Update: Beta Tester Leaks Elder Scrolls Online Gameplay Footage

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I didn't manage to watch the footage before it was hit by copyright.

With that said, I have stated previously that they really need to be careful with their pricing model. Risking subscription in this day and age means killing your game off from what I've seen the past few years. SWTOR was the only MMO to fail because of this along with the fact that it was WoW with a SW skin on it.

I've been playing WoW since the beginning and no game that comes out will make me quit the game completely. I have too much time invested in my characters to leave them. Changing the gameplay from auto attack to more "action" like most MMO's I've seen do (TERA etc) will not change my mind.

You either go the GW2 payment style (buy to play) or Free to Play with microtransactions. It seems to be the only way it might work. The ammount of people who are willing to give 15$ / month won't be that great to be worth it. You have more chance of them buying vanity items which is why is very risky because you don't want to become pay to win.

Yuuki:

But then, who am I fooling with a Bethesda vs Blizzard comparison, those two companies aren't even in the same galaxy when it comes to quality control :P

Diablo 3..... Ya I'd say they have some issues with quality control. In fact, I didn't realize there were still people who put them on such a high pedestal.

OT: I was completely uninterested when this game was announced and that remains the case after seeing the comments in this thread (it won't let me watch the video). I honestly can't think of a better way to ruin an ES experience than to put other people into it with you.

Sadly, the video's down, so I can't watch.

RedDeadFred:

Yuuki:

But then, who am I fooling with a Bethesda vs Blizzard comparison, those two companies aren't even in the same galaxy when it comes to quality control :P

Diablo 3..... Ya I'd say they have some issues with quality control. In fact, I didn't realize there were still people who put them on such a high pedestal.

OT: I was completely uninterested when this game was announced and that remains the case after seeing the comments in this thread (it won't let me watch the video). I honestly can't think of a better way to ruin an ES experience than to put other people into it with you.

Every Blizzard launch is like that.

While I'm not excusing Blizzard for Diablo 3 and totally agree they were fucking assholes for pulling such a dick move (a move I didn't think Blizzard was retarded enough to pull), the fact remains that D3 relies on online servers and therefore a huge number of people aren't going to be able to play on launch day.

Other than their immensely server-breaking launches (which also happen to break records usually) no other company has the amount of quality control and customer satisfaction rates as Blizzard.

Bethesda games on the other hand are renowned shoddy QC, I shouldn't have to remind you of the running joke of people discussing their favorite glitches in Elder Scrolls games. The games are ultimately fun, but there you go.

The companies can't be compared in terms of size, history, games made, fanbase, etc lol...totally different levels.

DarkhoIlow:
I didn't manage to watch the footage before it was hit by copyright.

With that said, I have stated previously that they really need to be careful with their pricing model. Risking subscription in this day and age means killing your game off from what I've seen the past few years. SWTOR was the only MMO to fail because of this along with the fact that it was WoW with a SW skin on it.

I've been playing WoW since the beginning and no game that comes out will make me quit the game completely. I have too much time invested in my characters to leave them. Changing the gameplay from auto attack to more "action" like most MMO's I've seen do (TERA etc) will not change my mind.

You either go the GW2 payment style (buy to play) or Free to Play with microtransactions. It seems to be the only way it might work. The ammount of people who are willing to give 15$ / month won't be that great to be worth it. You have more chance of them buying vanity items which is why is very risky because you don't want to become pay to win.

It's not just the pricing model that could kill them, but it's certainly a big problem for them.

Their market is already pretty split because:
1) It's supposed to be an ES game (which will exclude some players from the start, as they don't like ES)
2) It's built to resemble Skyrim (which will cut that player base down a bit, as some people hate Skyrim)
3) It's an MMO (which will cut that player base down some more, as some players didn't want an MMO)

It's sort of why sci-fi MMOs don't seem to do as well a lot of the time: they're sub-divided between people who like MMOs, people who like sci-fi settings, and people who like RPGs. The overlap is there, but it's not as big as a more generalized medieval-style fantasy MMORPG. So TESO may have some problems attracting people unless they can present a pretty unique product, and....the footage in question doesn't seem to imply that they have.

