Brenda Romero Resigns IGDA Post Over GDC Party - UPDATED

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

DVS BSTrD:
I wonder what she must have thought of all the female cosplayers at PAX.

Probably didn't. After all, it's not like management went out and hired them to do it.

Baresark:

Akalabeth:

Baresark:

TL;DR: I'm all for her fighting against things she doesn't agree with, but martyrdom in this situation and throwing away her position of power is just childish.

It's called having principles.

That was quick. I figured it was only a matter of time before someone had something smug to say, but one sentence is very disappointing. It's completely flawed reasoning to remove herself from her position of substantial power just because of some dancers. And her overreaction, even one based off of principles, does not forward her cause in any way. She could have complained after the fact and gotten the rules changed, maybe enlightened people about something she did not agree with. Now she has made a move that is more divisive than anything else. We should all applaud her on her principles, but she gets negative points on her pride. She is literally crying over spilled milk, which by definition is expressing vain regret over that which cannot be changed or undone. Essentially, she could not change this party, but she could change the next one and all others after that. She still might, but she threw a tantrum and threw away her position of influence when that didn't need to happen. I don't disagree with her gripe, but I disagree with how she handled it.

Edit: What I'm saying may change based on more information. But right now that is what the situation reads as.

No, you're reading all sorts of bullshit into her motivations. Tantrum? Throwing a fit? Crying? Why are you making her sound childish when the quote on the matter is anything but childish? If anyone is being childish it's you because you're assuming the worst of her even when it's contrary to the facts.

When the strongest statement a person can make is resignation, it doesn't display them as proud and arrogant it displays them as someone who understands their own worth. They know that by resigning the association they're with will be worse off, and they also know that to be complicit in something they so strongly disagree with they de-value themselves both in their own mind and the minds of their supporters.

Over-react much? It's a party. They're adults.

mehh...to be honest, not enough details on if it was a party that was FUNDED by the GDC, or if it was just a night club by the conference that everyone went to.

if it was the former, then yeah, that was in a bit of bad taste, they should've hired ones that cosplayed a bit (both male and female) and that probably would've been sufficient, but eh, this feels like making a "mountain out of a molehill" incident with resigning your job over this. she could have shown her discomfort through other means.

but hey, i don't feel like i know quite all the details here enough to make a fully informed decision, so i'll hold back until anything else comes up.

A feminist over-reacting to something? It must be a day that ends with a y.

Perhaps people like Adria Richards and this woman should take a trip to Saudi Arabia. Either they would find out what real oppression of women is, or they would find their new homes in the land of sexual repression.

How else would Brenda Romero get attention ? Im not sure whos the bigger attention whore, her or John.

Akalabeth:

Baresark:

Akalabeth:

It's called having principles.

That was quick. I figured it was only a matter of time before someone had something smug to say, but one sentence is very disappointing. It's completely flawed reasoning to remove herself from her position of substantial power just because of some dancers. And her overreaction, even one based off of principles, does not forward her cause in any way. She could have complained after the fact and gotten the rules changed, maybe enlightened people about something she did not agree with. Now she has made a move that is more divisive than anything else. We should all applaud her on her principles, but she gets negative points on her pride. She is literally crying over spilled milk, which by definition is expressing vain regret over that which cannot be changed or undone. Essentially, she could not change this party, but she could change the next one and all others after that. She still might, but she threw a tantrum and threw away her position of influence when that didn't need to happen. I don't disagree with her gripe, but I disagree with how she handled it.

Edit: What I'm saying may change based on more information. But right now that is what the situation reads as.

No, you're reading all sorts of bullshit into her motivations. Tantrum? Throwing a fit? Crying? Why are you making her sound childish when the quote on the matter is anything but childish? If anyone is being childish it's you because you're assuming the worst of her even when it's contrary to the facts.

When the strongest statement a person can make is resignation, it doesn't display them as proud and arrogant it displays them as someone who understands their own worth. They know that by resigning the association they're with will be worse off, and they also know that to be complicit in something they so strongly disagree with they de-value themselves both in their own mind and the minds of their supporters.

Right because its so much more effective to change something your no longer involved in ?

