Woman Loves Science, Astounds Facebook

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Zeldias:

Ukomba:
Isn't it more likely that the name 'Andrew' is a boy name and so the assumption that Andrews is male a natural one to make?

I'd always assumed the page was run by multiple people. More surprised that it's controlled by one person than that it's a woman.

Would be, except Andrews is clearly a surname because of the S at the end. Like, I've never met anyone with the first name Michaels or Reynolds or whatever; the S almost always denotes a surname.

I did assume it was multiple people too, though. Give the seemingly endless barrage of images, I'd figured there was a company of the motherfuckers working round the clock.

...except it isn't Andrews. It's Andrew.

I am not surprised that people are surprised, how many intelligent women are allowed their 15 minutes of fame or even have voices to be heard in most media? There is a big gender bias that deludes the masses. In this current decade when you hear about a woman doing something significant, and her gender is emphasized at all, chances are it's a story like this:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.403861-Adria-Richards-Gets-Two-People-Fired-Over-Dongle-Joke-At-Tech-Conference

I blame everyone for this though, not just the media. It's both the media and people in general that eat this crap up with a spoon.

Breaking news! Woman on the internet sighted!
Hold the presses, everyone!

(Seriously, am I missing the joke? What's this really about?)

thaluikhain:
Are many people actually surprised that this surprised many people?

Hopefully they get over it, though, and it doesn't devolve into rape threats and so on.

Why would it?

She didn't do anything to piss people off.

I also should really say this. This is what happens when people start taking the comedic jokes as absolute truths. Which really is something I can now simply say is a bad thing about pop culture is that what is meant to be a joke is taken too seriously later on. Such as...

Woman on the internet? There are no womans on the internet!

Lara Croft is nothing more than a set of breasts.

The DOA series is nothing more than smut.

Sure we all laugh at a good joke but when the joke is being taken as the truth instead of a joke that is when these problems arise.

I mean honestly, think of an internet joke that you know that has suddenly become some sort of absolute truth. Has that joke stopped being a joke but instead part of some narrative that people push or people take advantage of for their own personal gain?

I have a facebook sometimes sciency page thingy too!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/110639962374869/
Why can't I get a controversy!? Women get all the luck.

(If you're actually interested in my page, the last few posts aren't the best, and most of them are in dutch. So if anyone happens to be interested in it I suggest scrolling down.)

Tenmar:
I also should really say this. This is what happens when people start taking the comedic jokes as absolute truths. Which really is something I can now simply say is a bad thing about pop culture is that what is meant to be a joke is taken too seriously later on. Such as...

Woman on the internet? There are no womans on the internet!

Lara Croft is nothing more than a set of breasts.

The DOA series is nothing more than smut.

Sure we all laugh at a good joke but when the joke is being taken as the truth instead of a joke that is when these problems arise.

I mean honestly, think of an internet joke that you know that has suddenly become some sort of absolute truth. Has that joke stopped being a joke but instead part of some narrative that people push or people take advantage of for their own personal gain?

I am not sure why, but sometime around last year, it all seemed to "stop being funny". Around about the time the Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution "controversies" cropped up. Since then, pretty much everything and anything based around gender has become a huge argument.

I'm not sure if it's a "straw that broke the camels back" situation or something, but it is somewhat concerning.

People seem to have a lot thinner skin than when they did around the time I joined here in late 2008.

Legion:

Tenmar:
I also should really say this. This is what happens when people start taking the comedic jokes as absolute truths. Which really is something I can now simply say is a bad thing about pop culture is that what is meant to be a joke is taken too seriously later on. Such as...

Woman on the internet? There are no womans on the internet!

Lara Croft is nothing more than a set of breasts.

The DOA series is nothing more than smut.

Sure we all laugh at a good joke but when the joke is being taken as the truth instead of a joke that is when these problems arise.

I mean honestly, think of an internet joke that you know that has suddenly become some sort of absolute truth. Has that joke stopped being a joke but instead part of some narrative that people push or people take advantage of for their own personal gain?

I am not sure why, but sometime around last year, it all seemed to "stop being funny". Around about the time the Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution "controversies" cropped up. Since then, pretty much everything and anything based around gender has become a huge argument.

