Jagex Busts Teen for School Shooting Comment

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Desert Punk:

Abandon4093:

So the guy is a fucking moron, it still doesn't mean he was actually considering doing anything.

Well obviously he did consider doing it. And then he told people about it, while drawing a swastika. He wouldnt be in this mess if he hadnt considered it then spoken about it to others.

So I considered actually robbing that bank when I said "fuck, I'm broke. Guess I'd better rob a bank."?

You know damnwell what I mean when I say 'considered it'.

And the Swastika shit just backs me up really. He's more than likely just some attention seeking shut in who acted out and nothing more.

Desert Punk:

Abandon4093:

Desert Punk:

Who has been sentenced so far exactly? He made a credible threat, and had the means and opportunity to carry out that threat, so he has been arrested while the investigation is underway.

With a bail of 50 grand.

That's ludicrous when dealing with a case where no actual crime has been committed.

And get off the means opportunity shite, that virtually applies to anyone who could make that threat in the US. If he owned weapons in a country where they are controlled, you might have a point. But his father owning a gun in the US is hardly damning evidence.

Also, I just looked at the article again. This happened in ENGLAND. Where you know...guns are 'controlled' ect?

Then how did his father legally own guns? And how was the bail 50,000 Dollars?

Either some information has been bungled up here or the entire story is bullshit.

This is so incredibly short sighted. This will stop nothing. The only thing this case will accomplish is insuring that the next time a school shooting happens we will be even less likely to see it coming.

The smart thing to do would be to have measures in place at the school itself to stop these shootings from happening and informing those responsible for implementing those measures to keep an eye on this kid so they can stop him immediately. Something like a "random" person/locker search for firearms or anything else directly incriminating to his plans. At least that way they wouldn't have had to tip their hand about how they learned of his plans, and they would either have actual evidence for their case against him(leading to a harsher penalty and a greater likelihood that the charges would stick) or they would realize that it was a typical idle teenage threat without wasting so much taxpayer money on a prosecution that is questionable.

Freedom of speech does more to protect you than censorship ever will. People who are able to say what they like will make it clear what side they are on so you can readily identify who your enemies are and who to watch out for and avoid. This case as it is now, will simply convince the next people planning on the next school shooting to be that much more careful about giving any clues to what they plan. We won't see it coming and our cycle of paranoia will only get worse.

I'm okay with this. Playing any game online and stating you're about to kill another player is fine. "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" being lobbed at your Nemesis during a Team Fortress 2 game makes sense. It's hard to take out of context.

Specifically saying you're going to assault someone who's NOT related to the game that's taking place, and reinforcing it with imagery? That's something else entirely. Add to that the fact that he was throwing antisemitic comments around and yeah, arresting him makes perfect sense.

If any loon ever tries to use these forums as a means to try and trumpet some sort of murder in the making and shows a fair dose of intent, I can only hope someone here will have the good judgment to try and call the cops.

I like the idea of scaring the shit out of this kid but actual jail time. You are aware our shitty American prison system sends harmless idiots like this into prison and pumps out hardened criminals that will actually commit this shit. Good on the gamers for reporting him but the police should have just scared him a bit, investigated without arresting, let his parents kick his ass or something.

I think it's rediculous, personally. The number of time's I've seen someone online claim they're going to kill someone, kill themselves or go on a rampage is easily in the hundreds, if not higher (I used to frequent 4chan) and to my knowledge NONE of those people ever acted on their words.

I personally don't like the idea someone can be arrested just for saying something. I understand legitimate threats should be illegal, but there's no way to tell this was a legitimate threat at all.

Given that school shootings aren't exactly rare these days, this seems like a credible threat. He doesn't seem to have typed it in jest, and a great deal of Americans have the means to shoot up a school if they so wish. I didn't know making general threats ("I'm going to shoot up a school") was a crime, as it doesn't cause any particular individual to have a reasonable fear of harm (as in, with assault or intimidation), unless one of the other gamers on Runescape happened to go to the same school as he did. Still, if it's a crime, he's certainly guilty of it.

Why is everyone going crazy about his $50k bail though? Bail is a function of several factors, including the weight of the crime, the suspect's ties to the community, his total wealth (his parents apparently have a lot of money as they actually paid the bail), etc. And you get it back, assuming you don't flee the country to escape the trial.

Jesus people, he's probably just a troll looking to aggravate people. You should not be arrested for a joke you make in a video game, regardless if the joke is in bad taste.

