Rumor: More Evidence Suggests Always-Online For Next Xbox

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You want me to buy a console that has a built in camera with moving senors and is always connected to the internet, even when I turn the console off....no. No, Microsoft I will not.

I'm guessing these requirements are more for what the game needs to fully support more than actual requirements for all games to behave.

Meaning, you can make a game that can be run from the disk, but it also NEEDS to run from the HDD if the user takes that option, otherwise MS won't certify the game. It also makes sense for that to be a requirement if they are going DD. A game will need to be able to be run from the HDD if the user decides to buy the game digitally.

Come on,microsoft isn't that stupid
Right?
RIGHT?

It would be financial suicide if they made it all ways online DRM. Not even half of the worlds population has internet yet!
If you read the end of the article it would have said
"The wording of the sure-to-be-controversial "always-online" statement doesn't suggest that internet is mandatory for it to work, but may be talking about always having an internet connection so that it can download and update even when in the off or standby mode." -.-

There's never been any incentive for me to purchase an XBox, but this is certainly one more very significant reason to pass it up. Same for any other console that implements this feature. Count me in as a member of the "no way, no how" crowd.

Well, won't be getting the next Xbox. Looks like a console generation i'm more then happy to skip.

Steven Bogos:
The document says that the new console will maintain an always-online connection, require the use of a new Kinect device (which will be included with the console), and require all games to be installed to its hard drive.

Well, fuckin' A. I can't wait to never ever buy this.

Let's see, on my limited internet bandwidth (like 90% of the world (the parts that have internet anyhow), you want an always online, auto-patching without asking me machine. Yeah no. I had enough trouble on one of my prior internet plans with the PS3's firmware updates that couldn't be cancelled eating bandwidth.

Oh, and while we're on it. Xbox live still isn't even available someplaces.

Half (if not all) the point of discs is so you don't have to clutter up a hard drive? That and I'm not even a hardcore gamer in terms of how many I have, and I can flood a console HD prettyfast.

And no, I'm not sticking a forced always online camera in my house, especially given both console networks have had their share of major security hacks.

Captcha : Doritos (Well, how thematic)

My name is Fiction:
It would be financial suicide if they made it all ways online DRM. Not even half of the worlds population has internet yet!

A great point. I live in the outer south-east suburbs of Melbourne and my internet connection is average at best. This would likely cripple it.

Capcha: 'Well isn't that special?' - No. No it isn't.

Zachary Amaranth:

Snotnarok:

Not everything is shit but I still stand by some of these companies needing a big no to their bullshit.

A crash isn't really what you're looking for, then.

A mini-crash, whatever, just something to get a lot of these people to back up and try doing something for their customers instead of taking more away.

Sol_HSA:
Forget DRM.

That's a 3d camera in your living room that's connected to internet all the time regardless of whether you're using xbox or not.

SODOMIZE ME WITH A PIPEWRENCH. I hadn't thought of that. That's bloody terrifying.

GAunderrated:

Snotnarok:
Looks like they're going to really try and slam the always online DRM hammer down.

This may be the great video game crash all over again. People BETTER not buy into this always online crap, I'm hoping everyone is smarter than these companies give them credit for.

If people go along with it Sony is going to be mad they didn't abuse their customers first. lol.

Given Sony's history, this just might create enough irony to physically manifest.
...And then explode.

People will buy into this. The Xbox brand is too strong to fail for reasons like that.

This is just the herald of the dark, horrible future I predicted for gaming years ago. Were I strongly invested in console gaming now, this would be enough to make me quit. As it stands, little will change for me, save that if this is true I am never, ever buying the new Xbox no matter how good the games are.

EDIT: On second thought, the logistics for such a system is completely fucking bonkers.
Not every game on every system could sustain this. Blizzard had crippling issues with ONE GAME.
Imagine that happening for EVERY MAJOR RELEASE.

Well... eh, this isn't too bad. I think. My connection is super stable so always being online won't be an issue, But the Kinect. Will it be included with the console, or will I have to shell out another couple'a hundred for that as well? But I won't panic yet! The key word here is rumor, most of the time they have a habit of turning out to be false!