I'm not sure if it's a "straw that broke the camels back" situation or something, but it is somewhat concerning.

People seem to have a lot thinner skin than when they did around the time I joined here in late 2008.

I never got the Hitman controversy. Not all women in this game universe are promiscious and wear leather and nun outfits. Is it wrong to have psychotic or weird or different women in a game all of sudden? Just one group of women have to be off for people to cry feminism?

Ukomba:
This just in, there are also people surprised that there are men who like My Little Pony.

Deviants, all of them.

Pinkamena:

Ukomba:
This just in, there are also people surprised that there are men who like My Little Pony.

Deviants, all of them.

I'm sorry I had to bust a gut when I looked at your avatar in relation to the comment. Ahh comedy timing is perfect there. Well done.

More Kotaku-tier journalism

What's this got to do about videogames?

Zeldias:

Ukomba:
Isn't it more likely that the name 'Andrew' is a boy name and so the assumption that Andrews is male a natural one to make?

I'd always assumed the page was run by multiple people. More surprised that it's controlled by one person than that it's a woman.

Would be, except Andrews is clearly a surname because of the S at the end. Like, I've never met anyone with the first name Michaels or Reynolds or whatever; the S almost always denotes a surname.

I did assume it was multiple people too, though. Give the seemingly endless barrage of images, I'd figured there was a company of the motherfuckers working round the clock.

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Andrews

Anyways, surname or not it's more of a subconscious thing. In the same way certain names or last names may make you think a person is a certain race before seeing them. It's not like it's a bad thing when that happens, just how the human mind works, and I think most people were pleasantly surprised by the revelation, which is why so many people commented on it. It's really easy to mistake tone when reading text.

Pinkamena:

Ukomba:
This just in, there are also people surprised that there are men who like My Little Pony.

Deviants, all of them.

Deviantart mostly :)

Akratus:

Legion:

Tenmar:
I also should really say this. This is what happens when people start taking the comedic jokes as absolute truths. Which really is something I can now simply say is a bad thing about pop culture is that what is meant to be a joke is taken too seriously later on. Such as...

Woman on the internet? There are no womans on the internet!

Lara Croft is nothing more than a set of breasts.

The DOA series is nothing more than smut.

Sure we all laugh at a good joke but when the joke is being taken as the truth instead of a joke that is when these problems arise.

I mean honestly, think of an internet joke that you know that has suddenly become some sort of absolute truth. Has that joke stopped being a joke but instead part of some narrative that people push or people take advantage of for their own personal gain?

I am not sure why, but sometime around last year, it all seemed to "stop being funny". Around about the time the Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution "controversies" cropped up. Since then, pretty much everything and anything based around gender has become a huge argument.

I'm not sure if it's a "straw that broke the camels back" situation or something, but it is somewhat concerning.

People seem to have a lot thinner skin than when they did around the time I joined here in late 2008.

I never got the Hitman controversy. Not all women in this game universe are promiscuous and wear leather and nun outfits. Is it wrong to have psychotic or weird or different women in a game all of sudden? Just one group of women have to be off for people to cry feminism?

Most of the complaints seemed to be about the fact that they were sexy women getting beaten up. The perception being that it glamorised violence using sexualisation, that it was meant to make violence seem sexy.

Then people begin to mention how it represented the typical view of women in games and it just kind of snowballed from there.

Personally I consider it over analysing, but to be honest, most controversies stem from that. Like a woman who wrote an essay on Portal a few years back. She claimed that the companion cube represented a father figure and the portals represented vaginas. Burning the companion cube was a case of "casting aside the father figure" and going through portals was "penetration".

I don't see half of the perceived issues with gaming and sexism to be much different to be honest. If you work hard enough at it, you can find a "hidden meaning" in anything.

I mean hell, just look at the Damsel in Distres trope. If you really wanted you could argue that it isn't sexist towards women because "It is about heroic men claiming objects" but that it is sexist towards men because it is "About men having to do all of the hard physical work and having to put themselves in danger".

That's not to say I think that is true, I consider both to be as ridiculous as the other, but you really can twist anything you like to be sexist/racist/homophobic if you try hard enough.

But I am veering off topic.