Desert Punk:

Abandon4093:

Desert Punk:

Who has been sentenced so far exactly? He made a credible threat, and had the means and opportunity to carry out that threat, so he has been arrested while the investigation is underway.

With a bail of 50 grand.

That's ludicrous when dealing with a case where no actual crime has been committed.

And get off the means opportunity shite, that virtually applies to anyone who could make that threat in the US. If he owned weapons in a country where they are controlled, you might have a point. But his father owning a gun in the US is hardly damning evidence.

Also, I just looked at the article again. This happened in ENGLAND. Where you know...guns are 'controlled' ect?

So uh...what was that about me not having a point?

Oxford Massachusetts isn't in England... it's in the state of Massachusetts ... in the US.
The UNIVERSITY of Oxford however is, in fact, in Oxford England. Which is likely where your confusion is coming from.

You have to look at the whole instance in order to understand why they did what they did.

When Jagex turned over the logs, THEN they found it wasn't a "one-off" joke. It was part of an ongoing series of comments which also included antisemitism and violence against animals. When you look at the psyche of school shooters; violence against animals, antisemitism, and repeated self-aggrandized threats surface constantly.

I'm sure everyone's joked about similarly inappropriate topics with friends. It's human nature and dark humor. But the difference is: not everyone phrases the "jokes" as "threats" and repeats them constantly as well as building a profile of aggression.

Naturally, the prosecutors will turn to his other personal records via his computer to build their case.

bloody idiot is after ruining his life because he wanted to be a 'hardman' on the internet.

If he's lucky the judge will recognise him for what he is... an idiot.

madster11:
That's odd, i always thought we'd first see thought crime prosecution in the UK.
Huh.

So if i say 'im going to blow up the white house', that line right there means a navy seal team can bust through my door and shoot me in the head? It's a credible threat, because my dad has petrol cans in the garage.

What the fuck, America? Apparently we have more rights here in Australia, a nanny state that even makes it a crime for young people to drive powerful cars.
I would not get my bail set at $50k if i drove my goddamn car into a school bus.

If you say "I'm going to blow up the white house tomorrow" and you are found to have large quantities of explosives and the ability to blow up the white house, then yes, you can be arrested. No you won't be shot in your head, unless you fight.
So many people are missing the point if I say "God I'm so mad I could kill someone." That's not illegal, I won't be prosecuted. If I say "God I'm so mad I could kill Tom Johnson in accounting tomorrow at lunch." and I have weapon clearly capable of doing it then YES I can be arrested and SHOULD be. It's all about what you say/intent/specificity. Just like saying I could eat a horse, won't make people think you're about to actually eat a horse, unless you have a stable and a grill fired up with a horse looking mighty sad next to it.

Abandon4093:

Devoneaux:

Abandon4093:

With a bail of 50 grand.

That's ludicrous when dealing with a case where no actual crime has been committed.

And get off the means opportunity shite, that virtually applies to anyone who could make that threat in the US. If he owned weapons in a country where they are controlled, you might have a point. But his father owning a gun in the US is hardly damning evidence.

I'm sorry, but can you point to where it says that the First amendment protects your right to threaten someone? Serious question, because I am pretty sure it doesn't protect your right to threaten someone's life.

I didn't say anything about the first amendment.

I'm just pointing out that some stupid kid saying stupid shit online isn't really a threat.

Investigate the claims, sure. That's only smart. But claiming he had means and opportunity because his dad owns a gun and he goes to school.

Well that's just fucking silly.

You did say he didn't commit a crime, which is factually false. Threats of violence in the US is a crime. Whether or not someone will go through with such threats is irrelevant, as they can be arrested for stating such intent.

SpAc3man:
What a dickface. He may or may not have been taking the piss but he needed to be made an example of.

If he was just joking then why does he need to be made an example of?

kajinking:
This seems a bit like common sense, with all that's going on who would honestly joke about that?

I might, but I'd have the sense to structure it like a joke instead of a fake threat.

Agayek:

piinyouri:
Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoa.
Wait, he was arrested for not actually doing anything?
I've now read this article slowly about 4 times and if someone could correct me that would be wonderful but it doesnt seem to me he actually did anything, yet was arrested.

I mean, not the most savory character, yeah okay.
But saying you are going to do something, and actually doing it are still two different things nowadays aren't they?

