutes. Much like the author of this article, you ought to try learning what you're actually speaking about before you open your mouth.
Let's face it, large amounts of gaming journalism and unfortunately large amounts of their audience, have almost degenerated to the level of Fox News, it took only 2 years of prodding and campaigning.
The in-game awards system, called Skill Shots, ties the ugly, graphic violence into explicit sex acts: "topless" means cutting a player in half, while a "gang bang" means killing multiple enemies. And with kids as young as 9 playing such games, the experts FoxNews.com spoke with were nearly universally worried that video game violence may be reaching a fever pitch.
...
"Violent video games like Bulletstorm have the potential to send the message that violence and insults with sexual innuendos are the way to handle disputes and problems," Weichman said. Carole Lieberman, a psychiatrist and book author, told FoxNews.com that sexual situations and acts in video games -- highlighted so well in Bulletstorm -- have led to real-world sexual violence.
"The increase in rapes can be attributed in large part to the playing out of [sexual] scenes in video games," she said.
And yet here we are... just a few steps away from calling in expert feminists to tell us how the name of an Achievement in a game will permanently damage the youth and cause violent acts against women.
This and only this would be the proper and only response for this sort of nonsense:
Video game advocates say the existing warning system works fine: Parents are responsible for deciding whether their kids can play games, not the government. Epic, the game developer, did not respond to FoxNews.com's requests. But game publisher Electronic Arts released the following statement: "Bulletstorm has been given an "M" rating by the ESRB, and we have adhered to all their guidelines in regards to the marketing and promotion of Bulletstorm."
DVS BSTrD: I didn't say it was offensive or out of place, but it isn't very amusing either.
Bros before Hoes has been a stupid frat guy saying for years, thats the joke, but because people itch too much and cant take a joke, they have to change it, YET, people complain TO THIS DAY over ME3's ending, yet they wont change there shitty ending, utter bullshit on both accounts.
That last part is true, but it kinda overlooks the point of the saying when Kratos is already fighting the Furies anyway.
"We have created and will soon push out a patch for God of War: Ascension that alters the title of one of the game Trophies. The text was offensive to some members of our community and impacted their enjoyment of the game," Sony Santa Monica's told Joystiq. "We are endlessly committed to ensuring that our community can fully enjoy the experiences the team has created. As such, we've addressed the feedback and amended the Trophy in question."
THE BASTARDS HOW DARE THEY TRY TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER YOU'RE RUINING OUR ART FORM YOU FUCKING CUNTS I WILL FIND SONY'S HOUSE AND BURN IT TO GROUND BAST SHITTY CUNT FUCKERS GHSOUGOSNUIPBGUISBJIGORBSIUTBUIP
Oh, sorry, that seemed like the natural reaction. So anyway, to recap:
1) God Of War references "Bros before hoes" after you beat the shit out of a woman. 2) People complain because of implied misogamy and such. 3) God Of War chances reference to make it slightly more opaque then a fucking screen door. 4) ??????? 5) OUTRAGE AND RUINATION OF GAMES
Seriously, I get that you might be angry that they've over-reacted over a joke, I understand that much, but it's not like the process totally ruined the game. Hell, might have made the joke ever-so-slightly better, even.
Dexter111: Let's face it, large amounts of gaming journalism and unfortunately large amounts of their audience, have almost degenerated to the level of Fox News, it took only 2 years of prodding and campaigning.
The in-game awards system, called Skill Shots, ties the ugly, graphic violence into explicit sex acts: "topless" means cutting a player in half, while a "gang bang" means killing multiple enemies. And with kids as young as 9 playing such games, the experts FoxNews.com spoke with were nearly universally worried that video game violence may be reaching a fever pitch.
...
"Violent video games like Bulletstorm have the potential to send the message that violence and insults with sexual innuendos are the way to handle disputes and problems," Weichman said. Carole Lieberman, a psychiatrist and book author, told FoxNews.com that sexual situations and acts in video games -- highlighted so well in Bulletstorm -- have led to real-world sexual violence.
"The increase in rapes can be attributed in large part to the playing out of [sexual] scenes in video games," she said.
And yet here we are... just a few steps away from calling in expert feminists to tell us how the name of an Achievement in a game will permanently damage the youth and cause violent acts against women.
Except Sessler isn't stating either of these things will happen. He's just lamenting what appears to be a minor case of misogyny in an otherwise o.k. title makes him feel less good about it.
Truth be told, the God of War franchise has never really interested me (hack n' slash isn't my thing), but I can see where some people like Sessler take offense with this.
The Furies are based on women. They look like women. They're women. If they aren't women then the original achievement isn't just non-offensive, it's completely nonsensical. WHy would you say Bros Before Hos if they weren't female?
Just because it's a female doesn't mean it's a woman. Or are we really getting to the stage where people will try and defend a female monster just because it's female?
