Microsoft Exec on Always Online Consoles: "Deal With it"

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cjspyres:

Lightknight:

Church185:
That guide that I posted explains it better than I did in my post. The point I was trying to make is that people naturally assume that building a gaming PC costs a fortune, when really they are only hearing about the most expensive rigs.

It's an extremely valid point you made. The difference in cost means the difference between a machine that lasts 5+ years and a machine that just lasts a couple.

This is pretty much what I meant, I just guess its meaning got lost. I've always seen it as more practical to build the expensive tower as it last the longest. You have the ultra graphics for a pretty good time, and then you just ride it out through the next gen on the medium to high. Throw in a couple of updates if you might need, and it just seems cheaper. Like I said, it's just that initial upstart that's hard.

I have a not-so-small steam library, and this always on thing has pushed me to PC gaming, but where I had one £250-£300 360 for a good long while, my friend (who is a PC gamer) has had 2 £650 PCs, each lasting about 4 years, which doesn't look cheap at all to me. Also he is always talking about spending money to upgrade, and I don't like the idea of having to spend money to keep my PC able to efficiently play games.
I guess what I'm asking is, where do I start for a fairly cheap PC option that will last? Nothing too fancy, just so that it can run games on like medium graphics.

Strazdas:

TheSpyIsASpyWDZ:
Well, as someone who couldn't get any faster than dial-up 2 years ago, and whose current internet is a fraction as fast as broadband, I can say that you're hilariously wrong in your generalization of the entire country of the USA. Honestly, if the next XBOX quite literally needs an internet connection to run, then Microsoft are a bunch of brainless twats who didn't deserve my money for their console anyway. I really can't get any faster internet where I live in Beloit, WI. Not all of the United States has the population density of Seattle, and the people simply cannot get a reliable connection.

according to vikipedia your population is 36,966. You should have fiber optics in a town this large by now, i cna understand dialup in a 100 people villages, but such a town should ahve forgotten that long ago. i pity you for having crapy monopolizing consumer abusing ISPs.

Well, the northern end of Beloit has most of the population, I live in the outskirts where no cables dare- Oh you know what? I'll just be frank with you. The ISPs are assholes, and my house is only a mile off a MAIN ROAD. While where I live in the town houses are quite far apart, but not enough to warrant not having cable. But yeah, most of the population is in a different side of my town, basically you have a metropolitan northern area, and a dead as hell southern area. And don't get me started on the city of South Beloit, they make southern Beloit look like New York.

DRM doesnt work, never has. Recently we saw Simcity and Diablo 3 completely fail when people tried to play them. Thing is if its an MMO, then fine. But if im playing a single player offline game then i dont want my game playing enjoyment being ruined due to an unstable internet connection or lack of server space. Plus then you have the chance that the game you bought will be unplayable once they shut down the server to save money. Why should my ability to play an offline game be decided by stupid DRM and server cancellations?

I enjoy gaming but its become a lessor part of my social time these last few years. Especially compared to when i owned an xbox, PS1 and PS2. I think if they made it always online DRM, i will not bother buying a nextbox.

Considering my 360 absolutely refuses to connect to the internet, and has done so for nearly three years now, I would not want to touch this new xbox with a ten foot pole. Plus, its less about the user's internet working, its more about Microsoft's servers. Servers go down for many reasons. They can be permanently shut down. Or something like what happened to PSN a while ago could happen. Imagine if all PS3s and PSPs could no longer be used when that happened.

Strazdas:

airrazor7:

Be fortunate that where ever you live can be technologically progressive but remember that your circumstances isn't the same as everyone else's. Consider this: there are people who still use wood burning stoves to heat their homes. The entirety of this country isn't as technologically progressive as you think.

...That is the tradeoff of living out of city, you cant expect to live outside of city and have city commodities, be available at full speed. games are a luxury item. if you can afford gaming you can afford internet.

So you slightly touch my point but then disagree with me at the same time. huh...

Yes, living outside of cities does mean lack of city "commodities"; I said as much in my previous post. That is part of the problem with a console having a mandatory connection. Some people have internet with poor connection speeds or they don't have it all. It isn't an issue of affordability, it is an issue of lack of options. A great number of people who buy consoles and games do not have constant access to the internet. Don't know who you're debating with on your "luxury item" angle. I never mentioned that nor is it the topic or the point I was making.

