Torment Breaks Kickstarter Record

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Legion:
It beat my estimated total by $1.2 million, I am impressed at how well it did, as well as pleased.

I have never been that into fantasy as a genre, but this does look interesting, so I am glad I backed it. Although it does feel strange effectively pre-ordering a game over two years before it's release.

I thought the same thing about pre ordering it two years in advance, but I decided screw it, I trust inXile to deliver, and I got the 30 reward that got me Wasteland 2 as well. Bring on the RPGs :D

I was going to buy it anyway so I treat it as a pre-order.

Well it surpassed my 3million prediction so I'm happy to hear that. Chris Avellone joining the team was the best news I've heard this week.

I have high hopes that this game will do well, no doubt about it.

This is a good day for RPGs I've back this any many others on kickstarter and hope this evidence goes on to prove the corperations like EA are a dying breed of greedy fools who miss what making many wonderful smaller games achieves over big gun games(which i like as in Battlefeild but don't make stupidly large numbers of them e.g MOH) are the only way to make cash and please the masses.

Blizzard making Hearthstone is what pleases me in a way as its something small and intresting in the same vein, i may not be blown away by it but it bodes well for creative thinking with them at least.

Delcast:

lacktheknack:

Delcast:
I personally have seen a few great projects that have barely made it or failed... currently I'm very sad about Pulse, because I know the team is capable of delivering a great game... but it seems actually original ideas don't sell.

The top three most-funded-game-projects are an Android-based console, an RPG that's not actually a sequel and is in fact set in a different world from the first game entirely, and a completely original RPG. They got (rounded) $8 million, $4 million and $4 million respectively.

Those original ideas sure seemed to sell well.

lol I love that you had to explain in such depth to prove that it was "not really a sequel, just using a famous name"....
and yeah.. project eternity.. all original... didn't sell it as an old school rpg at all...all the art even looks like Baldur's Gate......
Look I'm not trying to tell you not to be happy about this, just to look out for the situation that very well could be happening. Keeping a leveled head. Even if you don't like them you should be able to see that there is at least a hint of truth in my observations.

I didn't have to... I could have accurately just said "a spiritual successor", which just doesn't get the same point across. Since I wanted to get the point across, I typed more. (Bonus typing: "Planescape: Torment" is to "Tides of Numenara" as "System Shock 2" is to "Bioshock". Bioshock is still an original property.)

And no, I don't see the truth. You ACTUALLY said "original ideas don't sell", which I proved to be false. You can't say that Project Eternity isn't original just because Baldur's Gate is the same genre and style. That's like saying "Dungeons and Dragons is not original content, because Lord of the Rings exists".

At any rate, what we can learn is that CRPG players have been feeling very unloved. It's not so much that "unoriginal ideas don't sell" as much as "there's a humongous fanbase just WAITING for this day". If you want more completely original properties to do well on Kickstarter (as in, completely original down to the genre), find one that has a good pitch, good rewards and attainable goals (the trifecta of perfection that inXile's attempts have all had) and advertise it.

I'm not ignoring these projects because I don't like their ideas, I'm ignoring them because I don't know they exist.

lacktheknack:

Delcast:

lacktheknack:

The top three most-funded-game-projects are an Android-based console, an RPG that's not actually a sequel and is in fact set in a different world from the first game entirely, and a completely original RPG. They got (rounded) $8 million, $4 million and $4 million respectively.

Those original ideas sure seemed to sell well.

lol I love that you had to explain in such depth to prove that it was "not really a sequel, just using a famous name"....
and yeah.. project eternity.. all original... didn't sell it as an old school rpg at all...all the art even looks like Baldur's Gate......
Look I'm not trying to tell you not to be happy about this, just to look out for the situation that very well could be happening. Keeping a leveled head. Even if you don't like them you should be able to see that there is at least a hint of truth in my observations.