That said, if GW2 hadn't gone buy-to-play, and if numerous other big MMOs of late hadn't switched over to free-to-play, I guarantee that TESO would be a subscription game with the same pricing scheme as WoW. The game has been in development for five years now and has cost a TON of money to make, and we still haven't heard affirmative word how it'll be priced. I honestly expect them to go subscription.

The fact that the devs have repeatedly refused to even discuss pricing of the game when asked directly by reporters suggests to me that they're still hoping to squeeze out a subscription model, but are probing the market to see if it will work out for them. SWTOR did the same thing, they kept quiet about pricing for a while and hoped that maybe people would get hooked by watching their leaks of in-game footage. I think TESO is trying to get people to commit to the game, hoping that they can get enough "devotees" to go for a subscription model. But I think if they go that route, they're going to be handicapping themselves tremendously.

Yuuki:

RedDeadFred:

Yuuki:

But then, who am I fooling with a Bethesda vs Blizzard comparison, those two companies aren't even in the same galaxy when it comes to quality control :P

Diablo 3..... Ya I'd say they have some issues with quality control. In fact, I didn't realize there were still people who put them on such a high pedestal.

OT: I was completely uninterested when this game was announced and that remains the case after seeing the comments in this thread (it won't let me watch the video). I honestly can't think of a better way to ruin an ES experience than to put other people into it with you.

Every Blizzard launch is like that.

While I'm not excusing Blizzard for Diablo 3 and totally agree they were fucking assholes for pulling such a dick move (a move I didn't think Blizzard was retarded enough to pull), the fact remains that D3 relies on online servers and therefore a huge number of people aren't going to be able to play on launch day.

Other than their immensely server-breaking launches (which also happen to break records usually) no other company has the amount of quality control and customer satisfaction rates as Blizzard.

I know they generally are more polished but Diablo 3 pissed me off in more ways than just the launch. Real money auction house combined with the huge jump in difficulty when you get to Inferno and the ridiculously low "useful" (you get good drops but so often they aren't for you class) make it feel almost necessary to use the auction house. Granted, I haven't played in several months so maybe they've altered some of this stuff. It just seemed like no matter how much you grinded for gear, the chances of you actually getting something remotely close to what you are looking for was too low to bother anymore.

Steven Bogos:
The gameplay segments that follow look strikingly similar to 2011's Skyrim, wrapped up with a couple of new MMO elements.

Steven Bogos:
The game looks and plays almost exactly like Skyrim does, but with an MMO-style UI draped over it.

Steven Bogos:
Honestly, apart from the fully voiced NPCs, this game looks like another horribly generic run-of-the-mill World Of Warcraft style MMO.

I'm confused. Does the game look and play like Skyrim, or a horribly generic MMO? hile perhaps not polar opposites, those two definitions are not very compatible.

(The only inclusively logical conclusion is that horribly generic MMOs plays exactly like Skyrim, but with "an MMO-style UI draped over it".)

piinyouri:

As I scrolled throughout he comments my mouth dropped lower and lower.
I honestly was shocked people are saying this looks generic.
I'm just reiterating some of the things you said but not many MMO's have
Full combat movement
That style of a stealth system or hell, a stealth system at all
Organic quest acquisition (as organic as it;'s ever been anyway)

I would also add that it looks...well like an Elder Scrolls game.
That's a fairly good example of what Hammerfell would look like I imagine.

Holy fuck I'm excited about an MMO.
Someone, slap me.

You pretty much just described Guild Wars 2. What reason would I have for picking this up over that? Guild Wars 2 doesn't have a sub fee for sure, we already know that. And has more content, because it's been out longer. Also it has even more organic quest acquisition.

RedDeadFred:
I know they generally are more polished but Diablo 3 pissed me off in more ways than just the launch. Real money auction house combined with the huge jump in difficulty when you get to Inferno and the ridiculously low "useful" (you get good drops but so often they aren't for you class) make it feel almost necessary to use the auction house. Granted, I haven't played in several months so maybe they've altered some of this stuff. It just seemed like no matter how much you grinded for gear, the chances of you actually getting something remotely close to what you are looking for was too low to bother anymore.

