You Can Finish The New Thief Without Killing Anyone

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You Can Finish The New Thief Without Killing Anyone

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The upcoming Thief reboot will come with several varying difficulties for everyone from newbies to veterans.

A large amount of video games feature killing in some way or form. In some games, it makes a lot of sense to the story and the characters, where as in others it seems like a huge disconnect to how the player character actually acts. My experience with GTA IV, for example, featured a rather comical sequence where Nico and Roman spent a cutscene being wracked with guilt for killing a single man, after which I immediately hopped into a car and ran over three police officers. Garrett, the protganist of the upcoming reboot of the Thief series is a master thief, not a crazed murderer, and Eidos Montreal has revealed that the new game can be completed without killing a single person.

"Players will have multiple ways to approach their objectives and each objective can be reached using Garrett's various tools, by exploring and by playing with your environment," said Edios Montreal, assuring fans that the Thief spirit of being able to complete objectives the way you want to is still alive and well in the reboot.

Eidos added that "Each path comes with a set of challenges, encounters and looting opportunities. Difficulty options allow the experience to be scaled for hardcore fans of the original series, but to also let newcomers have a lot of fun. And yes, you can complete the game without killing anybody - Garrett is a Master Thief, not a killing machine!" Pacifist gamers rejoyce! The difficulty options should also allow Eidos to offer a nice compromise for those hardcore fans who want their Thief experience to be as unforgiving as the original games.

The recently released Dishonored featured an achviement for completing the game without killing anyone. Mirror's Edge and Deus Ex: Human Revolution featured similar achivements, although the later did force you to "kill" a few characters in boss fight sequences.

The new Thief is slated for a 2014 release for the PC, PS4 and other next-gen consoles.

Source & Image: Only SP

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Yay all this is good news more games should take notes from this and learn ^_^

So many developers promise a "no-kill run" ability, but sabotage it in their own way.

Dishonoured had all of the fun abilities and accessories geared to kill in amazing ways.
Metal Gear Rising only lets you do it on Playthrough 2 (with a weaker weapon)
Deus Ex forced fighting sequences where in earlier games you could find a way around.

Wonder which route this one will take?

That's... kinda obvious thing to say, if we're speaking about Thief series.

I'm looking forward to this one! I'm not really surprised that you can go through the game without killing anyone though as the game is called Thief as opposed to Murderer. I was going to ask if a staple of the series was no-kill runs but realized that the games featured zombies and whatnot that you likely did have to kill...

Anyway, I look forward to more news on this one; if I can't play it on my U it'll be another reason to grab a PS4.

NameIsRobertPaulson:
So many developers promise a "no-kill run" ability, but sabotage it in their own way.

Dishonoured had all of the fun abilities and accessories geared to kill in amazing ways.
Metal Gear Rising only lets you do it on Playthrough 2 (with a weaker weapon)
Deus Ex forced fighting sequences where in earlier games you could find a way around.

Wonder which route this one will take?

hey man just look at iji, it has nine weapons, each with nine modifiers to those nine guns, but you only get the good ending if you don't actually use any of them except for the reflector at the end

for the most part, unless the game is built for it like splinter cell, noncombat gameplay involves high skill and being able to resist using most of the game's features :P

weirdguy:

for the most part, unless the game is built for it like splinter cell, noncombat gameplay involves high skill and being able to resist using most of the game's features :P

Ugh, now you've gone and made me miss Chaos Theory... (and the original, and Pandora Tomorrow) :(

That game (chaos) kicked so much ass I can't understand why they needed to shove more action in Conviction.

Hmmmm... I was a bit skeptical at first when they announced it would be a reboot and I'm still not a fan of Garrett's new design, but...

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Deus Ex: HR and Dishonored had the same thing so it's not exactly uncharted territory. Still looks interesting though.

Shoggoth2588:
II was going to ask if a staple of the series was no-kill runs but realized that the games featured zombies and whatnot that you likely did have to kill...

Well, i guess by "anybody" they meant living bodies. Besides, iirc, you could permamently "kill" a zombie only by using the holy water. Otherwise it would just stand up after a while.

I just hope, they won't add some fancy knockdown animations like in new DE. Good ol' blackjack and Bonk! to the head should do the trick.