I didn't have to... I could have accurately just said "a spiritual successor", which just doesn't get the same point across. Since I wanted to get the point across, I typed more. (Bonus typing: "Planescape: Torment" is to "Tides of Numenara" as "System Shock 2" is to "Bioshock". Bioshock is still an original property.)

And no, I don't see the truth. You ACTUALLY said "original ideas don't sell", which I proved to be false. You can't say that Project Eternity isn't original just because Baldur's Gate is the same genre and style. That's like saying "Dungeons and Dragons is not original content, because Lord of the Rings exists".

At any rate, what we can learn is that CRPG players have been feeling very unloved. It's not so much that "unoriginal ideas don't sell" as much as "there's a humongous fanbase just WAITING for this day". If you want more completely original properties to do well on Kickstarter (as in, completely original down to the genre), find one that has a good pitch, good rewards and attainable goals (the trifecta of perfection that inXile's attempts have all had) and advertise it.

I'm not ignoring these projects because I don't like their ideas, I'm ignoring them because I don't know they exist.

What?! I never really said original ideas didn't sell! What the hell? Did you read the whole post? It was a comment on the fact that some very original ideas in kickstarter with a lot to show have not succeeded.. NOT a belief, but an observation of the weird behaviour of the audience.
I said that its odd that people complain a lot against samey generic games in AAA, but seem to be wanting reboots, revivals and less variation in the independent funding platforms. Get it? The irony?

We all say we want new and exciting, but at the end of the day, people seem to get excited over really familiar things, and thus we get 10 slenderman clones and remakes and 20 minecraft wannabes, and a ceaseless stream of huge revivals of older school games.

If you don't want to see that these projects are pulling nostalgia cards all over the place, then I suppose there is no point even discussing with such lack of objectivity. Of course original ideas can exist in any genre, but its different when you publicize them as "what was great about our old games that publishers don't appreciate anymore"...

You really want proven and visible in your kickstarter? honestly? Don't you see how that will modify the ecosystem of the platform?

You see, when you use your existing prestige and fame to publicize your project in a fully democratic medium for startup projects, it becomes a profoundly unfair playing field. Of course this doesn't disable smaller projects directly, but it still responds to supply and demand. Tough luck for the small ones, I guess its always the case but it's also a bit sad, because as you said.. you just DONT KNOW of these projects.
The thing is that they don't have a way to reach massive media outputs to display their efforts.
Project Eternity and Torment have been in practically -all- mainstream media sites. And a smaller developer, no matter how good, won't be able to get there simply because as people have said they are "not proven".
Part of the whole principle of this platform is enabling possibly unproven but talented teams to fund projects that you wouldn't know existed in any other way, and unavoidably this dynamic breaks the balance and casts a shadow on the smaller worthy endeavors.

lacktheknack:

Delcast:
I personally have seen a few great projects that have barely made it or failed... currently I'm very sad about Pulse, because I know the team is capable of delivering a great game... but it seems actually original ideas don't sell.

The top three most-funded-game-projects are an Android-based console, an RPG that's not actually a sequel and is in fact set in a different world from the first game entirely, and a completely original RPG. They got (rounded) $8 million, $4 million and $4 million respectively.

Those original ideas sure seemed to sell well.

Lets be honest here Torment sold itself entirely by plying on the nostalgia people have for PST and not on its own merits. You are right though original ideas can sell on kickstarter. Its just they need to distract people from what they are actually making and rely on a really famous developer or other game.

Well, the other problem Kickstarter games have to deal with is the Game Engine crunch. One of the issues with the AAA made games these days is that they are all using a licensed engine that limits the visual style, sounds, and other aspects. How many games this generation have used Unreal Engine 3 or the Crytek engine for example?

Then there is the other extreme with Japan, where companies like Square Enix build a new engine for every game they make and toss the old one out. The result is fairly easy to see given the limited scope of Final Fantasy XIII and the disaster that was the launch of Final Fantasy XIV: Extended development cycles and fewer hours actually put into building the real game.

Thankfully, most of the games on Kickstarter are using simpler game engines or are using a less commonly deployed game engine.

