Devs Had to Demand Female Focus Testers for The Last of Us

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT
 

Unnamed research firm?

How is that considered a valid enough source to warrant a claim such as this? This is no different from the unnamed publishers who Jim mentioned in his video a couple of weeks ago. No names or companies are mentioned in regards to who actually said or done these things, so as far as news reporting goes, it has no validity.

If it is true, I understand the reaction, and agree that it is completely wrong, but as it stands, I don't understand the knee-jerk responses to completely unverified sources.

zz_:
Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

Be that as it may though, it seems odd that, assuming one is aiming for largest possible market, one would deliberately shut out potential customer bases solely on the grounds that their contribution is unlikely. Not insubstantial, mind you, but merely unlikely? This is supposed to be a research firm, dammit, not a fucking horse race.

Let's take sex/gender politics out of it for a second, in as much as we can. Using your example, if the percentage of gamers in a given demographic compared to the entire market is only one out of every ten, would it not then make sense to make one out of every ten testers a representative of that demographic?

But we can't truly take the politics out of it, can we. Considering the metric fuckton of sexism shit dropped on gaming and geek culture recently, why would a company deliberately expose themselves to this kind of bad press? It makes no fucking sense!

Female gamers might be rare, but that's not the same thing as nonexistent. I don't know many gamer girls, but I do know a few, and denying the whole lot any sort of representation is what got us all into this mess in the first place.

Lilani:

Everything comes with a point of reasonability. Unless you're going to argue there is literally no middle ground between ONLY testing white heterosexual males between the ages of 18-30 and ONLY testing 500 grandmothers, I think you know full well what I'm getting at here. And unless you're going to argue there is absolutely no potential for difference between how a male might react to something and how a female might, I think you also know full well there is a value in it.

And I think there is evidence of this that already exists. If 2K Games had tested male and female focus groups on the Bioshock Infinite cover, do you really think the females would have so unanimously preferred relegating Elizabeth to the back cover? Do you really think both males and females are equally enamored with playing as only a white 30-something male with brown hair and stubble?

I knew what you were getting at but I still don't think you're grasping that the difference of target audiences between focus tested white male gamers and the elderly is no more inadmissible than that of average female gamers. What appeals to male gamers in the video games they love just might never appeal to female gamers: Even if Isaac were actually a promiscuous young independent latino woman it still wouldn't change the fact you spend the majority of Dead Space without dialogue and covered head to toe in armor while blowing limbs off of things that should be dead. Changing the box art of Bioshock Infinite isn't going to change that it's still a story told from the perspective of a man about a woman in a game about ideals, prejudice, and shooting people in the face with their zappy hands. Female gamers might still not like that, and neither will their grandmothers, but that's not going to change the content of the game on any level besides the superficial.

Lilani:

Don't you think there's a paradox going on when it's very clear the goal of AAA games as of late has been to cast the widest net to get the most money, yet the net they're aiming for with demographics is actually very limited? Women are becoming a larger and larger portion of the market, and while men may still make up the majority they're going to have to learn to deal with us one way or another. If they haven't learned how to make a game that can't appeal to both at once (which shouldn't really be that hard, it's been done so many times now), then they'd better start figuring out how because we aren't going anywhere and the more they pretend we don't exist the more money they're losing out on.

I see only playtesting males as a self-perpetuating problem. You only playtest with males, so the changes you make are geared toward male sensibilities and are completely unchecked by any other opinions, which limits the game's appeal even more. If you've got a specific demographic in mind then fine, but AAA publishers want big sales, and systematically shutting out 30-40% of the gaming population is only shooting themselves in the foot.

AAA Publishers have a lot of problems but they're only pandering towards a certain demographic because they continue to shell out money year after year for their games, regardless of the quality of the content. There's a lot of things wrong with that, none of it I think is specifically because there weren't more females in play-testing sessions. Play-testing with males isn't a problem to publishers because they keep buying their games, so how could they possibly think something is wrong? There's not a "Stagnation of ideas" line graph they can turn to let them know when they need to mix things up, all they see are the sales numbers (which have yet to truly fail - after all, is Bioshock infinite really going to tank because of it's box art?). They'd only be shooting themselves in the foot if there was a guarantee they could make more money while spending less by switching to making games aimed at female gamers (or both) and then refused to do it, while they continued to lose money while aiming at male gamers exclusively. But it's never that simple, so it hasn't happened yet.