Threatening to attack someone, their property, etc is illegal in the US. I forget the actual classification, but it basically boils down to "Your free speech ends where the next guy's peace of mind begins". Whether or not you actually agree that that should be the case, that is the way the law is currently set up.

Not really. You know those scumbags who threatened South Park over muhammad, they structured their threat in vague enough language such that it was legal. Peace of mind be damned

Adam Jensen:

Desert Punk:
They pretty much have him over a barrel

They had the intent, and by collecting the weapons from his home they found his means. All they had left was opportunity, which he said he was going to shoot the school up TOMORROW.

I suppose some retard in the justice system could drool on himself when they have a person with means and opportunity making threats and go "derrr well we ought to wait till he does somem I suppose..." and then let a few people die before arresting him...

I think this guy is an asshole, but the only thing keeping him under surveillance is the fear that he might do it. Not the actual evidence. They have no motive. Which just goes to show how fucked up American society had become. It runs on scaremongering. These are the things that American government will use as an excuse to spy on their citizens via internet. They're not even trying to solve the real problems behind mass shootings. This is what they do instead. CISPA just passed a few days ago by the way. And the proposed gun control regulations are a joke with a loophole large enough you could fit entire North American continent through it. The more scared the people are, the easier it is for them to give up their freedoms to feel a bit safer, instead of focusing their efforts on fixing the actual problems.

This case only managed to show people that joking online can get you in a serious trouble. Which just means that people who actually want to commit crimes like that are now less likely to talk about it online. It doesn't actually stop anyone from doing anything. My god, America is becoming a bigger shithole with each passing day.

I agree but you can't really call threatening to kill people a joke. Its not funny in any way. True he might not have meant it but there is no reason that anyone should ever say anything like this no matter how serious they are. Especially now after 3 or 4 mass shootings in the past what two years?

the thing is how do they tell if he is taking the piss or not?

he gave a time and a location meaning there was a short ammount of time to act.

they either act on the information or not. the line alone does not paint the picture of a nutter but the other things taken together make it a lot darker. if they had a longer time frame then maybe they could have gone slower or been less direct but seeing as he was probally posting after school so there was all of what 12-16 hours till it might start.

i dont know how many of you have seen the case of a couple of nutters who wanted to go abduct, rob and then kill a singer called Joss Stone. now they never managed to pull it off they were spotted by her neighbours and the police were called. they had all the stuff they would need to carry it out but they never managed to.
the only difference between these two cases imo is that they were caught just before they could commit the crime with wepons in hand, this guy was one stage earlier and had not picked up the guns he needed yet. it would take very little to move from one to the other.

p.s. i call those guys nutters as they assumed that as a singer who had been at a few partys and preformed for the royals she was somehow a close friend of the prices as opposed to one step up from a court jester.

IanDavis:

The transcript provided to the local police reveal that Frongillo also made anti-Semitic comments and drew a "Nazi symbol" in-game.

Oh snap, I hope no one ever takes a look at my old Farmville farm...

OT: I know lawyers are generally regarded as a slimy bunch, but I don't know how anyone can dismiss 'I'm going to shoot my school up tomorrow' as just a 'harmless jest'.

You see this? This is why whenever I go out argue with people in "harmless" places (eg. 4chan and the youtube comments section (more the latter than the former)) I always avoid stuff such as what this kid was doing. I always keep the stuff on topics other than stuff like this and never refer to myself doing anything.

Father Time:
Not really. You know those scumbags who threatened South Park over muhammad, they structured their threat in vague enough language such that it was legal. Peace of mind be damned

Except that it's explicitly illegal to threaten someone with violence.

That doesn't necessarily mean one can't find a loophole to wiggle around the law, but the spirit of the law most definitely is as I said.

I'll keep an eye out on this. At the moment this seems completely ridiculous to me. I guess he forgot to preface that with... "I'm shooting up my school tomorrow. Jk."

Desert Punk:

Abandon4093:

Desert Punk:

Who has been sentenced so far exactly? He made a credible threat, and had the means and opportunity to carry out that threat, so he has been arrested while the investigation is underway.

With a bail of 50 grand.

That's ludicrous when dealing with a case where no actual crime has been committed.

And get off the means opportunity shite, that virtually applies to anyone who could make that threat in the US. If he owned weapons in a country where they are controlled, you might have a point. But his father owning a gun in the US is hardly damning evidence.

Also, I just looked at the article again. This happened in ENGLAND. Where you know...guns are 'controlled' ect?