It's a party. This is what goes on at parties, get used to it.
Secondly, this really is pushing the whole equality thing a bit too far. I'm all for equality when it's natural equality, things like being equal in the eyes of the law, but when it comes to this kind of forced equality, you can't have scantily clad dancers because there's no male ones to match, that gets a little bit stupid (and if you're going to tow the "there should have been none of any gender" line, well A: that's not a gender equality issue that's a professionalism kind of issue and second of all we really don't need more sexual repression). When you're catering to a, let's be honest, mostly male audience, why shouldn't you be allowed to have scantily clad dancers? Because it might offend some people? I know people who'd hate the fact that there was music, or hate how crowded it was, so should we remove all the music from parties too and all maintain a safe five meter distance from each other at all times? I think not. Equality everywhere all the time isn't going to be possible and this really is going too far in the way of equality at the cost of everyone else's liberties. Let them have their scantily clad dancers. If there's a demand for male ones, let there be male ones too. If nobody wants them, get rid of them. But don't get rid of them because it's not oh so perfectly equal to have only one gender getting paid to dance around on stage for a while.

Oh here we are again, everybody flipping their shit because someone spotted a mildly attractive female... meanwhile half the cosplayers run around in high heels and bikinis, not to mention how things end up when these people get drunk.

No I don't think go go dancers have a place at such events but making a calm and collected complaint about it is what civilized people do, not have everyone involved resign and possibly burned at the stake.

Oh noes, women in costumes at a party! I better resign and whine like a bitch over a non thing.

DVS BSTrD:
I wonder what she must have thought of all the female cosplayers at PAX.

I don't think that voluntary cosplayers at a public event are comparable to hired performers at a official event (this is a little thing people tend to oversee).

This was not a party remotely compareable to the ones in nightclubs at every goddamn day. Someone should've know that in the context of the event it was a fucking stupid move to hire such kind of performers.

There needs to be some balance here, look at some of the wording in this article "A serious uproar has erupted". If that sentence was said without context you would be thinking "has something happened in the middle east? Has North Korea launched something else?" ... no, some girls wore skimpy clothing.

people quitting and stuff is just as stupid as hiring the girls, making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

It should be more of a "fucking really?" than "I quit".

I'm of the opinion "get your boobs out of my gaming" but I'm not going to boycott gaming till DOA dresses there females like nuns.

Razorback0z:

Akalabeth:

Baresark:

That was quick. I figured it was only a matter of time before someone had something smug to say, but one sentence is very disappointing. It's completely flawed reasoning to remove herself from her position of substantial power just because of some dancers. And her overreaction, even one based off of principles, does not forward her cause in any way. She could have complained after the fact and gotten the rules changed, maybe enlightened people about something she did not agree with. Now she has made a move that is more divisive than anything else. We should all applaud her on her principles, but she gets negative points on her pride. She is literally crying over spilled milk, which by definition is expressing vain regret over that which cannot be changed or undone. Essentially, she could not change this party, but she could change the next one and all others after that. She still might, but she threw a tantrum and threw away her position of influence when that didn't need to happen. I don't disagree with her gripe, but I disagree with how she handled it.

Edit: What I'm saying may change based on more information. But right now that is what the situation reads as.

No, you're reading all sorts of bullshit into her motivations. Tantrum? Throwing a fit? Crying? Why are you making her sound childish when the quote on the matter is anything but childish? If anyone is being childish it's you because you're assuming the worst of her even when it's contrary to the facts.

When the strongest statement a person can make is resignation, it doesn't display them as proud and arrogant it displays them as someone who understands their own worth. They know that by resigning the association they're with will be worse off, and they also know that to be complicit in something they so strongly disagree with they de-value themselves both in their own mind and the minds of their supporters.

Right because its so much more effective to change something your no longer involved in ?

It's the culture that needs to change, not the organization, and accomplishing the first is not reliant upon the second.

Do a little research.

1. The resignation was symbolic. She had *three days* left in her voluntary position. This wasn't her throwing a shitfit and tossing her career away. She's far from the only one, as well. A number of people have stated that they've canceled future association with the company in question.

2. Yetizen was the co-sponsor of the event with the GDC. And at a conference where major panels were held about women in game development, they decided that topless dancers were the way to go. On the arm of the CEO no less. And yes, body-paint from the waist up is topless.

TheKasp:

DVS BSTrD:
I wonder what she must have thought of all the female cosplayers at PAX.

I don't think that voluntary cosplayers at a public event are comparable to hired performers at a official event (this is a little thing people tend to oversee).

This was not a party remotely compareable to the ones in nightclubs at every goddamn day. Someone should've know that in the context of the event it was a fucking stupid move to hire such kind of performers.

The thing is though we don't even know if they were hired performers or merely employees of said night club. I mean that little bit of context is pretty important because then you just had a person who is agreeing to work at a night club(or possibly contracted by said night club) for events where people get to party.

Even if they were hired then we still have to ask if the clothes were picked out by the women themselves or selected by the IGDA or the night club? Cause two of those possibilities basically mean she quit her job completely unrelated to the IGDA.