This is all fine and well here and there. But i think if this practice was implemented on a large scale industry wide it could have some pretty bad consequences. There does come a point where you have to acknowledge that different groups of people like different things and this is especially true between the genders. Same with things different groups do not like which is also true between men and women in general. The problem with compromise is it often causes both sides to be less than 100% thrilled with what they wind up with since they only get 50% of what they wanted.

I'm not trying to say that women shouldn't have games that cater to their tastes. I just think it may be a better idea to focus on them completely from the beginning of a games development if you want to make a game for them. I think that some of the backlash from some defensive male gamers is based on fear that what appeals to them in a game may be diluted by attempting to bring in too much female input. At the same time i think its a little disingenuous for gaming companies to claim to want to get more female input on games that are already pretty much done, before women's viewpoints are taken into account. At that point its not as though any big leaps in game design are likely to take place. Maybe cosmetics at most.

Now of course i understand the goal is to be able to sell both groups the same product to increase sales. At least that is what the game companies are hoping for. For them its potentially more money for the same amount of work. Anyone remember when the music industry was trying to push rock/rap on everyone? I don't see this overall working out much better in the long run. People just tend to like different things and combining genres and tastes always run the risk of alienating those you try to cater to.

This doesn't mean that games wont be made that appeal to both men and women. That already happens all the time. Some things are just universally admired and enjoyed. Sometimes they were made more for men/boys(bioshock seems to be the current example) and other times they were intended for women/girls(MLP as evidenced by many on these forums).

nathan-dts:
That box art thing just angers me.

I consider the box art bit for bioshock and the last of us to be very tiny anthills that people want to make a big thing about. But good on ND for polling the other half of the gaming demographic.

Legion:
Unnamed research firm?

How is that considered a valid enough source to warrant a claim such as this? This is no different from the unnamed publishers who Jim mentioned in his video a couple of weeks ago. No names or companies are mentioned in regards to who actually said or done these things, so as far as news reporting goes, it has no validity.

If it is true, I understand the reaction, and agree that it is completely wrong, but as it stands, I don't understand the knee-jerk responses to completely unverified sources.

You got a point. In fact this is like the third or fourth time that Naughty dog has come around and been like "look at us STANDING FOR EQUALITY!!! " Makes one wonder if there just fluffing there feathers for the free publicity.lol

But I trust naughty dog and Ive always rooted for them. I remember back when you escapist hipsters were calling them misogynist because of uncharteds nathan drake.;) Now look at you? LICKING THERE BOOTS!!!!! lol

UberPubert:

Lilani:

Everything comes with a point of reasonability. Unless you're going to argue there is literally no middle ground between ONLY testing white heterosexual males between the ages of 18-30 and ONLY testing 500 grandmothers, I think you know full well what I'm getting at here. And unless you're going to argue there is absolutely no potential for difference between how a male might react to something and how a female might, I think you also know full well there is a value in it.

And I think there is evidence of this that already exists. If 2K Games had tested male and female focus groups on the Bioshock Infinite cover, do you really think the females would have so unanimously preferred relegating Elizabeth to the back cover? Do you really think both males and females are equally enamored with playing as only a white 30-something male with brown hair and stubble?

I knew what you were getting at but I still don't think you're grasping that the difference of target audiences between focus tested white male gamers and the elderly is no more inadmissible than that of average female gamers. What appeals to male gamers in the video games they love just might never appeal to female gamers: Even if Isaac were actually a promiscuous young independent latino woman it still wouldn't change the fact you spend the majority of Dead Space without dialogue and covered head to toe in armor while blowing limbs off of things that should be dead. Changing the box art of Bioshock Infinite isn't going to change that it's still a story told from the perspective of a man about a woman in a game about ideals, prejudice, and shooting people in the face with their zappy hands. Female gamers might still not like that, and neither will their grandmothers, but that's not going to change the content of the game on any level besides the superficial.

Lilani:

Don't you think there's a paradox going on when it's very clear the goal of AAA games as of late has been to cast the widest net to get the most money, yet the net they're aiming for with demographics is actually very limited? Women are becoming a larger and larger portion of the market, and while men may still make up the majority they're going to have to learn to deal with us one way or another. If they haven't learned how to make a game that can't appeal to both at once (which shouldn't really be that hard, it's been done so many times now), then they'd better start figuring out how because we aren't going anywhere and the more they pretend we don't exist the more money they're losing out on.