CAPTCHA: "Be my friend?" Aww, how sweet.

It's good that it's possible, but they still said Garrett had a lot more action sequences, so I'm worried about how much emphasis and options there is for killing. Some games are advertised in the same way, and yet they offer a large range of weaponry to kill, with nothing but a single Pacifist trophy to tempt you in the other direction. The only killing I want to see is supernatural enemies, like zombies and Hammer Haunts, or if you're really, really bored after your 50th playthrough. I'll just remain cautiously optimistic for now.

It doesn't mean anything.

You can complete Hitman Absolution without killing anyone & causing accidents..doesn't mean it's similar to the previous game

You can do mini-tombs and puzzles in the Tomb Raider..doesn't mean it's similar to the previous ones

Thief will be a good game....but will it be a Thief game...

Given Yahtzee's love for the old Thief game and the fact that he criticized the obligatory violence in it (if I remember correctly) then he should be all over this game.

In a good way, I mean. :)

I've often thought about the way games oblige players to mow through zillions of petty henchmen, etc, in order for the game to be played through. I occasionally played Dragon Age: Origins with a rogue who could "stealth" past 90% of threats but I DID'T because you HAD to slaughter every available/possible baddie in order to get character level progression.

I also remember hearing of a WoW player who maxed out her character without ever killing--but had to re-spawn (or whatever--I've never played an MMO) a zillion times to do it.

This looks interesting.

MercurySteam:
Deus Ex: HR and Dishonored had the same thing so it's not exactly uncharted territory. Still looks interesting though.

The problem with HR was somewhere along the line "you don't have to kill anyone" mutated into "you get more XP for knocking everyone out" which made it pointless to attempt a pure stealth run because no bodycount=no XP. I really hope they don't make that mistake with Thief

Quellist:

MercurySteam:
Deus Ex: HR and Dishonored had the same thing so it's not exactly uncharted territory. Still looks interesting though.

The problem with HR was somewhere along the line "you don't have to kill anyone" mutated into "you get more XP for knocking everyone out" which made it pointless to attempt a pure stealth run because no bodycount=no XP. I really hope they don't make that mistake with Thief

If you got more XP for knocking everyone out then why how does "no bodycount=no XP"?

MercurySteam:

Quellist:

MercurySteam:
Deus Ex: HR and Dishonored had the same thing so it's not exactly uncharted territory. Still looks interesting though.

The problem with HR was somewhere along the line "you don't have to kill anyone" mutated into "you get more XP for knocking everyone out" which made it pointless to attempt a pure stealth run because no bodycount=no XP. I really hope they don't make that mistake with Thief

If you got more XP for knocking everyone out then why how does "no bodycount=no XP"?

Because in this context by body I mean unconscious or dead bodies vs guards who are still standing having never noticed you sneaking past. My point is stealth was sacrificed to create a game that's about stealth takedowns. By not killing or knocking out any guards in HR you would miss out on the bulk of the available xp

In The thief series there are no rewards for taking down guards, except in one or two specific missions. In fact Thief 2 has one mission where you must not takedown more than 3 guards and another where a single takedown or being seen is an instant fail.

I'm hoping the new thief game sticks to this rather than using an HR-like "points for takedowns" mechanic

Quellist:

MercurySteam:

Quellist:

The problem with HR was somewhere along the line "you don't have to kill anyone" mutated into "you get more XP for knocking everyone out" which made it pointless to attempt a pure stealth run because no bodycount=no XP. I really hope they don't make that mistake with Thief

If you got more XP for knocking everyone out then why how does "no bodycount=no XP"?

Because in this context by body I mean unconscious or dead bodies vs guards who are still standing having never noticed you sneaking past. My point is stealth was sacrificed to create a game that's about stealth takedowns. By not killing or knocking out any guards in HR you would miss out on the bulk of the available xp

In The thief series there are no rewards for taking down guards, except in one or two specific missions. In fact Thief 2 has one mission where you must not takedown more than 3 guards and another where a single takedown or being seen is an instant fail.

I'm hoping the new thief game sticks to this rather than using an HR-like "points for takedowns" mechanic

To be honest it seems to me that if you get more XP from silent takedowns/kills then it looks like they're trying to encourage the use of stealth.

