California Senator Wants Fewer Guns in Games

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This is what even those of you who (for whatever reason) support Feinsteins war on our second amendment need to understand. Her and her ilk are strictly about control. We're kicking her ass on guns, so now she's moving to try to get a hold of something else.

I support freedom of expression as well as freedom to bear arms. I'll fight this anti-video game concept as vigorously as anything else.

Funny story, Sandy Hook had NOTHING TO DO WITH VIDEOGAMES.

He wasn't known for playing violent games, that was just the media struggling to find a connection. And you know what connection they made a huge reach to claim? He liked violent games because his brother Liked Mass Effect on Facebook.

RatherDull:

I don't think it is the gun obsession at all.

I'm not in favor of the "Govment dun take our guns hurr durr" bit everyone in my state is spewing, but the reason these shootings keep happening is far more complex than anyone seems to realize.

If I had to point at one thing and say 'That is the reason," personally put the focus on mental health and depression. After all, there is a proven link between depression and shootings.

But state of mental health in the eyes of the public is in such a poor state. People just ignore it or assume it doesn't exist and that it's all made up. But depression is a real thing and it is not the victim's fault.

While mental health is very much a big issue, I'd have to agree with FEichinger regarding the cultural side that the US has towards guns. While I know that the ease of getting them from state to state varies, for the most part guns are generally seen as a symbol of independence and security. Most people in the US (I repeat most, not all), support gun ownership due to the cultural significance guns have in the US has after the war of independence and civil war having engraved it into the nation. That's also why gun restrictions have a hard time to pass if they even pass at all.

There's a reason people from outside the US keep pointing at the obsession of guns your nation has, and the fact it's one of the most violent western nation on earth. Theres a reason action movies with guns and explosions are so common and popular and why the first person shooter started in the states, they are the result of the type of country their born out of.

I've visited the US, I went to FL, Washington DC and Vermont, so I'm not just saying this as an outsider who is judging something he/she hasn't seen. One thing that struck me was how different each state is, it's like going to different countries in some ways. I loved my time there and will be visiting again, but there was also something about the place that was just odd. Love of guns aside the country is a strange place, I've been to Japan and felt more at home than in the states. In a lot of ways the USA is in dire need of modernising, both physically and culturally.

Smiley Face:

thethird0611:
I just want to put this out here man, but Criminologist actually dont see an increase access of guns as a direct link to violence. They see a correlation between the two, but it isnt a direct link between the two.

Trust men, I seriously just learned about it this week from a Criminology course from a Criminology professor over that -exact- topic.

Is that on the individual level or the national level? Because the omnipresence of guns in America has a greater statistical effect than "access to guns". For instance, the cultural obsession/glorification of firearms changes the likelihood of their use, and the nature of said use, not to mention that while there may be no direct link between access to firearms and the rate of violent crime, I'm willing to bet there's a direct link between access to firearms and the rate of violent crimes which result in the death of the victim.

Well, when you start to use the words obsession and glorification of guns in your analysis of the human psyche on the use of guns, your already in bias territory. Believe me, im a Psych major myself, almost out of college with a social/behavioral leaning, and the U.S. gun ideal is not obsession or glorification, it is far from it. The only reason people are loud right now about keeping guns, is because they have people on the liberal side trying to shout them down.

Again, Criminologist, the people who study this stuff for a living, have agreed that there is no direct link between firearms and violent crimes. They do agree that with an increase of firearms, they see an increase of violent crime, but no from the cause.

Let me quote straight from the text.

"Although firearm availability alone does not cause violence, it may be a facilitating factor."
So in laymens terms, guns do not cause violence, the presence of them will make someone who wants to hurt another person take action easier.

Entitled:

RatherDull:

I don't think it is the gun obsession at all.

I'm not in favor of the "Govment dun take our guns hurr durr" bit everyone in my state is spewing, but the reason these shootings keep happening is far more complex than anyone seems to realize.

If I had to point at one thing and say 'That is the reason," personally put the focus on mental health and depression. After all, there is a proven link between depression and shootings.