Well then, yet another reason why I should ditch console gaming and stick to my PC, you really aren't selling yourselves very well are you, console developers?

Snotnarok:

Zachary Amaranth:

A crash isn't really what you're looking for, then.

A mini-crash, whatever, just something to get a lot of these people to back up and try doing something for their customers instead of taking more away.

The most probable solution in which they learn their lesson is one in which sales decrease but they stay in business and relatively solvent. As much as I hate to quote jim Carrey or admit to watching the movie in question, I think the Riddler said it best: If you kill 'em, they won't learn nothin'.

Atmos Duality:

Imagine that happening for EVERY MAJOR RELEASE.

Keep in mind also that for the first couple years of XBox Live, they had serious problems keeping the service up with a new release and especially around Christmas time. Now, with XBL being what it is, it only screwed up things like online play.

But consider that they couldn't even keep THAT service up....

New World Fool:
Well... eh, this isn't too bad. I think. My connection is super stable so always being online won't be an issue

This is a valid sentiment only if YOUR connection is the only one required for you to play online.

Even people with good connections are screwed by always-on DRM.

I wish more people understood this, especially since we have precedent.

For PC and multiplayer-focused(which is why I had no problem with D3's, since I only played it online anyways, so it didn't effect me.) games, I have no problem with the always online requirement. Since I'm going to be online to play it anyways. However, I play my console single player 99% of the time(I played Battlefield: Bad Company 2 with a friend of mine for like a week before he somehow bricked his PS3), and I know a lot of people who do the same.

It would be stupid for any company to require a console to always be online. What if you travel somewhere with weak(Constant downtime)/overly expensive(that you're not willing to pay)/or just no internet? You have a $300-400(guess) paperweight.

tl;dr: For certain games, depending on the situation it's a minor inconvenience. For the ENTIRE console it's a frickin' stupid idea.

I really hope the higher-ups at Microsoft realize how stupid this would be if it even has a shred of truth in it.
Christ, it's like they would want their console to only be played by people who have incredible internet connections. What about the rest of the world, hm? XBL already crashes enough as it is for me.

I'm going to be optimistic and assume this isn't actually the truth, but if it is...?
Goodbye Microsoft.

Well MS is doing what they do best, making products with other people's ideas... It's just that this time, they forgot what a good idea looks like. If this is true, they will fail, I have no doubt.

Yikes. Between this and Windows 8, I'm not seeing a happy financial future for Microsoft.

Zachary Amaranth:

Snotnarok:

Zachary Amaranth:

A crash isn't really what you're looking for, then.

A mini-crash, whatever, just something to get a lot of these people to back up and try doing something for their customers instead of taking more away.

The most probable solution in which they learn their lesson is one in which sales decrease but they stay in business and relatively solvent. As much as I hate to quote jim Carrey or admit to watching the movie in question, I think the Riddler said it best: If you kill 'em, they won't learn nothin'.

They don't learn their lesson, they just take more stuff out of games and do more DLC, and more DRM and take less risks. I don't know , I'm not saying I have the right answer just I know something really needs to happen.

I am feeling like the OUYA will be awesome more and more jsut by comparison to everything else. I can't believe I am saying this but I have no interest in the WiiU and I still think it is the best choice between the main three thus far.

The_Echo:

Strazdas:

The_Echo:
Always online? Well, that's gonna suck major ass for people with bad Internet connections.

Or maybe people with bad itnernet connections will finally wake up and start demanding their ISP to stop charging them a fortune for some crap connection that became obsolete 20 years ago....

I'm... I don't think that's how these connections... work. And it's not always about ISPs charging a lot. Some people just plain can't/don't feel the need to afford a great connection.

It is true that a lot of palces will need replacement in cables. you know, something they should ahve done 20 years ago. the ISPs here give you free fiber optic cables and stable 300mbps internet for less money than you pay for your hardly working dialups. how are people allowing companies that so so blatantly ripping people off stay in business is unthinkable, but you do it.
if you dont "Feel the need" well now you do. and you can afford it, you just need to tell your ISP to stop charging you 10 times more than the internet should cost considering the quality you get.