So uh...what was that about me not having a point?

The Tibballs:
I'm not to sure how to feel about this, because who hasn't said "I would love to burn this school down" or "I'll fucking kill you"??
saying you're going to do something or even claiming you've done something is not/should not be a crime... Up to a point that is, if he had actual plans and/or had done other preparations to commit the crime then fine, lock him up, but if it was just him blowing off steam or even wishing/thinking about doing it then they should maybe give him a psychological test and send him on his way.

And to those advocating locking him up for thinking something, I didn't know thinking something was a crime.

A) He said "I'm shooting up my school tomorrow" that is a bit beyond idle fantasising. That is telling people you are planning on doing something.

B) He didnt think it. He was telling people what he was going to do. Telling people your plans to commit a crime is...surprise... a crime!

Ok then, watch this then.
I'm going on a killing spree tomorrow at my local maternity ward, I'll swim in the blood of new born babies and eat their faces off.

Now I have both the means and the opportunity to do these things, but without actual evidence of me planning to or committing an actual crime, I should not be arrested nor charged with a crime, because wishing something or wanting something to be in a free and civilised country is not and should never be a crime.

Abandon4093:

Desert Punk:

Abandon4093:

With a bail of 50 grand.

That's ludicrous when dealing with a case where no actual crime has been committed.

And get off the means opportunity shite, that virtually applies to anyone who could make that threat in the US. If he owned weapons in a country where they are controlled, you might have a point. But his father owning a gun in the US is hardly damning evidence.

Also, I just looked at the article again. This happened in ENGLAND. Where you know...guns are 'controlled' ect?

Then how did his father legally own guns? And how was the bail 50,000 Dollars?

Either some information has been bungled up here or the entire story is bullshit.

New England is a weird place, where everything seems to be named identical to English locations. I was pretty confused myself, but if you look at the original story, it's actually in North Oxford, Massachusetts. They even mention his home address, which is totally legal but still really creepy.

So what exactly is the proper response to someone threatening to shoot up a school? Christ people, he wasn't charged with murder, he was charged with threatening to commit a crime, which he DID.

If nobody reported him, or the police didn't do anything, what if he was serious?

Agayek:

Father Time:
Not really. You know those scumbags who threatened South Park over muhammad, they structured their threat in vague enough language such that it was legal. Peace of mind be damned

Except that it's explicitly illegal to threaten someone with violence.

That doesn't necessarily mean one can't find a loophole to wiggle around the law, but the spirit of the law most definitely is as I said.

What I'm saying is that yes it's illegal to make threats. But in determining what is legally a threat, peace of mind doesn't come into it.

Personally, I'm quite glad this was taken as seriously as it was, by the players, the company and the police. In the examination of many massacres or attempted massacres, post event, it seems evidence is found of admissions being made through various online sources. While not everyone who makes such comments online is going to go out and follow up on their threats or comments, there is pretty clear evidence out there that some people who do make these comments do actually follow through. Also, given that an actual arrest was performed and charges laid, it's pretty likely that the police felt they had enough evidence to proceed.

CardinalPiggles:

knight steel:
I don't know how to feel,on one hand this could have prevented a tragedy and the guys sounds horrible..........but on the other hand being arrested for an online comment and brought to trial,sounds really-really-really invasive I mean does that mean that someone who say's "I'm so angry I could kill someone" in the spur of the moment between friends can be arrested?

Difference is your example is a cliche at this point and would hardly be taken seriously.

Saying "I'm going to shoot up my school tomorrow" is an entirely different matter. It is supposed to invoke fear into people, and saying that he is going to do it tomorrow hints that he is actually planning it.

Also the fact that his household even has guns justifies the lawful action taken in my opinion. If he had no immediate access to firearms he probably would have gotten off a little lighter. Maybe a mark on his record and a fine or something.

If it was (let's not forget the Nazi symbols and anti Jew comments) they were off handed comments to make himself 'look cool' or whatever, then in my opinion he needs to be taught a lesson for it anyway. I'm pretty sure freedom of speech doesn't protect someone against racist abuse.

But what comment are enough to consider "serious" and by what standard do we measure them?
As I said I'm torn mostly over how far the action should go-keep an eye on the person and confiscate weapons-sounds fine,but a permanent mark on his record/house arrest?
I'm just asking for some guidelines is all.