In this case, I think there is a good point to be made that she shouldn't be getting all of these messages along the lines of "OMG your a woman? That is so hot!". I don't think most of the guys are trying to be offensive, but she does make a valid point when she says:

"Funny, when an attractive man speaks about his achievements, the comments are about his achievements, not his looks."

That said, there are many people, both men and women who would simply be flattered.

Sam17:
More Kotaku-tier journalism

What's this got to do about videogames?

Honestly I don't mind The Escapist having articles about something other than video games. If a site wants to do well it needs to figure out not just their foundation but what connects to that foundation and what kind of content is viable that people would be interested in.

I mean take Engadget. Successful site but it certainly didn't just stick to computer parts. It expanded into mobile, video, hardware, software and so many different facets of technology that would make an average person's headspin.

I mean honestly if it wasn't for The escapist for taking risks like There will be Brawl and then recruiting Moviebob and creating Game Dogs and other animated shorts then this site would be very boring.

Legion:
... or that they are all telling her how hot she is ...

The argument being that nobody would be behaving like this if she was a male.

I object to this one statement. If a rather attractive male scientist were leading the page, I think you'd get plenty of comments saying how surprisingly good looking he is for a stereotypically "nerdy" (ugly) field.

At least, that's what I'd expect from Facebook. Hell, even though I knew she was a woman ahead of time, I didn't expect her to be attractive, much like I wouldn't expect your male scientist running such a popular page to be attractive.

When I learn of somebody who I've no idea what they look like, I usually default them to being average or mildly unattractive, since that tends to be the case. Being intelligent AND attractive is fairly rare, male OR female, and I think that those types of comments would be fairly prevalent if it was a male at the helm instead.

I admit that I could be wrong, but I don't think that gender plays nearly as big of a role in the attractiveness part as some have suggested.

I hate that facebook page. Maddox summed up my general thoughts on it:
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=youre_not_a_nerd

On topic, I'd be surprised to find out someone who went by "Anderw" not "Andrews" or her first name, Elise, was a woman.

Ukomba:
This just in, there are also people surprised that there are men who like My Little Pony.

For real?

You must be joking. Surely if those people exist, they must hide their fandom to avoid ridicule and be pretty hard to find.

chadachada123:

Legion:
... or that they are all telling her how hot she is ...

The argument being that nobody would be behaving like this if she was a male.

I object to this one statement. If a rather attractive male scientist were leading the page, I think you'd get plenty of comments saying how surprisingly good looking he is for a stereotypically "nerdy" (ugly) field.

At least, that's what I'd expect from Facebook. Hell, even though I knew she was a woman ahead of time, I didn't expect her to be attractive, much like I wouldn't expect your male scientist running such a popular page to be attractive.

When I learn of somebody who I've no idea what they look like, I usually default them to being average or mildly unattractive, since that tends to be the case. Being intelligent AND attractive is fairly rare, male OR female, and I think that those types of comments would be fairly prevalent if it was a male at the helm instead.

I admit that I could be wrong, but I don't think that gender plays nearly as big of a role in the attractiveness part as some have suggested.

I agree, I don't think there'd be much difference at all if it was the other way around. Brian Cox is constantly called hot, and he is probably the most well known British scientist. He isn't the most well known because of his scientific achievements, but because of who he is.

That's not to say that I am against that. He seems like a really cool guy, and is really passionate about science, and I think it's good to have somebody who can give a more PR role to science, God knows we need more of them in this country.

Father Time:

Ukomba:
This just in, there are also people surprised that there are men who like My Little Pony.

For real?

You must be joking. Surely if those people exist, they must hide their fandom to avoid ridicule and be pretty hard to find.

Indeed, they are as hard to find as women who love science. I believe it's all a big conspiracy some times called 'free will' or 'self determination'. An effort is being made to crush this rampant individualism with things like SOPA and CISPA, but, sadly, have met with little success.

maxben:
The whole point is, even if you are surprised, to make a big deal of it is ridiculous

That is exactly what it is, of course the first commentors on the matter only expressed their surprise, then the lady made a bigger deal out of it, and now "journalists" inflated it into a full on news story, and to top it off people are loosing their shit in the comments... ridiculous doesn't even begin to describe it actually.

Ukomba:

Father Time:

Ukomba:
This just in, there are also people surprised that there are men who like My Little Pony.

For real?