Shadow-Phoenix:
Also for PC only people this thread really has nothing to do with those that are still and always will be with the PC since you never wanted a console in the first place as you see it as "inferior".

Not sure if your joking. You are aware that we, PC Master race, use this expression as a joke right? you do know that we dont think we are somehow superior? right?

My name is Fiction:
It would be financial suicide if they made it all ways online DRM. Not even half of the worlds population has internet yet!

2012 data show that 2,405,518,376 internet users are there, which is 34.3 % of the population. considernig that there are multiple people in one household and it needs only 1 internet connection, it is very likely over half the world population uses internet.
Console sales this generation is:
Xbox: Worldwide: 76 million (as of February 11, 2013)
PS3: Worldwide: 70 million (as of November 4, 2012)
Wii: Worldwide: 99.38 million (as of December 31, 2012)
That is, 245,38 millions of players, thats even ignoring the people who bought another one because the old oen broke down and such.
So in other hand, there is 9,8 times internet users than consoles on the market. If we go by world population, consoles do not even cover 3,5% of world population.

by your logic it woudl be a financial suicide to sell anything for console instead of teh Internets.

Programmed_For_Damage:

Not every game on every system could sustain this. Blizzard had crippling issues with ONE GAME.
Imagine that happening for EVERY MAJOR RELEASE.

crippling issues for 1 day...... oh no, you got to play your game 1 day later than promised, so instead of waiting 5 years you waited 5 years and 1 day, this must be the end of the world.

Zachary Amaranth:

Strazdas:

Or maybe people with bad itnernet connections will finally wake up and start demanding their ISP to stop charging them a fortune for some crap connection that became obsolete 20 years ago....

Yes, making demands of monopolies generally gets things done.

Look, you're expecting people to make a big fuss to companies known for terminating service for people who make a big fuss. Doesn't that seem...You know, unrealistic?

yeah because throwing money at them works so well too. if enough people demand it they will have no choice, go bancrupt or start working normally. of course when it comes to monopolies government should cut their wings, but its america we talk about, its the monopolies that are the government. by buying their service your not making it better. you sure there are no alternative? is things that bad?

Domogo:

You miss understand me sir, I am not saying that I cannot delete games I am saying that I will have to delete them. We live in an era of convenience I think that the idea of installing a game to the hared drive to reduce the loading times is brilliant however requiring it is a waste of time and essentially white washing everything.

Also lets consider this 1. If they actually have a 1TB hard drive (out side some 'elite' edition) I would be amazed 2. you aren't accounting for any DLC the DLC in map packs and updates for games like CodBlops take up as much if not more then the space of the game by its self, and there is another one every year at this point; and in an elder scrolls game the DLC is huge we are now to about 100 GB of Cod games and 50GB of elder scrolls by the end of this thing 3. No hard drive actually has the listed amount of space a 1 TB actually has 931 GB and that is without the massive Xbox dashboard or any apps or any movies that they will probably require you to install as well.

My estimates may be rough but I stand by them and I see this mainly as a great option they are now making an irritating requirement. Also if you think a Blu-Ray player is slow (which, if it any good, it isnt) wait till you are trying to play a game while it is downloading on a throttled speed from a server everyone else is attempting to download from all while thay are monitoring you with the same connection, then tell me blu-ray is slow.

Finally I didn't bold that section of my post for a reason :p

Kudos for keeping it cool, i can see how i can came off as agressive.
The thing is, your convenience has to be sacrificed for functionality. the games that are going to be runing on next gen consoles simply are too "big" to be read from disc. the disck reader simply is physically unable to read that fast from that many places. and unless they start selling games in mini HDDs or SDDs (which would be very expensive) there is simply no way around installing. you just cant read 20MB/s from a disc. and if you dont want to continue playing games with 5 year old grapics you have to. now mind you, personally i dont care about graphics, but you have to admit most gamers do.