Seriously, Brenda Romero resigned!? How can the gaming industry possibly continue?

I mean, who in heaven's name is this person and why the bloody hell should we care about what she does? Good fucking riddance, I say. Seeing the picture of the event that was posted by rhizhim, I've seen girls in similar attire appear in clubs/pubs around town flogging drinks/club flyers to people of all genders and you know what? Nobody gives a toss, regardless of their gender. This uptight bitch may have resigned from whatever it was she was a member of, but she could probably do us all a favour and resign from this, and any other, plane of existence.

In other news, The Two Towers is currently showing on Film 4 tonight and Gandalf has just returned, so this silly little event pretty much fades into complete insignificance in comparison.

People wearing revealing clothing and dancing? Quick alert the fucking police! There's a music gig I'm going to tomorrow with the same circumstances!

Seriously lass don't upset yourself over such a small thing, a party not to your taste doesn't constitute bad taste and you should get some thicker skin.

I-Protest-I:
People wearing revealing clothing and dancing? Quick alert the fucking police! There's a music gig I'm going to tomorrow with the same circumstances!

Seriously lass don't upset yourself over such a small thing, a party not to your taste doesn't constitute bad taste and you should get some thicker skin.

pft, you just don't get it. They're providing paying jobs to women, they have to put a stop to that.

Ok, it looks like YetiZen provided that entertainment without clearing that kind of stunt with the IDGA folks.

Right after panels about the situation of women in the gaming industry and all the goddamn fucking shit we read in the twitter feeds about harassment of women in the industry, some silly people throw skimpily dressed models in to the mix at a party of gaming industry professionals, that includes lots of women to boot.

Kinda like having bachelor-party stripper entertainment jump out of the wedding-day cake.

If I was overreacting I'd ask if those people who put the entertainment together have actually ever had a girl friend.

All the men here who have screwed up in the slightest in a relationship and actually recognized that they did something wrong could spot what the stupid faux pas this was. And those of you who couldn't need to work on it.

Ukomba:

I-Protest-I:
People wearing revealing clothing and dancing? Quick alert the fucking police! There's a music gig I'm going to tomorrow with the same circumstances!

Seriously lass don't upset yourself over such a small thing, a party not to your taste doesn't constitute bad taste and you should get some thicker skin.

pft, you just don't get it. They're providing paying jobs to women, they have to put a stop to that.

Just wish people would calm down over this stuff, there are actual issues to focus on and this detracts from them.

Okay, people. The issue is not that the women were scantily clad, or that women dancing is inherently bad / offensive. That's stupid. The issue is that, at an industry event that should have been somewhat professional, there were women hired to dance as entertainment. For eye candy. Especially in an industry going through the crucible of dealing with misogyny and normalized sexism, this was a tremendously bad call to make.

Ask yourself this: What did the dancers bring to the party? What was the purpose of having them there? Would having music, drinks, video games to play not be enough? Why was it so important to cater to the straight male gaze by having womens' bodies as entertainment?

If you go to a strip club, you are aware that you are going to see sexualized forms. You are implicitly consenting to this by going to a strip club.

If you go to an industry event, you are not.

The issue, again, is NOT "Oh no there are women in skimpy costumes." A woman who wants to dress up like Mai Shiranui for cosplay is doing it over her own volition. A woman who works at a strip club for her work is doing it of her own volition. Thus, the problem is not with the women who were dancing & doing their jobs, but with the company who hired them.

The Plunk:
A feminist over-reacting to something? It must be a day that ends with a y.

Perhaps people like Adria Richards and this woman should take a trip to Saudi Arabia. Either they would find out what real oppression of women is, or they would find their new homes in the land of sexual repression.

Yes, because we sure can't deal with any inequality at home until we have COMPLETELY SOLVED IT elsewhere. Dude, that's silly.

(And once again, this has nothing to do with sexual repression. At all. For either of them.)

Akalabeth:

Razorback0z:

Akalabeth:

No, you're reading all sorts of bullshit into her motivations. Tantrum? Throwing a fit? Crying? Why are you making her sound childish when the quote on the matter is anything but childish? If anyone is being childish it's you because you're assuming the worst of her even when it's contrary to the facts.

When the strongest statement a person can make is resignation, it doesn't display them as proud and arrogant it displays them as someone who understands their own worth. They know that by resigning the association they're with will be worse off, and they also know that to be complicit in something they so strongly disagree with they de-value themselves both in their own mind and the minds of their supporters.

Right because its so much more effective to change something your no longer involved in ?

It's the culture that needs to change, not the organization, and accomplishing the first is not reliant upon the second.

