Blizzard Plans Big Warcraft PvP Changes

Blizzard Plans Big Warcraft PvP Changes

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Hope you didn't spend too much time getting all that Resilience PvP gear.

"We face some significant challenges," says Blizzard in a World of Warcraft blog post, "so we're prepared to take some unprecedented steps to meet them." The challenge is balancing PvP gear; Blizzard really doesn't want your toon's kit to be the reason why you're beating on the PvE crowd all the time. Its proposed solution? Weeeeell ... it may not be for the faint of heart. The following 5.3 changes will be implemented:

Base Resilience will be set to 65% for all characters level 85 and higher
Resilience will be removed from nearly all PvP gear
Players will still be able to use Resilience gems and enchants
PvP power will remain exclusively on PvP gear
PvP set bonuses that currently provide Resilience will now provide PvP Power
Healers and hybrid-casters will benefit to a greater degree from PvP Power, and Battle Fatigue will increase to make PvP gear superior for healers.
Conquest gear will be increased to item level 496 (up from 493).
Elite gear will be decreased to item level 496. This gear will essentially become a prestige upgrade.

The Big Change: We will be adding an item level ceiling to all gear in unrated Battlegrounds, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas.
All gear with item levels higher than 496 will be scaled down to 496 (Conquest gear item level). This includes even Conquest items that exceed the level ceiling, such as weapons.

In addition, some of the changes that we've discussed previously will also be implemented:
In patches that don't include a new season (including patch 5.3), the seasonal currency requirement of 7,250 Conquest Points earned will be lifted from weapons. The seasonal currency requirement must always be met to purchase Elite items, though.
Once the 27,000 Conquest Point seasonal currency requirement is reached, players will be able to purchase Tyrannical Gladiator's gear with Honor Points.
The Conquest Point catch up cap will be introduced. You can read our PvP Gear in 5.2 and Beyond blog for more information on these changes.

"The competitive nature of PvP means that highly geared players can serve as a deterrent to players who are looking into trying PvP for the first time," says Blizzard. This change is all about increasing participation; now players' Resilience and Stamina boosts will be broadly the same, whether their gear is PvP or PvE, though weapon damage still favors PvP gear. Increasing survivability, Blizzard hopes, will be enough of a carrot to tempt PvE geared players onto the battlefield.

Only time will tell whether that tactic will be successful, but Blizzard's hoping that players will share their views on the subject.

Source: Blizzard blog

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Eh. This was a complaint I had a VERY long time ago. Too little too late, I say. Not nearly enough to get resubs from folks I don't think.

Not a bad idea, still wonder just how large effect it will have.

Dammit Blizzard. Don't do shit that makes sense. I am quite happily quit of you, thanks.

This is a good thing for PvE players but kind of a slap in the face to PvP players. I know for sure that the reason I took part in the grind for great PvP gear was so I could walk all over the unprepared. That was a part of the fun of PvP, single handedly taking out a group of people that thought their raid sets made them invincible but then running for your life from a group of PvP geared enemies.

So basically they are going back to the way PvP was in vanilla WoW? But now instead of having to earn your gear (get into a guild raiding Black Wing Lair and hoping a piece of gear you needed dropped) you basically just have to get tokens from raiding or daily quests? (assuming they are still doing tokens... I stopped playing right before Cataclysm released)

VanQ:
This is a good thing for PvE players but kind of a slap in the face to PvP players. I know for sure that the reason I took part in the grind for great PvP gear was so I could walk all over the unprepared. That was a part of the fun of PvP, single handedly taking out a group of people that thought their raid sets made them invincible but then running for your life from a group of PvP geared enemies.

and then you end up fighting the same three teams each season because anyone that potentially wanted to try PvP got steamrolled in PUG arenas.

It got to the point with me that every class I went against did the exact same tactics. Only once did I see a priest team and they nearly won due to their shadow getting love from heals.

While this would of been a good thing, say back when PvP was actually good and seasons were something to look forward to, cant say this makes me want to go back.

Too little, too late Blizzard.

Kalezian:

and then you end up fighting the same three teams each season because anyone that potentially wanted to try PvP got steamrolled in PUG arenas.