Now the fact that they wont put in a HDD that is standard already is another issue. they done such in the past, heck, remember the whole "buy memory cards" deal we had last year? However the installation process was not required back then. now it is, and this gives precedence for need off large HDD. Now im no expert, but does DLCs really take THAT MUCH SPace in comaprison? DLCs are usually 10% of the games size or less. I think Skyrim and COD are exception and not the rule in this case. and even if so, thats still a lot of games you can fit in a HDD. APPs is often ignored, thats because they usually dont take any signiicant space. with current size of hard drives the application taking is small and disregarded. if you take 1 GB from 931GB your not really loosing all your space. Yes it actually has 931 GB, due to two different measure methods, not really relevant to the point, i used 1000 for simplicity in calculations.
Blue Ray player is not slow, after all it managed to run those 16 GB games. but when the game size grows, which it can on Blue Ray drive, it wont be fast enough. and trust me, we see size increase before optimization increase because thats how programing is lazy. its much easier to create something that takes more space than put same thing in less space.

And i dont buy that play as you download/install bullshit. games are not designed in a way to make this in any way possible. you would have to redesign while game programming process to make this possible. there is a reason you download and install patches with game turned off.

Strazdas:

Zachary Amaranth:

Strazdas:

Or maybe people with bad itnernet connections will finally wake up and start demanding their ISP to stop charging them a fortune for some crap connection that became obsolete 20 years ago....

Yes, making demands of monopolies generally gets things done.

Look, you're expecting people to make a big fuss to companies known for terminating service for people who make a big fuss. Doesn't that seem...You know, unrealistic?

yeah because throwing money at them works so well too. if enough people demand it they will have no choice, go bancrupt or start working normally. of course when it comes to monopolies government should cut their wings, but its america we talk about, its the monopolies that are the government. by buying their service your not making it better. you sure there are no alternative? is things that bad?

Domogo:

You miss understand me sir, I am not saying that I cannot delete games I am saying that I will have to delete them. We live in an era of convenience I think that the idea of installing a game to the hared drive to reduce the loading times is brilliant however requiring it is a waste of time and essentially white washing everything.

Also lets consider this 1. If they actually have a 1TB hard drive (out side some 'elite' edition) I would be amazed 2. you aren't accounting for any DLC the DLC in map packs and updates for games like CodBlops take up as much if not more then the space of the game by its self, and there is another one every year at this point; and in an elder scrolls game the DLC is huge we are now to about 100 GB of Cod games and 50GB of elder scrolls by the end of this thing 3. No hard drive actually has the listed amount of space a 1 TB actually has 931 GB and that is without the massive Xbox dashboard or any apps or any movies that they will probably require you to install as well.

My estimates may be rough but I stand by them and I see this mainly as a great option they are now making an irritating requirement. Also if you think a Blu-Ray player is slow (which, if it any good, it isnt) wait till you are trying to play a game while it is downloading on a throttled speed from a server everyone else is attempting to download from all while thay are monitoring you with the same connection, then tell me blu-ray is slow.

Finally I didn't bold that section of my post for a reason :p

Kudos for keeping it cool, i can see how i can came off as agressive.
The thing is, your convenience has to be sacrificed for functionality. the games that are going to be runing on next gen consoles simply are too "big" to be read from disc. the disck reader simply is physically unable to read that fast from that many places. and unless they start selling games in mini HDDs or SDDs (which would be very expensive) there is simply no way around installing. you just cant read 20MB/s from a disc. and if you dont want to continue playing games with 5 year old grapics you have to. now mind you, personally i dont care about graphics, but you have to admit most gamers do.

Now the fact that they wont put in a HDD that is standard already is another issue. they done such in the past, heck, remember the whole "buy memory cards" deal we had last year? However the installation process was not required back then. now it is, and this gives precedence for need off large HDD. Now im no expert, but does DLCs really take THAT MUCH SPace in comaprison? DLCs are usually 10% of the games size or less. I think Skyrim and COD are exception and not the rule in this case. and even if so, thats still a lot of games you can fit in a HDD. APPs is often ignored, thats because they usually dont take any signiicant space. with current size of hard drives the application taking is small and disregarded. if you take 1 GB from 931GB your not really loosing all your space. Yes it actually has 931 GB, due to two different measure methods, not really relevant to the point, i used 1000 for simplicity in calculations.
Blue Ray player is not slow, after all it managed to run those 16 GB games. but when the game size grows, which it can on Blue Ray drive, it wont be fast enough. and trust me, we see size increase before optimization increase because thats how programing is lazy. its much easier to create something that takes more space than put same thing in less space.