You must be joking. Surely if those people exist, they must hide their fandom to avoid ridicule and be pretty hard to find.

Indeed, they are as hard to find as women who love science. I believe it's all a big conspiracy some times called 'free will' or 'self determination'. An effort is being made to crush this rampant individualism with things like SOPA and CISPA, but, sadly, have met with little success.

I'm honestly not sure if you didn't get the joke or are just playing along.

Father Time:

Ukomba:

Father Time:

For real?

You must be joking. Surely if those people exist, they must hide their fandom to avoid ridicule and be pretty hard to find.

Indeed, they are as hard to find as women who love science. I believe it's all a big conspiracy some times called 'free will' or 'self determination'. An effort is being made to crush this rampant individualism with things like SOPA and CISPA, but, sadly, have met with little success.

I'm honestly not sure if you didn't get the joke or are just playing along.

Ya, tone is hard to read in text ;), I'm playing along. The community is so active and vocal, that mlp can win polls it isn't even listed in, and no forum exists that doesn't have a someone using an mlp profile pic. :D

Mr.K.:

luvd1:
Thank you again Internet for reminding me of the collective stupidity of people. I don't know what's worst, that some people thought she was a male, that some people were shocked she wasn't a male or that people felt they had to post their shock that she was not a male.

And if Yahtzee told everyone he is actually a lady people would not be shocked at all right?
If you use a name that is predominantly used by one gender people will take that as a given, and if their reality gets shattered down the line they might be a little shocked by it.

But hey when the sexism flamewars need fuel might as well chuck it on the pile.

Given that Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw has a male-sounding voice, has identified as being male, and has various photographs out there showing him to be a man, it would be legitimately shocking if he was actually a woman.

But a woman who likes science? Not exactly a mind-blowing revelation.

Tenmar:
I also should really say this. This is what happens when people start taking the comedic jokes as absolute truths. Which really is something I can now simply say is a bad thing about pop culture is that what is meant to be a joke is taken too seriously later on. Such as...

Woman on the internet? There are no womans on the internet!

Sure we all laugh at a good joke but when the joke is being taken as the truth instead of a joke that is when these problems arise.

Yes, I'm quite annoyed at people always assuming I'm a guy.
Or going so far as accusing me of 'white-knighting' if I say something about feminism or whatever...

I always assume anyone I don't know the actual sex of to be genderless.

First of all, what an overly sensationalist news title. "Woman loves science, astounds Facebook"? People were surprised that a science lover they had been following turned out to be female, FYI she had made herself known as "Andrew". Think about that for a bloody second, of course people are going to assume it's a guy! So when it turns out to be a woman, yes her followers will be surprised - but does that mean they were astounded by the fact that women can love science in general? Of course not, how ridiculous. Way to completely twist the situation/tone, slow news day indeed eh Escapist?

Secondly, a lot of the big-time science nerds who have become Youtube/TV hits are male. For example VSauce, Michio Kaku, SciShow, Minute Physics, etc...

For the full list, see here: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-science-youtube-channels-you-cant-miss/

All 10 of those top channels have an overwhelmingly male presence, so it is absolutely no surprise for people on the internet to generally assume that a science nerd is going to be male. That's just how it is.

But when it turns out to be a female, a small bit of surprise is totally believable. It sure as hell didn't need a news article published on a gaming site with a title that completely twists the scenario to draw attention.

Female scientists are everywhere, absolutely everywhere - and so are female science lovers! They've been around for hundreds of years, even if not recognized.

My greatest concern is that Elise Andrew will become known as "that female science lover" instead of just "that science lover". Her being female is now going to draw a lot more attention...and I don't know whether I like that. It's good for her, but gives me a bad feeling about the overall image.

bravetoaster:
Women in science are less shocking than doctors in hospitals.

Is that where doctors live? I thought their natural habitat was the golf course?

On topic: Is it really that amazing that people are that surprised that a woman is doing this? One need only look at our institutions of power to realize that gender equality isn't quite realized yet.

Mr.K.:

luvd1:
Thank you again Internet for reminding me of the collective stupidity of people. I don't know what's worst, that some people thought she was a male, that some people were shocked she wasn't a male or that people felt they had to post their shock that she was not a male.