It got to the point with me that every class I went against did the exact same tactics. Only once did I see a priest team and they nearly won due to their shadow getting love from heals.

While this would of been a good thing, say back when PvP was actually good and seasons were something to look forward to, cant say this makes me want to go back.

Too little, too late Blizzard.

To be fair, I hated the Arena from its very conception and never took part in it for more than a few matches. I much prefer BGs and world PvP. However, Blizzard officially killed world PvP with WotLK so all that was left for me were BGs and a bit of Wintergrasp. Wintergrasp was dildos.

I miss Vanilla PvP the most, back when it was a public humiliation for the Horde of your server to raid Orgrimmar and kill Thrall. Of course, the same could be said for successfully raiding the Stormwind Keep, of course.

The idea of PVP gear has always struck me as massively retarded. It's the main reason I never got into pvp in WoW as well. Tera Online has a similar problem as well as RIFT. I'm personally pretty amazed it's like everyone saw WoW get pvp gear and decided they had to copy them to have good pvp only to realize that in copy blizzards Idea's they were also copying their problems.

Blizzard....what needs to happen to PvP for people to be more interested in it is to severely nerf the effectiveness of Crowd Control and Healing in PvP. Right now you spend most of your time not in control of your character due to all the stuns, snares and other CC, and it takes a ridiculous amount of people to down a healer or anyone being healed by one because healing is so effective.

Paragon Fury:
Blizzard....what needs to happen to PvP for people to be more interested in it is to severely nerf the effectiveness of Crowd Control and Healing in PvP. Right now you spend most of your time not in control of your character due to all the stuns, snares and other CC, and it takes a ridiculous amount of people to down a healer or anyone being healed by one because healing is so effective.

Yup - And now classes that have no business healing, outside of bandages, are healing. There's nothing quite as terrible as thinking you've got the drop on a warrior only to see victory rush heal them for the majority of their life, and then get stun locked (by a warrior) to death.

Every time i log into WoW to PvP some, I always find myself saying,'well that just happened,' after (in full pvp gear mind you), getting globaled by some classes like mages, warlocks, or warriors (i'm a rogue). I'm sure it's different in rated BGs/Arenas, but it's just so tiresome now.

While I played WoW long enough to be able to understand what all of that meant, whenever I read something from the developer about seasons, resilience, item levels, scaling, etc, it just reminds me of how tiresome the whole of WoW pvp is, and how it was so much better and so much more fun back in vanilla when it was all about a vicious world pvp feud with the other players who were foolish enough to choose the other faction.

PvP and PvE will never peacefully coexist. "Why can't I raid in PvP gear?" "There's no point in trying PvP if I'm going to get stomped in top tier raid gear." "I don't want to have to raid to get the best gear for PvP (or vice versa)." and nobody wants to grind through PvP to get geared up and then turn around and go through another, separate, equally long grind for raid gear.

Sure, the answer is, "Just play the part of the game you like best." But that leaves people only getting to play half the game. It's a model that leaves everyone dissatisfied.

This IS a good thing, I really enjoyed BGs but every time I played I got curb stomped by the other players, it turn't into a freaking joke. I know I was spec'd to Tank but damn I was getting ganked by freaking Warlocks!

Only took them, what, 5 or 6 years to figure this out? Sigh. I and so many countless others saw the problem resilience would present days after it was implemented...

Their putting a cap on gear?

Essentially saying "If you've farmed better gear than this, fuck you?" And they're getting rid of Resilience, but not really?

I've got to ask - why? The classes need tweaked and rebalanced more than the PVP system does. The problem with WoW's PVP is its become a series of gimmicks because each expansion they have to find a way to make the classes fresh, new and interesting.

They have this weird thing where Casters are fine because they're untouchable, Plate Wearers are fine because they all have a self heal and take reduced damage, but leather wearers are the easiest things to kill because A. They don't get any range advantages B. They get no buffs to their shields and C. They are reliant on CCing to kill anything. So, if you blow your cooldowns downing one person, the 4 other warriors will want to introduce their face to your skull and theres nothing you can do about it.