But state of mental health in the eyes of the public is in such a poor state. People just ignore it or assume it doesn't exist and that it's all made up. But depression is a real thing and it is not the victim's fault.

There is also a proven link between access to guns and violence.

As a matter of fact, there is even a proven link between access to guns and SUICIDE: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/

Simply by being there, guns can influence what we think and what we do.

Even though OBVIOUSLY deppression is what causes suicides, just because a certain concept is a "cause", it would be a sing-cause fallacy to assume that others CAN'T be causes.

1. You don't "Prove" anything in a scientific sense, you only have "theories that have yet to be refuted".

2. Here is a study, which is ALSO from Harvard that states the complete opposite: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

HanFyren:
While her suggestion is ridiculous. I do wish some game developers would scale back the focus on guns a bit.
Tomb Raider for instance would in my opinion be an even better game if it wasn't so war focused.

Indeed. The series has never even needed combat, yet their idea of making her a 'survivor' is setting her against several hundred armed men.

Desert Punk:
Oh I know, we dont we send her to the UK like the UK sent us that Pierce Morgan fellow? I think she would be really happy over there, and she can annoy the shit out of them with her stupid ideas.

Excellent idea! I think that's a fair trade, but I'll do you one better. How about we send her to North Korea instead. They have way too many guns over there, and I think she would be right at home trying to get them to get rid of them. If she succeeds, North Korea can't wage war with anyone, and we all get to live peacefully and happily. If she fails, well they'll just have to deal with her nagging until they nuke themselves.

Everybody wins!

RicoADF:
I've visited the US, I went to FL, Washington DC and Vermont, so I'm not just saying this as an outsider who is judging something he/she hasn't seen. One thing that struck me was how different each state is, it's like going to different countries in some ways. I loved my time there and will be visiting again, but there was also something about the place that was just odd. Love of guns aside the country is a strange place, I've been to Japan and felt more at home than in the states. In a lot of ways the USA is in dire need of modernising, both physically and culturally.

I would recommend the midwest next time you visit. Those particular states you mentioned, with the exception of Florida (in some cases anyway) aren't as firearm friendly. Here in the midwest, shooting and hunting are a way of life for many. Farmers, ranchers, recreational shooters, and hunters are everywhere and nearly everyone you meet that legally can, owns a firearm of some kind. To use the word, "Obsession," is going too far. "Passion," would be a better word. Many people here grew up shooting, and they became fond over it throughout the course of their lifetimes. That is why so many people in a good many regions of the U.S. oppose strict gun control. Shooting isn't something that many Americans just go do now and again. It is something that many of us have done our whole lives, and a good many have a vested interest in continuing to do so.

Seriously, if I could afford to put some of the people on these forums on a plane and bring them here to see what it is really like, I would. It's nowhere near as bad as people think it is. Heck, I had a customer walk into my store about two weeks ago carrying a Sig .45 in a shoulder holster, displayed openly for the world to see. The only person that batted an eyelash was my manager, and she got needlessly frustrated over the whole thing. The guy walked in, got his things, and left. Nobody was hurt, and nobody was afraid for their life. Firearms are common place here, and most that have them aren't out to hurt anyone. It's just part of our culture, and as you pointed out, it is due to a variety of reasons. There's not much more to it than that.

I am indifferent to having less guns in games, as long as it can deliver a solid narrative and cathartic gameplay I don't need guns.

FEichinger:
Dear, America ...

your obsession with guns has caused this. You allow children to touch real guns, teach them how to shoot them and glorify it with your insane defense of the 2nd Ammendment.

Fake guns are not the problem. They are a safe way to live your gun obsession, without harming anyone. This does not teach anyone how to shoot a real gun. It does not make them violent sociopaths. It does not give them access to guns. It is just fiction.

If you want to reduce gun violence, don't do it by removing a harmless alternative. Think about why people get guns to begin with. Think about what causes people to be paranoid enough to want guns to begin with. I can tell you, it's not arcade boxes and video games.

It's a state full of idiots. A state with legislators focused on personal gain. A state with a justice system that is flawed from start to finish. A state that refuses to act in favor of its population in fear of "socialism" and "oppression". It's a state full of parents who act without thinking and hand their children items they should not have at all.