And if Yahtzee told everyone he is actually a lady people would not be shocked at all right?
If you use a name that is predominantly used by one gender people will take that as a given, and if their reality gets shattered down the line they might be a little shocked by it.

But hey when the sexism flamewars need fuel might as well chuck it on the pile.

I think I see what you're getting at here, but your analogy doesn't work well because at this point we know as a fact that Yahtzee is a male. He identifies himself as one and frequently refers to it. So yes, it would be a surprise, because it contradicts what we are absolutely certain of.

In this case, however, the people who were shocked had made the assumption on their own that the owner of the account was male. They assumed the gender and stuck with it because they hadn't seen any evidence to the contrary, and if they did search for any evidence at some point they would have quickly found it was a female. The only information to be contradicted is whatever unfounded assumptions they made.

I think I'm at the point now where people being surprised over stuff like this isn't surprising to me anymore.

Just a 'sigh' and move on to the next article. :/

Lilani:

In this case, however, the people who were shocked had made the assumption on their own that the owner of the account was male. They assumed the gender and stuck with it because they hadn't seen any evidence to the contrary, and if they did search for any evidence at some point they would have quickly found it was a female. The only information to be contradicted is whatever unfounded assumptions they made.

Well, to be perfectly fair they didn't know it was a 'she' that was blinding them with science.

...

I'll get my coat, the door is over there, right?

Moontouched-Moogle:

Mr.K.:

luvd1:
Thank you again Internet for reminding me of the collective stupidity of people. I don't know what's worst, that some people thought she was a male, that some people were shocked she wasn't a male or that people felt they had to post their shock that she was not a male.

And if Yahtzee told everyone he is actually a lady people would not be shocked at all right?
If you use a name that is predominantly used by one gender people will take that as a given, and if their reality gets shattered down the line they might be a little shocked by it.

But hey when the sexism flamewars need fuel might as well chuck it on the pile.

Given that Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw has a male-sounding voice, has identified as being male, and has various photographs out there showing him to be a man, it would be legitimately shocking if he was actually a woman.

But a woman who likes science? Not exactly a mind-blowing revelation.

It's not that she's a woman who likes science, it's just that more men like science so you expect the person in charge of the biggest facebook group with science in it to be male. IMO it's just playing the odds rather than some "there are no women into science" thing.

Well, her name is Andrew.

I've never heard of a women named Andrew.

But a women who "fucking loves science", who cares? Idiots that's who.

Ok, first, the fact that people are surprised that a woman can love science, disappoints me. Why wouldn't there be some science loving women out there? Science can be fucking awesome!

And secondly, this song was what instantly popped into my head when reading that headline:

Could not care less who runs the Facebook site. I love it regardless.
Been a frequent visitor there for quite some time.

PedroSteckecilo:
Like... 90% of the "I Fucking Love Science" shares that show up on my Facebook Feed are from women... What I really find strange is that people find it so strange that women can "fucking love science"...

This.

I actually had to stop for a moment after I read this and try and remind myself why it is women aren't supposed to fucking love science. I'm completely baffled. When exactly was it that women... What difference does it make if... I can't... What?

My brain's shut down.

OT: I'm not surprised that she's a woman because it kind of came through in her posts. I am surprised that this is news though. And I don't mean that in a cynical way just that I didn't realise she was that big.

At least I hope she's big. Otherwise this is weird. Is every girl that does a STEM subject and has a blog going to get press coverage? That's not really... I dunno... Is that helping?

The main person that reposts them that I know is a she. Not even remotely surprised. Most of the posts are quite irritating.

Legion:
I think it is supposed to be about how people are so surprised that she is a woman. That people either automatically assumed she was a man beforehand, or that they are all telling her how hot she is, or hot it is that she is a scientist.

In fairness, I think women being scientists is quite sexy, probably wouldn't tell them though over the internet.

If anything I'd like everyone to realise that people can still like things like I fucking love science and clearly be absolute morons, thinking that she surely must be a dude. I find their posts equally irritating as my friends who share bloody bible quotes in their statuses. Basically, being fond of science or being an atheist is not evidence of that person being at all intelligent.

thaluikhain:

Ummm...here's hoping it doesn't lead to wide-ranging societal improvements?

no, no, that's counter-jinxing, that won't work.

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