Thing about Kickstarter projects are that if they suck then its tough. They could be complete shit. Yes there heart is in the right place, they have the passion and the will to make something awesome. But the talent? The skill? Its difficult. Thing with big companies is that they have business plans. They consider the games and whether they are worth making, will they make a profit? Unfortunately alot of the kickstarter games will make zero profit an isnt that the point? To get payment to make the sequel? It will fail, i bet all kickstarter projects will fail to make a profit or a future for the people involved. Its a shame but making what you want doesnt mean anything. Doesnt make it successful or make you money regardless of kick starter. You need marketing and promoting to make it sell. For now, it seems people are making things for the sake of making them. An thats why you need big companies behind your creation. You need that clout and money etc Its different from the C64 days when you could make a game in your bedroom.

SonOfVoorhees:
Thing about Kickstarter projects are that if they suck then its tough. They could be complete shit. Yes there heart is in the right place, they have the passion and the will to make something awesome. But the talent? The skill? Its difficult. Thing with big companies is that they have business plans. They consider the games and whether they are worth making, will they make a profit? Unfortunately alot of the kickstarter games will make zero profit an isnt that the point? To get payment to make the sequel? It will fail, i bet all kickstarter projects will fail to make a profit or a future for the people involved. Its a shame but making what you want doesnt mean anything. Doesnt make it successful or make you money regardless of kick starter. You need marketing and promoting to make it sell. For now, it seems people are making things for the sake of making them. An thats why you need big companies behind your creation. You need that clout and money etc Its different from the C64 days when you could make a game in your bedroom.

The FTL developers have said that they made enough money to self-fund their next project. Legend of Grimrock - not Kickstarted, but still a recent small-budget indie project - has sold over 600,000 copies (though many undoubtedly through humble bundles). Assuming non-completely-fucked-up budgeting, every copy sold is pure profit, with only a fraction of it going to distributors like GOG and Steam.

Delcast:

lacktheknack:

Delcast:

lol I love that you had to explain in such depth to prove that it was "not really a sequel, just using a famous name"....
and yeah.. project eternity.. all original... didn't sell it as an old school rpg at all...all the art even looks like Baldur's Gate......
Look I'm not trying to tell you not to be happy about this, just to look out for the situation that very well could be happening. Keeping a leveled head. Even if you don't like them you should be able to see that there is at least a hint of truth in my observations.

I didn't have to... I could have accurately just said "a spiritual successor", which just doesn't get the same point across. Since I wanted to get the point across, I typed more. (Bonus typing: "Planescape: Torment" is to "Tides of Numenara" as "System Shock 2" is to "Bioshock". Bioshock is still an original property.)

And no, I don't see the truth. You ACTUALLY said "original ideas don't sell", which I proved to be false. You can't say that Project Eternity isn't original just because Baldur's Gate is the same genre and style. That's like saying "Dungeons and Dragons is not original content, because Lord of the Rings exists".

At any rate, what we can learn is that CRPG players have been feeling very unloved. It's not so much that "unoriginal ideas don't sell" as much as "there's a humongous fanbase just WAITING for this day". If you want more completely original properties to do well on Kickstarter (as in, completely original down to the genre), find one that has a good pitch, good rewards and attainable goals (the trifecta of perfection that inXile's attempts have all had) and advertise it.

I'm not ignoring these projects because I don't like their ideas, I'm ignoring them because I don't know they exist.

What?! I never really said original ideas didn't sell! What the hell? Did you read the whole post? It was a comment on the fact that some very original ideas in kickstarter with a lot to show have not succeeded.. NOT a belief, but an observation of the weird behaviour of the audience.
I said that its odd that people complain a lot against samey generic games in AAA, but seem to be wanting reboots, revivals and less variation in the independent funding platforms. Get it? The irony?

We all say we want new and exciting, but at the end of the day, people seem to get excited over really familiar things, and thus we get 10 slenderman clones and remakes and 20 minecraft wannabes, and a ceaseless stream of huge revivals of older school games.

