Dragon's Crown Designer Apologizes for Exaggerated Characters

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erttheking:

WanderingFool:

erttheking:

We criticized him because he created something that we didn't like. When someone puts something out for the public to consume, it is open to criticism.

Are you one of those people that stood by Bioware's original ME3 endings, and felt they shouldnt have to change it for the fans? Cuz if you were, then I may die happy...

I was one of the people who criticized both the old ending and the new. Frankly they both sucked. Also when the dipshit head of the creator team writes the ending by himself while locking the rest of the team out, then really pulling the "artistic integrity" card is laughable because your artistic integrity is already dead in a ditch.

Ah, so we were basically on the same side of that little debate (I personally feel that Casey Hudson should be fired... out of a cannon... into the sun... for that shit.) But it still would have been humorous, from a hypocritical perspective.

Stop being a chld. Everyone whines about something, and honestly when comapred to the art design of the male to the female, unless he's Bierotic...

I say it's a unique art style. One I don't care for myself but buddy stand up for your work.

Don't be a bitch like most politicans who say something strong then apologize four hours later cause the puss brigade couldn't handle it.

erttheking:

Calamity:
Well Congrats internet, you just made a man apologize for creating the art he wants to create.

I really hate you.

We criticized him because he created something that we didn't like. When someone puts something out for the public to consume, it is open to criticism.

Even you must admit, this whole thing has jumped way past the point of "criticism".

Both extremes of this argument have poisoned any sort of good intentions anyone had for talking about this.

Calamity:

erttheking:

Calamity:
Well Congrats internet, you just made a man apologize for creating the art he wants to create.

I really hate you.

We criticized him because he created something that we didn't like. When someone puts something out for the public to consume, it is open to criticism.

Even you must admit, this whole thing has jumped way past the point of "criticism".

Both extremes of this argument have poisoned any sort of good intentions anyone had for talking about this.

There's always going to be extremists. I'm not going to keep my criticisms bottled up because someone else goes too far.

Everyone needs to get over it. You can't stifle everyones creative design because it may offend someone, somewhere. All of his characters are equally exaggerated.

What? There aren't enough things going wrong in the entertainment industry alone that we have to attack the character designs of someone's game? What a pathetic thing to get upset over.

This will sell games. Simple as that. If a giant butt blowing a juicy poo bubble as a main character would sell a game, good for them! Shut up and buy it or pass. Get upset about companies trying to screw you over through microtransactions or lying in game trailers.

P.S. Butt Bubble Extreme on Xbox Infinity in Fall of 2013. Gaming that gives a sh*t!

Yes, he should apologize because nothing in history has ever had an exaggerated art style. Yep, nothing at all.

JemothSkarii:
I'm amazed nobody has posted this, yay, means I can be of use in a thread. This is an interesting post from someone somewhere and it makes good sense to me (slight NSFW in the form of Ancient Statues)):

Sooo...yeah, that's my thought, apologizing for it was kind of silly.

I completely agree with the sentiment of making Necromancy something that's not evil for evil's sake because EVIL. Apparently writers are unaware of pretty much any incarnation of death or death-related beings being the most likeable amongst their higher peers. The fertility and Necromancy combo even comes up with Ishtar and her repeated threats to (admittedly not in a motherly way) unleash armies of the undead on the world if people obstruct her in whatever she's doing.

Unfortunately, that doesn't explain why the Sorceress had to turn her staff into a make-shift stripper pole. None of the other characters brought up in that image are in an overtly sexy pose, they just have large breasts; though that could just be because of the images chosen and there could easily be images of those characters trying out as pinup girls.

I really don't like to pull out this accusation, but this really seems like the kind of thing Kotaku is doing just for hits. The author took a relatively obscure game, made a huge fuss about it, and didn't shut up about it until he got a response from the developer that wasn't negative. It doesn't help that Kotaku doesn't have a very good reputation in the first place.

LifeCharacter:
snip

Hmm, maybe it's just that image, but that seems to be about the right size for a staff...unless it has something to do with a gameplay video. Then I'd have to check it out myself. Thinking about it you could make anything into a pin-up, even say...George Bush :P.

FFS, he shouldn't be apologising. What happened to artistic integrity? We live in a culture where people are eager to get offended about things. Well, I say to those people: Go fuck yourself. :P

Reeve:
FFS, he shouldn't be apologising. What happened to artistic integrity? We live in a culture where people are eager to get offended about things. Well, I say to those people: Go fuck yourself. :P

You know, as someone who didn't like the design, I'd rather not.

JemothSkarii:

LifeCharacter:
snip

Hmm, maybe it's just that image, but that seems to be about the right size for a staff...unless it has something to do with a gameplay video. Then I'd have to check it out myself. Thinking about it you could make anything into a pin-up, even say...George Bush :P.