Those were intentional game decisions made on a grand scale, not glitches/quality control stuff. I'm sure Blizzard have learned a very harsh lesson, it has me shaking my head because we can't afford to have an iconic developer like Blizzard lose their way when the whole game industry is on the verge of some kind of economic collapse. But yeah, I maintain their QC really is one of the best :S

Anyway why are we talking about D3 when WoW is more relevant to this discussion, the game that Blizzard is the most well-known for...for now lets just assume they're the guys behind Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft series, Warcraft series and WoW...D3 never happened! Ha! :P

I cannot believe they're trying to push this out of the door this year to be honest. I'm ALL for an Elder Scrolls MMO but rushing the process will ensure it's forgotten within a month. And so far... nothing new and BETTER brought to the table...

The Elder Scrolls transition into a classbased MMO, while Pathfinder (D&D) transitions into a skillbased MMO. Some weird shit right here.

it's shaping up to be another run of the mill MMO?!

as many have already said. 'called it'

I never understand why people say "It's only beta, things will change." I've played several MMOs during beta and after launch and literally nothing changes about the core of the game.

Rainforce:
sadly, I must agree: generic MMO pretty much right here.
why are people so afraid to stray from the WoW formula?
why the HELL can't they just make it more like the other TES games, just scaled to MMO level (slower leveling, harder prices/etc.)? not to mention the apparent inability to bring graphics to a niveau that doesn't scream like "from 6 years ago" (or at least make the graphics more scalable so people with hardware from 10 years ago can still play it)
*sigh* will give it a try either way. Maybe gameplay and graphics is not everything to a game : O

...get rid of the graphics and gameplay, and you've basically got a MUD. You can find MP MUDs for free, there's even a Counter-Strike MUD.

Honestly though, this is one of the few games where I can genuinely say that whoever wanted this has to purely be a very niche audience, because nothing they have presented so far looks substantial in any way.

SonOfVoorhees:
I played WOW for a month and it was mind numbingly boring, have no idea how people get hooked on it.

What it comes down to is guilds...... Yes the gameplay is horribly tedious and repetitive. But the game is there to supplement the social interaction between the players, the same reason card games exist ( something to do while sitting around a table having a conversation). Through the social aspects of the game you develop friendships and rivalries that cause you to want to improve your character, which means you have to play more.... and more....... and more...... THAT is how it happens.

I know because I played WoW for 2 months, and like you couldn't figure out what the big deal was, then I decided to go back and give it another shot with a different class and race, this time I fell in with a guild and was hooked. I left to go to another MMO, came back the guild was totally different, so I went back to the other MMO that had the guild I had been with since before the game had launched.

Rawbeard:
The Elder Scrolls transition into a classbased MMO, while Pathfinder (D&D) transitions into a skillbased MMO. Some weird shit right here.

In fairness, only Skyrim didn't have classes.

Yeah, that's not what skillbased means. Pathfinder will also have classes, similar like Morrowind had classes. It's still a skillbased MMO. TSO looks like classchoice determines the skills you can have, ever, not which skills you start out with.

synobal:

Chessrook44:

synobal:
Is it so bad to want a fantasy version of EVE online?

YES.

Waiting days to upgrade one skill at a time... bloody idiocy for an MMO, that's what I say!

Plus we're already FILLED with fantasy MMOs. We need more sci-fi MMOs out there.

Meh anyone who has played eve knows that 'leveling up your skills' is not the primary goal in the game. Your skills are just things so you can be better at a particular aspect of the game. Sure having low skill points sucks but once you're competent in what ever area of the game you're interested in you typically are just training for an extra few percent in something.

The problem is most people don't know how to focus on a goal and work towards it, instead they bounce all over the place and generally end up sucking at everything.

Actually, with me, I'm a completionist and I play hard. I do everything, and I complete games quickly. So when my completion is forced into limitation... i.e., say, stuck at level 3 for 2 days because there's a time limit, when I could have gained 10 levels at my natural progression speed in that time... frustrates me.