The PVP system hasn't really felt right since Cata, and I'm not sure THIS is the way to fix it. They ultimately dug themselves in this whole with the homogenization of classes, roles and specs. The new talent system was a bandage on the two broken femurs of WarCrafts combat.

Seriously. Blizzard. If you're listening to some nobody on a semi-popular non official forum, take my advice. Scrap World of Warcraft. I mean scrap it. Redo the entire game on a modern engine with modern mechanics. Tweak the classes according. Don't be afraid of alienating people - If you make the game to pants-shitting easy, you'll lose the interest of the veteran players. You can make the game accessible AND deep. If you want to fix WoW, you're going to have to do a TON of work to it. Its getting too old and too big for its own good.

Honestly WoW's PvP was a lost battle from the start, there are just too many things to try and balance, especially by this point since we now have 2 extra classes in the mix as well.

I'd say just remove PvP and change all PvP servers to have an endless supply of Level 1 bot 'players' that you can kill.

Very interesting, still not going back though because it's a game aimed at children/babies now.

Doesnt change a goddamn thing.. you remove resilience except on gems/chants.. pve'ers arent going to gem/chant their pve gear for pvp so its still gear dependent, just a tiny bit less. You up the damage/healing (pvp power) of pvp gear in pvp so pvp gear is significantly better than pve gear, making it MORE gear dependent. Its just a gear/class dependent cluster fuck which is why "BLIZZARD FIX PVP PLZ" is still the best arena team in the world. Just give everyone the same gear in pvp like gw2 and make pvp about skill and not whos spent the most hours grinding.

edit: removing the ilvl disparity in pvp gear is a step in the right direction though

I'm worried this will have a big impact on the sense of progression in PvP. You can't grind yourself from the bottom of the foodchain to the top anymore. Sure you can still get cosmetic rewards and learn how to play better, but you can no longer get "bigger numbers"[1]. And if there's one thing WoW was good at, it was the satisfaction of getting to increase your numbers.

[1] By "numbers" I mean the different attributes and such

Gosh I haven't played WoW since Cataclysm, is there still a PvP gear grind? That's the single-biggest thing that put me off WoW (I played mainly for PvP), every season you would have to spend 1-2 weeks honor-grinding yourself silly to get yourself the latest flavor of armor/weapons/misc.
It was nothing more than pointless PADDING because every single player ended up with roughly the same set of PvP gear anyway (just how it should be), why make everyone grind for hours and hours? Gear grinding should be for PvE nuts who care all about what shiny piece of loot they'll get next...but PvP should never be about gear. Even the 2200+ rated stuff should be purely cosmetic.

Yuuki:
Gosh I haven't played WoW since Cataclysm, is there still a PvP gear grind? That's the single-biggest thing that put me off WoW (I played mainly for PvP), every season you would have to spend 1-2 weeks honor-grinding yourself silly to get yourself the latest flavor of armor/weapons/misc.
It was nothing more than pointless PADDING because every single player ended up with roughly the same set of PvP gear anyway (just how it should be), why make everyone grind for hours and hours? Gear grinding should be for PvE nuts who care all about what shiny piece of loot they'll get next...but PvP should never be about gear. Even the 2200+ rated stuff should be purely cosmetic.

Because tying competitive advantage to grind is a cheap and very effective way to keep people playing for longer.
Just as tying anything to grind, really.

Random thought: Perhaps there is reason League of Legends rose in popularity as WoW fell.
MOBAs encapsulate the WoW PvP experience, and lop off most of the padding. It also places everyone on more even starting terms.

NOooooooooo, I mean i agree that it makes it better but I will miss lighting up pve'rs who tried to stop me. Nothing like seeing a guy in raid gear with 150k more health than you thinking he can take you then putting him in a graveyard before you even bother to blow CDs.