I don't disagree that you have taken far too long to fix this. It may well be impossible now. But don't stomp your feet like a child and pretend there is something else that is responsible, other than your own faults.

Best Regards,
Europe.

Dear Europe,

Since when do we give a shit what you think?

Best Regards,
America

OT: This is Feinstein, people. She's leading the assault weapons ban crusade. I use a real assault rifle on a daily basis and I can tell you, what she and other politicians think an assault rifle is are just components. They don't have automatic fire.

To add, I personally think there are too many gun games but not because of her reasons. They just suck and are the same crap over and over. (Except Defiance, that's the first shooter I've bought in years and it's fun)

I want less cunts like this breathing my air.

Compare "very negative role" to "harmless outlet" in regards to works of fiction.

HanFyren:
While her suggestion is ridiculous. I do wish some game developers would scale back the focus on guns a bit.
Tomb Raider for instance would in my opinion be an even better game if it wasn't so war focused.

its interesting that even gamers are getting to the point of saying can we have less shooty bits as they get in the way of narrative, etc

If it wasn't clearly just targeting Video Games (ie, if her "solution" also encompassed laws regarding actual guns that actually kill actual people) it wouldn't be so inflammatory.

Singularly Datarific:

canadamus_prime:
But we don't want fewer real guns in the hands of people now do we?

Yes she does. She was the author of the recently proposed Assault Weapons Ban.

So I've been told. Thank you. I just hope a billion other people don't also feel obligated to tell me that. ...as usual.

tsb247:

I would recommend the midwest next time you visit. Those particular states you mentioned, with the exception of Florida (in some cases anyway) aren't as firearm friendly. Here in the midwest, shooting and hunting are a way of life for many. Farmers, ranchers, recreational shooters, and hunters are everywhere and nearly everyone you meet that legally can, owns a firearm of some kind. To use the word, "Obsession," is going too far. "Passion," would be a better word. Many people here grew up shooting, and they became fond over it throughout the course of their lifetimes. That is why so many people in a good many regions of the U.S. oppose strict gun control. Shooting isn't something that many Americans just go do now and again. It is something that many of us have done our whole lives, and a good many have a vested interest in continuing to do so.

Seriously, if I could afford to put some of the people on these forums on a plane and bring them here to see what it is really like, I would. It's nowhere near as bad as people think it is. Heck, I had a customer walk into my store about two weeks ago carrying a Sig .45 in a shoulder holster, displayed openly for the world to see. The only person that batted an eyelash was my manager, and she got needlessly frustrated over the whole thing. The guy walked in, got his things, and left. Nobody was hurt, and nobody was afraid for their life. Firearms are common place here, and most that have them aren't out to hurt anyone. It's just part of our culture, and as you pointed out, it is due to a variety of reasons. There's not much more to it than that.

Farmlands I understand why they'd need them, they need to protect their crops from wild animals etc. In cities it's less so. To be clear I have no issue with people going hunting, or to a shooting range. Legitimate reasons are fine, it's the "I want to have a gun to shoot any trespassers in my unit or house in the city" that I find are faulty reasons personally and consider it causes more problems than they solve. It's not guns I have issues with, its how some people use them. I do look forward to visiting again, heck plan to go to texas so I will see what your refering to first hand. What state are you in? When I come around I'd be happy to swing by and you can show me first hand :-)

Maybe it is worth noting that that particular senator is on the forefront of regulating real guns as well. Her gun bill just got watered down in the senate because it was too far reaching for senate republicans.

frobalt:
If this doesn't prove just how backwards American politics is, nothing can.

A country should NOT be run by corporations. Biggest reason gun control is so hard to do is because gun manufacturers are leaning so hard on senators. So much that they think they can use video games as scapegoats. Capitalism FTW(!)

Actually no. There's a lot more to the gun control issue than just gun manufacturers buying off congressmen.

A majority (or at the very least, a very significant minority) of Americans do actually oppose gun control, for a variety of reasons, ranging from "fuck the gub'ment" to "you can pry it from my cold, dead hands!" and everything in between.