Rainforce:
sadly, I must agree: generic MMO pretty much right here.
why are people so afraid to stray from the WoW formula?
why the HELL can't they just make it more like the other TES games, just scaled to MMO level (slower leveling, harder prices/etc.)? not to mention the apparent inability to bring graphics to a niveau that doesn't scream like "from 6 years ago" (or at least make the graphics more scalable so people with hardware from 10 years ago can still play it)
*sigh* will give it a try either way. Maybe gameplay and graphics is not everything to a game : O

10 year old hardware? Seriously? Thats like asking for games to be produced for the PS2/XBOX/Gamecube. Technology moves ahead, game developers won't waste time making games to work with aged hardware because its just not profitable to them.

Akichi Daikashima:

Rainforce:
sadly, I must agree: generic MMO pretty much right here.
why are people so afraid to stray from the WoW formula?
why the HELL can't they just make it more like the other TES games, just scaled to MMO level (slower leveling, harder prices/etc.)? not to mention the apparent inability to bring graphics to a niveau that doesn't scream like "from 6 years ago" (or at least make the graphics more scalable so people with hardware from 10 years ago can still play it)
*sigh* will give it a try either way. Maybe gameplay and graphics is not everything to a game : O

WoW sells like crazy; people "clone" what's popular.

Same reason for the influx of CoD-like FPS' in the recent years.

I still might check it (TESO) but only because it's Elder Scrolls.

I still don't get it though. Yes, WoW is popular, but the utter failure of any MMO that tried to copy it is so blatantly obvious, I'm amazed that people who pitch these ideas don't just get smacked across the face with their severance package. Hell, even WoW itself is dying and losing players and the only reason it's still kicking is that people made too much of a connection there with others to just leave it for good. Basically every game that copies WoW tells their potential customers "hey, how about leaving that game, all your progress and the majority of friends you have there for a cheap copy of the game you're playing right now?".

Vrach:
[quote="Akichi Daikashima" post="7.405749.16862771"]

I still don't get it though. Yes, WoW is popular, but the utter failure of any MMO that tried to copy it is so blatantly obvious, I'm amazed that people who pitch these ideas don't just get smacked across the face with their severance package. Hell, even WoW itself is dying and losing players and the only reason it's still kicking is that people made too much of a connection there with others to just leave it for good. Basically every game that copies WoW tells their potential customers "hey, how about leaving that game, all your progress and the majority of friends you have there for a cheap copy of the game you're playing right now?".

Well, the fact that it'll flop isn't entirely a problem. The ultimate goal of making an MMO is getting a profit out of it, so if you come out in the positive by the time you close doors, you're good. I don't condone the attitude, but that's pretty much the reason MMOs, modern FPSes, or apparently MOBAs, even exist. It's not about winning, it's about not losing.

sid:

Vrach:
[quote="Akichi Daikashima" post="7.405749.16862771"]

I still don't get it though. Yes, WoW is popular, but the utter failure of any MMO that tried to copy it is so blatantly obvious, I'm amazed that people who pitch these ideas don't just get smacked across the face with their severance package. Hell, even WoW itself is dying and losing players and the only reason it's still kicking is that people made too much of a connection there with others to just leave it for good. Basically every game that copies WoW tells their potential customers "hey, how about leaving that game, all your progress and the majority of friends you have there for a cheap copy of the game you're playing right now?".

Well, the fact that it'll flop isn't entirely a problem. The ultimate goal of making an MMO is getting a profit out of it, so if you come out in the positive by the time you close doors, you're good. I don't condone the attitude, but that's pretty much the reason MMOs, modern FPSes, or apparently MOBAs, even exist. It's not about winning, it's about not losing.