Oh no no, the size of the staff isn't really the issue, it's the grinding of her ass on it just for the sake of the sexy pose that separates the Sorceress from the other, well endowed Necromancers.

And it really depends upon which George Bush you're referring to.

Seventh Actuality:
You can shout 'STYLIZED' as loud as you like but it does nothing to address the real issue, that the men are designed to look powerful while the women are designed to be wanked over. I'd probably give this game a pass on the basis that all those images (with the exception of the sorceress) look too grotesque to be titillating for anyone, but I've heard the same bullshit used to defend too much actual sexism and the designer guy is acting like a child besides so I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You know...... I'm going to be absolutely honest with you here and say that those women are NOT designed to be "wanked over". Just.... just... no.....................................

I would also contest the idea that the women AREN'T designed to look powerful. I mean... just LOOK at them. You're honestly going to tell me they don't look like they could crack your skull open by PLACING IT BETWEEN THEIR THIGHS?!

That being said, sexist... yes... it is. lol.

For some reason people seem to think that the issue is that people are getting offended or hurt by the fact that a woman's being sexualized. Or at the very least they seem to be under the impression that's the issue. Which it absolutely isn't. It's just how prolific the trend is. This work alone? Strikes me as immature and kind of pathetic, but nothing beyond that. It's the difference between a fuss being made about a black man being killed in a game and someone coming up and saying, "Uh, hey... it looks like you're ONLY killing black guys". Obviously it's not nearly to that degree, but it hints that there might be some reason behind that trend. In the case of games, it just shows that they're intended to be played by straight guys.

Sure, it might not be harming anyone in particular, but I think it's an unfortunate trend that basically shoves the message "Oh, I'm sorry, this isn't for you" in the face of anyone not being pandered to with it. Which is fine in porn, but I'd hope for a bit more maturity than that with games.

And the figure isn't just exaggerated like all of the others. As I mentioned in another thread about this the real issue is the fact that she's sliding a staff between her butt cheeks and pressing a skull into her breasts. It shows exactly what they wanted to go for with this character's presentation

OT: The artist shouldn't have apologized, nor should have had to apologize about the character design. That one individual design isn't the problem, it's just kind of immature

LifeCharacter:

JemothSkarii:

LifeCharacter:
snip

Hmm, maybe it's just that image, but that seems to be about the right size for a staff...unless it has something to do with a gameplay video. Then I'd have to check it out myself. Thinking about it you could make anything into a pin-up, even say...George Bush :P.

Oh no no, the size of the staff isn't really the issue, it's the grinding of her ass on it just for the sake of the sexy pose that separates the Sorceress from the other, well endowed Necromancers.

And it really depends upon which George Bush you're referring to.

Senior obviously :P

Didn't you know? The butt is the most magical area of your body. Farts? That's you losing your magical essence because you don't use it enough.

In all seriousness, the pose is certainly...thought provoking, but I don't have issues with the design aside.

This game looks different; KILL IT FIRE FOR NOT CONFORMING TO MY STANDARDS BLARRRG!
Much sarcasm was had that day. I remember a dude called fucking Picasso that drew differently to everybody else and they called him a genius, but you know can't have that attitude elsewhere.

The artist doesn't have to apologize for his style, if people dont like it there are thousands of other games for them to play. Im getting a bit tired of this knee jerk feminism, guy can't draw a girl with big tits and be called a mysoginst. News flash: just because a guy likes a girl with large features, doesn't mean he thinks her only skill is making sandwhiches.

PunkRex:

We need more class in gaming politics.

...And that my friends is the moral of the story. We don't need to ban the game. We don't need tens of hundreds of scoffing, snarling comments to the theme of 'feminazis' or 'sexist'. Or indeed stupid inflammatory article attempting to initiate flamewars.

We just all need a little class.

Songblade:
This game looks kind of neat... I like the art style. A few characters of both genders are exaggerated - but nothing we haven't seen before. I also understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

The reality is, if it offends you and aren't into it, don't buy it. Same way I'm not into and don't buy firemen calendars.

Kelthurin:
Honestly, who is still offended by stuff like this?
That's bloody retarded.

People with a lot of free time on their hands and the ability to make people bad about themselves.

So are no female characters allowed to be sex appeal anymore?

Listen, I'm all for strong female characters. I think they're awesome and still not common enough. But it seems like if any game has even a single scantily clad female character, the hate-brigade starts up.

Also, I always see people arguing that characters like the Sorceress are sexual fantasies while characters like the Fighter are power fantasies. How does one create a stereotypically attractive male character for fan-service purposes?