I see only playtesting males as a self-perpetuating problem. You only playtest with males, so the changes you make are geared toward male sensibilities and are completely unchecked by any other opinions, which limits the game's appeal even more. If you've got a specific demographic in mind then fine, but AAA publishers want big sales, and systematically shutting out 30-40% of the gaming population is only shooting themselves in the foot.

AAA Publishers have a lot of problems but they're only pandering towards a certain demographic because they continue to shell out money year after year for their games, regardless of the quality of the content. There's a lot of things wrong with that, none of it I think is specifically because there weren't more females in play-testing sessions. Play-testing with males isn't a problem to publishers because they keep buying their games, so how could they possibly think something is wrong? There's not a "Stagnation of ideas" line graph they can turn to let them know when they need to mix things up, all they see are the sales numbers (which have yet to truly fail - after all, is Bioshock infinite really going to tank because of it's box art?). They'd only be shooting themselves in the foot if there was a guarantee they could make more money while spending less by switching to making games aimed at female gamers (or both) and then refused to do it, while they continued to lose money while aiming at male gamers exclusively. But it's never that simple, so it hasn't happened yet.

I agree with the statement that if we want women in games lets ask them what they want and develop for a woman in mind from the beginning. Lets not be shocked or horrified if they dont want to play the same things we do but with boobs(gears of boobs call of boobs etc) I mean as long as were all happy and treated with respect thats all that counts.

I know there will be those that will say "well women like to play more this than this kind of genre so there must be alot of sexism in that genre" 5 years from now but whatever.

So that 47% percent of women in games what do they play more of on average?

Hopefully they won't fuck this game up like they did with Uncharted 3. That was an unfortunate game.

rbstewart7263:

So that 47% percent of women in games what do they play more of on average?

If I had to guess it'd mostly be RPGs and other more socially oriented games. I don't think it has as much to do with malleable protagonists having a changeable sex as people say, just that the gameplay (more dialogue heavy, interesting story, not that much of a focus on combat) is universally more appealing; stuff like Skyrim and even Mass Effect (which I also like).

UberPubert:

rbstewart7263:

So that 47% percent of women in games what do they play more of on average?

If I had to guess it'd mostly be RPGs. I don't think it has as much to do with malleable protagonists having a changeable sex as people say, just that the gameplay (more dialogue heavy, interesting story, not that much of a focus on combat) is universally more appealing; stuff like Skyrim and even Mass Effect (which I also like).

Id agree as legend of zelda is also a common pick amongst the womenz. Id say that immersion into another world is probably the main factor over testing your skills which is what would appeal to your "common" man.(ie: your twitch shot in cod etc)

My love for Naughty Dog only continues to grow.

Shine on, you crazy hounds.

rbstewart7263:
Id agree as legend of zelda is also a common pick amongst the womenz. Id say that immersion into another world is probably the main factor over testing your skills which is what would appeal to your "common" man.(ie: your twitch shot in cod etc)

Yeah, now that I think of it, the pool of universally appealing genres extends to adventure games, and even platformers. It's mostly shooters (test of virtual marksmanship), action and fighting games (tests of sick combos) I hear about having limited appeal, followed by complaints about them being hopelessly machismo, but I don't see it past the surface level (guns, violence, muscles, yelling, etc).

zz_:
Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

Actually the gender ratio is closer to 35-65 according to stats from the entertainment software asociation, so that's a pretty decent chunk of their audience...

Good for Naughty Dog! I'm very glad that they're very much sticking to their ideas with this. It's an outrageous amount of bullshit that we still have this thinking in the industry. I hope The Last Of Us does as well as it deserves to. I know I'll be buying it.

UberPubert:

rbstewart7263:
Id agree as legend of zelda is also a common pick amongst the womenz. Id say that immersion into another world is probably the main factor over testing your skills which is what would appeal to your "common" man.(ie: your twitch shot in cod etc)

Yeah, now that I think of it, the pool of universally appealing genres extends to adventure games, and even platformers. It's mostly shooters (test of virtual marksmanship), action and fighting games (tests of sick combos) I hear about having limited appeal, followed by complaints about them being hopelessly machismo, but I don't see it past the surface level (guns, violence, muscles, yelling, etc).

I think that if you made a game that was more immersive but still tested your skill level(hawken comes to mind we got a few good females in beta with us) then that would hold more universal appeal.

Can I ask why this is being labeled as "rampant sexism"? It's more likely that there just isn't a contingent of females seeking work as focus testers, in the company Naughty Dog uses. It is probably that benign.