So you're saying these things actually make money? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. MMOs are among the most expensive of games and they cost money to keep going. I can't see how a failure of an MMO (as most MMOs are these days) would even break even.

edit:
Also, I'd be willing to put money down that if they came out with a crappy MMO that tried a different formula than WoW, they'd make more money. Considerably more people would be willing to try something that is new than something that they already know is going to suck.

amaranth_dru:

Rainforce:
sadly, I must agree: generic MMO pretty much right here.
why are people so afraid to stray from the WoW formula?
why the HELL can't they just make it more like the other TES games, just scaled to MMO level (slower leveling, harder prices/etc.)? not to mention the apparent inability to bring graphics to a niveau that doesn't scream like "from 6 years ago" (or at least make the graphics more scalable so people with hardware from 10 years ago can still play it)
*sigh* will give it a try either way. Maybe gameplay and graphics is not everything to a game : O

10 year old hardware? Seriously? Thats like asking for games to be produced for the PS2/XBOX/Gamecube. Technology moves ahead, game developers won't waste time making games to work with aged hardware because its just not profitable to them.

you misunderstood, I implied the graphics look like from 10 years ago at parts, so I pointed out how they should improve them or at least make them more scalable, if the context requires them to be that..."bad".

Vrach:

sid:

Vrach:
[quote="Akichi Daikashima" post="7.405749.16862771"]

I still don't get it though. Yes, WoW is popular, but the utter failure of any MMO that tried to copy it is so blatantly obvious, I'm amazed that people who pitch these ideas don't just get smacked across the face with their severance package. Hell, even WoW itself is dying and losing players and the only reason it's still kicking is that people made too much of a connection there with others to just leave it for good. Basically every game that copies WoW tells their potential customers "hey, how about leaving that game, all your progress and the majority of friends you have there for a cheap copy of the game you're playing right now?".

Well, the fact that it'll flop isn't entirely a problem. The ultimate goal of making an MMO is getting a profit out of it, so if you come out in the positive by the time you close doors, you're good. I don't condone the attitude, but that's pretty much the reason MMOs, modern FPSes, or apparently MOBAs, even exist. It's not about winning, it's about not losing.

So you're saying these things actually make money? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. MMOs are among the most expensive of games and they cost money to keep going. I can't see how a failure of an MMO (as most MMOs are these days) would even break even.

Honestly, I don't know. I tried googling around some MMOs, Guild Wars made a profit for sure, so did Perfect World, but SWTOR's production cost was higher than their profits and LOTRO seems to have come out almost evenly. I can't say for sure that it's a profitable business, but why would anyone keep making them if it wasn't?

Working video still up over at PC Gamer at the time of me writing this: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/14/here-are-20-leaky-minutes-of-elder-scrolls-online-footage/

OT: Holy crap, I'm honestly really disappointed here. If this was alpha footage I'd feel better, but beta's these days being not much more than exclusive demos and server load tests, this is really kinda depressing. It's more or less a Skyrim with worse graphics and the questing system of every other MMO ever taped onto it.

Frostbite3789:

What reason would I have for picking this up over that?

If you're an Elder Scrolls fan.

sid:

Vrach:

sid:
Well, the fact that it'll flop isn't entirely a problem. The ultimate goal of making an MMO is getting a profit out of it, so if you come out in the positive by the time you close doors, you're good. I don't condone the attitude, but that's pretty much the reason MMOs, modern FPSes, or apparently MOBAs, even exist. It's not about winning, it's about not losing.

So you're saying these things actually make money? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. MMOs are among the most expensive of games and they cost money to keep going. I can't see how a failure of an MMO (as most MMOs are these days) would even break even.

Honestly, I don't know. I tried googling around some MMOs, Guild Wars made a profit for sure, so did Perfect World, but SWTOR's production cost was higher than their profits and LOTRO seems to have come out almost evenly. I can't say for sure that it's a profitable business, but why would anyone keep making them if it wasn't?

Actually I think a lot of MMO's (not just mmorpg's) are profitable, and especially after a lot of the ones that were struggling have switched to F2P models.

OT: I hope they manage to polish the gameplay before release cause it doesn't particularly good in it's current state and I think they're gonna need to shine on most fronts with this thing in order to make it long term, but thats what beta's are for and until (or if) it goes into public beta I will reserve my judgment.