If you don't want to see that these projects are pulling nostalgia cards all over the place, then I suppose there is no point even discussing with such lack of objectivity. Of course original ideas can exist in any genre, but its different when you publicize them as "what was great about our old games that publishers don't appreciate anymore"...

You really want proven and visible in your kickstarter? honestly? Don't you see how that will modify the ecosystem o the platform?

You see, when you use your existing prestige and fame to publicize your project in a fully democratic medium for startup projects, it becomes a profoundly unfair playing field. Of course this doesn't disable smaller projects directly, but it still responds to supply and demand. Tough luck for the small ones, I guess its always the case but it's also a bit sad, because as you said.. you just DONT KNOW of these projects.
The thing is that they don't have a way to reach massive media outputs to display their efforts.
Project Eternity and Torment have been in practically -all- mainstream media sites. And a smaller developer, no matter how good, won't be able to get there simply because as people have said they are "not proven".
Part of the whole principle of this platform is enabling possibly unproven but talented teams to fund projects that you wouldn't know existed in any other way, and unavoidably this dynamic breaks the balance and casts a shadow on the smaller worthy endeavors.

I read it right here...

Delcast:
I personally have seen a few great projects that have barely made it or failed... currently I'm very sad about Pulse, because I know the team is capable of delivering a great game... but it seems actually original ideas don't sell.

If you don't actually think that original ideas don't sell, then don't type it.

Also, you greatly underestimate the power you have in promoting these projects. This is a decently major website, and if you can launch a good thread on a Kickstarter you want to support, you'll gain a lot of attention for it.

And while nostalgia cards are being used in the most successful Kickstarts (although I'd argue that Project Eternity doesn't use one beyond "Our company was really good at this before"), it's not the only reason Kickstarts succeed. FTL didn't have an attached nostalgia card (unless you're going to call the entirety of Roguelike gameplay to be a nostalgia card... in which case I will vehemently disagree), and it's currently in the running for getting its own LEGO set. That's an achievement. And if we look beyond Kickstarter, we're going to see tons of things without nostalgia cards getting big, such as the examples you mentioned, Slender and Minecraft.

Give it time, man.

SonOfVoorhees:
Thing about Kickstarter projects are that if they suck then its tough. They could be complete shit. Yes there heart is in the right place, they have the passion and the will to make something awesome. But the talent? The skill? Its difficult. Thing with big companies is that they have business plans. They consider the games and whether they are worth making, will they make a profit? Unfortunately alot of the kickstarter games will make zero profit an isnt that the point? To get payment to make the sequel? It will fail, i bet all kickstarter projects will fail to make a profit or a future for the people involved. Its a shame but making what you want doesnt mean anything. Doesnt make it successful or make you money regardless of kick starter. You need marketing and promoting to make it sell. For now, it seems people are making things for the sake of making them. An thats why you need big companies behind your creation. You need that clout and money etc Its different from the C64 days when you could make a game in your bedroom.

All Kickstarters will fail to make a profit?

You DO understand what profit is, right?

If the crowd-fund was used entirely for development and distribution (which is the whole damn point of crowd funding), then selling ONE copy post-launch means it turned a profit. Not only did everyone involved get paid, but so did everything else in the project, so there's NO MONEY TO MAKE but profit. And if Steam data is anything to go by (it is), even entirely "unmarketed" stuff (as if successful Kickstarts don't already have excellent word-of-mouth, the most powerful advertising) still sells in amounts greater than zero. ESPECIALLY if there's a sale.

You should study some basic economics before posting something like that.

And here I thought Homestuck got an absurd amount of money, bloody hell.

lacktheknack:
snip

One would asume you can read the whole sentence, because it is clearly a sentence lamenting the state of the situation "currently I'm very sad about Pulse, because I know the team is capable of delivering a great game... but it seems actually original ideas don't sell." It is saddening that their great original idea is failing to capture an audience or counterbalance other huge overshadowing behemoth projects.. BASIC reading comperhention. You cannot take out of context so liberally something so deliberately expressed.
IE: YOU CAN'T qoute someone who writes "its a shame that people should die" as someone saying "people should die" it is borderline stupid.