I mean seriously, the coordinated effort to label everything misogynist, and sexist by gaming "journalism" has reached the creepy-tier. On some days, it seems like every journalist lets out an article about "sexism" on the very same day, like every blog site belongs to a syndicated Rupert Murdoch agenda-scandal.

That's the most valid criticism about the state of women in the game industry that I've seen to date unless there really aren't any female focus testers available.

rbstewart7263:

I think that if you made a game that was more immersive but still tested your skill level(hawken comes to mind we got a few good females in beta with us) then that would hold more universal appeal.

Ooh, free to play mech game? Count me in.

On topic: To be absolutely clear I don't think there's any game women can't like, it's just that the majority of them might not, and that doesn't have to be a problem for anyone. I think these games can co-exist with ones with broader appeal without trying to become them.

Helen Jones:
Female here, not sure I understand the problem. Why do they need to specifically find out what women think, they're not specifically finding out what men think of the game, are they?
Surely they were going to get a random sample of gamers to beta test the game and give feedback which, being from a random sample, would include female gamers views.

Here is a general idea of how a guy might design a game (Also about 99% of all fantasy games):

Guy 1: "Okay, we need to design a male character for this game".

Guy 2: "How about a 7'foot tall badass viking, wielding a broadsword and wearing full armor?".

Guy 1: "FANTASTIC IDEA! Now how about a female character?"

Guy 2: "We could try a strong and smart female knight who carries a sword and shield!"

Guy 3: "Or...we could make her into a cheap stripper who wears nothing but a leather thong and bra, coupled with over-the-top acrobatics and arming her with a BDSM whip?"

Guy 1: "STRIPPER IT IS!"

So I support Naughty Dog in the decision to get input from both genders, because it also allows them to make the game more realistic and less of how men THINK women are. Especially since as guys we don't fully know how a girl may or may-not react to something we personally find funny or awesome. A lesson I've slowly been learning from my girlfriend (like for example: I learned that farting is hilarious regardless of gender, and that YES women can also find boobs to be totally awesome. Also that I suck horribly at Pokemon and even my GF laughs at my love for Magikarp).

Now if only Levine had the balls and the heart to fight for the actual lead character in his game, and not give the game the impression of wanting to be a cheap ripoff of Bruce Campbell's Evil Dead box art... than maybe I wouldn't have decided to wait fo r that eventual 75% off sale before throwing down movie for it.

Sadly, marketers are still in that 'females don't play or care about video games' stink mentality. Just glad some devs have the guts to stand up to fight to get their games out there the way it was intended to look and feel. First impressions are everything, and Bioshock Infinite would in no way been harmed had they actually let the lead character be on the front cover. No, not that evil dead hail to the king wannabe dude... he was support!

SteewpidZombie:

Here is a general idea of how a guy might design a game (Also about 99% of all fantasy games):

Guy 1: "Okay, we need to design a male character for this game".

Guy 2: "How about a 7'foot tall badass viking, wielding a broadsword and wearing full armor?".

Guy 1: "FANTASTIC IDEA! Now how about a female character?"

Guy 2: "We could try a strong and smart female knight who carries a sword and shield!"

Guy 3: "Or...we could make her into a cheap stripper who wears nothing but a leather thong and bra, coupled with over-the-top acrobatics and arming her with a BDSM whip?"

Guy 1: "STRIPPER IT IS!"

Where can I buy this game?

UberPubert:

SteewpidZombie:

Here is a general idea of how a guy might design a game (Also about 99% of all fantasy games):

Guy 1: "Okay, we need to design a male character for this game".

Guy 2: "How about a 7'foot tall badass viking, wielding a broadsword and wearing full armor?".

Guy 1: "FANTASTIC IDEA! Now how about a female character?"

Guy 2: "We could try a strong and smart female knight who carries a sword and shield!"

Guy 3: "Or...we could make her into a cheap stripper who wears nothing but a leather thong and bra, coupled with over-the-top acrobatics and arming her with a BDSM whip?"

Guy 1: "STRIPPER IT IS!"

Where can I buy this game?

Print off a list of all major MMO's and RPG's released in the past 10 years. Take a dart and toss it at the list. You'll have a good 9 outta 10 chance of getting that game.

SteewpidZombie:

Print off a list of all major MMO's and RPG's released in the past 10 years. Take a dart and toss it at the list. You'll have a good 9 outta 10 chance of getting that game.