Unfortunately Bethesda have quite a habit of releasing highly unpolished and even bugged games, so I'm not exactly optimistic at this point.

seriously though...a co-op mode in the existing game(s) would be amazing enough. plus a lot cheaper than building a whole MMO :/

marcooos:
Its WoW in a elder scrolls face mask

Most MMO's suffer from being like the generic MMO. They all copy each other and there isn't anything significantly unique about any of them anymore. WoW was good for a short while because Blizzard actually made things better than the industry was offering in the genre, but now to compete, they all have to copy WoW at least. And most of them likely can't afford or afford to risk doing things better than what's already been done.

At best we can expect to see a different IP in the same clone and hope that we like that particular IP best. MMOs, I find, are horrifically grindy and merely stall players to the end-game content where they stagnant and require too much multiplayer cooperation to upgrade gear intended for PVP and potentially shorter jumps for new gear when expansions come out.

piinyouri:

Frostbite3789:

What reason would I have for picking this up over that?

If you're an Elder Scrolls fan.

From what I've heard, most TES fans aren't very excited for this. In fact quite the opposite.

This kind of occured to me. Can you really blame an MMORPG for being similar to World of Warcraft? Isn't that kind of like blaming a company that makes tennis rackets for being similar in design to Wilson? It's not that they're blatantly copying anything, rather the main issue seems to be that they're the same genre. Sure, Guild Wars steps away from WoW, but only on surface level, more specifically, the art style and fluid gameplay. It still incorporates everything that WoW stands for. Just a thought, maybe the main issue with MMORPGs being shit is that MMORPG itself isn't particularly cool.

Frostbite3789:

piinyouri:

Frostbite3789:

What reason would I have for picking this up over that?

If you're an Elder Scrolls fan.

From what I've heard, most TES fans aren't very excited for this. In fact quite the opposite.

People often tend to be silly and overly cynical.
Their opinion is their opinion of course, but this is probably as best anyone could hope for a ES-MMO conversion.
As Mr.K said, there's limitations, some things are just not possible.
They've done a pretty good job within their limitations in my ever insignificant opinion.

Managed to watch the video before it was taken down and all through out watching it it reminded me of another MMO I played, I didn't make the WoW connection like some have, instead for me the whole thing looked like Age of Conan, from the character creation screen to the combat to the area looking a lot like the first time I arrived in Stygia in that game.

And those were not good comparisons!

Corven:

Hagi:
Actually pleasantly surprised by how much it's not a generic fantasy MMO.
snip

It's kinda sad that so far besides your comment, pretty much everyone else has decried this game as a WoW clone especially since most of the information we have about the game show's that it is more in line with Guild wars 2 in terms of it's gameplay mechanics.

Is that... supposed to be a good thing? Guild Wars 2 was a massive letdown and an embarrassment to ArenaNet. GW1 at least had its quality PvP content to keep the game going, but GW2 features typical awful-MMO PvP and hilariously grindy (even by MMO standards) PvE that doesn't even have an endgame. If a company wanted to copy an MMO that succeeded, they'd be far better off copying WoW than GW2.

That said, it would be better if they didn't copy ANY existing game type and simply ported what makes Elder Scrolls releases successful and engaging games into MMO format. Copying WoW at this point is pretty moot (even though it's better than copying some other games) - you aren't going to compete with it. Aside from the MMO market stagnating, you have to do new and better things to draw players away from the current monster in the arena. GW2 tried and failed, but at least it tried something new :/

Steven Bogos:
We should keep in mind that this is still early beta footage, and the game is sure to change drastically as it leads up to its release, but at the moment it doesn't quite look as epic as the teaser trailer they released a while back, when soliciting beta sign-ups.

People said the same thing about the Hellgate London beta. When a game is this far into development, what you're seeing is what you're going to get. I had preordered HL for $5, and never went to pick up my "copy" when it arrived. Sure enough, that thing floundered like a rabbit and my friends weren't even interested in it after a few weeks anyway.

I'm disappointed, but this is also what I expected with a 3rd party stepping in to try and suck up money just based on the TES name alone.

I have never played an MMO, but to me this looks good. I want to see all these new environments and travel across more of Tamriel so i think I'll pick it up. I dislike how you can't play in first person though. Seemed to have a very Skyrim feel to it which is good.

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