I swear the way they go about it its like trying to lure a badger out of a badger hole :P

I'm not opposed to PvE gear being *viable*. But it shouldn't be more powerful. The reason I say this is because when I last played arenas, I wasn't getting stomped too hard by people with superior PvP gear. No, the people that stomped me were the people who had legendary PvE weapons. Why the fuck are legendary PvE weapons allowed into arenas? Or has that been changed?

miketehmage:
I'm not opposed to PvE gear being *viable*. But it shouldn't be more powerful. The reason I say this is because when I last played arenas, I wasn't getting stomped too hard by people with superior PvP gear. No, the people that stomped me were the people who had legendary PvE weapons. Why the fuck are legendary PvE weapons allowed into arenas? Or has that been changed?

PVP power kind of nullified pve weapons, cause most ofyour pvp power comes from weapons to not have it is to take a pretty big dps hit. ( like going from 30% increased damage to 50+% with a pvp weapon) and with gear now being locked at 496 when you enter even if you have some heroic weapon its not gonna be more than 496 in a bg/arena.

They should just merge PVE and PVP gear stats so you can choose which way you want to progress.

\o "Hi, i'm Sleekit and i played WoW for 5 years. i've been clean since 2010."

i honestly think WoW PvP was at its best was single server only, you knew the folk you were fighting against and with and AV games could go on for 3 days :P

so what if it wasn't perfectly "balanced" it was f'ing FUN and imo it fitted the game better.

i agreed with Rob Pardo when he said arena was probably their biggest mistake.

i didn't play an mmorpg to play small map team deathmatch pvp.

i wanted huge batshit crazy battles.

and AV was that...at least on my server.

if i wanted to play small map team deathmatch pvp i could fire up a dozen other games and they were inherently more "balanced".

gawd, i remember laughing my head off during some of those games...

when WoW PvP became a "srs bsns"...i personally lost interest.

that's my 2 cents and they ain't worth much as i'm firmly an ex-player now.

All this is is more catering to PvE player.
WoW realized who their largest base is, and will do anything to make them happy. The funniest part is, as a whole, their base is a whiny idiot that doesn't know any better, and by giving them everything they want, they wind up losing their interest and shooting themselves in foot.

rednose1:
All this is is more catering to PvE player.
WoW realized who their largest base is, and will do anything to make them happy. The funniest part is, as a whole, their base is a whiny idiot that doesn't know any better, and by giving them everything they want, they wind up losing their interest and shooting themselves in foot.

So Pandas, Pokemon and Removal of skilltrees was to appease their "base"?

Seriously, WoW has changed its target audience more towards kids. And that is one of the reasons why it will lose more and more players in the coming months/years. They even lost players in q4 2012 and q4 is usually one of their strongest times because a lot of people are at home (cold, snow and stuff).

The changes for the PVP won't change anything. They playerbase will continue to bleed out because Blizzard pushed their most important customers away....

I'm utterly shite as a PvP-er, and any skilled, geared and competitive PvP player is going to eat me for breakfast and make a bongodrum out of my undead arse. And that is, honestly, how I like it.

I like PvP, even if it doesn't go very well for me, but I don't like being shortbussed to things in general. If someone is better than me, it's probably for a reason, as much as people love to claim it's rampant imbalance at work.

Paragon Fury:
Blizzard....what needs to happen to PvP for people to be more interested in it is to severely nerf the effectiveness of Crowd Control and Healing in PvP. Right now you spend most of your time not in control of your character due to all the stuns, snares and other CC, and it takes a ridiculous amount of people to down a healer or anyone being healed by one because healing is so effective.

True, I'd rather see that. You might as well not bother with a keyboard sometimes, it feels like.

nodlimax:

rednose1:
All this is is more catering to PvE player.
WoW realized who their largest base is, and will do anything to make them happy. The funniest part is, as a whole, their base is a whiny idiot that doesn't know any better, and by giving them everything they want, they wind up losing their interest and shooting themselves in foot.

So Pandas, Pokemon and Removal of skilltrees was to appease their "base"?

Seriously, WoW has changed its target audience more towards kids. And that is one of the reasons why it will lose more and more players in the coming months/years. They even lost players in q4 2012 and q4 is usually one of their strongest times because a lot of people are at home (cold, snow and stuff).

The changes for the PVP won't change anything. They playerbase will continue to bleed out because Blizzard pushed their most important customers away....