Microsoft is a company and as a company, they desire to move as much product as possible. That means, they desire that as many people as possible will buy their product. The always-online feature will decrease the amount of possible people who will buy this product. Attentive shoppers will hear of this and avoid it. Not-so-attentive shoppers will buy it, realize later they cannot use it and thousands will demand a refund. There will be a big fiasco surrounding that and I expect Microsoft's PR department to handle that in the professional manner they always do.

But hey, what's a console launch without issues and a fiasco. Seems par for the course nowadays.

GamerMage:

Desert Punk:

Norrdicus:
Sony CEO Kaz Hirai, what do you have to say about this?

Hello?

You ther-

This website really needs a like button

And that picture he has...that is just so perfect for the statment he made!

How appropriate. Also,what happenned to Vault?

She posted a picture of a crying baby when someone was whining over some silly stuff, and the mods took exception to that and perma banned her.

Well I'm not buying the new x-box. #dealwithit

Well that guy is a wanker.

What is with game/software companies and being wankers lately? :(

So...all Sony has to do to win the next generation in consoles is NOT be always-on, then? Come on, Sony. You can do it. You'll make BILLIONS. You'll make billions over the money Microsoft loses. Make the next Playstation without this feature and focus on battling Nintendo. It will be totally worth it.

Additional: Orthy, you have no perspective. Deal with it!

I would write a detailed post about the new opinions being raised and the fundamental facts surrounding the modern paradigm of electronic entertainment (especially the fact that dedicated/old school games are no longer the core dynamic for a console anymore), but it seems most people will simply ignore it so they can complain about and attempt to justify their own personal stance in relation to the concept of "always on".

So much for a cohesive debate about the pros/cons of the concept.

Forums need a peer review system so those with actual qualification/experience relevant to the field of discussion can be heard and not simply ignored, but that would require some understanding of qualified vs non-qualified opinion and we all know that popularity outweighs sense when it come to the internet and the collective sponge that is the way that common mandate is formed.

Also this because I needed a excuse to post a penny arcade comic and its semi-relevant to the subject at hand.

image

Everyone needs to wake up, you all live in a CAPITALIST SOCIETY and your ultimate form of expressive freedom as a consumer is simply NOT TO BUY THE DAMN THING but dedicated gamers are all pulling their usual level of BS and going to an extreme over it in relation to their opinions instead of simply just deciding not to buy it.

Microsoft is a company who has every right to make a console that is always on and if it tanks well that was there gamble to take as a company and if it does exceedingly well and that pisses you off then tough, that's the market voicing its opinion through sales.

So instead of acting like a bunch of WORLD WAR 2 GERMANS WITH A PENCHANT FOR LEATHER and demanding the ethnic cleansing of anyone who even remotely likes the idea try rationally being part of the debate via looking at its pros and cons and don't buy it when its out if the idea still pisses you off.

Seriously what is wrong with people on these forums in relation to this subject, not only are most people simply denying the fact of the matter they are acting like ill-informed RAHL DAHL CHARACTERS.

Are you all so afraid of the NEXT on the principle that if its succeeds then it will simply be just one more accepted business practice connected to game's that is counter to what you want from the industry as a whole and might become a new standard paradigm to the point that it must be eradicated from existence before its even happened?

Because if any of you answer "yes" to the above question you living in fear of a possibility and i recommend you go start watching Fox News and believing the tripe they broadcast without question if you're that controlled by possible pseudo conniptions of your favorite pastime/hobby.

Also F&*K pre-owned gaming in the ass with big pointy stick AND LONG LIVE THE NEW DIGITAL PARADIGM OF GAMES SOLD AT LAUNCH FOR LESS THEN A PRE-OWNED GAME!

Kael Arawn:
Really? Did you seriously just do that?

Uhhh...calling forumites nazis is bad. You might not want to do that. Like, ever.

What a fucking ignoramus. News flash, asshole: not every device is "always on". Deal with it.

FalloutJack:

Kael Arawn:
Really? Did you seriously just do that?

Uhhh...calling forumites nazis is bad. You might not want to do that. Like, ever.

I just edited it so its less offensive and i already got a mark for making the same post in another tread so ive learned my lesson.

This post from /r/gaming sums it up perfectly for me.

I'm a little late jumping into this, but it's entirely possible the guy was joking. Making an always-on console would be market suicide.

Desert Punk:

Starke:

If it's confirmed through the guy's linkedin profile

Which...he seems to have closed down...