On top of that, there's people in government who think gun control legislation would end up like another war on drugs (read: a multi-billion dollar a year effort with little-to-no appreciable impact on the supply of the good in question) and don't want to pay for it.

There's also the social climate in America where anything that looks like an increase in federal power is met with grudging acceptance at best and outright suspicion and hostility at worst. This attitude makes it very, very hard for the federal government to enact such large changes throughout the populace.

Whether or not stronger gun control is the solution, the feds aren't going to be able to do much about it for at least another generation. Probably more.

thethird0611:
Well, when you start to use the words obsession and glorification of guns in your analysis of the human psyche on the use of guns, your already in bias territory. Believe me, im a Psych major myself, almost out of college with a social/behavioral leaning, and the U.S. gun ideal is not obsession or glorification, it is far from it. The only reason people are loud right now about keeping guns, is because they have people on the liberal side trying to shout them down.

Again, Criminologist, the people who study this stuff for a living, have agreed that there is no direct link between firearms and violent crimes. They do agree that with an increase of firearms, they see an increase of violent crime, but no from the cause.

Let me quote straight from the text.

"Although firearm availability alone does not cause violence, it may be a facilitating factor."
So in laymens terms, guns do not cause violence, the presence of them will make someone who wants to hurt another person take action easier.

I wasn't referring to the U.S. as a whole, just the subset of society that does demonstrate behaviour which, to someone outside the U.S., seems indicative of glorification/obsession. And as to your quotation, that's what I was trying to get at with the latter half of my previous post, so... hooray, everyone's on the same page. I think.

RoonMian:
Maybe it is worth noting that that particular senator is on the forefront of regulating real guns as well. Her gun bill just got watered down in the senate because it was too far reaching for senate republicans.

It got watered down because she was proven to be fraud. No research ever supported her bill and everyone with any sort of knowledge on gun violence said it was a feel good placebo.

Her bill only effected the look of guns, not the caliber or anything. Which made it absolutely useless and at best an ego boost for her image.

Which is all she cares about, and even people in her own state hate her. Congress figured that out, and killed her useless bill.

Virtual guns? BAN THEM ALL.

Real guns? EVERYONE MUST HAVE ONE.

Good logic America.

FEichinger:
Dear, America ...

your obsession with guns has caused this. You allow children to touch real guns, teach them how to shoot them and glorify it with your insane defense of the 2nd Ammendment.

Fake guns are not the problem. They are a safe way to live your gun obsession, without harming anyone. This does not teach anyone how to shoot a real gun. It does not make them violent sociopaths. It does not give them access to guns. It is just fiction.

If you want to reduce gun violence, don't do it by removing a harmless alternative. Think about why people get guns to begin with. Think about what causes people to be paranoid enough to want guns to begin with. I can tell you, it's not arcade boxes and video games.

It's a state full of idiots. A state with legislators focused on personal gain. A state with a justice system that is flawed from start to finish. A state that refuses to act in favor of its population in fear of "socialism" and "oppression". It's a state full of parents who act without thinking and hand their children items they should not have at all.

I don't disagree that you have taken far too long to fix this. It may well be impossible now. But don't stomp your feet like a child and pretend there is something else that is responsible, other than your own faults.

Best Regards,
Europe.

Keep your European ideas on your side of the Atlantic. My ancestors hated your ancestors so much they risked everything to cut ties with them. The most recent was my grandfather decided to leave the Utopia you Europeans to create and the utopia soaked your continent in blood.

" I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get plied upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe."

Thomas Jefferson

She fought a good fight against SOPA but yeah, this is pretty stupid.

How about focus on fixing up the economy instead? I'm pretty sick of budget cuts at my school.

So.. I had to wait for about a minute to reply to this because that's how long I spent laughing uncontrollably.

Senator, you want less guns in games and I want less shitty reality television invading my favorite channels. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, which do you think is gonna fill up first?