Well to be fair, I don't think Pokemon or the Pandaren would be a very good way to attract kids, since they'd probably be the first to feel distanced by them. Kids in general would probably prefer a veneer of fake maturity, like more gore and swearing. Pandas and Pokemon would probably just stimulate their "Gayness, denounce it!"-instinct.

If they were deliberately targeting kids, they'd probably be trying to look more like Gears of War.

So they're buggering Resillience again. How many times is this now?

Eh, whatever. I have a Sargent Major from the original PvP title back in Vanilla, and you don't see many of the original titles anymore. I'll content myself with that until the hypothetical day 80 bazillion years in the future when they bring back 3 day Alterac valleys.

Yuuki:
Gosh I haven't played WoW since Cataclysm, is there still a PvP gear grind? That's the single-biggest thing that put me off WoW (I played mainly for PvP), every season you would have to spend 1-2 weeks honor-grinding yourself silly to get yourself the latest flavor of armor/weapons/misc.
It was nothing more than pointless PADDING because every single player ended up with roughly the same set of PvP gear anyway (just how it should be), why make everyone grind for hours and hours? Gear grinding should be for PvE nuts who care all about what shiny piece of loot they'll get next...but PvP should never be about gear. Even the 2200+ rated stuff should be purely cosmetic.

Actually there's a worse grind now (because its 100% mandetory and you need to have a complete pvp set instead of mix and matching).. before when you used to be able to run a somewhat competedative glass cannon build or at least have more throughput than the pvp geared people. Now you have less throughput (healing and dps) and less mitigation. Blizzard made pvp completely inaccessible to casuals or even pve'ers

I mean i remember doing a 2v2 double feral team in cata and we were north of 2400 in almost entirely pve gear (like trinks and 2 set was it), now i get owned in random bgs by keyboard turners because i have no pvp gear (maybe not quite that bad.. but pretty damn close)

nodlimax:

rednose1:
All this is is more catering to PvE player.
WoW realized who their largest base is, and will do anything to make them happy. The funniest part is, as a whole, their base is a whiny idiot that doesn't know any better, and by giving them everything they want, they wind up losing their interest and shooting themselves in foot.

So Pandas, Pokemon and Removal of skilltrees was to appease their "base"?

Seriously, WoW has changed its target audience more towards kids. And that is one of the reasons why it will lose more and more players in the coming months/years. They even lost players in q4 2012 and q4 is usually one of their strongest times because a lot of people are at home (cold, snow and stuff).

The changes for the PVP won't change anything. They playerbase will continue to bleed out because Blizzard pushed their most important customers away....

The q4 subscription decline after a massive subscription surge in q2/q3 with the arrival of MoP was something that was expected and happens with every new iteration of every mmo. Net subscriptions for the year remained unchanged.

And the notion that theyre targeting children would only come from someone who hasn't actually played MoP. Or even an MMO for that matter. I mean what is the premise there? You're going to use pandas to lure in teenagers/preteens? The ones who only play console games and never RPGs? They're targeting even younger? Trying to get 8-9 year olds to switch from the MMOs they aren't playing (at all) to one of the most expensive MMOs? Or some kid is going to get a wow subscription just to play a worse version of pokemon?

WoW has dominated the MMO market since 2004, just dominated. It's going to decline eventually, but it's not going to be from alienating the playerbase it's going to be from an increasingly diverse MMO market and an aging video game.

Fluffythepoo:
Actually there's a worse grind now (because its 100% mandetory and you need to have a complete pvp set instead of mix and matching).. before when you used to be able to run a somewhat competedative glass cannon build or at least have more throughput than the pvp geared people. Now you have less throughput (healing and dps) and less mitigation. Blizzard made pvp completely inaccessible to casuals or even pve'ers

I mean i remember doing a 2v2 double feral team in cata and we were north of 2400 in almost entirely pve gear (like trinks and 2 set was it), now i get owned in random bgs by keyboard turners because i have no pvp gear (maybe not quite that bad.. but pretty damn close)

Err...a 2v2 double feral team making it to 2400 in mostly PvE gear was a huge problem. All skill aside, your primary tactic would've been basically destroying people in the first 5 seconds of opening and using instant cyclone to keep the other party CC'd. Worst comes to worst, switch targets/focus and repeat, hit bear form to delay/reset DR's (I believe bear form + survival instincts was near-impossible to kill at one point, PvP gear or not). Didn't Ferocious Bite also crit for eye-popping amounts of damage? You get the idea.
Despite it being very cheap, I don't look down on you for simply doing what the game allowed...at least it helped make the issue more obvious to Blizzard.