Because I don't think the usual sarcastic hypothetical of "put a dude in a thong" would actually be appealing to the general female population.

ANImaniac89:
My God.....that beard.

I fucking reckon, that guy must sweat testosterone to grow a beard that manly. Look at that fucking thing!

image

Probably has to shave it with his battle axe.

MrHide-Patten:
This game looks different; KILL IT FIRE FOR NOT CONFORMING TO MY STANDARDS BLARRRG!
Much sarcasm was had that day. I remember a dude called fucking Picasso that drew differently to everybody else and they called him a genius, but you know can't have that attitude elsewhere.

The artist doesn't have to apologize for his style, if people dont like it there are thousands of other games for them to play. Im getting a bit tired of this knee jerk feminism, guy can't draw a girl with big tits and be called a mysoginst. News flash: just because a guy likes a girl with large features, doesn't mean he thinks her only skill is making sandwhiches.

I don't think it's necessarily that he's drawing differently that's drawing all of this ire (though I have seen a few people refer to it as unappealing which is a perfectly valid opinion), it's what he drew. While the massive tits probably added some extra fuel to the fire, having the staff precariously perched right where it is and adding some nice creases to show the shape of her ass are also a part of it, along with her style of clothing being nonexistent above the mandatory nipple coverage.

That is, of course, only with the Sorceress, and, while the Ranger seems okay, the Barbarian woman has precisely seven pieces of clothing; a pair of gloves, a pair of boots, an arm band, and a chainmail bikini set. Sure, Barbarians don't wear lots of armor, but that doesn't translate to covering nothing but the parts that need censoring.

Compatriot Block:
So are no female characters allowed to be sex appeal anymore?

This always comes up, and no one save maybe the occasional anti-sex idiot no one agrees with ever says that all example of sex appeal must be removed, just that they'd like something else other than straight sex appeal for once.

Listen, I'm all for strong female characters. I think they're awesome and still not common enough. But it seems like if any game has even a single scantily clad female character, the hate-brigade starts up.

There's three female characters in this set. One is in a reasonable set of clothing. Another is wearing gloves, boots, and a bikini. And the last is wearing the lower half of a dress and a weird blouse that stops half way up the chest area. It's not just one scantily clad woman, it's two, out of three.

Also, I always see people arguing that characters like the Sorceress are sexual fantasies while characters like the Fighter are power fantasies. How does one create a stereotypically attractive male character for fan-service purposes?

Well sexual fantasy and power fantasy don't have to be mutually exclusive; a power fantasy for a man could be a sexual fantasy for a woman and vice versa. It's just that, when people bring up the "men are objectified too" argument in these types of threads, the women tend not to be a woman's power fantasy, while all the male examples (Kratos, Marcus Fenix, Nathan Drake), while sometimes not even sexual fantasies, are definitely power fantasies for men.

well, if the designer decided to only make that one character "sexy" and well-endowed then yeah, people should be able to have a problem but when every facet of the design is similar then they shouldn't be able to complain about just the one character.
An artist has the right and freedom to design something the way he or she wants, it is not the public's right to say he or she can't do that just because they don't agree with it.

The Sorceress design is not super terrible compared to some of the stuff out there, but that second pose? Come on man. Skeleton breast feeding? Conjuring staff between her cheeks? That's not about proportions. That's just overt sexualization. Cut that one of the mix and it would probably be fine more/less.

All I can think of when I look at that sorceress is this:

There's no way anyone could find that sexy.

Fappy:
but the apology about the Facebook incident was much needed. The art style kind of reminds me of the old Conan book covers, but far more exaggerated.

I fail to see why he needed to apologize for that even.

Akalabeth:
The Sorceress design is not super terrible compared to some of the stuff out there, but that second pose? Come on man. Skeleton breast feeding? Conjuring staff between her cheeks? That's not about proportions. That's just overt sexualization. Cut that one of the mix and it would probably be fine more/less.

We're going to get more of this "overt sexualization" card aren't we?

erttheking:

Calamity:
Well Congrats internet, you just made a man apologize for creating the art he wants to create.

I really hate you.

We criticized him because he created something that we didn't like. When someone puts something out for the public to consume, it is open to criticism.

You didn't like it, so he had to apologize?

Lovely Mixture:

Fappy:
but the apology about the Facebook incident was much needed. The art style kind of reminds me of the old Conan book covers, but far more exaggerated.

I fail to see why he needed to apologize for that even.

Akalabeth:
The Sorceress design is not super terrible compared to some of the stuff out there, but that second pose? Come on man. Skeleton breast feeding? Conjuring staff between her cheeks? That's not about proportions. That's just overt sexualization. Cut that one of the mix and it would probably be fine more/less.