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/adam-orth/44/354/b44

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adam/Orth

Not lookin good for him even with a grain of salt taken

Yeah, the linkedin profile going dark is not a good sign, I'll grant you. And if he does actually get waxed from the company over this, it'll be more than a little unusual.

Also, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, the last couple days have been... unusual.

Starke:

Desert Punk:

Starke:

If it's confirmed through the guy's linkedin profile

Which...he seems to have closed down...

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/adam-orth/44/354/b44

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adam/Orth

Not lookin good for him even with a grain of salt taken

Yeah, the linkedin profile going dark is not a good sign, I'll grant you. And if he does actually get waxed from the company over this, it'll be more than a little unusual.

Also, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, the last couple days have been... unusual.

I dont know, my company has fired some of our lieutenants for public fuck up's far less severe than this, so maybe my boss is just a hardass but this seems normal to me :P

And no worries, I am a patient person...waiting...stalking...er... I hope things are being more normal on your end!

Norrdicus:
Sony CEO Kaz Hirai, what do you have to say about this?

Hello?

You ther-

OUCH! That's gonna burn!

Desert Punk:

Starke:

Desert Punk:

Which...he seems to have closed down...

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/adam-orth/44/354/b44

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adam/Orth

Not lookin good for him even with a grain of salt taken

Yeah, the linkedin profile going dark is not a good sign, I'll grant you. And if he does actually get waxed from the company over this, it'll be more than a little unusual.

Also, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, the last couple days have been... unusual.

I dont know, my company has fired some of our lieutenants for public fuck up's far less severe than this, so maybe my boss is just a hardass but this seems normal to me :P

And no worries, I am a patient person...waiting...stalking...er... I hope things are being more normal on your end!

What is this "normal" you speak of?

And, yeah, your boss is probably a hardass. :p It isn't unusual for people to get terminated in situations like this, but it is substantially more usual for someone in management, or project directors to get dispatched this way. There's a couple reasons:

One is that the peons at the bottom of the food chain are infinitely more replaceable, so depending on how much the company's put into them, it could be far cheaper to just throw them under the bus and find new, rather than deal with whatever they spouted.

Second, managers, as a general rule, are far more integral to their projects. That is to say, their team is, well, theirs, and removing them could potentially cause the team to start hemorrhaging personnel (the Infinity Ward debacle from last year is a good example of this). Additionally, even if the team is still loyal to the parent company, the manager is there to get the best results from the team. Even if the team stays intact, whoever is brought in to replace it will have to learn the dynamics within the team, or, if they're promoted, pick up where their boss left off, with the obvious morale hit of being told they're imminently replaceable.

Third, so, not a couple reasons, there are more people at the bottom of the food chain than at the top, so statistically, it's less likely. There's also the fact that the higher up the corporate food chain you are, the fewer people you answer to, and the lower the chance of having someone like, well, your boss.

For them to have actually fired him, assuming what I've seen about him a senior member of the Durango development team is accurate, it means that they're willing to risk the team coming apart at the seams to get rid of him. So either he's been a major fuckup already, internally, and this was, to mutilate a metaphor beyond recognition, the straw that broke the water's surface... Microsoft is confident that the outrage is against him, not against the apparent system implementation, and didn't want attention drawn to the AODRM. Or he's managed to alienate the team he's running... which isn't really a good situation in it's own right, and doesn't say hopeful things about the eventual console's condition at launch... or ever, for that matter.

Or... I don't know. It's possible his Linkedin account was taken down because of harassing messages. That seems more likely at least to some extent, and kicking him out the door would be something Microsoft has no real interest in covering up... "hey, here's a guy who did a stupid thing, and we got rid of him because we're not with him," or something along those lines.

Kael Arawn:

So instead of acting like a bunch of WORLD WAR 2 GERMANS WITH A PENCHANT FOR LEATHER and demanding the ethnic cleansing of anyone who even remotely likes the idea try rationally being part of the debate via looking at its pros and cons and don't buy it when its out if the idea still pisses you off.

Oh ho ho ho, look, the "I'm saying Nazi without using the exact word" trick.

Say, I never knew that people in favor of always-on DRM (or whatever) were an "ethnicity" to begin with...

Are you all so afraid of the NEXT on the principle that if its succeeds then it will simply be just one more accepted business practice connected to game's that is counter to what you want from the industry as a whole and might become a new standard paradigm to the point that it must be eradicated from existence before its even happened?

Because if any of you answer "yes" to the above question you living in fear of a possibility and i recommend you go start watching Fox News and believing the tripe they broadcast without question if you're that controlled by possible pseudo conniptions of your favorite pastime/hobby.