I PvP'd from Season 1 to Season 11 bouncing between a mage, lock and warrior...and became a firm believer that the only way to balance PvE and PvP once and for all was to completely separate them. Not only separate gear (i.e. resilience/PvP power) but also separate NUMBERS on individual abilities.
Over 11 seasons and 3 expansions I saw Blizzard hopelessly try to solve an un-solvable puzzle of repeatedly buffing/nerfing abilities in PvE only to have them have disastrous effects in PvP, and fixing stuff in PvP only to have it negatively impacting PvE. The same thing even ensued with gear, PvE set effects were tweaked and trinkets nerfed because they were too strong in PvP. You didn't need to be a genius to figure out that legendaries were flat-out broken in PvP fights (thunderfury, warglaives, mage staff, DS daggers, endless repeats of history) and that PvE trinkets were also huge culprits (hero charm, reign/deathbringer, DS trinkets, etc). We're talking gear that should've flat-out been BANNED from all forms of rated (and even un-rated) PvP.

The solution was so fucking obvious, it was staring Blizard in the face! But GhostCrawler kept saying the same things over and over again like "we don't want to resort to that, it's still one game"...all while wearing MASSIVE contradiction helmets, because they still ended up separating shit like PvP stats (resilience / PvP power), CC durations (different PvE/PvP durations), fucking absurd "shared-DR" systems that worked on moon-logic (not even going to bother explaining), Deep Freeze (different PvE/PvP effects), Colossal Smash (different Pve/PvP values), etc. What...a...mess!

Anyway I went off on a tangent there, my earlier point about grinding PvP gear as that everyone should be simply HANDED a basic PvP gear set without having to grind it. Look at Guild Wars 2, now that's how it's done. To start PvP, you first teleport to another zone where there are gear vendors, masters, etc (similar to the war/BG rooms in WoW). Except that the moment you zone into that area, EVERYONE is immediately dressed in a "standard issue" PvP gear set and you cannot equip any other gear from your inventory. There are vendors handing out free gems, free enchants, free respecs (yes, free respecs!) so you can pretty much go absolutely nuts with customizing to your heart's content...you can be a glass cannon if you want, but the standard-isue PvP set still keeps you in check and keeps you from stacking gear that would allow you to insta-kill someone. I don't know whether WoW simply lacks the technology to pull that off, or whether the idea simply didn't appeal to Blizzard or what.

ArenaNet understood that arena-style competitive PvP should ultimately boil down to SKILL and TEAMWORK, not who is waving the biggest sword and has spent the first 2 weeks of every season grinding themselves silly. You can get flashier-looking PvP pieces, but they are purely cosmetic and don't offer any advantage - just be sure that if you come across a rather fancily-dressed enemy in PvP, he will be highly skilled and difficult to bring down even though his gear is the same as yours. That's how it should be!! No grinding FFS, that is for PvE/story fans!

sneakypenguin:

miketehmage:
I'm not opposed to PvE gear being *viable*. But it shouldn't be more powerful. The reason I say this is because when I last played arenas, I wasn't getting stomped too hard by people with superior PvP gear. No, the people that stomped me were the people who had legendary PvE weapons. Why the fuck are legendary PvE weapons allowed into arenas? Or has that been changed?

PVP power kind of nullified pve weapons, cause most ofyour pvp power comes from weapons to not have it is to take a pretty big dps hit. ( like going from 30% increased damage to 50+% with a pvp weapon) and with gear now being locked at 496 when you enter even if you have some heroic weapon its not gonna be more than 496 in a bg/arena.

Ahh yeah that makes sense, cheers :)

 

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