They're based on women. They're designed as women. They. Are. Women.
This:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9mYW5ib3lnYW1pbmcuY29tL3dwLWNvbnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8yMDEyLzA5L2dvZC1vZi13YXItYXNjZW5zaW9uLWVuZW1pZXMtcmV2ZWFsZWQtbWVldC10aGUtZnVyaWVzMS0zMDB4MjIzLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=
Isn't a woman. No matter how many times you say it.
The same reason people assumed that despite Bros and Hos being plural, it was referencing one man beating up one woman. It didn't seem to cross our minds that it contextually makes absolutely no sense.
But the furies ARE female. The furies are women. This is like explaining away Loli-porn by saying they're actually 10 000 year old vampires or some shit (the Tera-Defence, as I call it). They look and act female. Historically they're considered female spirits/gods. They. Are. Female.
I'm not arguing that they're not female. In fact, I quite agree with you. What I'm saying is that "Bros before Hos" doesn't reference Kratos beating up Alecto in no way, shape or form. It just doesn't fit.
You're a fucking idiot. You're bending and flexing in response to every criticism I throw at you, you goddamn troll. You say they aren't women. Then you say they are. Then you say the achievement doesn't have anything to do with all the stuff that happens on the screen AS YOU GET the achievement. The achievement is about them.
Fuck you. And fuck anthony87. You and everyone is this thread defending the achievement are everything that is wrong with the gaming community. Do you ever wonder why Fox news can roll out its anti-gaming rants with impunity? How jack Thmopson still exists? Because games are full of immature shit like that achievement. And everytime somebody tries to clean up gaming's act you shits come flooding out of the woodwork to defend your god-given right to be immature. To be hostile to women. To completely and totally demean women.
The original achievement doesn't reflect too badly on gamers.
YOU DO.
Changing it is a tiny, trivial thing. But you have to screech and rant and rave about "free speech", "censorship", "feminazis". Shit like this:
Because god-forbid you actually consider the implications behind what you say. Does the idea that other people have emotions terrify you so much? Are you so very scared of a little bit of introspection, of thinking about what your words mean, how they might hurt people? Bugger empathy, let's fucking quibble over why it's technically not offensive.
mjc0961: Nobody called the demon a prostitute at all. The phrase "bros before hos" has never been about calling women prostitutes. Much like the author of this article, you ought to try learning what you're actually speaking about before you open your mouth.
Like this. The Fury's aren't called prostitutes. They're just presented along with a word used to describe prostitutes. Here's a hint dude: that's calling them prostitutes. Ho means prostitute. The joke is that it's bro's before hos because women are just good for sex. Because they're prostitutes.
Just because it's a female doesn't mean it's a woman. Or are we really getting to the stage where people will try and defend a female monster just because it's female?
They're based on women. They're designed as women. They. Are. Women.
This:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9mYW5ib3lnYW1pbmcuY29tL3dwLWNvbnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8yMDEyLzA5L2dvZC1vZi13YXItYXNjZW5zaW9uLWVuZW1pZXMtcmV2ZWFsZWQtbWVldC10aGUtZnVyaWVzMS0zMDB4MjIzLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=
Isn't a woman. No matter how many times you say it.
It has breasts. It has a female figure. It has a woman's voice. It is referred to in game as female. It takes the female pronoun. It's a woman.
Brad Shepard: Bros before Hoes has been a stupid frat guy saying for years, thats the joke, but because people itch too much and cant take a joke, they have to change it, YET, people complain TO THIS DAY over ME3's ending, yet they wont change there shitty ending, utter bullshit on both accounts.
That last part is true, but it kinda overlooks the point of the saying when Kratos is already fighting the Furies anyway.
this is going to become a frat-astrophe..
Well at least they're sororit happend :P Captcha: I'm sorry dave I'll bet you are
They're based on women. They're designed as women. They. Are. Women.
This:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9mYW5ib3lnYW1pbmcuY29tL3dwLWNvbnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8yMDEyLzA5L2dvZC1vZi13YXItYXNjZW5zaW9uLWVuZW1pZXMtcmV2ZWFsZWQtbWVldC10aGUtZnVyaWVzMS0zMDB4MjIzLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=
Isn't a woman. No matter how many times you say it.
*snipped for space*
It has breasts. It has a female figure. It has a woman's voice. It is referred to in game as female. It takes the female pronoun. It's a woman.
You know what else has breasts, takes the female pronoun and is referred to as female?
That's a female chimpanzee. But by your logic it must be a woman right?