And i dont buy that play as you download/install bullshit. games are not designed in a way to make this in any way possible. you would have to redesign while game programming process to make this possible. there is a reason you download and install patches with game turned off.

There's a way to do it. If the critical modules are updated first (as in the ones in normal use) it's possible to update the rest of module components via certain methods. The 2nd option is that they use a streaming service to run the game remotely while the local copy completes the update. The third option would be a merging of both previous methods.

Colt47:

There's a way to do it. If the critical modules are updated first (as in the ones in normal use) it's possible to update the rest of module components via certain methods. The 2nd option is that they use a streaming service to run the game remotely while the local copy completes the update. The third option would be a merging of both previous methods.

But the "critical modules" are usually 80% of the package.
the second option IS very possible, but would double-load the internet conenction as it needs to download and stream the game (well not so much if its from a disc).

Strazdas:

Colt47:

There's a way to do it. If the critical modules are updated first (as in the ones in normal use) it's possible to update the rest of module components via certain methods. The 2nd option is that they use a streaming service to run the game remotely while the local copy completes the update. The third option would be a merging of both previous methods.

But the "critical modules" are usually 80% of the package.
the second option IS very possible, but would double-load the internet conenction as it needs to download and stream the game (well not so much if its from a disc).

Yeah, but it would still be playing the game while it is updating. The mistake right now is implying that "play while updating" means that we are playing it through 100% of the update. If we can't play for 80% of the download, but can play for the last 20%, that still qualifies the statement as being true.

Captcha: SMELLING SALT
I think captcha is trying to tell me I need more caffeine this morning.

I don't understand this...if it's not plugged into the Net, what happens exactly?
And why would a company close the doors to millions of potential customers who have no or poor access to the Net?
If I was buying a console for a child between 6-16, I wouldn't connect it to the Net anyway.

Doing all three of those would be utter suicide in the console market. Motion controls are still fiddly, there are people who despise DRM, and I don't want to have to delete a game just so I can play a new one at all. Microsoft can be a lot of kinds of stupid, but that would just be staggering.

Seriously, I'd just buy a PC. It's upgradeable as I get the money, has most of the games I want, and there's a modding scene for a lot of games.

Programmed_For_Damage:

My name is Fiction:
It would be financial suicide if they made it all ways online DRM. Not even half of the worlds population has internet yet!

A great point. I live in the outer south-east suburbs of Melbourne and my internet connection is average at best. This would likely cripple it.

Capcha: 'Well isn't that special?' - No. No it isn't.

Its just people taking things out of context or leaping away from the DRM shadows. Its just silly. Like most of the Escapist these days.

Jburton9:

I had a very similar thing happen to me, I was paying for Live gold at the time and I had recently renewed it because it was required in order to stream netflix. Also at that time a new dashboard was recently rolled out and it was now hitting me with full video adverts along with several other panels covered with ads.

After contacting Microsoft, my simple support issue turned into a two week long process of trying to opt out of ads. I already had it set in my options from the beginning to opt out yet microsoft ignored it completely. I was getting mazda full video streaming ads that were rolling along even when several panels away which wastes my bandwidth for something I did not want or even ask for.

I went through each step microsoft support asked me to go through yet the ads kept pouring in. I asked why was it that I was getting ads even as a full subscriber? In reply I was told it was enhancing my xbox live experience... Wow what corporate spin. I then asked well it is your platform why can't you turn them off? The rep said they do not control the panels on xbox live. I replied, that is an outright lie. It is a microsoft product from end to end and even more I have been to your website where you will happily sell me ad space and even sell me xbox live user metrics.

At that point I asked for a full refund of my recently renewed gold account. I then said "before you would have had a customer now you get nothing, I will leave my xbox nic unplugged so you will get zero data. From that moment on I have boycotted microsoft products.

A short while after that I went out and purchased a PS3 and overall I have had a much better experience with Sony vs microsoft.

We should start a club. And get jackets. In all seriousness, I'm glad that Sony has treated it's customers at least reasonably well so that we can still play on consoles.