We're going to get more of this "overt sexualization" card aren't we?

erttheking:

Calamity:
Well Congrats internet, you just made a man apologize for creating the art he wants to create.

I really hate you.

We criticized him because he created something that we didn't like. When someone puts something out for the public to consume, it is open to criticism.

You didn't like it, so he had to apologize?

Where did I ever say that? I never pointed a gun to the guy's head or demand that he apologize. That was his decision.

To the designer: You dont need to apologize for your art. The people complaining about it are worth less than nothing when it comes to opinions.

Personally I don't like the art, but I am not going to whine at him like some little idiot about it either.

The proportions on the Sorceress don't bother me, even if the poses in those illustrations do. All his designs are like this, it's been the style in at least both Odin Sphere and Muramasa, and there are all kinds of different characters with exaggerated bodies in those. If all of them were like Sorceress, it would be terrible, but they aren't. He's not responsible for variation in designs for videogame characters in general, he's responsible for his own, and he's been good at keeping those varied. And exciting. And memorable. I'm not the biggest fan of his games, but I have a lot of respect for the art direction in them, they stand apart from everything else and you can immediately tell who made them.

Comparing the Fighter to Rob Liefeld drawings in the article really provokes me as an artist, though. Is it because he has a huge chest, like that Captain America drawing? Styles are different. You can't just draw a regular american superhero comic looking character like normal and then expand his chest, you have to change everything around, and this artist certainly does that. I can understand if this kind of style isn't your thing, but comparing him to Liefeld is unreasonable. Not as much as calling him a 14-year old kid for designing one character with colossal breasts and a nonexistant waist, but still, low blow.

I thought it was stylish and unique compared to most fantasy games. Why does everything have to look the same and "realistic" anyway. It is what it is.

As i said in another topic about this issue. These immages in particulary are caricaturs of the standard fantasy char tropes of chainmail bikinis vs. overly broad chested super muscles guys... with tiny tiny lower halfs.

Since when did someone had to apologize about making fun of these tropes by overblowing the "usual" physical traits of the generic male/female fantasy char?

Also unless other games (ME3 ending) this is indeed an artistic choice and not ment in the slightest as sexism... and actually it isnt sexism.

Sexism is the opression of a gender.. i cannot see anyone here being opressed... only bizarly distorted proportions of EVERY char.

This is fucking disgusting. The man has to apologize because people don't like his work? Fuck. That. If you don't like his work, don't look at it, or don't buy the game, that simple...

I agree with whoever said 'that Kotoku, Kotaku, whatever, is just trying to get hits flailing at a game designer.'

And, for fun?
I bet most people who hate the sorceress' design LOVE Jessica Rabbit, who's even more ridiculous. At least Sorc looks like her tits fit her frame (waist non-withstanding.)

Guess I have to apologize to for these kinda raunchy drawings I made during a lecture.

I am sorry women of planet earth.
I am sorry snobbish game journalists.
I am sorry men who didn't get to see them.

I will now commit sepuku for having disgraced myself by drawing these atrocities to humankind.

I mean seriously people? Yes women in gaming are sexualized to an absurd degree. Yes men have it NO WAY near as bad. Yes we should strife to uplift gaming away from that... but can we also do that whilst not all becoming knee jerk apologists for any and all transgressions of not drawing plain neutral characters for both sekses?

We can use a little bit of sexualization once in a while. Life is boring enough without all of our escapism being mandated to be the same as well by "decency" standards.

Look it is fine that you don't like the art style, it is also fine to say it on your own personal blog and on forums when it is mentioned. No one is going to stop you from saying the things you like or don't like. It's called griping and we are all free to do that especially in our own hobbies. I gripe all the fucking time when I play League of Legends and most of the time it is to the actual people that work at Riot.

What isn't fine is when we see people go out of their way to simply be two faced about these subjects. Cause I keep hearing over and over again from people who are offended by the art style in Dragon's Crown that "we are not going to take your games away", yet what is it basically that people want done? They don't want this game to exist at all. Last I checked that is pretty much taking our games away and for what? To satisfy your own personal discomfort because you lack the common sense that instead of actually practicing what you preach and invest or design games that promote the diversity you desire. All that time is spent literally being hostile to people who for years worked so hard utilizing the same style in games like Muramasa and Odin's Sphere(seriously people get their tits in a ringer about the Sorceress but any of the other characters or the artistic style that is nowhere near the bounds of "realism"?).

It is said that it is easier to be destructive than to create. At this rate with this movement and how people want to now give female video game characters actual legal rights equal to flesh and blood people. Something tells me the dreams and tales and style of what people want to share to the world in video games is going to become VERY bland and even more starved of originality.

EDIT: I LOVE the art style in this game because I know IT IS NOT REAL!

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