I for one am glad that he was at the very least reported. Even if the chances of him actually meaning to do it are slim, is it honestly worth risking the lives of innocents for it? Just look at it this way: What's worse, this douchebag being arrested for a crime he wasn't actually planning (This being the worst case scenario) to commit or another shooting? The response from the law doesn't seem that overblown either. What I'm getting from the article is they're investigating whether it was a credible threat (I.E. if he could've done it if he meant to) and whether it was an actual threat (I.E. if he actually meant to). As long as he isn't put in jail for a crime he didn't even mean to commit, I think this is reasonable. Plus, this way people may finally realize: No, the internet is NOT in fact anonymous. Everything you say on the internet can, with enough effort, be tracked back to you, and in some cases, used against you. The internet was a joke ten, fifteen years ago. Now it's a serious communication network, and is to be taken as seriously as other communication networks.

Abandon4093:

Desert Punk:

Abandon4093:

If we're going to start sentencing people with crimes they might commit, then we're gonna be here a long time.

Who has been sentenced so far exactly? He made a credible threat, and had the means and opportunity to carry out that threat, so he has been arrested while the investigation is underway.

With a bail of 50 grand.

That's ludicrous when dealing with a case where no actual crime has been committed.

And get off the means opportunity shite, that virtually applies to anyone who could make that threat in the US. If he owned weapons in a country where they are controlled, you might have a point. But his father owning a gun in the US is hardly damning evidence.

Binnsyboy:

piinyouri:
Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoa.
Wait, he was arrested for not actually doing anything?
I've now read this article slowly about 4 times and if someone could correct me that would be wonderful but it doesnt seem to me he actually did anything, yet was arrested.

I mean, not the most savory character, yeah okay.
But saying you are going to do something, and actually doing it are still two different things nowadays aren't they?

"Conspiracy to commit a crime" has been an arresting offense for quite a while.

More importantly, 50 grand bail? And it was paid?

Shit, his parents must be rolling in it.

Uh, you realize you only pay 10% of a bond price to get out right?

Eri:

Uh, you realize you only pay 10% of a bond price to get out right?

Point being that the bail sets the tone for the trial.

Higher bonds are usually set to make a statement.

You also get the money back when you go to court (providing you pay the full amount and don't use a bondsman), but that doesn't mean that the amount set is of no relevance.

Xarathox:

Abandon4093:

Devoneaux:

I'm sorry, but can you point to where it says that the First amendment protects your right to threaten someone? Serious question, because I am pretty sure it doesn't protect your right to threaten someone's life.

I didn't say anything about the first amendment.

I'm just pointing out that some stupid kid saying stupid shit online isn't really a threat.

Investigate the claims, sure. That's only smart. But claiming he had means and opportunity because his dad owns a gun and he goes to school.

Well that's just fucking silly.

You did say he didn't commit a crime, which is factually false. Threats of violence in the US is a crime. Whether or not someone will go through with such threats is irrelevant, as they can be arrested for stating such intent.

Is it though? Is saying childish shit on an MMO really a crime? As far as I'm concerned, unless someone has some real proof that the idiot was actually going to do anything, then he was just a stupid kid trying to get some attention by acting like a tool online.

Desert Punk:

So uh...what was that about me not having a point?

IanDavis:

New England is a weird place, where everything seems to be named identical to English locations. I was pretty confused myself, but if you look at the original story, it's actually in North Oxford, Massachusetts. They even mention his home address, which is totally legal but still really creepy.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Thought it wasn't making much sense.

piinyouri:
Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoa.
Wait, he was arrested for not actually doing anything?
I've now read this article slowly about 4 times and if someone could correct me that would be wonderful but it doesnt seem to me he actually did anything, yet was arrested.

I mean, not the most savory character, yeah okay.
But saying you are going to do something, and actually doing it are still two different things nowadays aren't they?

Now hang on. If I had access to firearms and threatened to come and shoot you, you would go to the police, correct? I'm not saying he deserves jail time, but taking society's current mindset into consideration, comments like this have to be investigated.

Father Time:

SpAc3man:
What a dickface. He may or may not have been taking the piss but he needed to be made an example of.

If he was just joking then why does he need to be made an example of?

Because there are unacceptable ways of behaving in society and people need to be shown that we will not tolerate this shit.
The authorities had no idea if it was a joke or not so they acted in the proper way. He will likely be given a slap on the wrist and told to stop being a little shit but at least people have been given the message that threats like this will have repercussions.

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