Well, I can't recall many games where I get to play as a viking, never-mind a seven foot tall one. Guild Wars 2 comes close with the Norn, and I suppose there are the Nords in Skyrim, but neither of those games are really big on women in BDSM gear and armed with whips. Though I do notice the Sylvari are rather lacking in attire, the humans seem quite modest.

Besides that I don't really see any. The worst offender in recent memory is demon forge, but in that one the man is actually just wearing a simple leather harness and tight leather pants, and his more agile female companion is wearing much less, though she uses a bow rather than a whip. Also, the game was universally panned for just being crap in general.

Helen Jones:
Female here, not sure I understand the problem. Why do they need to specifically find out what women think, they're not specifically finding out what men think of the game, are they?
Surely they were going to get a random sample of gamers to beta test the game and give feedback which, being from a random sample, would include female gamers views.

If you had bothered to read the article before posting you would have noticed they said the research firm wasn't planning on asking ANY women.

Legion:
Unnamed research firm?

How is that considered a valid enough source to warrant a claim such as this? This is no different from the unnamed publishers who Jim mentioned in his video a couple of weeks ago. No names or companies are mentioned in regards to who actually said or done these things, so as far as news reporting goes, it has no validity.

If it is true, I understand the reaction, and agree that it is completely wrong, but as it stands, I don't understand the knee-jerk responses to completely unverified sources.

I don't think you understand how journalism works at all.

somonels:
That's the most valid criticism about the state of women in the game industry that I've seen to date unless there really aren't any female focus testers available.

FYI, there are no qualifications required for being a focus tester.

UberPubert:

SteewpidZombie:

Print off a list of all major MMO's and RPG's released in the past 10 years. Take a dart and toss it at the list. You'll have a good 9 outta 10 chance of getting that game.

Well, I can't recall many games where I get to play as a viking, never-mind a seven foot tall one. Guild Wars 2 comes close with the Norn, and I suppose there are the Nords in Skyrim, but neither of those games are really big on women in BDSM gear and armed with whips. Though I do notice the Sylvari are rather lacking in attire, the humans seem quite modest.

Besides that I don't really see any. The worst offender in recent memory is demon forge, but in that one the man is actually just wearing a simple leather harness and tight leather pants, and his more agile female companion is wearing much less, though she uses a bow rather than a whip. Also, the game was universally panned for just being crap in general.

Here is a brief list with pictures included for proof. I'm not gonna bother spending alot of time to go hunt down all the singeplayer games (there are sooo many including non-triple A games that it would take me awhile to sift through them all). So here are just some of the Mainstream/MMO examples.

Tera Online:

Biomeks:

GuildWars2:

World of Warcraft:

The Old Republic:

Skyrim: The default is pretty good, but the modding community changed that. I don't even need pictures, the mods out there go above and beyond.

Now these (With the exception of Skyrim) are all online and (usually) reward the most revealing armor at higher levels. I will however admit that more recent games like The Old Republic and Skyrim have managed to keep it tasteful and less sex-infused compared to other games. Old Republic just has a selection of revealing armors, and that one Leia Slave outfit (Yes that's a actual clothing item you can wear in the game). While games like Skyrim are immediately pounced upon by modders to make the sexy and NSFW stuff.

TheKasp:

zz_:
Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

Actually, this is not true. Frequent purchasers are 48% female.

Hmmm.... I'd be genuinely interested to see some figures either way. Despite the current wave of hyperbolic handwringing, society isn't wildly sexist in advanced European and North American regions; a genuinely effective market research firm would focus test based on sales figures. Seems odd they would completely ignore one sex unless there was data showing overwhelming male interest.

Lilani:

nathan-dts:
That box art thing just angers me.

But at least they didn't give in like they did with Bioshock Infinite.

I find it rather appalling that this "no women in the focus testing or on the cover" thing isn't just an oversight, but an active and systematic endeavor by publishers. I suppose it makes sense that none of this is an accident, but still. It's rather disturbing. Or "creepy," as I believe Jim Sterling worded it.

I realize these actions stem from a desire to make money rather than actual misogyny, but I still can't help but feel this way when I hear of devs fighting tooth and nail for things that I never realized was even a problem. If I'd realized my gender was going to be such a problem for the games industry, I would have avoided the mistake of not being a white, heterosexual male between the ages of 18 and 30.