There are plenty of video games (granted not a majority) that do not have guns in them. If you want there to be less guns in game, why don't 'you' try and design a game to push non-gun related combat? I mean, if you want them to go away then please, breath some fresh ideas into the industry. Cause you know, it's the GUN'S fault and VIDEO GAMES that make the back things happen, not the person pulling the trigger.

Just... shut the fuck up and mind you own god damn business instead of trying to turn your opinion into more than that, your opinion.

It would be interesting if guns were banned in games for a couple of years. We may just get some original ideas again.

Go Dianne!

Hmm, does other people having guns count? Because I've slaughtered New Vegas a couple times with nothing but an axe and a lot of drugs, but people kept shooting at me for some reason while I did it.

aelreth:

FEichinger:
Dear, America ...

your obsession with guns has caused this. You allow children to touch real guns, teach them how to shoot them and glorify it with your insane defense of the 2nd Ammendment.

Fake guns are not the problem. They are a safe way to live your gun obsession, without harming anyone. This does not teach anyone how to shoot a real gun. It does not make them violent sociopaths. It does not give them access to guns. It is just fiction.

If you want to reduce gun violence, don't do it by removing a harmless alternative. Think about why people get guns to begin with. Think about what causes people to be paranoid enough to want guns to begin with. I can tell you, it's not arcade boxes and video games.

It's a state full of idiots. A state with legislators focused on personal gain. A state with a justice system that is flawed from start to finish. A state that refuses to act in favor of its population in fear of "socialism" and "oppression". It's a state full of parents who act without thinking and hand their children items they should not have at all.

I don't disagree that you have taken far too long to fix this. It may well be impossible now. But don't stomp your feet like a child and pretend there is something else that is responsible, other than your own faults.

Best Regards,
Europe.

Keep your European ideas on your side of the Atlantic. My ancestors hated your ancestors so much they risked everything to cut ties with them. The most recent was my grandfather decided to leave the Utopia you Europeans to create and the utopia soaked your continent in blood.

" I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get plied upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe."

Thomas Jefferson

Seeing how the US can't manage to keep its politics out of the rest of the world, this is something I genuinely couldn't care less about.

KingsGambit:
Maybe take actual guns away from teenagers, rather than virtual ones. I'm fairly sure digital bullets aren't nearly so dangerous as their physical counterparts.

I have an idea. Maybe just keep the guns in the games and just charge for the digital bullets. ..Oh wait nevermind :/

FEichinger:

Seeing how the US can't manage to keep its politics out of the rest of the world, this is something I genuinely couldn't care less about.

On that we agree.

As for the 2nd amendment that was settled in 1791.

So she wants GAME to regulate guns, but not gun sellers & collectors?

Next she'll want to regulate swords & arrows & we'll have to beat the shit out of eachother with shrapnel stuffed socks & dads will get 25 year prison sentences for playing Duck Hunt with their daughters.

Guess what? These same games are sold in other countries to, but it's our kids shooting up schools. People just don't want to admit it's American culture that's at fault, and not the evil 1s and 0s. Take some responsibility for not raising your kids right, if your kid shoots up a school chances are you did something terribly wrong as a parent, even if that thing was just not recognizing your kid was nuts and getting them the help they needed early in life.
I believe that was a popular topic with a recent shooting, the fact that everyone knew the guy was crazy beforehand and no one did anything to get him help.

You elected her, California. Miss Arnold yet? Also...

xPixelatedx:
Guess what? These same games are sold in other countries to, but it's our kids shooting up schools. People just don't want to admit it's American culture that's at fault, and not the evil 1s and 0s.

That is correct, take a bow, sir, and please go through the double-doors to receive your free internets!

In Yahtzee's own words: "What I find comforting is that they are old, and old people will die first. We're the ones who get to pass on our values next generation. Old people have always opposed what's new and scary because it reminds them they're losing control of the world."

Amen.

Some psycho shoots up a school and people want to blame something. Crazy people are irrational and theres nothing you can do to stop a irrational person. Take away guns they'll stab people, take away knifes they'll beat people with blunt objects and ect ect. Some people are terrible. why are they? I don't know but I know its not because of pixels or objects.

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