Oh boy, so I can actually be a thief in a game called "Thief" instead of a murderer...

Sorry, where is the news in that? If this game would not feature and actually promote a non-lethal approach it would suck major ass. I actually fail to see any other way playing this game - what thief leaves a trail of bodies behind?

MercurySteam:

To be honest it seems to me that if you get more XP from silent takedowns/kills then it looks like they're trying to encourage the use of stealth.

How is it stealth when I leave no guard standing behind? This is one big problem I had with Splinter Cell and how I basically got perfect scores for walking around like a grizzly punching everyone in the face.

I played through Dishonored only knocking out 1 or 2 guards in each mission, mostly those that would hinder my getaway. Otherwise I managed to sneak my way through - especially the escape form the prison was fun without any powers, I did not even pick up any weapons during that.

HR had that big problem that it encouraged taking down every guard as well as walking twice or thrice through each level to find every exp trigger out there. And the stealthy ways were always as obvious as day and night.

And don't get me started on bosses and how they encouraged me to not have always an arsenal in my pocket...

MercurySteam:

Quellist:

MercurySteam:

If you got more XP for knocking everyone out then why how does "no bodycount=no XP"?

Because in this context by body I mean unconscious or dead bodies vs guards who are still standing having never noticed you sneaking past. My point is stealth was sacrificed to create a game that's about stealth takedowns. By not killing or knocking out any guards in HR you would miss out on the bulk of the available xp

In The thief series there are no rewards for taking down guards, except in one or two specific missions. In fact Thief 2 has one mission where you must not takedown more than 3 guards and another where a single takedown or being seen is an instant fail.

I'm hoping the new thief game sticks to this rather than using an HR-like "points for takedowns" mechanic

To be honest it seems to me that if you get more XP from silent takedowns/kills then it looks like they're trying to encourage the use of stealth.

Which is entirely missing my point. Ok to spell it out. Thief, unlike HR does not reward takedowns or kills in any way, thus allowing unbiased freedom of choice in your tactics.

I CAN finish the game without killing anyone, but would I? God no.

MercurySteam:

To be honest it seems to me that if you get more XP from silent takedowns/kills then it looks like they're trying to encourage the use of stealth.

To give you a recap; through stealth you can maxout the abilities.

OT:

Difficulty options allow the experience to be scaled for hardcore fans of the original series, but to also let newcomers have a lot of fun

Ah I see, they are appealing to the mainstream crowd mostly via the mechanics of the game...We all know that scaling is a cheap and ineffective way of altering difficulty whereas designing difficulty is what makes a game difficult.

...Can I get some awesome tools to support my non-combative endeavors; like the Rope Arrow, water arrow, ect.? It has been said before but when you miss out on the 'fun' stuff because you want to be non-combative becomes a little disappointing.

Yeah um...still not convinced really. If killing remains the dominant strategy, that's still a design flaw in my book (although i'll wait and see the actual game)

But the fact that they're talking about it like it's an OPTION while it was a core feature in the past games is kinda worrying. This is not an assassin/press X to silent takedown game. Engaging people should be the least wanted approach.

Ah I see, they are appealing to the mainstream crowd mostly via the mechanics of the game...We all know that scaling is a cheap and ineffective way of altering difficulty whereas designing difficulty is what makes a game difficult.

Agreed, in the original thief games difficulty was all about extra objectives and restrictions. In fact i always played the thief games on max difficulty simply because each mission had more content that way. Scaling just smacks of a quick fix solution.

My first reaction upon seeing it was "...and?"

They're removing most of the magic and aesthetics of the original games (Yes a reboot, I know) and treating this like 'Assassin's Creed but not", it worries me a little. At this point it's a hell no, but I'll wait for more info.

Gather:
...Can I get some awesome tools to support my non-combative endeavors; like the Rope Arrow, water arrow, ect.?

Actually it's been confirmed that both of those won't be there. Serious.