Here's what I don't understand. Don't women make up about 50% or so of the population? Why WOULDN'T you want to have a focus group with women in it? Besides getting a broader focus group, you're just getting more people in there. Plus seeing what both men and women like or who responds better to something would help with marketing wouldn't it?

zz_:
Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

Yes, except 2010 demographic research on gaming (admittedly using a much broader definition than what is thought of as the 'core' gamer), showed that it broke down as follows:
Most gamers were over 30 (most as in more than 50%)
And, 42% were female.

Now, if you're considering a specific subgroup, then yes, your ratio might hold, but given the data as a whole, pretending that '42%' is such a small group as to be insignificant is pretty stupid, and as a marketer would mean you are deliberately missing out on the opportunity to broaden your audience into territory the data shows does exist.

If you know 40% of the market is over the age of 20, but design games strictly with the assumption that only those under 10 will ever buy or play them, what do you expect the end result to be?

Cool, but not sure if this is an industry-wide issue, I have a female friend who worked over at Ubisoft as a tester on a few games, they didn't seem to care about gender there.

I'm so tired of this... I'm just so tired...
Off the top of my head, I have... 6 female friends who i see on a daily basis (at uni and such) and all 6 of them regularly play videogames!
One of them's a fucking painter!

Akalabeth:

zz_:
Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

http://www.onlineeducation.net/videogame

Actually it's a ratio of 6:4 not 9:1 but that's a nice, if revealing, guess.

Let's for a moment assume that the 6:4 ratio is also true for the demographic of console gamers. It probably isn't due to casual and handheld games but lets be optimistic about the amount of console gamers who are female.

You do realize that according to that infographic that you posted only 4.4% of console gamers are xbox female players while 22.8% are male. This means that there are over 400% more male xbox players than there are female xbox players. Meaning that one in five xbox gamers is female.

On the PS3 side of things according to that graph of all console gamers 3.6% are female PS3 gamers and 12.6% are male PS3 gamers. This means that there are 250% more male PS3 gamers than there are female PS3 gamers. Meaning that 2 in 7 PS3 gamers are female.

Are you still quite sure that the ratio is so even? Or that it's something absurd like 47% female like someone suggested earlier in this thread?

Akalabeth:

Skyrim: The default is pretty good, but the modding community changed that. I don't even need pictures, the mods out there go above and beyond.

Now these (With the exception of Skyrim) are all online and (usually) reward the most revealing armor at higher levels. I will however admit that more recent games like The Old Republic and Skyrim have managed to keep it tasteful and less sex-infused compared to other games. Old Republic just has a selection of revealing armors, and that one Leia Slave outfit (Yes that's a actual clothing item you can wear in the game). While games like Skyrim are immediately pounced upon by modders to make the sexy and NSFW stuff.

No question about those other examples (however if the game sells I see nothing wrong with the content) but complaining about mods is absurd.

why would you complain about something that some random gamer made on their own free time and that you are not by any means forced to download or add into the game.

Someone could add Justin Bieber as background music for Skyrim in a mod and I couldn't care less since I don't have to touch the mod.

SteewpidZombie:
-snip-

I'm not sure I understand, first you promised me fully armored viking characters and dominatrix women, now we're just perusing skimpy MMO costumes people dress themselves up in and judging Skyrim on the content of it's modders? Your problem seems to be with the art directors and consumer tastes and has little or no bearing on what game designers decided for their games and I'm wondering if this trend would continue in the single player games you can't - sorry, "won't" - list...

JudgeGame:

Legion:
Unnamed research firm?

How is that considered a valid enough source to warrant a claim such as this? This is no different from the unnamed publishers who Jim mentioned in his video a couple of weeks ago. No names or companies are mentioned in regards to who actually said or done these things, so as far as news reporting goes, it has no validity.

If it is true, I understand the reaction, and agree that it is completely wrong, but as it stands, I don't understand the knee-jerk responses to completely unverified sources.

I don't think you understand how journalism works at all.

Ordinarily a reporter will have an anonymous source give details on a person/company etc. For example "Our anonymous source revealed that Matt Damon is having an affair". The source is kept secret for their own security, but the information they reveal is open. Giving the accused the oppurtunity to respond.

This kind of journalism would be the equivalent of saying "We spoke to our source Mr Smith and he told us that an unnamed celebrity is having an affair". As a story, it has no value. Nothing to go on. The unnamed firm cannot confirm or deny anything, and nobody has anybody to actually be angry with.

Stories such as this are basically unsubstantiated rumours. So people getting angry doesn't make any sense.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here