On the contrary. Im not just posting as a gamer with a side interest in this topic. I have qualifications in organisational change management and have been coaching employees, managers and executives on cultural change for many years.

You simply cannot affect something by walking away from it. Your protest will have a minimal and short lived effect. You will be replaced by someone more motivated and the journey of the organisation will continue.

By your logic Nelson Mandela should have left South Africa in order to end apartheid.

Whenever you are in doubt about this, conduct this experiment, its called "the bucket indispensability test". Fill a bucket with water, put your head in it, pull your head out, if you leave a hole in the water, you are indispensable.

If the IGDA/GDC have institutionalised/cultural problems as you suggest then the way to assist the organisation with those issues is by positively influencing the leaders. This is difficult from inside the organisation and impossible from without. Resignation is sometimes the only direction for a personal moral compass and that's fine. But more often than not it is self serving and attention seeking.

In this instance we are talking about at least one individual (Romero) who has barely ever had a photo taken that could be described as anything other than an attempt at "glamour". Given who she is and given her background and current circumstances, I think the motivations are very clear and extremely narcissistic.

So I looked her up on Wikipedia and found this:

She also worked on other notable IPs including games such as Def Jam: Icon, Playboy: The Mansion, Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes, and others.

The woman getting her knickers in a twist over a few scantily clad dancers at a party worked on a Playboy game.

image

Another day, another overreaction because of perceived sexism.

What'll it be tommorow I wonder?

Razorback0z:
*snip*

You quoted me, but ignored my first point. She wasn't "leaving a position where she could have made a difference". Her resignation made a grand total difference of *three days*. It was a statement, nothing more.

John Funk:
*snip*

Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.

JarinArenos:

Razorback0z:
*snip*

You quoted me, but ignored my first point. She wasn't "leaving a position where she could have made a difference". Her resignation made a grand total difference of *three days*. It was a statement, nothing more.

I was replying to Akalabeth and my reply actually supports your point. Read it again.

"given her current circumstances" <-- the reference to your valid point.

Akalabeth:

Baresark:

Akalabeth:

It's called having principles.

That was quick. I figured it was only a matter of time before someone had something smug to say, but one sentence is very disappointing. It's completely flawed reasoning to remove herself from her position of substantial power just because of some dancers. And her overreaction, even one based off of principles, does not forward her cause in any way. She could have complained after the fact and gotten the rules changed, maybe enlightened people about something she did not agree with. Now she has made a move that is more divisive than anything else. We should all applaud her on her principles, but she gets negative points on her pride. She is literally crying over spilled milk, which by definition is expressing vain regret over that which cannot be changed or undone. Essentially, she could not change this party, but she could change the next one and all others after that. She still might, but she threw a tantrum and threw away her position of influence when that didn't need to happen. I don't disagree with her gripe, but I disagree with how she handled it.

Edit: What I'm saying may change based on more information. But right now that is what the situation reads as.

No, you're reading all sorts of bullshit into her motivations. Tantrum? Throwing a fit? Crying? Why are you making her sound childish when the quote on the matter is anything but childish? If anyone is being childish it's you because you're assuming the worst of her even when it's contrary to the facts.

When the strongest statement a person can make is resignation, it doesn't display them as proud and arrogant it displays them as someone who understands their own worth. They know that by resigning the association they're with will be worse off, and they also know that to be complicit in something they so strongly disagree with they de-value themselves both in their own mind and the minds of their supporters.

I will continue to read this as a bad decision because she resigned instead of actually trying to change anything. The strongest statement she could have made was to make a public statement about how disappointed she was with the affair and like an adult voiced her opinion and actually have changed something. It is complete nonsense to just throw away what she had, her position, which granted her far more power to cause change than anything else. Like I said in my edit, as soon as I see evidence otherwise, such as she was disrespected or people spoke badly of her or hindered her job in some way, or at least received some kind of push back on some statements she could have made condemning the situation. But she was feeling all cloud 9 from the panel and then saw reports on the party (didn't even attend herself) and just quit.

You took some of the things I said out of context. "Crying over spilled milk" is a descriptive analogy for the situation. It means she is essentially upset about things that had already happened that could not be changed. I didn't say she was "crying", I used a descriptive metaphor that you only found insulting because you wanted to find it insulting. I also never used the phrase, "throwing a fit" in any of my statements. I did use tantrum and I still think that is, with the evidence given, an appropriate statement. She resigned her position based on second and third party information presented to her.

You see it how you see it, but I don't see it that way. I applaud anyone willing to stick to their guns, even if I think they picked their fight poorly. It's not like I have less respect for her for doing what she did, I just think it was a mistake and in the long run it won't change much.