...okay, it's not as simple as that, water arrows have been replaced with dry ice arrows and you get a grappling hook instead of rope arrows

Busard:
Yeah um...still not convinced really. If killing remains the dominant strategy, that's still a design flaw in my book (although i'll wait and see the actual game)

But the fact that they're talking about it like it's an OPTION while it was a core feature in the past games is kinda worrying. This is not an assassin/press X to silent takedown game. Engaging people should be the least wanted approach.

Exactly. The developers need to remember that Thief is a stealth game, not a Deus Ex style Choose-Your-Play-Type stealth/action game. The thing that made Thief special was that you had the power to get yourself out of crappy situations with maybe a single guard or two, but it was at its core a stealth game.
And let me just say they better not have a pre-done take-down animation like Deus Ex and Dishonored had.

Lastly, as an insanely worried but hopeful fan, let me offer a nit-pick.

It's good that you can go through without killing anyone, though, for a Thief game, that should be a given. However, the question that really needs to be answered is, Can you get through the game without ALERTING anyone? My favorite thing to do in Thief 1 & 2 was to try and shadow through as many levels as I could, feeling like the ultimate Thief when no one even knew I was ever there. THAT is what I truly want to know.

Quellist:

MercurySteam:

Quellist:

Because in this context by body I mean unconscious or dead bodies vs guards who are still standing having never noticed you sneaking past. My point is stealth was sacrificed to create a game that's about stealth takedowns. By not killing or knocking out any guards in HR you would miss out on the bulk of the available xp

In The thief series there are no rewards for taking down guards, except in one or two specific missions. In fact Thief 2 has one mission where you must not takedown more than 3 guards and another where a single takedown or being seen is an instant fail.

I'm hoping the new thief game sticks to this rather than using an HR-like "points for takedowns" mechanic

To be honest it seems to me that if you get more XP from silent takedowns/kills then it looks like they're trying to encourage the use of stealth.

Which is entirely missing my point. Ok to spell it out. Thief, unlike HR does not reward takedowns or kills in any way, thus allowing unbiased freedom of choice in your tactics.

I get it but in HR if you're not seen (regardless if you take out guards or not), the game classifies you as stealthy.

being able to kill no one should be a given in a thief game, and mentioning this does no favours for the existing thief fanbase.. This news and Garrett's new look is really really starting to send alarm bells off in my head unfortunately.

No-kill runs (total zero body count runs, including bosses) should be a given for these type of games nowadays...

Quellist:

Ah I see, they are appealing to the mainstream crowd mostly via the mechanics of the game...We all know that scaling is a cheap and ineffective way of altering difficulty whereas designing difficulty is what makes a game difficult.

Agreed, in the original thief games difficulty was all about extra objectives and restrictions. In fact i always played the thief games on max difficulty simply because each mission had more content that way. Scaling just smacks of a quick fix solution.

I see this a different way, to make it difficult but still possible (original thief with extra loot on high difficulty) the levels will have to be designed well and interesting. Scalability will probably be on amount guards / field of view and distance of sight / noise level. This way the game can be made easier for casuals or newbies without compromising on level design.

Basically they can still make Thief as good as the original, but be able to tone it down for newbies. I don't see a problem with this.

:D GOOD!

I'm glad they're not trying to goof this up. If you HAD to kill anyone in a Thief game it wouldn't be Thief.

Well, that should be expected considering the series it's coming from, but at least this means they aren't wrecking the formula too badly.

So, they're completely rebooting the series rather than following from the ending of the last one...changing the artistic design...and making a setting that pretty much apes Dishonored, which while itself was a fun game to play, was a game clearly following in the original Thief trilogy's footsteps.

Oh dear God. I'm fast losing hope for this game. Now, granted a plague isn't a bad plot device to use, and since Garret's faced off against both major religious factions in the original trilogy, focusing on the ruling body of the City next (which the description of the game on the website seemed to suggest would happen) is a logical next step. But doing all this relatively soon after the release of a game that's already got a plot about a sneaky protagonist fighting against a fascist despot's regime during a plague AND completely changing the aesthetics so they closely mirror said game...this smacks of a money grab by trying to do a double-whammy of both ripping off a recent, popular game -and- using a popular franchise's name to try and create guaranteed sales.

Man, as they get further along in the development, they better come out with some seriously impressive gameplay trailers (that's actual gameplay, not just pre-rendered cinematics).

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