I'm sorry, what? You're basically insulting, repeatedly, people who are voicing a legitimate concern; you refuse to try and see where they're coming from, instead you belittle them and treat them with not a shred of basic human dignity.

All you're accomplishing is coming across as a highly unpleasant person and shooting your own case down from orbit while you're at it.

Kael Arawn:
[
I just edited it so its less offensive and i already got a mark for making the same post in another tread so ive learned my lesson.

It's no "less offensive", really. Sure you didn't use that one specific word, but your post is not a spiff less offensive than it was when it was still in there.

I...I just realized something. I-Is this all a scheme from microsoft to turn gamers into PC gamers, thus making them buy windows, thus giving them MORE money? After all, most people who will be turned off by this are players who aren't Xbox fanboys, or don't much care about console exclusives, so probably only have a passing interest in this. This makes them go to the PC, where Windows holds sway...
>>
Or am I just THAT MUCH smarter than their marketing department.

The mobile phone reception in the area I live in is spotty and unreliable. I will not buy a mobile phone.

Yeah ... more like "I will not buy a mobile phone that requires reception to use features that don't actually need it". Because even if your reception is crystal clear all the time, that's still a terrible idea.

The idea is to try and minimize the dependency on the unstable resource. Creating an artificial dependency, then, is a really bad move, especially when none of your competitors do the same.

GamerMage:

Desert Punk:

Norrdicus:
Sony CEO Kaz Hirai, what do you have to say about this?

Hello?

You ther-

This website really needs a like button

And that picture he has...that is just so perfect for the statment he made!

How appropriate. Also,what happenned to Vault?

Wait, you don't know what happened to Vault?

He/she posted a image of a crying baby in response to a thread and got banned for it.

Not even going to touch the next Xbox system if this turns out to be true. I'm a PlayStation fan so I didn't have much interest in the next Xbox to begin with but this is just downright stupid, please MS don't do this. I want the Xbox to still be around and competing because more competition is always good for the industry. And that CEO guy is an asshole.

But wow I have never seen so much bad press about a product before in my life, especially before it's even out. I don't understand why MS just won't come out and say these rumors are all false if they arn't true, I know they are seeing the public backlash this is getting and it's only going to hurt them.

All we can do now is wait until E3 and hope for the best. If true then goodbye 720, hello PS4. Deal with THAT Microsoft!

Kael Arawn:
We're not using the Zed Ned word.

Vegosiux:
And ordinary snip.

He's right. That's still a really offensive thing to say to people, and it's wrong.

Put simply, the gaming industry was not always like this. It wasn't the kind of competition that survives by shitting on others. Not us and not the other companies. It use to be about...just selling the product. You build it up, you talk about it, the consumer chooses, you learn from success or failure, and then you repeat. These days, steps one and two are handled poorly so as to trick people into believing the product is gold when it may be non-functional, thereby manipulating step three without any shame at all, even though it's bad business and sometimes QUITE illegal. Furthermore, it's very very VERY frigging clear that nobody follows step four at all, the learning curve.

Business use to be about business: Product, Market, Profit, and no screwing around. Honesty is a thing they don't really care about much now, so you have to ram it in their faces to stop that sneaky shit by any means at your disposal. And don't frigging tell me to 'deal with it', like I should take a paddling like a good boy when I've done no wrong. I'm not even among the victimized, but I have the capacity for a little sympathy. And so, if I don't like the product, I will not touch it. And if I want to shout about it, I will shout. And if I want to tell others what I think and why, then I will. It's down to them to believe or disbelieve. Your problem is that they believe.

You don't want people up in arms about something, when they certainly have the right if they want to. If peoplle don't like what they hear on the internet, there's no rule that says they can't say so in a manner of their own choosing. Granted, there are forum rules regarding behavior, but then I didn't invoke Godwin's Law.

Desert Punk:

GamerMage:

Desert Punk:

This website really needs a like button

And that picture he has...that is just so perfect for the statment he made!

How appropriate. Also,what happenned to Vault?

She posted a picture of a crying baby when someone was whining over some silly stuff, and the mods took exception to that and perma banned her.

What was the thread?

I was actually considering getting the next xbox since Microsoft entices developers to shit on PS3 users with downgraded (graphically)game ports and delayed DLC. However if they truly think always online is the way to go then I wish them all the luck in the world while I play on my PS4.