As an aside:
As a side note, it's crazy how people are reacting to this situation. Life is all about picking your fights, and this was a stupid fight to pick. Lots of people are resigning due to this stupid event. They are essentially abandoning an organization that does a lot of good over a few girls in skimpy outfits. It's just... it's just so stupid. It's like when everyone was attacking Live Strong because of Lance Armstrong. "Forget the fact that the organization did a lot of good in the world, this one thing is wrong so fuck them". You can fight all you want about this, defend the people who had "principles" or hate the people who had "principles", but you just end up throwing away so much good over literally nothing that affects the game industry in any way.

Legion:

John Funk:
*snip*

Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.

They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.

Baresark:

Legion:

John Funk:
*snip*

Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.

They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.

Of course it is, everything always is.

The fact that there were dancing women in revealing outfits isn't the issue. The problem is to do with the attitude of the people who hired them. It shows a lack of sensitivity as well as a fair few assumptions.

To be honest, John worded it much better than I can think of, the post I quoted him from sums it up. It's the fact that there has been a lot of issues with perceived sexism in the games industry as of late. Hiring dancers as eye candy for the male guests is not the kind of thing a smart company would do during such times.

I have already said before, I think she and other people have overreacted, but it doesn't make the company any less idiotic for doing what they did.

We're open, so damn open, especially to women. But as soon as we see women doing something that we don't want them to do... rawrblargh!!

Honestly this is getting annoying. It was a party right? People do stupid things at parties, both men and women. Let it slide, have fun and just because it's something you wouldn't do doesn't mean a big fuss has to be made about it. A quiet word or perhaps actually talking to the people you have a problem with would do much more than throwing hissy fits over the internet.

Blown way out of proportion. Party is not professionalism. As far as I'm concerned, whether they were payed or not if you call it a 'party' and throw alcohol into the mix who cares if there are some scantily clad women, hell throw some male strippers I don't care. It's a party.

Legion:

Baresark:

Legion:

Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.

They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.

Of course it is, everything always is.

The fact that there were dancing women in revealing outfits isn't the issue. The problem is to do with the attitude of the people who hired them. It shows a lack of sensitivity as well as a fair few assumptions.

To be honest, John worded it much better than I can think of, the post I quoted him from sums it up. It's the fact that there has been a lot of issues with perceived sexism in the games industry as of late. Hiring dancers as eye candy for the male guests is not the kind of thing a smart company would do during such times.

I have already said before, I think she and other people have overreacted, but it doesn't make the company any less idiotic for doing what they did.

I'm with you 100%. It was stupid and insensitive. I just think it's a shame we are living in a world that is increasingly more and more sensitive about less and less. I sometimes wonder what the end game is for movements like this. You could just outlaw women wearing skimpy clothes, but that isn't a positive movement for women because it limits there choices. You could outlaw women from dancing, but that doesn't make any sense either. You can't change society though, not with stuff like this. Removing the supply doesn't remove the demand. Society has to want to change.

I'll use the Civil Rights period as an example: People can attribute the civil rights movement to changing society all they want, but it didn't. Society was changed, integration was accepted in the vast majority of areas and it was only a matter of time before it was everywhere. That period changed the archaic and out of date laws regarding integration. But what is this fight over? There are no laws saying women are less. I don't treat women as less than men, I don't know a single person who does, though I'm sure they exist, they cannot be many. It seems to be over changing society and seeks to do this by identifying problems that go back to the beginning of human kind, before there was laws or whole societies. Going back some 120 thousand years ago when man first started to walk upright and became the alpha species on the planet. Ah, I'm obviously taking this way too far in my head... I digress.

Brenda doing her best to promote professionalism for women

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2481379290/u1ewk4aj3u4zcalb5rv0.jpeg

Legion:

Baresark:

Legion:

Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.

They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.

Of course it is, everything always is.

The fact that there were dancing women in revealing outfits isn't the issue. The problem is to do with the attitude of the people who hired them. It shows a lack of sensitivity as well as a fair few assumptions.

To be honest I think we as a society have become oversensitive to a very disturbing extent. In order to have any sort of "fun" at a "party or social event" you now have to be aware of every single person's sensitivity so you do not offend one person. I hope they don't have any color at the party as it might offend colorblind people. They should also stick to elevator music so they could make sure not to offend anyone's taste in music.

These things pretty much ruin the chance for anyone to actually have any fun. I wouldn't doubt that the next couple of industry parties are going to be as dull as dirt because they are afraid to do anything that might offend someone.

Overall articles like this will just reinforce extreme thinking on both sides because people take everything so seriously when it is really just a joke.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here