Sol_HSA:
Forget DRM.

That's a 3d camera in your living room that's connected to internet all the time regardless of whether you're using xbox or not.

That is a little too much 1984 for my liking. Plus I never used a Kinect nor do I want to, if wanted more of that nonsense I wouldn't have given my Nintendo Wii away.

I'm no a fan of this always online business or DRM even though I always pay for games it's an inconvenience. Console games have never had that large a piracy issue so you know this is simply to prevent used game sales in the long run and it will start with making discs optional and then irrelevant.

If it comes down to Microsoft doing always online and Sony not there will be clear winner for my next gen assuming I don't do what increasingly seems to be the smart thing and upgrade my PC to be decent gaming one instead.

Strazdas:

Kudos for keeping it cool, i can see how i can came off as agressive.
The thing is, your convenience has to be sacrificed for functionality. the games that are going to be runing on next gen consoles simply are too "big" to be read from disc. the disck reader simply is physically unable to read that fast from that many places. and unless they start selling games in mini HDDs or SDDs (which would be very expensive) there is simply no way around installing. you just cant read 20MB/s from a disc. and if you dont want to continue playing games with 5 year old grapics you have to. now mind you, personally i dont care about graphics, but you have to admit most gamers do.

Now the fact that they wont put in a HDD that is standard already is another issue. they done such in the past, heck, remember the whole "buy memory cards" deal we had last year? However the installation process was not required back then. now it is, and this gives precedence for need off large HDD. Now im no expert, but does DLCs really take THAT MUCH SPace in comaprison? DLCs are usually 10% of the games size or less. I think Skyrim and COD are exception and not the rule in this case. and even if so, thats still a lot of games you can fit in a HDD. APPs is often ignored, thats because they usually dont take any signiicant space. with current size of hard drives the application taking is small and disregarded. if you take 1 GB from 931GB your not really loosing all your space. Yes it actually has 931 GB, due to two different measure methods, not really relevant to the point, i used 1000 for simplicity in calculations.
Blue Ray player is not slow, after all it managed to run those 16 GB games. but when the game size grows, which it can on Blue Ray drive, it wont be fast enough. and trust me, we see size increase before optimization increase because thats how programing is lazy. its much easier to create something that takes more space than put same thing in less space.

And i dont buy that play as you download/install bullshit. games are not designed in a way to make this in any way possible. you would have to redesign while game programming process to make this possible. there is a reason you download and install patches with game turned off.

I think the only thing you aren't under standing is that I might not ever reach the max (though I can see it happening dependent, as I said, on things like apps and movies and the other things that consoles are attempting to gobble up), however if I do I will be forced to go out of my way to uninstall a game. My point is that they have taken a great optional service and now forced a required service on us.

Also, I just realized, by removing the optical drive play you are removing the main feature for backwards compatibility, even if the drive is not fast enough to play brand new AAA games it will still be able to play older games which either means I have to install all of my older games (which is still better then sonys not backwards compat) and fill the space with that, or it will be just like the PS4 and have no backwards compat (with no good reason I might add).

Here's the thing.

I don't really try to buy into the hype any more than anyone else. you get burned more that way.

But all these are damning things in this gaming industry now. Most people consider movement gaming to be a fad that needs to die away already, DRM and always online, limited install space... It's all completely sucidial.

Now if you were the head of the company. In the wake of Aliens Colonial Marines, Street Fighter X Tekken on disc DLC, Origin's overcharging and banning, ME3 and that fall out, Diablo 3, Sim City; to put it shortly, just the mess the last 15 months have been for gaming as a whole... and with gamers being as Irate and ready to pounce on anything... wouldn't you take any chance to swat down these rumors?

I mean wouldn't you want to be the company that says it understands? To get the consumer base that's acting like a neglected and abused dog, lashing out at anyone who looks like they are going to do the same? If this weren't the case, why wouldn't you give a resounding 'NO!' the second these rumors come up?

Yeah, sure, you don't respond to every rumor there is. But you definitely respond to the rumor that your new console will literally be everything the modern gamer hates with a passion if it's not the case.

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