CaptainKarma, I never said the Furies weren't women. You just misunderstood. I said the trophy doesn't have anything to do with Kratos beating up Alecto and it doesn't. What happens on the screen as you got the trophy "Bros before Hos" is Orkos teleporting away while Kratos moves forward with an object Orkos gave him to help in his quest to be free of the Furies and his oath to Ares. You can watch any walkthrough on YouTube to see that I'm right. The trophy is about Orkos betraying the Furies. If you want to continue to resort to name calling then that's your choice but I won't respond to another post of yours that indulges in it.
jcfrommars9: CaptainKarma, I never said the Furies weren't women. You just misunderstood. I said the trophy doesn't have anything to do with Kratos beating up Alecto and it doesn't. What happens on the screen as you got the trophy "Bros before Hos" is Orkos teleporting away while Kratos moves forward with an object Orkos gave him to help in his quest to be free of the Furies and his oath to Ares. You can watch any walkthrough on YouTube to see that I'm right. The trophy is about Orkos betraying the Furies. If you want to continue to resort to name calling then that's your choice but I won't respond to another post of yours that indulges in it.
My mistake, had you confused with 1337mokro. Sorry mate.
Shit like this is blatant bad-faith arguments though.
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9mYW5ib3lnYW1pbmcuY29tL3dwLWNvbnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8yMDEyLzA5L2dvZC1vZi13YXItYXNjZW5zaW9uLWVuZW1pZXMtcmV2ZWFsZWQtbWVldC10aGUtZnVyaWVzMS0zMDB4MjIzLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=
Isn't a woman. No matter how many times you say it.
*snipped for space*
It has breasts. It has a female figure. It has a woman's voice. It is referred to in game as female. It takes the female pronoun. It's a woman.
You know what else has breasts, takes the female pronoun and is referred to as female?
That's a female chimpanzee. But by your logic it must be a woman right?
not surprising the even made the trophy considering the horrendously misogynistic overtones of the series. At least someone noticed how stupid it was. Kinda like the Dead Island trophy
KelDG: Thank you for agreeing with me, you are right, the argument about this trophy is "minor and trivial". But it has the pro-PC crowd defending it like it is a massively degrading misogynistic problem, just look at the first few pages. That is my point and my stance. People got wound up about this enough to actually complain to the developer about it and that is just sad.
People should be able to complain about anything they like. The fact that the developer changed it so quickly after this coming to light means that they too saw it as a problem. All they did was change they name of a trophy, not a segment of the game. I don't understand why the anti-PC crowd is frothing at the mouth because the change was made.
Church185: The fact that the developer changed it so quickly after this coming to light means that they too saw it as a problem.
An interesting point, and given the frequency of these "issues" I'm starting to think it's intentional. Think about all the free press they get from the "controversy".
We're just pawns in their game of media chess to increase sales.
Brad Shepard: People need to learn to take a damn joke.
Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.
But all the savage beatings in the previous games are all fine and dandy because they were men?
The joke was the trophy name, not the beating. The beating is just a beating. Why does it suddenly become sexist because the one being beaten is female? GOW has always been violent. No one gave a fuck when you ripped Helios' head off, or pummeled Hercs face into gooey mush, or gouged out Neptunes eyes and then snapped his neck. Hell, people didn't even complain when you threw a random, innocent women into some gears to keep a door open.
I'd wager because people weren't falling over each other to seem sensitive to women when the subject of games came up a few years back.
Funny ole' world.
Jesus Christ Escapist. These betfair captchas are fuckin awful. They don't ask a freaking question and I've tried the damn 'type this' bit 5 different times now. Sort that shit out.
Church185: The fact that the developer changed it so quickly after this coming to light means that they too saw it as a problem.
An interesting point, and given the frequency of these "issues" I'm starting to think it's intentional. Think about all the free press they get from the "controversy".
We're just pawns in their game of media chess to increase sales.
(dons tinfoil hat)
Do you believe that this could have been thrown into the game to coincide with the release of Anita Sarkeesian's new series? I mean, sexism in games has exploded as a topic here recently. Maybe you aren't too far off with your free publicity theory...
Brad Shepard: People need to learn to take a damn joke.
it'd help if the joke was actually funny and not a pathetic groaner on the best of days.
really though, donno which is more sad.
the original name of the trophy.
that people got pissed about it, it's God of War, your a little late to the party if you wanna whine about it being misogynistic, that's like whining about it being ultra violent (it basically pornography for violence fetishists)
or
that we're getting ANOTHER GoW game. fantastic ....
Time and energy you're now also wasting on something that's already done.
Ultimately, it was their choice.
Yes. But they were pressured into it.
We can't just let something like this slide. First they take our stupid jokes. Then our masculine heroes. Before you know it, all of humanity's genitals will be hanging on a golden string and used to revive the corpse of Margret Thatcher.
Meh, saw it, and compared to the beatings that the men took in the games (Poseidon, Hercules...) it is very tame by comparison. I would say it is sexist because it is not as brutal as the men's.
Kudos for the producers for making a better joke out of the popular censorship, because now instead of hearing "bros before hoes" you will be thinking it.