I guess we disagree fundamentally: I don't think a project's value should entirely focus in External accomplisments by the team, but instead should really live and die on the actual pitch's quality. It is obviously hard to separate one from the other, but the distinction in the funding success is almost ridiculous. Nostalgia / team prestige or fame / Well known genres / revivals and or celebrity appeal are all externals in my view, and shouldn't become the reason for the funding.
Note that I have never said that "ALL KICKSTARTERS EVER FOLLOW THE SAME FAULT" as you seem to be implying. I find that many have been lucky enough to find backing and sufficient press coverage, such as FTL, Sir you are being huntedm, space suit Zero, Homesick, or Republique (almost didn't make it)... and many others..

Of course there is nothing to do other than giving it time. It's a popular medium.. people will speak.

I think the best course of action would be to simply rename "Kickstarter" to "Crowdfunder", just so that cynical gits like me don't get all "Wait, wasn't it about kickstarting for those who can't afford to fund it on their own; why do we keep hearing about projects being 'kickstarted' when they didn't really need a leg-up in the first place?" and all.

Make no mistake, I'm keeping an eye on this, and I do hope it ends up being good, but as a consumer I am simply not happy about being asked to help an established business fund something. That might have something to do with the fact that my budget is tight, so I want actual, not potential value for my euro, it's not a matter of "trust", it's a matter of me simply not being willing to throw my money at something until I know what exactly I'm getting.

Delcast:
sniiip

I guess we'll leave it at that, then.

I WILL say this, though: In terms of quality, Republique is doomed, and I purposefully didn't contribute to it. Why? Because we've done this before:

image

image

image

I actually kind of liked it, but it certainly wasn't for the gameplay. And if a high-quality adventure game couldn't really pull it off, I have no hope for a stealth-based game.

Vegosiux:
I think the best course of action would be to simply rename "Kickstarter" to "Crowdfunder", just so that cynical gits like me don't get all "Wait, wasn't it about kickstarting for those who can't afford to fund it on their own; why do we keep hearing about projects being 'kickstarted' when they didn't really need a leg-up in the first place?" and all.

I think you've missed the comments here and elsewhere that inXile tried to pitch their ideas to publishers for *years* to be met with little more than half-interest and no actual intention of taking the idea anywhere. It may have been more Wasteland 2 that this applied to but it sounds like they sure as hell needed Kickstarter to get the project off the ground.

Vegosiux:
Make no mistake, I'm keeping an eye on this, and I do hope it ends up being good, but as a consumer I am simply not happy about being asked to help an established business fund something. That might have something to do with the fact that my budget is tight, so I want actual, not potential value for my euro, it's not a matter of "trust", it's a matter of me simply not being willing to throw my money at something until I know what exactly I'm getting.

Here as well you're confused about the fact that just because a company is established doesn't mean they can automatically afford to fund or find a publisher to fund their project. Also it's not like anyone held a gun to your head; why are you unhappy about being asked to help fund something? They didn't chap your door and stick a bucket in your face, making you feel guilty if you refused to donate. No-one forced you to donate so if you don't want to/can't afford to then you don't donate. Simple.

Finally if you're not wanting to throw your money at something until you know what you're getting, doesn't that rule you out of pretty much every Kickstarter no matter who's doing it? Going by that sentiment at the very least surely you're safer going with a project like this as a crowd of folks like inXile are more "established" (read: they're experienced and have been in the business for years) than a crowd of unknowns, who by your logic are more in need of the leg-up; inXile are surely the safer bet when it comes to producing something of quality that will provide the desired value for your Euro. You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

Goofguy:
Thank you very much for this. I probably should have checked their site before giving up entirely. I will be pledging in the next few minutes, cheers.

No problem. Here's hoping we get our money's worth.:)

Just grabbed myself the $35 pack. It looks good!

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