Microsoft's policy has always been an aggressive marketing campaign to get users to buy more Macs and Sony Playstations (-1, -2,-3, and now -4) . This is all part of that.

Why are you all surprised?

Phones need phone signal to work. Vacuum cleaners need power to work. Video games do NOT need the internet to work, and though it's a nice addition, there's no actual advantage to forcing players to use it when they needn't.

Seems like he will have to...

*put on sunglasses*

Deal with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

TheSpyIsASpyWDZ:

Strazdas:

TheSpyIsASpyWDZ:
Well, as someone who couldn't get any faster than dial-up 2 years ago, and whose current internet is a fraction as fast as broadband, I can say that you're hilariously wrong in your generalization of the entire country of the USA. Honestly, if the next XBOX quite literally needs an internet connection to run, then Microsoft are a bunch of brainless twats who didn't deserve my money for their console anyway. I really can't get any faster internet where I live in Beloit, WI. Not all of the United States has the population density of Seattle, and the people simply cannot get a reliable connection.

according to vikipedia your population is 36,966. You should have fiber optics in a town this large by now, i cna understand dialup in a 100 people villages, but such a town should ahve forgotten that long ago. i pity you for having crapy monopolizing consumer abusing ISPs.

Well, the northern end of Beloit has most of the population, I live in the outskirts where no cables dare- Oh you know what? I'll just be frank with you. The ISPs are assholes, and my house is only a mile off a MAIN ROAD. While where I live in the town houses are quite far apart, but not enough to warrant not having cable. But yeah, most of the population is in a different side of my town, basically you have a metropolitan northern area, and a dead as hell southern area. And don't get me started on the city of South Beloit, they make southern Beloit look like New York.

Really? Fucking Beloit is a wasteland of internet access? You're about an hour and a half from Madison and Chicago and you can't get better than a fraction of broadband? I live up in Marquette, a town of 20,000 an hour away from the nearest town of 10,000, and I can get a connection of 300Mbps. My fucking grandparents live outside of a town with two streets on a goddamn island and they've got a better internet connection than you. The Upper Peninsula of Michigan is one of the most sparsely populated sections east of the Mississipi, and you're telling me we can get a better internet connection than southern Wisconsin?

XandNobody:
Sometimes, I miss the middle ages.

You guys knew how to light an asshole on fire back then.

Guys like you make reading through the forums a funny affair.

Microsoft: the very fact that you're even considering making a console require an internet connection has instantly destroyed any hope of my ever buying one.
DEAL WITH IT.

Sorry for late responses, i was banned for "Calling a poster a troll".

cjspyres:

Strazdas:
HOw many games you buy? if the answer is more than 1 per month, pc gaming is cheaper. what you spekd on superior hardware, you will easily make up for in game prices.
And if the console specs are going to be the way they seem to be going, you wont need 800 dollars to match it for PC specs.

Um, that still doesn't change the fact that some people can't afford the investment of powerful PC like that. And if were talking about people not being able to afford something, then shouldn't it pretty much be obvious that they aren't buying multiple games a month? I mean, I own a PC, but I can't even afford to buy more than one game a month. Hell, I can barely afford that. I have to borrow games from friends.

So you mostly borrow games and paly them on a console that makes a loss at a sellpoint. this means that you and people liek you are a loss to microsoft and from a business standpoint should be gotten ridden of. instead they will cater to thier target audience, people who buy games that make up for console hardware cheap price loss. in toher words, you arent the target audience, of course they are not going to cater to you. If they wanted to sell the console at profit, PC would not look like an expensive investment.

mb16:

'Le fek, the internet is down; oh-well I can still play single player on my xbox... oh wait'

Le fe, the internet is downl oh-well i guess its time to finally do something about it.

In Search of Username:
Phones need phone signal to work. Vacuum cleaners need power to work. Video games do NOT need the internet to work, and though it's a nice addition, there's no actual advantage to forcing players to use it when they needn't.

some do. in fact, many do.

Doomsdaylee:
I...I just realized something. I-Is this all a scheme from microsoft to turn gamers into PC gamers, thus making them buy windows, thus giving them MORE money? After all, most people who will be turned off by this are players who aren't Xbox fanboys, or don't much care about console exclusives, so probably only have a passing interest in this. This makes them go to the PC, where Windows holds sway...
>>
Or am I just THAT MUCH smarter than their marketing department.

More like Phone gaming. Because windows 8 is anything but gamer friendly.

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